Jayne & Kaylee? by SergeantX

Jayne obviously cares for Kaylee, but in more of a little sister way. If anything, Jayne cares about Kaylee too much to sleep with her. All the sexual relationships we've seen Jayne have so far have been with whores or groupies. Just a spot of fun with no nasty emotional strings attached. Besides, Simon + Kaylee 4ever!

"I don't get it. Is it Avant Garde?" Principal Snyder, BTVS

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 8, 2003 1:36 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

I have noticed at least one fanfic author has written about a Jayne / Kaylee relationship.

I wonder if Josh will introduce that later in the show as a story conflict. In the message script in appears Simon and Kaylee go a little erratic.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 8, 2003 1:38 PM

TALONPEST

Nah, not seeing it. Joss Wheadon shows have had a history of letting us know when people like someone in a much more overt way than "a twinkle in his eye."

Besides, Jayne is too brutish to want anything more than sex, which he gets from whores (one of the best lines from "Our Mrs. Reynolds" was when Simon was explaining the goodnight kiss that Saffron used on Mal, and Jayne says, "That's why I never kiss'em on the mouth").

Also, having Jayne try to have a relationship would ruin his whole character- him bending over backwards to please a woman would wreck the whole comedy of his being totally clueless about how they think, even more so than most of us. (See "Shindig" when Mal says something insensitive to Kaylee, and Kaylee and Zoe walk off in a huff, Jayne asks "Is she mad or sumthin'?")

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 8, 2003 2:28 PM

Jayne seems to care far more about his family (The Message) then he does about the girls he has sex with. I think that his obvious affection for Kaylee shows that he’s not after her. He doesn't seem to show any emotional connection with sex, so it seems like how he shows affection to Kaylee puts her much closer to sister than lover.

I would like to see Jayne in a romantic relationship, there would be a lot we could learn from the character in that situation. For example how he would balance his tough guy look, and personality with love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 8, 2003 2:56 PM

SERENITYVALLEY

Quote:
Nah, not seeing it. Joss Whedon shows have had a history of letting us know when people like someone in a much more overt way than "a twinkle in his eye."

True. Very true, BUT! Do you recall that James Marsters made Spike have sort of an attraction to Buffy on screen ever since the first episode he was in. He didn't tell Joss either. He just kept on playing on that and strangely enough, they DID end up together. Just a thought.
But yes, Kaylee and Simon! Did they ever even get back together after Simon was all rude in Jaynetown (I believe it was)? It doesn't seem they'd gotten as close as they had been, but they'll probably end up together.

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?" -Wash
"I told him to sit down," -Simon

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 8, 2003 3:17 PM

KAYTHRYN

Quote:
Posted by SerenityValley:
But yes, Kaylee and Simon! Did they ever even get back together after Simon was all rude in Jaynetown (I believe it was)? It doesn't seem they'd gotten as close as they had been, but they'll probably end up together.

In OiS Simon is sitting on the couch and Kaylee is next to him with her legs over his and they are laughing and talking about funny stories where Simon was naked and drunk. I think they were pretty close.

-------------------------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 8, 2003 3:18 PM

SUCCATASH

Interesting idea. I think if Jayne made a move on Kaylee, Mal would kick his ass, and Book would be right behind him. Kaylee would DEFINITELY have to make the first offical move.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 8, 2003 5:14 PM

TALONPEST

SV- not having read any interviews with James Marsters about that particular nuance of his performance, but I can't imagine that he ever intended for Spike and Buffy to be together from the first time Spike appeared. I think it's far more likely that he did that as a (very effective) way of making Spike seem more dangerous and crazy. Adding eroticism to any conflict makes it that much more interesting.

But yeah, I got the impression that Kaylee forgave Simon by the end of "Safe," because the whole point of that last dinner scene seemed to be to let him pull the chair out for her, have her hesitate, then smile and sit. And then there was very little about them for the next few episodes, which was good, because I didn't watch the show to see a soap opera. But as Kaythryne said, in the beginning of "Objects in Space" they were extremely friendly.

As for Jayne making a move on Kaylee, I agree that Mal wouldn't stand for it, since he has said time and time again that he doesn't trust Jayne, for obvious reasons. Simon would like it even less. But I think the harshest reactions would come from Zoe and Inara, who deffinately treat Kaylee like a little sister, and they both know what Jayne is capable of even if Kaylee doesn't. Oh, and can you imagine Kaylee's reaction if she found out Jayne tried to sell out Simon and River?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 8, 2003 7:16 PM

LJC

Meegzi actually wrote an excellent Jayne/Kylee story set during "Serenity" called "In A Flash" which I can totally see.

http://firefly.populli.org/archive/0/ina.shtml

--
Some take the high road. Some take the low road.
And some just go screaming down the highway, dropping flaming bits of wreckage.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 9, 2003 4:48 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Yeah, Mal wouldn't like it for sure.

But what if it was set up like Jayne watching Kaylee and Simon. A little jealous, not knowing how to act. Wanting to step up but caring so much to be afraid to. A nice contradiction for Jaynes character.

One thing with Mr Wheldon's characters, is they tend to evolve, changed by events. I think we will see Jayne change quite a bit over time. Think of the scene at the end of Jaynestown with him not unstanding why the mudder died for him. He was more disturbed by it than he would have been if his outward character was the only thing going on is his head. Also the fact he is sending cash home to his family, never would have guessed it until I read it.

I think the Kaylee / Simon relationship will grow, until something happens and Kaylee will move on Jayne. Likely after the tough guy turns uncharacteristicly puppyish at some point.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 9, 2003 8:54 PM

KOFFEE

Quote:
Originally posted by Lupa:
Jayne obviously cares for Kaylee, but in more of a little sister way.

I would have to agree with this sentiment. I'm sure any feeling Jayne would have for Kaylee are purely platonic. If not, being the brute he is, he would have acted on it by now. And since we have seen no evidence of him making any moves on Kaylee, I highly doubt we ever would have.

----------------------------------------------
“It's a real burn, being right so often.”

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 10, 2003 3:49 PM

Select to view spoiler:

In The Message Kaylee and Simon are definitely closer at the end, there is a show of their hand holding, so after at the beginning Simon messed up in the end he’s there for here, and shes accepting the emotional support.
But in Heart of Gold, which we now have (lots of) evidence to suggest comes after that Kaylee is still not getting any from Simon, and mentioning it in a conversation about man-whores.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 10, 2003 6:34 PM

SHINY

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
Select to view spoiler:
But in Heart of Gold, which we now have (lots of) evidence to suggest comes after that Kaylee is still not getting any from Simon, and mentioning it in a conversation about man-whores.

What I found odd about that is in Objects, after this exchange:

SIMON
Naked. Yes. And, uh, on top of the statue of Hippocrates.
(Kaylee laughs)
Can you just picture me?

KAYLEE
What, naked?
(teasing)
Oh, well, hmm. Let's see. I'm gonna have to conjure up a... Yeah, that's-that's gonna be difficult.

I had just assumed they had actually hooked up and Kaylee was just being 'ironic like'.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 10, 2003 6:34 PM

SHINY

(double post)

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 10, 2003 6:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
I had just assumed they had actually hooked up and Kaylee was just being 'ironic like'.

I wonder how much is left over from when the order was different. I kind of wish that they just stole some scenes (actually I really wish, then there would be even more Firefly to look forward to on the DVD) and those scenes (in Objects in Space) explained why Inara was staying. That way some of the stuff that doesn’t make sense might. Or then again might not, because they were still awkward in that same episode and ones that came after it (all two of them other than HoG).

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, June 11, 2003 4:37 PM

HARDWARE

You know I never considered a Jayne and Kaylee hook up. I mean the educated, sophisticated Simon and the homespun, bubbly Kaylee seem so trapped in each other's orbits.

Of course, what happens say if some blue handed boys find Simon and Kaylee?

Mr. Bluehands reaches into his jacket and pulls out his magic wand while Simon and Kaylee cringe away. As his hand comes up with his whining death wand, an odd smile on his face, Jayne's face comes into the shot behind his, a grimace of determination. Jayne's hand slaps over Bluehand's mouth. A quick shot from behind and to one side as we see Jayne has his big Bowie knife out and buries it in Bluehand's back.

As Jayne let's the body fall to the ground, Bluehand #2 steps up behind Jayne. The much smaller man gives Jayne a kidney punch that throws him past Simona nd Kaylee and into the wall.

Bluehand #2 casually bends over and picks up the wand from Bluehand's corpse. He brandishes it in front of him and steps up to dispose of Simon and Kaylee, the brother of Bluehand's smile plastered on his face.

As Jayne leaps from out of the shot onto Bluehand #2 and they fall to the ground. At first it seems like Jayne will easily win the day, but Bluehand #2 is inhumanly strong. Each one of his punches knocks Jayne's head back, leaving him reeling. Jayne's punches don't seem to have much affect, except giving Bluehand #2 a wonderfully blood soaked smile.

As Bluehand #2 stands up, dragging an addled Jayne with him Jayne's hands reach up and clamp around his throat. Small choking noises escape, but nothing else. Jayne is like a rag doll, but his arms are twisted into knots with the pressure he is exerting on Bluehand #2's throat. Bluehand #2 won't go down. He staggers around the room for a minute or more, bashing Jayne into various pieces of furniture, but Jayne won't let go either.

Finally, with a sickening rattle, Bluehand #2 collapses. Simon and Kaylee rush to recover Jayne, who has passed out. They struggle to lift his unconscious form, but have to stop in order to remove his clenched hands from the dead Bluehand's throat.

The outer world's Jayne might seem more approachable to Kaylee, assuming he can be redeemed and rehabilitated. It's not that he's incapable of proper thinking, it is that nobody has ever challenged him to do so. Jayne and Kaylee and Simon might make for an interesting love triangle.

Of course there's always River and Jayne.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, June 11, 2003 4:46 PM

SUCCATASH

Very nice! Great imagery.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, June 11, 2003 5:59 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

I think it's a possiblity. I don't know if I'd say that Simon and Kaylee are a misdirection. It would be very realistic for Jayne to be interested in Kaylee too. It doesn't seem like Kaylee would be adverse to being courted by two men.

Maybe Kaylee would be one of the few (or only)girls Jayne would kiss on the mouth. Some good character development there for the big guy.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, June 11, 2003 7:00 PM

TALONPEST

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
I had just assumed they had actually hooked up and Kaylee was just being 'ironic like'.

I took that incident to mean that Kaylee was implying that she'd spent some time imagining it already.

In my experience of watching Joss's shows (admittadly I am somewhat recently inducted, and only in the last two years have I been really into them- but I've done a LOT of cramming

) when two people get together, you know about it. I can't think of one time over seven years of Buffy and four years of Angel where a sexual relationship between two characters has been anywhere near that subtle. Joss likes to show the audience what people are up to, even none of the other characters know.

Besides which, have we ever even seen Simon and Kaylee kiss? I think saying they've already slept together is jumping the gun somewhat.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, June 12, 2003 6:29 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

Quote:
Originally posted by Talonpest:
Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
I had just assumed they had actually hooked up and Kaylee was just being 'ironic like'.

I took that incident to mean that Kaylee was implying that she'd spent some time imagining it already

I think you're right. Kaylee saying she had already developed a mental picture.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 13, 2003 7:58 PM

KOFFEE

Quote:
Originally posted by Veteran:
I think you're right. Kaylee saying she had already developed a mental picture.

I also agree with this view. Having had mental pictures of men I've been interested in, but never had "physical realtions" with, I knew where she was coming from.

----------------------------------------------
“It's a real burn, being right so often.”

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, June 14, 2003 10:21 AM

KASUO

Had the series continued, there could've been one of those episodes where a "misunderstanding" might have happened that would cause Kaylee to get really mad.

For example, what if the Serenity crew were on a job and Simon saved the life of an attractive local. Maybe this local felt obliged for his saving her and she gets him to go out with her, even if its under false pretenses. One thing could lead to another and an attempted lip-locking on the girl's part and Kaylee witnessing it may cause her to get even by bunkin' up with Jayne.

Yeah, it would seem out of character for Kaylee to try something like that but with Joss' shows, you never completely know what a person is capable of until something drastic happens.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 16, 2003 11:35 AM

CANADIANJON

spoilers
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
In heart of gold, the only 2 horny
people in the whorehouse were jayne and kaylee.
They are both the only horny characters, thinking about getting some action. They would probably have gone to it, eventually. Kaylee would probably
smack jayne around something fierce.

Simon is really stupid for saying that to kaylee
at the start of The Message. That is something
most guys would not even say at age 16, even as a joke. He reminds me of Wesley from Buffy, he
was a pansy, and then Joss later re-tooled the
character completely for Angel. That is what they needed to do with Simon, if the show had continued.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 16, 2003 1:42 PM

Quote:
He reminds me of Wesley from Buffy, he
was a pansy, and then Joss later re-tooled the
character completely for Angel. That is what they needed to do with Simon, if the show had continued.

Oh, you did not just dis my man! I guess Simon is that rare breed of pansy that jumps bounty hunters, takes a bullet in the leg, gets up, and jumps them again. Just because Simon doesn't go around starting random barfights like Jayne, doesn't mean he's weak. The man is a doctor, therefore, not big on the causing of violence, but he has also proved there is nothing he will not do to defend his loved ones! Sure he sometimes speaks before he thinks, but it one of those traits that humanizes him and keeps him form being this perfect brother-protector-martyr figure.

"I don't get it. Is it Avant Garde?" Principal Snyder, BTVS

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 16, 2003 1:58 PM

KAYTHRYN

Quote:
Posted by Lupa:
I guess Simon is that rare breed of pansy that jumps bounty hunters, takes a bullet in the leg, gets up, and jumps them again.

Ditto Lupa! Don't see why everyone thinks he so weak. He's tough, mentally and physically.... don't make me bring up the shirtless scenes again!

-------------------------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 16, 2003 2:08 PM

/off-topic/

Quote:
don't make me bring up the shirtless scenes again!

Please do! And bring some visuals!

PS: I was looking for a drool-y face emoticon(most appropriate for the subject matter) when I realized - there isn't one! Are others aware of this oversight? How can we properly discuss Simon's bare chest without the appropriate emoticons?

"I don't get it. Is it Avant Garde?" Principal Snyder, BTVS

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 16, 2003 3:52 PM

CANADIANJON

ok, I recant, his muscles are pretty good, and
he is a very brave character.
I only got pissed off at the line, since in real life, you can't say something like that to a girl and expect to get another chance.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 16, 2003 4:40 PM

I don't know. It was an idiotic thing to say, but women have long realized men are idiots and have learned to forgive their trespasses. Occasionally and conditionally. What I thought was particlarly idiotic of Simon was, after realizing his idiodicy, he tried to pretend it never happened instead of trying to ply Kaylee with strawberries and groveling, or some such. So I agree it was pretty stupid of Simon to expect a second chance. Then again, 'here at the bottom of the barrel,' Kaylee's choices are pretty limited, too. I mean if this thing with Simon doesn't work out, then who will she get with? Jayne? Hah! As if!

And you thought I'd never get back on topic.

"I don't get it. Is it Avant Garde?" Principal Snyder, BTVS

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 17, 2003 9:52 AM

i DO aim to misbehave

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Interesting idea. I think if Jayne made a move on Kaylee, Mal would kick his ass, and Book would be right behind him.

somehow I think the "special level of hell" would be mentioned. I think Kaylee could kick his ass pretty well on her own. she wouldn't be afraid to do that. mind, this is totally contingent on Jayne making a move on Kaylee, which I don't think would happen. my sense is more the big brother/little sister aspect. if anybody's ass gets kicked, it would be Simon's by Jayne if Simon ever broke Kaylee's heart. also, I suspect Jayne is a lot like the men Kaylee grew up with, which would automatically categorizes him as "brother" in her mind, making any move on her part mighty distasteful.

Jayne needs a woman of fire and steel who will kiss him and kick his ass within the first five minutes, and that's the one he's going to fall for in a BIG way whether he wants to or not.

"I'm still flyin'...that's enough." ~ Mal

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 17, 2003 10:07 AM

i DO aim to misbehave

Quote:
Originally posted by canadianjon:
Simon is really stupid for saying that to kaylee at the start of The Message. That is something most guys would not even say at age 16, even as a joke. He reminds me of Wesley from Buffy, he was a pansy, and then Joss later re-tooled the character completely for Angel. That is what they needed to do with Simon, if the show had continued.

pansy?

"You ain't weak and that's somethin," Mal, Serenity

so you don't think it took a lot of guts to tranq the crazy brute trying to take over the ship, knowing full well the same crazy brute just might try to take it out of his flesh later? hmph!

(although, that was a pretty dumb thing to say to a girl you're supposed to like. then again, he is a man...

)

"I'm still flyin'...that's enough." ~ Mal

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 17, 2003 10:52 AM

What Simon said reminds me of The Bourne Identity, not the book or the 1988 version but the 2002 movie. In it Matt Damon says, “How could I forget about you?” in a way that seems romantic, just like Simon’s comment you’re the only woman in my world (that’s a paraphrase) might be considered romantic. Matt (Jason Bourne or Webb if it follows the book) then goes on to point out that the only reason for this is that he knows one person and that person is Marie. Simon actually takes away any romanticness before he even says it, but the effect is the same.

In the Bourne identity the effect was funny and Marie understood that, for Kaylee the effect was insulting. Personally I think Simon should be more insulted, and if he were smarter and hadn’t just made an ass of himself he would see that. Simon was stupid, and pissed of Kaylee, Kaylee called Simon a shallow asshole who cares about nothing but getting laid.

Saying that Kaylee is the only girl available doesn’t say anything insulting about Kaylee, it does tirvialize any relationship between them, which is quite nasty, but Kaylee’s comment insult his background, his depth, his profession, his motives, and a few other things as well.

That’s just my way of looking at it, I don’t think someone being a moron and an ass gives someone else the right to be a bigger ass. Of course that doesn’t change the fact that Simon was an idiot.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 17, 2003 11:16 AM

i DO aim to misbehave

Quote:
Originally posted by Christhecynic
That’s just my way of looking at it, I don’t think someone being a moron and an ass gives someone else the right to be a bigger ass. Of course that doesn’t change the fact that Simon was an idiot.

why Chris! you're a romantic! aaaaaawwww

"I'm still flyin'...that's enough." ~ Mal

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 17, 2003 11:16 PM

DRAKON

(although, that was a pretty dumb thing to say to a girl you're supposed to like. then again, he is a man...)

Ya know, First off its an honest appraisal of the situation. And second, she is in the same boat.

Think about it. Mal is too busy not being with Inara to even notice, Wash is married to a gal who could kill anyone of them, Book is celebate, and Jayne is, well, Jayne. At the least, Jayne is like a big brother which would make it all kinds of icky. There is no one else on the boat for her either except Simon.

"You're my kind of stupid."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, June 18, 2003 3:40 AM

i DO aim to misbehave

Quote:
Originally posted by Drakon
Ya know, First off it's an honest appraisal of the situation. And second, she is in the same boat.

actually I take back the cheap shot about how Simon said it because he's a man. funny thing about doctors sometimes--and I'm not talking all of them--but on occasion they can get so wrapped up in what they know about the physical person, they forget to consider the emotional person. Simon went through med school on the hyper-advanced program. probably crammed a freighter-size load of technical medical knowledge into his brain that squeezed the psychology requirement he took in pre-med right out his ear. he can be sensitive and compassionate, but he hasn't had a lot of practice at it in recent years. takes a long time to relearn that, and so far as we know, he'd only been trying for about 8 months on the Firefly timeline. that boy had a LONG way to go.

Kaylee's the opposite. she feels everything, all the time, and under the coveralls and the grease she has the same deep-running feminine romantic streak as every woman in the universe. granted, what Simon said was honest--and if you substituted the men for all the women he mentioned, identical to Kaylee's situation--just not phrased very well.

then again, if there wasn't some strife in the relationship, what fun would it be?

"I'm still flyin'...that's enough." ~ Mal

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, June 18, 2003 4:15 AM

DRAKON

Yeah, think that is part of it. And there is a class problem as well. Something that occured to me is that Kaylee and Simon have many of the same issues in reverse that Inara and Mal have. At least in this one respect.

Both Simon and Inara are big city, high class people, while Mal and Kaylee are simple country folks. Folks who don't want to be looked down on by others who think they are better, and to a large extent, depend of them for all the fineries of their lives. If it weren't for the country folk, the cities would all starve and have no way to maintain their standard of living. There would be no food, nor raw material for their factories.

But part of me, since seeing the episode has wondered if Simon was getting his dig in, before Kaylee did. She is a beautiful, talented gal who plys the spaceways, could have a guy in every port if she wanted. Its not like she has a bounty on her head, or has to watch out for insane relatives.

"My kind of stupid"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, June 18, 2003 4:47 AM