Are the Browncoats to blame for Serenity's lack of success? by telewill

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Are the Browncoats to blame for Serenity's lack of success?

POSTED BY: TELEWILL
UPDATED: Thursday, November 3, 2005 21:33
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 9808
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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:31 AM

I am sure I am beating a dead horse, but I have something I want to say. Feel free to flame and hurl whatever afterwards, but I think I need to say this and get it done.

I loved Firefly on DVD and was very anxious to see Serenity. I was not able to make it to the early screenings in the summer so I did everything I could to stay away from spoilers until opening night. I told all my friends about the movie. I told people at school and work. My wife and I bought Jayne-Hats and waited in line on 9/30 and then watched the movie. We gathered from what we saw that the lack of Book in almost any trailer (trailers and the Sci-Fi inside looks were the only "spoilers" we allowed ourselves) spelled doom for him. We were hopeful that he was not to be offed, but not surprised when it happened. But when Wash was killed for NO reason other than to prove that the Reavers were "dangerous" (duh) we were stunned. As we walked out we graded the movie "95 out of 100" , "the only thing I did not like was Wash dead". As we talked more and more about it, Wash dominated the discussion. Then we had trouble remembering what we loved about the movie. We started to lower our grade of the movie. As the weekend wore on, we became more and more disappointed that a character was killed off for no reason other than shock value.

Friends asked us what we thought of the movie. We had been telling them for weeks about how much they would love it, now we couldn't recommend it. It was too much of a bummer to think of seeing it again. We had and have no doubt this is the major reason for the plummet in the box office earnings, and the reason the movie failed to generate any significant interest in the public.

We talked recently about the summer screenings. Why weren't the other fans the same way? Why didn't the word get back to TPTB that this was not a good ending. Screenings happen all the time where test audiences show displeasure about an ending (read about the ending of various movies, such as "Sweet Home Alabama") and the producers have it changed. Why didn't the browncoats get this done? How could this not have been seen as a major flaw? I give credit to the fans for getting behind FireFly and making a movie possible, but this ending spells the ruinous end to this franchise.

The box office is so poor (less than $25 million domestic, less than $8 million worldwide with openings being cancelled across the globe) that a sequel is impossible. Movie studios don't spend $40 million in the hopes of making their money back with DVD sales, which is all that will happen if the Serenity DVD sales the same as the Firefly (500,000 copies * $14 dollars = 7 million). There will be no sequel, no new TV series of a movie that failed at the box office based on a TV show cancelled after a few episodes.

This could all have been avoided if the word was put out back to TPTB that the ending needed reworking. There were plenty of people who saw this over the summer in plenty of cities. If they thought the movie was fine as it was, or if they said nothing, they are every bit as much at fault for the failure of Serenity as Joss is.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:35 AM

DONCOAT

More with the negative waves!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:39 AM

STAKETHELURK

A couple of things:

--Maybe the reason the word didn't get back is because the majority of browncoats enjoyed the film and were not overly concerned by the ending? I'm not trying to downplay the feelings of those who were disappointed, but you have to admit that is a very plausable explanation.

--Joss Whedon has done similar things on his other shows. Everytime, disaffected fans have lobbied him to correct it somehow. To paraphrase Joss in an interview: "If I kill someone and people keep saying 'You have to bring that character back, you have to bring that character back,' I know I've killed the right character. If I kill someone and people just shrug, I know I've made a mistake." So, Joss would not bow to fan pressure even if there had been a substantial amount; which I'm guessing there wasn't.

--Check out the thread "A suit's eye view on Serenity and sequels" for the opinions of someone in cost management about the possibility of sequels. Here's a hint: they're optimistic.

In short, the Browncoats weren't to blame and shouldn't blame themselves. I'd say more, but I gotta go.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 7:23 AM

EARLY

**Spoilers**

Well it does suck that you end up not liking a movie that you waited so long for. But don't assume that everyone shares your view. Another thing, when telling friends its not that good of a movie, remember that they haven't seen the show and won't have the emotional attachment to Wash that you do. Lets be honest, his role in Serenity was small. So they won't be as hurt as you, and might even feel like his death was good for the movie.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 7:24 AM

INSANITYLATER

I must admit when I saw Serenity for the first time I was totally shocked at Wash's death.. Book's I saw coming 10 million miles away. I was angry that he would kill off Wash as he was the character I could relate to most personally, and I did have about a thousand scenarios I thought about where he could be brought back, but after seeing the movie for the 4th time I think.. I realized that Wash's death was not without purpose, it gives River the chance to evolve and become part of the crew instead of just cargo. And with River as the pilot it still leaves room for Wash to be sitting right next to her telling her what to do in ghost form that only she can see and argue with. That is if it ever goes any further, which I hope it does.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Serenity NOW!!! ... Insanity later."

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 7:31 AM

BALLAD

Insanity later: I think that is my favorite idea for Wash coming back EVER. Sitting there talking to River, going "Now you need to trim a little-oh, yeah, there ya go" etc. etc.

That said: Everybody's acting like Serenity was this big flop! it wasn't! Just because it wasn't a huge blockbuster doesn't mean it bombed. It was a solid movie that made most of it's money back, sat in the top ten, and has a massive, loving, expandable fan base. The Serenity/Firefly franchise is money in the bank for Universal and whoever grabs hold of it after.

--Ballad

They weren't cows inside. They were waiting to be, but they forgot. Now they see the sky, and they remember what they are.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 7:36 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
A couple of things:

--Maybe the reason the word didn't get back is because the majority of browncoats enjoyed the film and were not overly concerned by the ending? I'm not trying to downplay the feelings of those who were disappointed, but you have to admit that is a very plausable explanation.

Well said!

I don't think for a minute that the "failure" as Telewill put it has a single thing to do w/ the browncoats. I think the reason it hasn't done worse is nearly solely because of efforts of the fans.

I think low #s at the box office have more to do w/ the following points:

- September/October are notoriousl slow for theatre attendance. Look at "Doom" & "North Country". It's not just "Serenity".

- No "big name" actors to draw the celebrity chasers.

- Heavy reliance on viral marketing for promoting the movie.

Quote:
Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
--Joss Whedon has done similar things on his other shows. Everytime, disaffected fans have lobbied him to correct it somehow. To paraphrase Joss in an interview: "If I kill someone and people keep saying 'You have to bring that character back, you have to bring that character back,' I know I've killed the right character. If I kill someone and people just shrug, I know I've made a mistake." So, Joss would not bow to fan pressure even if there had been a substantial amount; which I'm guessing there wasn't.

Exactly! Joss hit it right on the head.

I would not want Joss to feel he has to clear his every move, twist, and character death w/ every single fan before he can move forward w/ the story. It is his 'verse people, we are just visiting. We have every right to love the characters & story, but none to dictate who lives & dies. That is Joss' right alone.

If Joss did bow to the pressure of some of the fanbase & came up w/ some convoluted way to resurrect Wash I think the story would lose something & I think you would find that many would lose faith in Joss' ability to convey the story.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 7:37 AM

HKCAVALIER

Hrm, no. I'm sure test screeners who didn't like the ending made all the noise they could. Joss wanted it to end the way it did. So, why ain't ye blaming Joss for not making the movie that all the browncoats could love? Seems just a little morbid and creepifying, to kill two main characters if you want to jump-start a dead series. People point to Joss and say, "But he had to tell the story as if this is all he'd get to tell; he's always done it this way." And I ask, "Why?" Maybe Joss should learn to adapt to circumstances; maybe he should grow a little optimism about his property. I know he wanted to tell as much of the story as he could, but I'm sure there was plenty of story to tell with out tacking on "oh, and Wash dies" to the end of it. Would Star Wars have been quite as big a hit if Han Solo got blown up along with the Death Star?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 7:43 AM

HKCAVALIER

Quote:
Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
To paraphrase Joss in an interview: "If I kill someone and people keep saying 'You have to bring that character back, you have to bring that character back,' I know I've killed the right character. If I kill someone and people just shrug, I know I've made a mistake."

So by that criterion, judging from the lack of reaction, killing Book was a bad idea. And killing Mr. Universe was unforgivable.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 7:45 AM

UNICORN

Wash's death also served a strong dramatic purpose, as has been discussed elsewhere on these boards; in a nutshell, his death makes even die-hard fans think "Oh God, Oh God, they're all going to die!" and ups the ante on the last 25 minutes of the film tremendously. Joss grabs us by the short hair and asks us what we care about.

And it's not like we aren't warned. When Mal makes his 'Aim to misbehave' speech, he specifically warns his crew that he's going "to be askin' more of you than I have, *maybe all* (emphasis mine)."

That said, I share the grief felt by the poster who started this thread, felt by a good friend of mine who was angered by the ending. It's a bitter pill, no doubt about it. Even if the series came back tomorrow, it would never be the same. But I guess that's what Joss was letting us know, after all. Things can never be the same.

There is no such thing as a weed.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:00 AM

PHOEBE

Quote:
Originally posted by telewill:
This could all have been avoided if the word was put out back to TPTB that the ending needed reworking. There were plenty of people who saw this over the summer in plenty of cities. If they thought the movie was fine as it was, or if they said nothing, they are every bit as much at fault for the failure of Serenity as Joss is.

I find that completely and utterly offensive, and I find it disappointing that we still have browncoats with such a disgraceful attitude among us.

So the fact that *YOU* did not like the ending means that *EVERYONE* hated the ending? Speak for yourself, because I LOVED it. I'm GLAD that what happened happened. I would have been annoyed if what happened DIDNT happen in some form or another. But I would never, EVER, presume to speak for everyone, or assume that my word is god.

Box office failure has nothing to do with the ending of the film. In case you hadn't noticed, people have to go in there in the first place to SEE the ending, it's hardly displayed in the trailers. And the only people who have a problem with the ending are Browncoats who were hoping for a) another episode of Firefly (so don't insult our intelligence by complaining about it since you're getting a MOVIE not another episode) or b) a nice fair tale where everyone lives happily every after despite the fact that by rights there should have been no more than two SURVIVORS let alone DEATHS.

If anything it's browncoats like YOU who are to blame, not Joss (who wrote us this masterpiece), not Universal (who financed the one thing we've all wanted), and not the browncoats (who've worked tirelessly hard, who've poured their heart and soul into it, only to be trodden on and beaten into the ground by your crap and the crap of other ungrateful saps).

I am so sick and tired of whining threads like this

I could handle them before now but trying to blame US is the last straw

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:12 AM

EARLY

Quote:
Originally posted by Phoebe:
Quote:
If anything it's browncoats like YOU who are to blame, not Joss (who wrote us this masterpiece), not Universal (who financed the one thing we've all wanted), and not the browncoats (who've worked tirelessly hard, who've poured their heart and soul into it, only to be trodden on and beaten into the ground by your crap and the crap of other ungrateful saps).

I am so sick and tired of whining threads like this I could handle them before now but trying to blame US is the last straw

Wow...ouch.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:21 AM

PHOEBE

Sorry. I meant that, but I was out of line in how it sounded. I have no issue with people who didn't like it for various reasons (even though I don't understand it, disagree, and don't like the multitude of threads saying the exact same thing repeatedly). I lost my temper though at the implication that we're to blame. That's incredibly, incredibly low.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:29 AM

EARLY

Quote:
Originally posted by Phoebe:
Sorry. I meant that, but I was out of line in how it sounded. I have no issue with people who didn't like it for various reasons (even though I don't understand it, disagree, and don't like the multitude of threads saying the exact same thing repeatedly). I lost my temper though at the implication that we're to blame. That's incredibly, incredibly low.

I understand you were mad, but of course it isn't the browncoats' fault. For one thing your only job as fans is to go buy a ticket...many went above and beyond as if they recieved a paycheck from the Universal marketing department. Good job to all of you by the way. How many movies / TV shows out there have fans so dedicated that they will market the movie too. That says a lot for all of you...browncoats may be small in number but they are big in dedication.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:15 AM

SOUPCATCHER

* Rather than put things in spoiler tags I'll just say right up front that here be spoilers. Read at your own peril if Serenity has not yet come to a country near you. *

telewill, I just wanted to address a couple of things from your post. I'll try to recap what I think you're saying and please let me know if I'm misinterpreting your remarks. Recap: That a certain decision made by Joss Whedon was done simply for shock value; That one decision took what was a great movie for you and turned it into a lousy one; That changing that one plot point would have resulted in a different result at the box office; That fans who saw the movie at pre-screenings should have let Whedon know that that one plot point spelled the difference between success and failure at the box office; Therefore the fans are at fault for the box office performance.

There are plenty of threads on this board devoted to that one particular plot point and shock value. Rather than revisiting what has already been written I'll simply say that I disagree with you and we're probably not going to change each other's opinions on that score.

One thing is clear and that is that you are not alone in feeling that that one particular plot point ruined what was, by your accounts (95 out of 100), an excellent movie. It's not a majority opinion by a long shot but that doesn't make it any less valid. For you, any desire to promote Serenity died when Wash did. Maybe it took you a while to realize that (as recently as last week you were still writing about how much you liked the movie) but it's completely understantable that you can't promote a movie you don't love. This was always a possibility, that people who saw Serenity wouldn't like it (although we tried not to think about it) and we'd lose that portion of the fanbase to further promotion. What is surprising is that, for most of the people who didn't like this movie, it comes down to one event. Fortunately, many of the fans who saw this movie loved it (hated what happens but loved the movie).

I completely disagree that killing Wash was the main reason for the box office results. First off, the box office results to date - twenty-seven days after the movie opened in Australia - have been disappointing to fans who were hoping for an immediate greenlight to the sequel based on the opening weekend numbers (which would've been nice). But, based on the opening weekend numbers, the domestic returns have been absolutely consistent with similar movies. The problem was not that the drop-off was atypical, it was that the opening weekend was lower than expected. The movie actually performed better than similar movies in its second week of US/Canada release. Getting people in the seats for the opening weekend is a marketing problem.

As far as the pre-screenings go, I think you're operating with incomplete information. There were very vocal critics of Wash's death after the first pre-screening. A small minority (anecdotally I'd say it was less than five percent) but definitely present. And, for me, I think they misinterpreted what those screenings were for. They weren't test screenings (where you go for free and provide feedback). They were early viewings as a thank you to fans. The test screenings had already taken place months earlier. As Whedon mentioned in the intro the movie was basically in its final form. So to expect any substantive plot changes after those pre-screenings was unrealistic. That wasn't what they were there for.

To sort of sum up I think blaming the fans is just not cool. And that's any type of blaming. The only thing I would say about the fans is that Universal definitely overestimated how many of us there were and planned their marketing based on bad information. The fans (and by this I'm specifically talking about fans of Serenity - which includes many, but not all, fans of Firefly and some others) are still working hard to make the movie more money. We're in it for the long haul (and we're talking years here). And if it doesn't happen, c'est la vie, at least we'll know that we didn't give up after less than a month.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:07 PM

CHINDI

Nope.. t'weren't the browncoats nor anyone else's "fault". Box office is down across the board.... ppl just stay home to watch movies.

This has affected Serenity and every other movie to come out all year...

Your points are valid for other reasons, but not for affecting BO... that Hollyweird has managed to sabotage all on it's own...

and the way H'Wood markets movies these days is soooo lame and wrong, they have wrecked more films then they helped! Cinderella Man (oscar written all over it) TANKED due to bad marketing.. and maybe who wants to watch a depression onscreen when we are on the verge of one for real.. The Weatherman is being marketed as a comedy.. it is not.. these PR guys don't know nothing and the poor BO is evidence of that..

WHERE was the marketing for Serenity?? talking about a cancelled TV show....uhm.. poor choice of words to the uninitiated.. now- Remind ppl how they felt when they first met Han Solo?? That might have been a bit more enticing..

so again.. the independents aren;t to blame here.. blame that Alliance of uncreative marketers..

Chindi

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:22 PM

MSCKAREN

Phoebe, I agreed with your angry post actually and I'd like to point out to people that they may want to check the profiles on these negative posts.

Anybody else suspicious about the fact that so many negative threads are being started by new members? The Universal board is having the same thing happen. Personally, I think these are a new/improved version of trolls. A bit more articulate than the "Browncoats Suck" version, but just as, if not more, dangerous.

If they are long time Browncoats, why is it just now that they are joining the boards? Just to poison the well for the Browncoats who BELIEVE HARD? By definition, posters who do this are trolls.

On the other hand, I'm so proud to be part of a community who's first response is to try to be supportive. I just hope your good nature is not being taking advantage of.

As I surf IMDB, the UB and come back here as my haven, I'm seeing the same phenomenon repeated over and over. So I'm starting to get a little Mallish attitude:

"...I hear one word out of any of you that ain't helping me out or taking your leave I will shoot you." ...or consider you a troll...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've cancelled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."
http://karenallover.blogspot.com/

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:26 PM

CHINDI

So I'm starting to get a little Mallish attitude:

"...I hear one word out of any of you that ain't helping me out or taking your leave I will shoot you." ...or consider you a troll...

LMAO

Loved it...

chindi

trying on the troll hat.. nah, doesn't fit..

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:11 PM

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Quote:
Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
Joss Whedon has done similar things on his other shows. Everytime, disaffected fans have lobbied him to correct it somehow. To paraphrase Joss in an interview: "If I kill someone and people keep saying 'You have to bring that character back, you have to bring that character back,' I know I've killed the right character. If I kill someone and people just shrug, I know I've made a mistake." So, Joss would not bow to fan pressure even if there had been a substantial amount; which I'm guessing there wasn't.

I've got to say, if that's the criterion Joss uses, then every character in Serenity besides the poor dude Mal pushed off the mule should be alive today. The reason the BDM disappointed me was that I didn't care, not that it broke my heart. For me, that makes those deaths less than meaningless. That most people feel differently means Joss, by his criterion, has done right by most of his fans. So you of that bunch, be happy, you got your shiny movie. I'm going to go back and cry over the River Tam sessions. Those were good: those broke my heart.

So while for me the viral marketing was better than the marketed product, the majority of you seem to be satisfied. Yes, it is the Browncoats fault..for getting the movie most of them wanted.

So I'm sorry, Telewill, that you too were dissatisfied, but the Browncoats brought this movie into being and gave it the success it does have. If the whole world were delirious about it, then it would be a smashing success. Those of us who like it less are seeing it less, and giving less to the box office. We are the reason it is less successful --as is anyone who doesn't like scifi, only watches Julia Roberts films, doesn't see movies in theaters, etc. The people who actually see it are responsible for what goes right, not what goes wrong.

---------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:47 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by msckaren:
Anybody else suspicious about the fact that so many negative threads are being started by new members? The Universal board is having the same thing happen. Personally, I think these are a new/improved version of trolls. A bit more articulate than the "Browncoats Suck" version, but just as, if not more, dangerous.

If they are long time Browncoats, why is it just now that they are joining the boards? Just to poison the well for the Browncoats who BELIEVE HARD? By definition, posters who do this are trolls.

Because maybe some of them feel there's just a little bit too much apologism and denial going around and they felt the need to get vocal ?

It's always easier to find your voice in anger and dismay, and it's often hard to find something new and interesting to say other than "me too"..

Likely, yes, a certain percentage of em are trolls, sure, but also a good bunch of them are likely long-time lurkers who feel suddenly crapped on and felt the need to vent.

And I say let em, I don't see none of them forcing their opinions down on folk, the way some browncoats have taken up the gauntlet as of late.

Civilized folk can agree to disagree, and we're civilized folk... ain't we ?

I can sympathise with that "crapped on and need to vent" thing, but HKCav and a few others did a wonderful job of venting in an extremely civilized fashion in another thread, so i'm all done boilin over myself... but yeah, I understand the feeling.

If they wanna vent, let em vent, nobody's forcin ya to agree with em, and on top of that, when a fandom can no longer take constructive criticism, or any criticism, it becomes something ugly....

We don't wanna be ugly, do we ?

Just some thoughts.

-Frem

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:33 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by telewill:
Why didn't the word get back to TPTB that this was not a good ending.

Some fans tried.

After the very first screening, one fan started this website: www.savewash.com . Scroll down to the bottom.

Quote:
Please, Joss, reconsider your decision to kill Wash. You have almost five months before the movie will be released to the world. You have time to fix this.

Obviously, it didn't work.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:02 PM

IWASAFRYCOOK

I think the best part about the series, though, was that people did get hurt. The bad guys weren’t gunned down with impunity; they got their share of bullets into Mal and his crew. Mal gets: stabbed, shot (multiple times), punched, electrocuted and tortured. Re-watching the series, it seems that in almost every episode, Mal gets hurt, most of the time badly. Firefly, to me, was the solution to Star Wars Syndrome, a condition where the storm troopers seem to have a magnetic draw to lasers and the good guys seem to be wearing shields.

Losing an important member of the crew in the big, apocalyptic battle was very important to be (although not very pleasant). If all eight of them had escaped alive, that wouldn’t be very realistic in the Firefly sense. Little battles = little injuries, big battles = death. I’m just glad everyone else survived.

Just so you don’t think I’m a Reaver, life without Wash isn’t the same. I have to bring tissues to even watch the show sometimes, because I look at him and go, “Oh my God, you’re so ALIVE, I can’t believe you’re going to die” and then he’ll say something cute and I’ll get worse. One of my friends who I brought to see the movie watches the series now and tells me she gets so sad whenever she sees Wash.

RIP Wash, I'll miss you.

"I don't murder children"
"And as you can see, I do."

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:24 PM

BJAY

When i finaly got to go see the movie i wasnt surprised that they killed Book and Wash. Joss mayed a realistic future world and in real life, shit happens. Not everyone makes it alive in life and Joss knew it, so he decided to put that realistic touch to it. They fly threw a shit load of ships blasting the crap out of each other and they made it threw, well that was unexpected another corny ass movie where everyone makes it alive. But then wham! Wash gets a huge spear threw his chest. OH, these guys are actually gunna die. I think Joss made the right move and im confident that he did. When i was leaving the theater i remember hearing a older guy (i knew he had never seen firefly say) that was a good movie, and he was right. Just because your favourite character dies doesnt mean that Serenity is going to turn out to be the next Geli.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:34 PM

MIRAMEL

i gotta say, i tend to agree w/ MSCKAREN and pheobe. far as im concerned, we got serenity made, and if we keep trying, we'll get a sequal/continuation, sooner or later. way i see it, as long as joss and all 9 of the ACTORS are alive, theres plenty of hope to see all nine of them again.
so lets keep hoping and fighting

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:22 PM

RIVER6213

Serenity was a good movie, but I wouldnt exactly call it a masterpiece.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:37 PM

RIVER6213

After the shock of Wash's death, and later, after Zoe went down, and Simon got shot and Kaylee got poison-darted, I was sure that this was it! They were all gonna die!

But River saved the day, and the show ended well. it wasnt a masterpiece of a show, but it was a good show.

It did leave open possibilities for River's position aboard the ship; she seemed not to be crazy anymore, and I think she could serve to be the ships pilot. A pyschic pilot is the best pilot if you ask me.

Also, it does leave an opening for two more new crew people that just might fit right on in there with our Serenity crew; thats a good thought.

If they won't make us a new movie, or give us another, new tv series, then I will settle for a whole bunch of novels.

Star trek has about a billion novels written for their universe by a whole bunch of talented writers, so does Star Wars, so why not Firefly?

I did some searching and so far the only books I found for firefly was Serenity the movie novel....whats up with that???? FF's been out since 2002 and no ones written any novels??????
Some fans you are.

You all better be glad I'm really not River

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:57 PM

NOSADSEVEN

Quote:
Originally posted by telewill:
There were plenty of people who saw this over the summer in plenty of cities. If they thought the movie was fine as it was, or if they said nothing, they are every bit as much at fault for the failure of Serenity as Joss is.

Anyone else find this amusing in light of Joss's recorded introduction to the Advance Screenings?

Quote:
Highlights from Joss's message to the Browncoats:
[...]

It is, in an unprecedented sense, your movie...which means, if it sucks, it's your fault.

[...]

If this movie matters to you, let somebody know. Let everybody know. Make yourselves heard. If you don't like the movie, this is a time for quiet, silent contemplation.

[...]

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:24 PM

THECRAZYIVAN

man, people are so shallow!

its all like "Wash died...boo hoo...movie sucked"

Movie was great, ive done my part in getting that big damn sequal...

This board used to be optimistic, happy, hopeful.
Now its sad and negative....

BE HAPPY!! WEVE COME SO FAR!

~~~~~~~~~~
"There is a sense that this is still not over. It's hard to put a finger on what's so special about this project and about this group of people, but it's just one of those things you have to trust in, and relish. I am very, very proud."
---Jewel Staite on "Firefly" and "Serenity" in "Finding Serenity" (essay collection by Jane Espenson)

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:30 PM

LISSA

until this point i have avoided writing responses to topics such as these, because they would just be angry. now, i am just going to say that those of you who are "blaming" joss for the death of wash (HIS character) are just the same as those who called him a lesbian hater when tara died. also, you wouldn't have lasted a season watching buffy.

~lissa, retired spwhore

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:54 PM

RIVER6213

LOL!!! Did they really say that? LOL!!!

You guyz are so funny!

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:18 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD

Yeah and Boromir's death at the end of the Fellowship of the Ring was pointless and ruined the book, the Terminator's death at the end of T2 was pointless and ruined the movie, Tom Hank's death at the end of Saving Private Ryan was pointless and totally ruined the movie, blah blah blah blahdy blah blah.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Sunday, October 30, 2005 11:42 PM

MISSKITTEN

I think we've pretty much covered that this thread contains spoilers, but I'm putting up a notice anyway.

I don't live in a country where Serenity has premiered. I couldn't afford going to the con and get the pre-screening in the UK, cause I had booked for another convention. Fortuntly luck smiled at me, when my town, Bergen that arranges Bergen International Film Festival every year got permission to pre-screen the movie last week I was really calling myself the happiest fan.

In my eyes there's no failure in this movie. And it really bugs me that no matter the results at the screenings in my home country, it won't even show up on radar. Those three screenings, which was all we got was PACKED, people were pilgrimming to see it. Seriously. I was a volunteer at the festival and volunteers always gets free access to all movies, but this one just couldn't allow it, too many people wanted to see it. Despite not having much money when they aired it, I bought tickets to all 3 screenings, I *had* to. For a long time I've called Lord of the Rings my favourite movie, but now I have to reconcider my answer.

We had major applause, first after Joss' message, then after the movie. People loved it, they rambled on about it long after they were out of the cinema. Yes we mourned for Wash, but to say that his death didn't have a purpose is just silly.

Yes it was to give us a scare. Joss knows where to get to us, he takes out the heart of the group. Like when Xander got his eye poked out, then he KILLED Fred slowly and painfully. If he hadn't killed Wash the following sequences wouldn't be the same, I'm not saying they would be bad, but we wouldn't sit stunned in fear, waiting for what's next. It was a message to us that nobody's safe. And for a long while he even makes us believe that he might possibly kill off every single character. Joss got us in the palm of his hand. That's one good reason for why offing Wash, the second, which I think is even more importantly is the final sceene of the movie, with River flying Serenity. Wash's death served the purpose of giving River a real place on the ship.

Now what I want to see happenings:

#1. To see certain people STOP complaining. Seriously if you think about it, this movie should never have been happening. I mean it's spawned from a TV show that despite being straight up AMAZING was cancelled after merely 14 episodes! Yet we GOT our movie and if people can just stop spreading those negative vibes and wait to see happening with the DVD sales, they will SKYROCKET, Universal will get their money's worth and hopefully greenlight the two other movies that the cast has signed up for.

#2. To see the sequel being greenlighted. I seriously want to see Jewel's wish for Kaylee happening :P

*~*~*

"Joss, if you kill him now I'll stuff a compression coil up your ass sideways!"
~ Kaylee, "Serenity in 2000 words or less"

Kaylee's the perfect woman!

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Monday, October 31, 2005 10:43 AM

SERENITY5

Hey I just joined found this site looking for Firefly Theme, well i liked Wash but he died for a greater purpose. Zoe became Miss Devil Incarnated because she was fuming over Washes death, so she needed revenge ect. I liked the film it tied everything up explaining about how the reavers came ect

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Monday, October 31, 2005 8:09 PM

PHATCORNS

Oh my god, I hate you. Would you please use a spoiler warning next time. You have ruined it for me...

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Monday, October 31, 2005 10:00 PM

SERENITY5

Sorry did not know how, i'll keep that in mind for next time.

Also why are you going here their spoilers everywhere in this topic its about the end of Serenity

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Tuesday, November 1, 2005 3:09 PM

EMPTY

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
After the shock of Wash's death, and later, after Zoe went down, and Simon got shot and Kaylee got poison-darted, I was sure that this was it! They were all gonna die!

But River saved the day, and the show ended well. it wasnt a masterpiece of a show, but it was a good show.

It did leave open possibilities for River's position aboard the ship; she seemed not to be crazy anymore, and I think she could serve to be the ships pilot. A pyschic pilot is the best pilot if you ask me.

Also, it does leave an opening for two more new crew people that just might fit right on in there with our Serenity crew; thats a good thought.

If they won't make us a new movie, or give us another, new tv series, then I will settle for a whole bunch of novels.

Star trek has about a billion novels written for their universe by a whole bunch of talented writers, so does Star Wars, so why not Firefly?

I did some searching and so far the only books I found for firefly was Serenity the movie novel....whats up with that???? FF's been out since 2002 and no ones written any novels??????
Some fans you are.

You all better be glad I'm really not River

Heya riv...once again with the good information
im of the same view on the novels idea, even though i would prefer a straight up series (not a movie). i think if the seres had continued that noone would've died...which..even though seeming good, is slightly worn, i mean its abit of a cliche and when you think about it, on a ship that dabbles in crime and has an overly developed sense of morality theres gonna be alot of deaths, you cant believe these people dont die EVER, even though its what we've come to expect of todays TV. i think the movie opened up a new kinda story, one where characters die as unpredictably as they would in a real (or equivalent) life situation, it makes it seem darker, and the show has always had very big reminders that the verse is a big dark place (objects in space screams of this) i think this served to show that when the going got tough- situational sarcasm and tight pants wouldn't always cut it.

but i honestly think that joss kinda thought the movie would totally bomb (which it hasn't) and that he might as well end with a big evil (spoiler)

Select to view spoiler:

spike through the chest

(spoiler end)ending just to give some level of closure to the loving fans...and himself.

I still believe that firefly hasn't ended, i think it will live on...it might take time and effort, mainly from us, but itll be right as rain and shiny as the back side of a an alliance cruiser soon enuff...and us the long suffering fanbase will live in a happy world of drooling over the psychic dancer and debating over the sexuality of the tight ass doctor

aren't i just an upbeat bunny

Haken needs a new development system. Donate.
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Tuesday, November 1, 2005 6:33 PM

PHATCORNS

Quote:
Originally posted by Serenity5:
Sorry did not know how, i'll keep that in mind for next time.

Also why are you going here their spoilers everywhere in this topic its about the end of Serenity

Sorry about that, I didn't mean you, I meant the thread starter. He did not warn me about spoilers in the topic or his message and I started reading and on the second or third sentence he hit me with the biggest possible spoilers imaginable.

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Tuesday, November 1, 2005 9:19 PM

RIVER6213

Posted by EMPTY

Quote:

I still believe that firefly hasn't ended, i think it will live on...it might take time and effort, mainly from us, but itll be right as rain and shiny as the back side of a an alliance cruiser soon enuff...and us the long suffering fanbase will live in a happy world of drooling over the psychic dancer and debating over the sexuality of the tight ass doctor

aren't i just an upbeat bunny
-----------------------------------------------------

Yes you are the upbeat bunny, and I thank you for it!!!!

I really hope the big boys at FOX or Universal eventually come to realize that Firefly is good business, and just suck it up and gives us what we want, and what we want is another series, and if we can't have that, another movie, and if we can't have that, then the writers have to step up to the plate, and start pumping out novels.

I swear, since 2002 there should have been at least 15 novels out; what happened people? Were you original Browncoats so bummed out about the cancellation of Firefly, that you all made like Miranda and just laid down and never got up?

Another thing. Why is there no Soundtrack for Firefly's theme song in the soundtrack section at any of the music stores I go to, or how about when I do a search on itunes, how come I can't find any music for Firefly or Serenity to download? This is a problem.

In the 60s, the original Star trek pumped out 55 episodes and then gets cancelled. The fans freaked, and within 2 years there were a billion Star trek books on the shelves at book stores, a zillion reruns of ST was on the boob-tube, plus ST toys were on the shelves at stores, plus a billion idiots running around wearing Star trek uniforms, and this nonsense went on until 1979 when they finally brought out Star Trek the Motion picture, which was not very good, but the fans ate it up anyway.

I guess my point to this mini-rant is, what did those crazed Star Trek fans do that we are not doing?????

I'm actually sorry now that I boycotted television in 2001 and didnt bother to turn it on until 2005, because if I had been there, in the beginning to watch Firefly, and then have it cancelled all of a sudden, I would have declared the mother of all holy wars against fox; I would have been the ultimate Browncoat, and Fox would have put FF back on just to shut me up.

Anyway, sorry for the rant....I just got mad all of a sudden.

I'm going to bed, this is all so depressing.

River steps away from the table...

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Tuesday, November 1, 2005 9:41 PM

FERREX

For me, the loss of Wash was devastating. Like losing an old friend. It also increased the believability of the BDM for me. Nobody was safe, not even 'The Funny Guy'. It did not detract from the movie. Rather, it intensified the ending. If they could kill Wash, who was next? Where they all going to die? Oh my God! THEY"RE ALL GOING TO RUTTIN' DIE! That was my worry, that more and more of them were going to bite the bullet. There was uncertainty when River was locked in the room with the reavers, actual uncertainty. (Granted, I may be incredibly stupid and gullible, but it worked).

Watch the movie for FUN, not to critique it. They pay purple bellies for that, and this time, they got it the hump right.

Jayne, your mouth is talking. You might want to look to that.

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Wednesday, November 2, 2005 8:50 AM

KURYA

Hey RiverR6213,
this is totally off topic, Im responding to 2 things you have said in your posts...
................you said ...................
Another thing. Why is there no Soundtrack for Firefly's theme song in the soundtrack section at any of the music stores I go to, or how about when I do a search on itunes, how come I can't find any music for Firefly or Serenity to download? This is a problem.
..........................................

I have been having sooo much trouble getting Serenity soundtrack looking store after store, I just ordered it off amazon.ca, sooo I suggest that the online store is the place to go to get Serenity Soundtrack. In terms of firefly, its coming out November 15th(again look at the online store like amazon.com), I plan to order it online msyelf because I doubt I will be able to find it in stores, but ask your local store if they can order it or something, just give them an isbn number I think.

and...
................you said ...................
I swear, since 2002 there should have been at least 15 novels out; what happened people? Were you original Browncoats so bummed out about the cancellation of Firefly, that you all made like Miranda and just laid down and never got up?
.............................................

There are novels coming out I think. Listen to the Keith R decandido interview on "the signal" podcast episode #13. At the 55 minute mark abouts, he talks about how Pocket books got rights to publish 2 more original novels in the verse, besides just Serenity. So keep a look out.

Prakash

For shindigs in Montreal join:
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/montrealbrowncoats/

Canadian? join:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/canadianbrowncoats/

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Wednesday, November 2, 2005 10:13 AM

RIVER6213

God bless you for sharing that!!!!
Finally!!!!

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Wednesday, November 2, 2005 11:52 AM

SPACED

it was very sad that Wash died but I think its abit harsh down grading the whole movie so much The story was good and it went into a few things that they never got the chance to in the series I thought film great and i will definatley be buying it on DVD

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Thursday, November 3, 2005 9:33 PM

JASONZZZ

where's phatcorn from?

Sweden?

Like Fireflyfans.net?
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