River Tam Question by Summerrivers

That guy was Joss Whedon and he was stabbed in the neck with his pen.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Monday, November 7, 2005 4:17 PM

EMBERS

but he totally deserved it!

BTW did you notice the little spoiler for the movie?
LOL

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse,
and have you joined the Browncoats yet?
http://browncoats.serenitymovie.com/serenity/?fuseaction=tools.invlink
&u=embers&linkID=36

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Monday, November 7, 2005 4:54 PM

The River sessions were good and creepy, weren't they? I didn't read that the eeeeeevil doctor was Joss till after I saw them.

Has anybody read Pattern Recognition by Wm Gibson? The premise is that there's a film that's being released one tiny scene at a time, being posted randomly for people to find, and it has an enormous and underground fanbase because it's breathtaking and mysterious. (Sound familiar?) Anyway, I've wondered if that's where they got the idea for the River Tam sessions.

Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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Monday, November 7, 2005 5:22 PM

If you think the River Tam sessions are creepy you should hear my idea for a super hero.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Monday, November 7, 2005 5:54 PM

You don't say. I have enjoyed your eeeeevilheadedness on many occasions. Regale us with your lightbulbousness.

Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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Monday, November 7, 2005 6:05 PM

My idea for a super hero, which I still have no idea how to write for, was a powerful warrior from ancient China who was defeated and captured by a demon he swore to slay. The demon tried to turn to warrior into his servant but the warrior would not break so the demon killed the warrior with the torture known as the death of a thousand cuts. The warrior’s remains were thrown into the corpse pits but the warrior’s will was so great that when the carrion vermin devoured his remains his consciousness manifested within them. From that day on, the warrior became a writhing mass of thousands upon thousands of rats, roaches, ants, centipedes, worms, flies, and various other vermin, roaming the land fighting evil and trying to hunt down the demon who murdered him.

His “condition” is not the only thing unique about him, the only thing that sustains him is his will, it is his will that defines him, the only reason why he exists as an abomination is because of his will to continue to do what he believes is right. Of course that is also his weakness, strike doubt into his insubstantial heart, weaken his resolve, destroy his will and he will cease to exist, literally.

I wish I could draw, so I can make this guy into a comic book.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Monday, November 7, 2005 9:53 PM

Curse my inevitable ability to drag threads off topic! Some day an OT monitor will arrive to drag me to the Blue Hands Room for this!

FFF peeps are just so interesting, I can't help it! Please forgive.

I haven't heard of anything like this guy, you are evilheaded as usual. I'm seeing some cursed to be human and therefore weak possibilities ala Angel, Spidey, Batguy. Poor wormy, ratty guy, my favorite sort of cursed hero. Chinese art has some lovely style for comic book adaptation too, and some great visual possibilities in the movement of masses of creatures under a single will. I want to hear more, but I don't want to be so inappropriate to the threadiness.

You can draw you know, you just stopped giving yourself permission when you were 10. Find the book called "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" by Betty Edwards. To talk yourself into buying it, look at the examples from her classes of people who couldn't draw a stick figure when they started. It is amazing. I do draw, and I've gotten better after doing the exercises. My sister gave me the book because it changed her life. An idea like this shouldn't mold in your brain! Go forth and be evilheaded!

I went to see Serenity again last night and had a good look at River's boots and Mal's boots. They are very similar. Thick soft soles, thick soft leather, straps on the sides, same shape and height. I haven't had a chance to find enough good close-ups of his boots in the series to see for certain, but I think his movie boots are more like River's than they were in the series. Another way Joss is using props etc. to make the connection stronger between Mal and River?

Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 3:30 AM

CPTJACKMURRAY

I think that I've heard something like it; Spawn.

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 9:46 AM

What? How is that anything like Spawn?

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 10:25 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
My idea for a super hero, which I still have no idea how to write for, was a powerful warrior from ancient China who was defeated and captured by a demon he swore to slay. The demon tried to turn to warrior into his servant but the warrior would not break so the demon killed the warrior with the torture known as the death of a thousand cuts. The warrior’s remains were thrown into the corpse pits but the warrior’s will was so great that when the carrion vermin devoured his remains his consciousness manifested within them. From that day on, the warrior became a writhing mass of thousands upon thousands of rats, roaches, ants, centipedes, worms, flies, and various other vermin, roaming the land fighting evil and trying to hunt down the demon who murdered him.

His “condition” is not the only thing unique about him, the only thing that sustains him is his will, it is his will that defines him, the only reason why he exists as an abomination is because of his will to continue to do what he believes is right. Of course that is also his weakness, strike doubt into his insubstantial heart, weaken his resolve, destroy his will and he will cease to exist, literally.

I wish I could draw, so I can make this guy into a comic book.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

So why doesn't his wormy forms go jump in a lake so he can be eaten by fish. Then take over the fish and have them get caught by fishermen. Take over said fishermen and become an army of demon fighting fisherman guys?

Or have the bird die near a pack of wolves and take them over. That would be far more powerful than birds and bugs and stuff.

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 10:46 AM

He exists by sheer force of will. He controls the vermin by suppressing their will and replacing it with his own. He just doesn't have the power to control more intelligent animals. There are other reasons that I don't want to reveal since I might one day write something for him. For now, just accept the explanation that it's because he can't suppress the will of more intelligent animals.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 1:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
it's because he can't suppress the will of more intelligent animals.
"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

One could also make a case that supressing the will of more intelligent creatures is more karmic than taking over the role of queen to hive creatures.

Since we've hijacked this thread anyway, I imagine this very concept (suppressing the will of other creatures) might give him some serious problems, both in ease of execution (power drain; containment of the insect/ratty entity), and in personal angst.

Of course I wouldn't want you to write about any ideas that could be hijacked, but I think the concept is pretty powerful, and the execution could be multiheaded, what with the temptation to slip into the attributes of the creatures he's controlling and lose control of his agenda for doing good.....hmmm ta dum hum hum hum. Just visualizing a fair bit since you brought this up last night. Not to worry though, I have a pretty hard line on absconding with other people's ideas, and my work tends to be more serene/less dynamic in composition and content, but the visualizing is fun. I keep getting these dynamic images of swarms on walls, in sewers, boiling out of dark water, in black and white with little touches of color. I'd really like to hear about it when you decide where to take this idea.
*waves superhero pennant and cheers*

Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 2:35 PM

Even though I just came up with this character about a week ago, I've actually thought ahead quite a bit into the story for this guy, actually up to his confrontation with the demon who murdered him and it's not what you would expect. Let's just say that there are certain interesting revelations and the demon is not what he used to be, he ain't no philanthropist, but he’s not exactly what you would expect from the average demon, although he’s not a Buffy type demon either.

Oh and about the influence of the creatures he’s controlling, there was a period of madness after he becomes the abomination before he actually learns to fully control those vermin and truly begin to impose his will over them.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 6:57 PM

That's actually a very interesting concept. You could maybe chronicle his history of doing battle with the demon to tie in with things like the "Black Plague" rat contagion of the middle ages ~perhaps the demon became the power behind the thrones of all the crowned heads of Europe. Maybe the Biblical plagues of old were him doing battle with ancient rulers and pharoahs who were under the demon's influence.

If there is ever a plague of locusts descending on FOX network execs, we'll know who to thank. Or maybe all the attorneys in the world suddenly get devoured by a writhing mass of roaches (the poor roaches).

Don't forget the love interest. There should be some modernday woman who reminds him of a love interest he knew in ancient China (who of course was killed by the demon). I'd personally make her an insect right's activist battling the corporate chemical companies who manufacture insecticide. Bug persecution must end.

XG

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 8:17 PM

Whoaaaaaaa a a aaa oo a!
The zero gravity zone has entered the building (or is it that the building has entered the zgz?)

I am falling upside down now....and entering the levity zone

Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
and it's not what you would expect.

there was a period of madness after he becomes the abomination

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

I like it best when it's not what I would expect, gettin' all bendy and such.

Always a good thing when there's a period of some kind of madness with paradigm shift. It usually adds to the depth and accessibility of a character.

Yeah, I'm surprised you've only been mulling this for a week. Sounds like the idea has been percolating in your back brain for some time.

Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 8:40 PM

The ideas about this character have been coming to me pretty fast, although I do have an idea that's been percolating in the back of my brain for some time. One thing that I’ve never liked about fantasy is how necromancers are always the bad guys. It never made no sense to me for necromancers to want to kill everyone since you need life to have death. My idea for necromancers has always been being preservers of life, because very simply, more life, more death, more undeath. My idea for a necromantic kingdom is not a barren wasteland, it’s a lively place, with lots of happy people, with the undead and golems doing most of the menial jobs, no graves since when people die they get raised, where undeath is not reviled or feared, it's just a part of life. I've even worked out a basic economic model for dealing with the dead. When someone dies, necromancers pay the family of the deceased for the corpse and raises it as a mindless undead. If the family has money, they pay the necromancers to have them raise the dead as an intelligent undead. People also pay vampires to get turned into vampires themselves and criminals are kept alive, their blood harvested to feed the vampires. A wonderful, happy kingdom of undeath.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 10:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
The ideas about this character have been coming to me pretty fast

One thing that I’ve never liked about fantasy is how necromancers are always the bad guys.
A wonderful, happy kingdom of undeath.

The ideas that come slamming in fullblown, are pretty often my favorite things to work.

Usually the denizens of the land of the necromancer are shortsighted and fail to plan for the future, and they have no depth whatsoever. It would be refreshing to see some city planning...What? You have created a Sims of the Dead? Will there be a Disneyland of the Dead?

One of the things I really enjoy about Joss' stuff is the great depth of emotion he allows his monsters. I find it really boring when the evil is flat. Real evil doesn't often notice it's evil, it just goes about having normal experiences, going to parties, worrying about the kids, and mowing others down along the way. When evil perceives itself, there is always justification and a perception that it's doing the necessary, or the best under the circumstances, the thing you'll thank them for later, or the motivation with no spark at all (the writer's worst choice) "I had no choice".

We are going to the special hell for people who talk in movies and hijack threads.

Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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Wednesday, November 9, 2005 10:09 AM

Good and evil are so subjective. I generally try to think beyond the limits of those concepts. My idea for a necromantic kingdom does not concern itself with good or evil. It preserves and it endures. The kingdom will persist and grow when all others have crumbled into dust and faded from the memories of time. It preserves life, not only that but to give life thought, essence, and form even after death. That is the purpose of its being, it exists to preserve existence.

As for the demon, he was born into a world of darkness. He knew nothing but pain, anguish, suffer, rage, and hatred. He is a creature of evil, he was born into a world of evil, it is his nature, he is defined by it, it is the core of his being. There is no choice in the underworld, there is only evil but that is not the way of the mortal world. Here there is a choice, one is only evil when chooses to do evil. It takes the demon time, but he begins to understand the choice. He’s an intelligent creature; he has always known what it is to choose but as I said before there is no choice in the underworld, only evil. Now that he is in the mortal world he truly knows what it means to choose. He learns that here he is defined by his choice, not his nature. His conflict with the warrior is an interesting one indeed. The warrior is driven by a singular goal, unflinching in his will, the demon has learned the ways of the mortal world, he has learned that here will be defined by his choice not his nature. I’ve given away a bit too much but it does give you some insight into how I think.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Wednesday, November 9, 2005 8:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:

A wonderful, happy kingdom of undeath.

Good and evil are so subjective. I generally try to think beyond the limits of those concepts.

It preserves life, not only that but to give life thought, essence, and form even after death. That is the purpose of its being, it exists to preserve existence.

He learns that here he is defined by his choice, not his nature.

His conflict with the warrior is an interesting one indeed.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

Ok, I had to think about where is your conflict if there is no presumption of the line between good and evil (wherever you choose to draw it, and yes I believe that is a very subjective thing), but if you're going to make this be a happy place of weird death, then you create that tension in the viewer by drawing the line outside the box; somewhere out of sight of the viewer.

Cognitive dissonance. Yes, I like this very much.

You'll have some twilight zone-like challenges to maintain the tension (avoiding the hokey), but this could be a magnificent story if you twist it well.

Hmmm, yeah, I believe good/evil polarity is a factor of this plane of existance, and not so much elsewhere. The demon's would be an interesting journey to describe to say the least. I see possibilities in the interaction between the demon and the hero where the viewer could be in sympathy with the demon's perspective. Again with the dissonance, mister, I like the way you think.

I have been wandering this site for quite a while (the only fansite I've ever much visited), but it's a very different thing to de-cloak. The emotional tone has gone to so many different places since the movie opened. I'm enjoying watching the ways people choose to deal with other opinions, their own excitement and enthusiasm, or grief, or rage, the difficulties of communication with flat affect, and the pressures of the burgeoning membership. All very interesting. I like the way Haken has the site set up with a whole fistful of ways of communicating. Threads don't always suit my itch for indepth exploration of concepts, and I haven't mastered the use of the blog yet. I like the idea of being able to hang out and yack around a fire in this abandoned echoing thread. I've been an SF fan forever, but this site is the first time I've ever encountered so many wildly creative, funny, brilliant humans with whom to exchange perspectives and ideas.

So, what are you doing about these creatures? Can't let this stuff mold in your brain, that's really not good for a person. You obviously have the necessary passion for your stories, and work like this can only expand your abilities to perceive and understand. The drawing will take care of itself if you nurture it and let it happen. Are you reading this thinking I can't I can't? Please just look at the student examples in the book I mentioned above. It was written for people who don't think they can draw, and she's been teaching this course with a passion for bringing people to their innate ability to draw for years (the first edition came out in 1979). I've been drawing since I was old enough to hold a pencil, and this book changed my ability to access the flow in some remarkable ways. I don't recommend it lightly, but hmmm, I am bossy aren't I.

Oh, and your River quote about swallowing a bug? I see now that choice might have had a slightly different motivation than the usual!

Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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Wednesday, November 9, 2005 10:09 PM

My idea for necromancers simply has a different philosophy, different morals and ethics than what we are used to. They think beyond good and evil, the preservation of life, of knowledge, of ideas, and of existence itself is their greatest concern. Like I said before, they will exist even after all other empires have crumbled into dust. They will endure to safeguard the knowledge, the ideas, and the life that once was so they will never be forgotten, so that they will never be lost. The conflict would with those who threaten order and life as well as rogue necromancers who corrupt the craft and those who are normally perceived to be good. Knights and paladins and holy warriors of “good” will probably fight the necromancers because they fear what they do not understand but of course that does not mean there is no chance for peace because the greatest threat to ourselves and to each other lies not in suspicion but in ignorance.

As for what I’m going to do with my ideas, I’m thinking of writing something for this [url] http://www.nanowrimo.org/index.php. I have two ideas for the novel. One is called Super Villains Anonymous, which is basically about a group of super villains who are tired of getting their butts kicked and are trying to reform, getting jobs, trying very hard not to blow stuff up, and some of the superheroes are being jackasses, harassing and making fun of the super villains who are trying to reform. The other idea is Blood Witch, which is a pretty lame name, I’m trying to think of something better, and it’s another superhero type character. She has power over blood, she has limited telekinetic control over her blood or any fresh blood she touches and she can make blood burn and combust. I’ve even built a mythology around her and her power over blood.

The craziness has been flooding into my brain for the last couple months, ever since I saw Batman Begins and came up with an idea for a new adversary for Batman, it’s very weird. I’ve been writing out a lot of story outlines and some dialogue but I’m not good at writing narratives. I don’t think I can learn to draw either, I’m ambidextrous, I took art lessons from when I was 6 up until I turned 13 and I cannot draw very well with either hand.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 5:49 AM

Art imitates life. Or so they say.

Guess what giantevillhead. If you develop your idea in a public forum, it may, just MAY end up on the bigscreen (if it's original). Even if it isn't, even if it's been thought up beforehand by someone else and already been done a 100 different ways, if you add some unique twist to it, STILL it could sell (originality is so cliche these days).

Like someone said earlier, go check out Swarm. You most definately gotta add some new twist to this to call it original. And if you do, find yourself some so-called "reputable" agent in the land of the unimaginative (hollywood) and put your ideas on paper (have a lawyer put you thru the copyright gauntlet). Never this place, or any other public forum for posting ideas.

Fools who try to be original in public forums get their ideas stolen and get xerocredit, xerodollars, and xerothanx in a world with xerogravity.

XG

No such thing as originality. It's all "Deja-vu" with a dollar sign in front.

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 6:50 AM

MIRAND

THAT i call hijacking ;)

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 6:54 AM

this thread got hijacked 5 days ago or so. that's like 35+ days in dog years.

XG

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 12:10 PM

I doubt anyone would try to steal my ideas. My ideas do not appeal to the "mainstream," except maybe Super Villains Anonymous, I suppose it could be made into a Pixar movie, maybe as a sequel to the Incredibles.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 12:35 PM

THEONETRUEBIX

FWIW, Joss has never mentioned Pattern Recognition, but he has mentioned Universal coming to him and showing him (of all things) that damned video of the kid in front of his webcam lip-syncing that made the rounds online and suggested to Joss that he come up with something that would spread like that did.

Also FWIW, by the time Pattern Recognition came out, it's not as if the concept of viral videos was new.

(Lastly, not to be snarky or anything, but the entire payoff to the Sessions clips is the lead-up to the interviewers death-by-pen. It's set up in the first clip that was released, and then led into in the final clip that was released. Half the emotional arc of the clips is this particular point, so it boggles me when people don't get it.)

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 7:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
They think beyond good and evil, the preservation of life, of knowledge, of ideas, and of existence itself is their greatest concern.

I’m thinking of writing something for this [url] http://www.nanowrimo.org/index.php.

Batman Begins

Oh look, the sun came up!
And Whoaa there is a region of gravity...

Yeah, somebody can always take your ideas, and there are always people who will, even in places without glass walls.
The thing is that even with all the detail in the world (and you do have some detail worked out), it's still all about the twist you put on it when you put it down on paper, film, whatever. For example Buffy the movie vs Buffy the show. The movie is the reason it took me several years to sit down in front of the show; I liked the premise (vampires, my favorite) but I didn't think it was terribly well executed. The show hooked me right away because of Joss' voice.

I don't know Swarm, but now I'll make an effort to find some. With all the storytelling people have been doing since we first figured out how to communicate, the twist you put into your own version is what there is of originality.

I also think the internet gives humanity an interesting level of connectedness, and has a smeary and collaborative effect on ideas. What happened with 'all your base are belong to us' is a good example of part of what I mean: it was everywhere, tons of people had a part in it, there was such delight and extreme silliness, and then there were other manifestations and manipulations of the same kind. I'm thinkin' that kind of layering of collaborative ideas isn't going away anytime soon, and it has some pretty amazing possibilities.

I really enjoyed Batman Begins, after having only been entertained by the other Bats. X-Men, both of them, mmmmm.

Be sure to post somewhere to let everyone know when you get some of this up and out into the air.

Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 8:27 PM

It doesn’t really matter to me if someone “steals” my ideas. The significance of ideas is not dependent upon who created them. If someone does “steal” my ideas, I will still be here, I won’t be bitter or angry, but I will continue to expand upon those ideas, I will challenge those ideas, and I will forge and shape new ideas. Anyone can mold a preexisting idea and make it his or her own but the claim of ownership to an idea is meaningless because once an idea has been given essence it exists by itself bound by no one, which is one of many reasons why I think Lucasfilm sucks because it’s so anti-fanfic, damn thought police. I didn’t create Batman but I have thought up of ideas that will expand upon the character. I’ve thought up of an adversary for Batman who will make Batman ask himself whether he fights for justice or vengeance and the difference, if any, between those two concepts.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 9:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
the claim of ownership to an idea is meaningless because once an idea has been given essence it exists by itself bound by no one,

Yeah, that was part of what I was saying above. I don't even really claim the 'giving essence' myself, except as a beholder. I think ideas come -through- me, but don't belong specifically -to- me at any point. The only thing I partially claim is the colors I choose, and not even all of that. I claim my vessleness! Yay, rah rah le vase!

I realize others think very differently on this point, and I try to stay out of their way. If people want to think they can own an idea, great. Take it, all yours, bye now. I like the smeary thing better anyway, and if I understood what you said (now that I've erased it!) if somebody takes ideas I've worked on and calls them their own, that's ok, I'll just get more ideas anyway. How many times has it happened to you that you're thinking about something, working on it in your head, and you see it somewhere. I like that, it doesn't bug me, I think we're all riffing off each other all the time anyway. Humans do that, take the stories they hear and incorporate the wisdom of them, till it becomes part of them. Blah blah, Joss reference, Shakespeare reference, blah blah.

Whenever I find myself getting too attached to a particular piece, or thinking "I really like that one, maybe I should keep it" I -must- give it away (not sell, give), the sooner the better. Wanting to keep something because I've grown too fond of it (this is about me, not saying everyone should do this) leads me down a path of being afraid I won't be able to to as well again. Not a good place for me, dams the flow. So, yeah, definitely with you on this thing, but you 'sound' annoyed?

Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 9:21 PM

People who try to own ideas are hurting the ideas. Ideas, like everything in this world, must change or it will stagnate and die. Ideas are created in thought, they are essence without form, they were born in the mind and they must evolve and grow in the mind. It is much better to have many minds expanding upon an idea than just one mind. That’s why I like comic books so much. Comic books always changing, always expanding, the characters are always being met with new challenges. Every time a comic book character gets a new author, new ideas are introduce to the characters, to the mythology, to everything. This year’s Superman is not the same as the Superman from 20 years ago; this year’s Superman isn’t even the same as last year’s Superman. Comic book worlds are so alive, so dynamic, they’re so real, even though they’re so fantastic and incredible, and it’s just wonderful.

Oh the craziness just keeps growing. It’s always good to see my insanity infect the minds of others *insert maniacal laugh*. Oh, the thread hijacking is good too. All part of my evil plan to... do... something.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 9:38 PM

To Liminalosity:

You say the Internet gave we peoples a "smeary, collaborative connectedness on ideas," ...I'd say you're way off base.

Newp nope quite the opposite. We have people who make a name for themselves stealing other people's ideas (like "scriptwriters", the clever parasites who infest hollywood). Of course, the studios protect themselves by legally not accepting FanFic scripts. Why should they? They can have their "scriptwriters" surf the fanbase forums and the newsgroups for ideas, steal them away from the original thinker who thunk them up (it was publicly posted so nobody can debate that the idea coming from a "scriptwriter" wasn't original ~ it's all perfectly legal).

"scriptwriters" are well paid and also proclaimed heroes. The creativity they stole dies of course (side-effect of the theft). They couldn't think it up on their own but they can profit by what they stole. It's explained away as a fluke of their genius when they can't follow up with more of the same.

It's all out there. Free for the stealing.

Paying royalties to the brain that thought it up will drive up the production budget. We can't have cast and unionized crew living off anything less than a caviar and lobster diet. If we shell out money to the poor bastard we stole the idea from, we may be forced to eat commoner's food.

They are gods who give the mob entertainment, they maintain the peace, and as such, they xserve the best. It's just ximple as that.

To giantevilehead:

You wouldn't be bitter and angry, but I'm bitter and angry for you. They would pwn you.

XG ~ the no-PWNge-zone is in effect

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 9:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
People who try to own ideas are hurting the ideas. Ideas, like everything in this world, must change or it will stagnate and die. Ideas are created in thought, they are essence without form, they were born in the mind and they must evolve and grow in the mind. It is much better to have many minds expanding upon an idea than just one mind.

I think trying to keep a deathgrip on a good idea hurts the gripper(s), but not the information. A wonderful idea might sometimes be poorly presented, or altered beyond recognition, abandoned out of boredom with repetition, but I think fine ideas no matter how mistreated will always resurface.

Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 10:13 PM

Ah but it does hurt the idea. The idea could be lost, it may one day be rediscovered but so much time would have been wasted, so much potential unfulfilled.

XEROGRAVITY, where are you getting all those ideas? It's reality isn't it? Leave it to reality to make people feel bitter and angry. Luckily I don't live in reality, I live in a wonderful place of sunshine, lollipops and rainbows, brighter than a lucky penny, and I feel pretty, oh, so pretty, so pretty and witty and bright.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 10:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by XeroGravity:
To Liminalosity:

You say the Internet gave we peoples a "smeary, collaborative connectedness on ideas," ...I'd say you're way off base.

They can have their "scriptwriters" surf the fanbase forums and the newsgroups for ideas, steal them away from the original thinker who thunk them up

"scriptwriters" are well paid and also proclaimed heroes. The creativity they stole dies of course (side-effect of the theft). They couldn't think it up on their own but they can profit by what they stole. It's explained away as a fluke of their genius when they can't follow up with more of the same.

Sorry, I didn't see you there.
Thanks for bring up the 'all your base' thing in a pitched battle, I've been thinking about it quite a lot since.

Do you do? You must something because you're so damn funny, and stuffed to the gills with resources from all over the place that you break apart and put back together in some amazing ways.

The fun for me is in the creating. It has to be there. The money is just a side effect of the must be done. If someone rips me I don't give a sh*t, -unless- they've contracted with me and then rip me. That's a different thing.

You say "The creativity they stole dies of course (side-effect of the theft)."
To which I say punishment enough for ripping a whole idea, with the side effect that the idea is out there. If it's a good and happy little viral idea, it will affect enough people to change the world a little. I'd trade making the world a better place for 15 minutes of fame any old day of the week. If some screenwriter is paddling in his swimming pool while I'm trying to decide on groceries or gas, I'm still a happy camper, and I get the next idea and the next laugh too.

Does this make sense? I'm not trying to get you to -share- this idea, but I would be pleased if you understood it rather than saying you'd be bitter and angry -for- someone who holds it.

Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 10:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
Ah but it does hurt the idea. The idea could be lost, it may one day be rediscovered but so much time would have been wasted, so much potential unfulfilled.

Bwah haa haa! The speed of light (or at least the speed of thought and slow typing) is a factor.

Yeah, butcept I think ideas (like tulips and irises) are not hurt or lost by being buried for a while, even a long while. I don't think the potential of any good idea goes unfulfilled in the long term, and I think time is only wasted in persuit of negative goals (you know, anger, hatred, ya ya all that).

Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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Saturday, November 12, 2005 5:12 AM

In response to your question:

"Do you do?"

Yes I do. Or at least I did. What you should really be wondering is what I didn't do, when I did what I was doing. What I didn't do is (or at least wasn't) worthy of talk. It just wasn't do-able when I was expected to do it. Now I'd do it without hesitation... it would be "do" or die. Do you understand?

Do you?

XG

Don't make me do this again.

Doobydooby doo. Doo Doo-B do dooo.

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Saturday, November 12, 2005 7:34 AM