Why Cancelled? A Confession... by Stardude

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Why Cancelled? A Confession...

POSTED BY: STARDUDE
UPDATED: Friday, November 4, 2005 06:47
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4066
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Thursday, November 3, 2005 5:45 PM

Before I get to my lengthy point for posting, I'd like to explain that I am a VERY recent fan, a newb, to the Firefly Universe.
I have just this week watched all 14 episodes (cause I got a damn good deal at my local DVD store - $29.99 Canadian - that's right, you do the math. ;-)

Had it not been for the movie Serenity I would never have given the series a chance.

Truth be told I had seen only a few minutes of each of the FF episodes on TV and was quickly turned off by what I thought was a sad attempt at trying to mesh two anachronistic generes. I didn't even watch the episodes right the way through to give them the chance I would later realize, to my chagrin, they deserved.

I had never heard of Joss Whedon and had never watched any of his previous creations.

I went to see Serenity because I am a die-hard Sci-Fi fan and am desperate for some quality Sci-Fi entertainment. I didn't expect much when I went in the theatre and I was kindof not looking forward to the 'western-twist' this show seemed to like dwelling on.

Boy was I surprised. I not only liked the film but I bought the DVD's because of it, and I wanted to learn more about this universe Joss had created.

In short I went into shock just recently at how beautifully crafted and elegantly written the stories were, the characters, having depth and individual breadth, better than any I've seen in TV shows in years.

I thought, "What have I been missing all this time?"

-------------------------------------------------

Now...

Why did that happen? Aside from my dismissive, critical attitude toward my first few minutes of exposure to FF, what lay at the root of my prejudice attitude toward this wonderfull show?

And are there others, I must wonder, that also feel the same way and have been 'turned' to see the light, as it were?

I have a pet theory about the fickle quality of audiences when they have a 'new' type of cuisine placed in front of them.

Hear me out.

Firstly, I'm not a big western fan. In fact I can count the number of westerns I like on one hand.
Westerns tend to conjure up, for me at least, not very many positive aspects of that uniquely U.S. part of America's history. There is much that is questionable about that history, the politics, the events in general that are very... well, questionable.
Next. When I think of the Old West, I think of the Southern states of the U.S. Particularily Texas.
I also think of Bush and Reagan. And I think of Guns. And I think of how much America is not well liked or appreciated for their fight to preserve their rights and freedoms, especially in other parts and countries of the world.

I think of all the above and more when I think of the western genre. The histroy for me reveals what is to come.

Is it possible that others (potential fans) think the same way?

Now, let's mix in some futurist vision of Sci-Fi, spacecraft, other worlds, colonies, etc, along with this western BBQ.

Now the overall impression seems to be tainted and provoked by an insinuation (the smell) that America will populate the stars of our galaxy with a society of humans for which not much has changed since the days of the western frontier. The U.S. has won, to everyone's detriment - and they're still playing with guns.

Believe it or not I was thinking about all this while watching those first few pivotal minutes of FF. No wonder I was turned off. But then I am Canadian. Nationalistic stereotypes are just as damaging as personal ones, so it seems.
And I can't believe I might be the only one with that misguided prejudice in mind.

(Thinking of Captain Reynold's past I can't help but laugh at the irony of it all!)

And that maybe this idea - this prejudice - might be short-circuiting any kind of chance a TV saturated (and therefore stereotype saturated) audience might give half a chance of open-mindedness to yet another Sci-Fi space flick.

Because the truth is, the Firefly Universe is anything but that - the opposite in fact, of what I thought it was. Joss is a subtle craftsmen whose writing I've come to appreciate. He knows his history and he understands what the historical subtext is and what it MEANT and what it was REALLY all about. This all shines through in FF with a refreshing zeal and realism. (Which ironically enough is what both Sci Fi and the Western needs to keep it's now sophisticated and intelligent audiences watching and attentive)

Someone in some post somewhere said that it's what Joss doesn't say that is most important in FF. Ain't it the truth. I am consistently asking questions as I watch each episode, like:
How did humanity get this way?
Why is everyone living, behaving, talking, like they are living in the old west?
How is this at all plausible, and what does it mean happened to humnity in this alternate future?
What happened to Technology as we know it today?
What happened to Earth?

And all the possibilities I think of lead me to some really intriguing possible conclusions. The firefly universe is far more likely given what we know about science, technology, capitalism and politics and where we 'think' we are headed.

The FF universe sure beats the Star Trek universe in terms of plausibility. Perhaps it challenges most other alternate futures, in popular Sci-Fi as well. The only other alternate future I can say impressed me to believeing it's potential for being real was the Blade Runner universe, which oddly fits with FF, I think, like a glove.

Television has come a long way - thanks Joss.

Now, having said all that...

My main suspicions and questions then are:

The show needs more exposure. Fox has seen to that by making the series so damn cheap and affordable - smart move. The movie was an excellent chance to expose those who didn't watch the TV show for whatever reason to the story and it's characters.

But how do you get past the negative associations that are, in my mind anyway, embedded into those genre's? Or are they? Is it all in my head alone?

I don't think so, and only because when I ask around my circle of friends, most haven't watched the show and those who have, like myself, given a few minutes of their time to it, have said they were 'put off' by the westernness of it.

And I keep telling them, "If you'd just sit still and watch the damn thing long enough you might notice that the writing is excellent and the characters and production values are top notch, and damn it, IT'S A BLOODY GOOD YARN!!

"(and it pays attention to the laws of physics in space, damn it!)"

" yeah, but it's so... western..."

"WELL, GET OVER IT!!

*as I stick my gun back in my holster and walk away*

"We all live and die alone."

Capt. M. Reynolds

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Thursday, November 3, 2005 6:02 PM

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

I too could count the number of westerns I like on the fingers of one hand ...after that hand had a close encounter with a threshing machine.

But I took to Firefly immediately. I saw it in the right order, and expected goodness from Joss Whedon. I can, however, relate to your experience when it comes to being introduced to my first Joss Whedon show, which I only discovered a little over a year ago, long after it had been off the air. When I first heard about it in 6th grade, I thought "Vampire Slayer"? "Buffy"?, and was sure it was everything I could despise.

Joss Whedon has this crazy way of choosing supposedly "bad" genres, and making them work. If you don't know Joss, and do know the genre, it's not surprising so many people never figure it out. But it's a damn shame.

---------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

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Thursday, November 3, 2005 6:12 PM

THESENTINEL

Really awesome essay on this subject in the Finding Serenity book...you can find it on Amazon or at any major bookstore. Main point was that westerns and sci-fi (space-based) have not done very well on TV in recent years (major network standards) and Firefly combined both...a lot of stigma right out of the gate. A lot could have been eliminated with better promotion skills.

I too am not a Buffy or Angel fan...Have not enjoyed the episodes I have seen at all! However I am a HUGE Firefly fan and loved Whedon's work on Astonishing X-Men! Great comic run for him.

Check the book out.

Adam

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Thursday, November 3, 2005 6:40 PM

RIVER6213

I despise westerns, but I like Firefly.

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Thursday, November 3, 2005 8:01 PM

RIVER6213

I was thinking about something today.

When I was a child I hated westerns, I hated them with all my heart, and when I 1st started
watching the Firefly series, I, for a very short bit,thought it was some sort of space-western.

American western movies are so fictional, they never really showed the real west like it was,
and it was a very ugly picture.

Television shows like Bonanza, The Virginians, Gunsmoke, Little House on the prairie, and The Wild, wild West, and all of those stupid John Wayne movies put a happy and noble face on the old west, but was not what the west was all about. A REAL western movie would be a pretty scary thing to watch.

Rod Serling, the creator of The Twilight Zone, was commisioned in the 60s to write and produce
a cowboy western for daytime tv, and because he did Twilight Zone so well, the networks let him
do what he wanted, and no one was checking out his work, so, Mr Serling decided to give America
a REAL western movie.

Rod Serling's western was scary and disturbing. There was none of that hop-along cassidy stuff, this show was cold, dark and was full of nothing but murder; lynching, beating, murdering blacks people, genocidal activities against the indians, child rape, female slavery, and a whole lot of greedy and selfish people looking out for their own ends; the west was drowning in blood and there were no wholesome periods in it to be found anywhere. Needless to say, once the networks got wind of what Serling was up to, they allowed only 2 episodes because it scared the hell out of America, and they cancelled the show and no one protested at all, matter of fact, everyone was relieved that this grim reminder of America's past was gone from the air.

Joss gave us the "soft" view of the Firefly universe, but in reality, the FF universe is
actually a very scary place, and Joss could only hint at some of its true terrors, I mean, let's

look at the Reavers. We only heard about what the Reavers do to people they catch, but we've never SEEN what they do. We never seen them catch up with a ship, shoot their way aboard and then start to rape the crew, (while that crew is screaming for their lives) and eat there flesh and sew the human flesh into there clothes, but we've heard of it.

The impact of a scene like that if shown fully, would have ended the FF series after episode 1
and Kaylee's cuteness would have never been enough for us to forget the Reavers scene; people wouldnt be able to handle that, so Joss fixes it so that there is a lot of referencing going on in the movie and series...a lot of hinting, but we really don't get to see the true ugliness of the FF universe.

Think about the human history of The-Earth-That-Was, and how we populated the Earth. Think about all the different era's we've gone through to get to the present. Think of all the advancements of science, think about all the infamous parts of history where man's cruelty is
demonstrated over and over again, where millions are enslaved, or suffer. Think about the
millions that died from wars over ideaology, terroritory, resources, religious persecutions, and even race; the horror which is humanity.

Not counting Antarctica, all the other continents were fought over and millions died in the process; all the other continents are dripping in blood, and genocide.

The intro to the movie Serenity summed it up: The earth resources got used up and humanity
left for the stars, but it also failed to mention that they did this after a horrific war where the only people left standing were the American's and the Chinese.

Now think about the Firefly universe with humanity spread around on hundreds of planets and
moons, and each of the worlds are at a different level of development; for the human race, this
is a reciepe for future unpleasentness; it is an arena where we seriously get to learn that
humans rarely learn from history and it must be repeated over and over again.

Remember that episode of Firefly where River was going to get burned at the stake for being a witch? I rest my case. Those people had been so much out of touch with the "cortex" of
humanity, that they slipped back into a wild, superstitous state of mind; they might as well
have been back in the 14th, or 16th century of The-Earth-That-Was. And slavery? In FF we are
given hints that slavery exist, but we arent given a picture, and there are more than 1 kind of
slavery, so I guess its safe to say that a whole lot of people are being made to be miserble in
the FF universe.

I'm certain that the "verse contains its blade-Runner worlds, its"nazi" moons, its, asians empires, and its anglo- emporiums. I'm sure there are planet and moons where its alright to have a 7 year old wife, or have as many wives as you want, or a world where you can kill your wife if you are bored with her. I'm sure that there are religious planets where if you come there and you are the wrong religion, they kill you.

Zoe made reference to littering on Ariel, and I think you get the firing squad for that. I am also sure that there are worlds where you wouldnt be able to tell them apart from the Ming dynasty back on the old Earth-That-Was.

The Alliance war with the independents is interesting because we are told that the independents are fighting to keep their worlds, "their world" and they didnt want the Alliance "meddling" with their way of life. Sounds noble right? But what if these people, on their world thought enslaving other people was a good thing? What if these people believed woman should be nothing more than servants, or just breeders. What about cultures who believe that women should have their tongues removed after the age of 7, or cultures who believe that having sex with a 5 year old is a good thing? The right to decide that sort of thing, and their way of life is what the Independents were fighting for.

This is a hard one because everyone wants to be free, but there are others who feel its there right to OWN other people, and you will find cultures on this world who still have that state of mind and if they could get away with it, they would have slavery.

Just a thought

The fireFly universe really is no laughing matter, and for a crew of people to go wandering about on a Firefly transport, trading, stealing and hauling cargo, well, they must be some brave people, because that universe is full of horrors.

The fact that the Alliance government was experimenting with River and other children is small potatoes compared with whats going on out in the 'verse. Mal better thank his lucky stars that River is on his ship because having a pyschic aboard seriously gives Mal and his crew the edge in a unstable universe.

I guess my point to this mini-rant is that the Firefly universe was presented to us in the same "soft" fashion that American western shows was presented to the American people, and the world in the 50s, 60s, and 70s; they left most of the horror out, Joss balanced that with focusing on character development, which is why we like the Firefly crew so much; most science fiction movies focus on the "worlds" or special effects, so we notice it more than the characters.

Just a thought.

Sorry for hogging up bandspace.

Why are you staring at me?

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Thursday, November 3, 2005 8:25 PM

AMYLISAI

Thank you River___ and StarDude for your well thought-out and insightful commentaries. I appreciate the time that so many people put into thinking about this show we love. I don't really have anything to say except thanks to you both and welcome, StarDude, welcome indeed.

Amylisai, Crazy Sister of Destiny Flying

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Thursday, November 3, 2005 8:57 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD

The fact that the advertisements really really sucked, “girl in box,” the hell were they thinking, and the fact that they aired the episodes out of order had a lot more to do with the cancellation than dismissive viewers. Plus people have no foresight, favoring short term quarterly gains over long term growth. That’s why reality shows are so popular. They’re sensationalist, visceral, able to engage people’s senses and give them instant gratification, that’s why the majority of reality shows slip so much in the ratings and get canceled after a few seasons. Well thought out shows with actual plots and character development gives delayed gratification, you need to be patient, and wait for the story to unravel, that’s why shows with intricate plots like the X-Files begin with low ratings but gradually gains a much wider audience. Of course this is a very simplistic analysis, there are shows that give both instant and delayed gratification like 24, lots of good stuff happen in every episode that catches the senses, but it also has an interesting story that develops over time.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Thursday, November 3, 2005 9:22 PM

JASONZZZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Stardude:
Befo...

The FF universe sure beats the Star Trek universe in terms of plausibility. ...

But depressing as all hell though...

Like Fireflyfans.net?
Haken needs new equipment to keep the site shiny. Donate.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=5&t=3283
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=13317#185514

Given the freedom to do so, anarchy will result in an organic organization unto itself.

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Friday, November 4, 2005 12:34 AM

DONCOAT

Welcome, Stardude. Very nice post (was it your first here?)

We all share your angst at Firefly's lack of mass success. We're right and they're wrong (or just clueless), so why can't they all see that?

I'd like to respond to your comments about Westerns. Like any genre, movies and TV series about the Old West had a high crap-to-quality ratio. For every "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" there were a hundred cheap B movies. It's somewhat unfair to damn an entire genre without at least considering the very best it offers.

I'd also like to point out that it's somewhat unfair for a Canadian to extend an accusing finger at the US on issues like Western expansion. Canadians did their share of genocide and racist treatment of their native populations. Water under the bridge now, of course, except for the descendants of those whose lands we grabbed.

One way I've explained the so-called "western" aspects of the show to newbies is to point out that it's not so much a Western as it is about a frontier. You find the same themes anywhere that humans are trying to survive in a hostile environment. That perspective seems to help some people understand the 'verse.

As to technology, my take is this: technology is now, and has always been, a tool used by those who can afford it. In one sense, it widens the division between rich and poor. (In another sense it acts as a rising tide that lifts all boats, which is why our quality of life is rather better than that of, say, a medieval serf.) So why shouldn't we see the same thing in a future setting? The wealthy core worlds have castles in the air (literally!) while the wretched settlers out on the edge ride horses and try to scrape by.

It might have been interesting to see whether worlds like Ariel have an oppressed underclass. Oh, the stories we never saw!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

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Friday, November 4, 2005 3:05 AM

EMBERS

Welcome Stardude!
Yeah, our fandom is growing slowly but surely...
and it will continue to grow.

Latest numbers from Box Office Mojo:
domestic: $33,880,000
foreign: 9,971,849

TOTAL BOX:$43,851,849 which is starting to move the BDM to profit country and it is STILL in 306 movie theaters...which isn't nothing...

plus it has been sold to USA cable for $3 million (to air in 2008 - I wish it would be sooner:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14016)

more than you wanted to know, right?

Point is that eventually we WILL get our sequel,
in the mean time check out my signiture where I give links to the amazing River Tam Academy Interview Sessions (since you didn't know Joss Whedon you may no recognize the back of his head...)
AND be sure to get the comic books!

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse,
and have you joined the Browncoats yet?
http://browncoats.serenitymovie.com/serenity/?fuseaction=tools.invlink
&u=embers&linkID=36

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Friday, November 4, 2005 3:44 AM

CORNCOBB

I never liked westerns before I watched Firefly. And, to be honest, I don't think I would have given Firefly the chance it obviously deserved if I hadn't already been a Whedon fan.
About a year after I saw Firefly a friend lent me the Sergio Leone / Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns, and I gave them a chance because I loved Firefly. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that I also liked standard westerns, although I've yet to find any that match the quality of the Leone/Eastwood films (or FF).

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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Friday, November 4, 2005 4:16 AM

SAFEAT2ND

Quote:
Originally posted by Stardude:
Which ironically enough is what both Sci Fi and the Western needs to keep it's now sophisticated and intelligent audiences watching and attentive

I agree, but the problem is, this section of the market is not where the money. It sad to say, the intelligent sophisticated audience is the minority of viewers.

I like westerns, but not the stereotypical, cookie cutter, type. I preferred the "spagetti westerns" and most recently ones like Unforgiven, The Quick and the Dead, and Silverado. In these, there are no clear cut "good" guys. That's what drew me to Firefly. Gritty, not polished. No, white ten gallon hat, wearing good guys.

I am not a fan of Buffy (I didn't mind Angel), I had no idea who Joss was. It was the tone of the show and the unfortunate handle of "space western" that caught my attention.

Welcome aboard Stardude! Nice first post!!

Safeat2nd, Chief Handyman of Destiny

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Friday, November 4, 2005 4:18 AM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION

I have always loved Westerns...fond memories of sitting on Dad's lap as a little rugrat watching John Wayne.

Some of my favorite movies of all time are Westerns...

Silverado
Unforgiven
High Plains Drifter
Rio Bravo

Plus, I was also fed a steady diet of Star Trek reruns, Road Runner cartoons, Japanese monster movies with a side of Charlie Chan. (We got cable when it first came out. 6 channels! Woo hoo!)

Somehow this all morphed into a rabbid love of Firefly from the first time I saw it advertized. I was excited about seeing the show, and I was not disappointed even thought it was aired out of order (did not know that until much later).

What TOTALLY hooked me beyond anything I could have expected was the end of the Train job. I fell out of the chair I was laughing so damn hard.

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Friday, November 4, 2005 4:48 AM

BISHAMON

While I have been a Firefly fan since the first episode aired, and I was a Whedon fan long before that, I can see where you are coming from.

I, too, have never been much of a fan of westerns; in fact, it was one of my least-favourite genres. The idea of a sci-fi western didn't sit well with me, despite being a huge SF fan, but because Joss was behind it, I made a point of watching. From that point on, I was hooked! Firefly is one of my favorite TV series of all time (I hesitate to say it's my absolute all-time favorite).

I think there were two problems with Firefly catching on from a concept standpoint; First, I know many people who either refuse to watch SF shows, or they watch them but won't admit it. They have this idea that it's akin to reading comic books or watching cartoons (i.e. for kids, in their minds). That turns many people off, but there are still a lot of SF fans out there. However, I feel that many people who like SF aren't 'into' westerns, and vice-versa. Rather than enticing more people to the show, it alienated them before they had even seen a single episode. This, combined with the fact that Fox made it require serious effort to actually watch more than an episode or two, made it all the more difficult for people to get hooked.

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Friday, November 4, 2005 5:18 AM

ETERNALS

As DonCoat said, this is about the frontier. Moving out among the stars would be much like going on a conostoga wagon to the old west. There would only be so much that you could bring. You would bring an anvil, and one set of hammer and tongs, and as much iron stock as you could without comprimising everything else, then you would make what you need out of what you brought. You'd bring one axe and maybe a spare handle, but that would be optional as you could always carve one.
Robert Heinlein in his book "Time enough for love" did a remarkable example of this. The rest of the book might not be for you, but his take on the colonizing of a planet is exemplorary.

I believe that people would load as much as they could on a ship, and then just blast off for the unknown. Once you got there, you only had what you blasted off with, so you'd better have not forgot things, and you'd better be good at jury rigging what was left.

Serenity went between the worlds, but never was a whole part of one, which allowed a switch between genres, which in turn helped plot or pilot the show so that it wouldn't have turned boring. Getting tired of the old west, go to the modern future.

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Friday, November 4, 2005 6:18 AM

ZEEK

I think it all comes down to this...Joss is preaching to open minded people. If you aren't going to give a show a chance because of it's setting or genre or whatever, then he just doesn't want to deal with you. Yes, it's a problem for making money, but that's not what he really, deep down cares about.

So, really to find this beautiful piece of art people have to let go and give a scifi western a chance. Seems like the majority of people who really give it a shot end up seeing what we all found.

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Friday, November 4, 2005 6:41 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH

Well, I just gotta throw my two cents in. First off, to inject some positiveness into this thread.

To borrow a surprisingly good line from Man of the House, it's all about the duality of man. You've got born to kill on one side, and peace on the other. I agree that there's horrible cruelty and so forth in humanity, but there's also incredible good. You've got your psychopathic killers and Hitlers on one hand, and your Gandis, Martin Luther Kings, and Mother Theresas on the other. There's people who are incredibly brave and selfless out there, so don't lose heart in humanity yet.

Now, about Firefly: part of the problem was also that people didn't even know about it. I never heard anything about it until Serenity came out, and I know a lot of people who didn't either. And it's not like I don't watch TV. I watch Fox every week to catch Simpsons. Had I heard of it, I would have watched it immediately, since I'm a fan of Joss Whedon, and just the premise of a space western would have fascinated me. So that was the big problem, I think. Anyways, that's my little take on things.

I give to you the Seeker of Serenity, the Valkyrie Warrior, the Gourmet Cook and the Truth Scoper.

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Friday, November 4, 2005 6:47 AM

BLACKOUTNIGHTS

Another convert! Yay! No power in the 'verse can stop us!

I agree with safeat2nd. The spaghetti westerns and Leone's view were excellent. I haven't seen Once Upon a Time in the West yet, which is supposed to be the ultimate from what I hear, but I will see it sooner or later. Pretty much most of Eastwood's movies were good, particularly Josey Wales.

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