Anyone Attempting to Build a Serenity Model Discussion by bkeating

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Anyone Attempting to Build a Serenity Model Discussion

POSTED BY: BKEATING
UPDATED: Friday, November 18, 2005 11:21
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Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:13 PM

Hiya folks, a brief history.

Ima Star Wars geek. I play SWG and such. I heard about this movie called Serenity...sounded interesting so I got the TV show DVD's. Suffice to say I watched them all in 2 nights...loved it. Saw the movie as well (to my surprise I got tickets for an over 21 theatre...lol they bring beers and food to your seat!). Anyway...Im hooked!

Im maybe a journyman modeler at best. I do model rockets, balsa planes and such. (although not in a long time) I have been lookin for a hobby as of late and thought this may be a cool if not daunting undertaking.

I would like to make a model to scale. Also I would like to create the interior as well...lol.

I have gathered many great floorplans, 3d models, dimensions and such.

I also read that the ship was pretty much actually created in whole for the show (saw this on DVD special features or somethin). This leads me to beleive that it could be done.

I guess my question is:

Are other attempting to do this.

If so, I'd like to setup a thread/website or whatever for peeps interested in sharing ideas about this :)

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:46 PM

VOLUNTEER

I have 40,000 Legos ready to go!

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 6:07 PM

EMBERS

well...I'm still thinking about a 3-D Serenity pillow....
mostly gray, w/the blue reflector/solar panels (what are those things?)
and shiny yellow in the aft 'burn' (what gives the Firefly it's name) section...
maybe embroider in Wash's face at the helm....
definitely embroider on the Serenity name on the side...
but who knows if it'll get beyond the planning stages.

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse!

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 6:11 PM

BKEATING

Quote:
Originally posted by Volunteer:
I have 40,000 Legos ready to go!

Lol I love Legos! I had a trunk, prolly had 1 ft of legos in it. Of course my mom tossed them.

"I swallowed a bug"

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 6:14 PM

BKEATING

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
well...I'm still thinking about a 3-D Serenity pillow....
mostly gray, w/the blue reflector/solar panels (what are those things?)
and shiny yellow in the aft 'burn' (what gives the Firefly it's name) section...
maybe embroider in Wash's face at the helm....
definitely embroider on the Serenity name on the side...
but who knows if it'll get beyond the planning stages.

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse!

Well, I, like you, have an idea. Know what though. Forget this planning crap! Just get goin on it. Thats what im gonna do :)

"I swallowed a bug"

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Monday, October 24, 2005 11:43 AM

CHRISISALL

Already made a Serenity outta legos, but only needed about 40-50 of 'em (it weren't too big).
My kid liked it.

If nothing official comes out soon, I may have to do another out of cardboard ( before you go "What!?? " let me tell ya, you can make ANYTHING out of cardboard, plus Elmer's glue and tissues. You get the outside lookin' right with layers of cardboard glued to a cardboard frame, then stuff it with tissues all Elmered up, and when it dries, it's durable as steel, and good to play with! Acrylic paint is the final touch)

Chrisisall, the cardboard magician

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Monday, October 24, 2005 5:54 PM

BKEATING

Hehe you guys rock. Ima get "elmered up" hehe. I do agree though, you can make anything with enough Elmers glue :)...Reminds me of a star wars quote..."the force is like duct tape...it has a light side and a dark side ...and holds the uneverse together...or somethin like that"

"I swallowed a bug"

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Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:26 PM

JASMITH101

I've searched the net for a model and my search came up dry.

So, here are a few suggestions that may help you get started.

Get as many "hard copy" single frame shots of the ship as possible. Wide angles, "beauty shots," posters and what not. Go over them, but don't look at the ship as a whole, get in real close and check out the finer points and think about what they look like in other terms.

I think IMHO that the Serenity's engines look like the intakes of the engines on a passenger liner and the afterburners of a military jet fused together

You may find other bizzare similaritys along the lines of: The bridge windows look a bit like Cobra chopper windows laid flat.

The next part can be expensive, but it doesn't have to be. My Dad called it "Kit-Bashing." Basicly, that's where you are using a kit not for the finished model, but for a specific part to be used with another build. My Dad used to build modifyied hotrods the way full size rods would be. Model T kit, Corvette rear end, and so on. The best way to build up a supply of surplus kits is to frequent yard sales, swap meets, flea markets, salvage stores and the like. Another good source is the clearence bin or if your lucky a close out or going out of business sale. Some hobby shops like Games Workshop occasionaly hold damged goods auctions.

So, now we have a Goodyear blimp, a passenger liner, an F-1 race car, two F-18's and a helicopter sitting on our work bench. Put them together as you best see fit and have fun with the paint. For the finishing touches, the transfers from military models, especially the "danger blast area," ones from military jets. Those are allways fun. For some of the finer points, look into a company called "Detail Master." They have some truely amazing detailing parts. They primarily focus on model cars in the 1/24th variety, but don't let that stop you from checking out their scale rubber and braided hoses.

Lastly, to wrap this up, let me offer the best piece of advice any modeler can use. One that I've needed reminding of in the past:

A hobby is supposed to fun. If you find yourself becomming frustrated with it due to a difficulty, stop. You are doing yourself and the work you are creating no justice. Put it a way for a bit and think it over. When you come back to it, you will return with fresh insight that will most likely help you overcome your difficulties.

(Oh yeah, and watch out for those X-acto's, they're sharp!

)

"Look, you're only gonna scare him. . ."
"Pain is scary."

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Sunday, October 30, 2005 3:39 AM

DONCOAT

I have a friend who's a former professional modelbuilder (he made highly detailed aircraft models for wind tunnel testing, e.g.)

We've been discussing the possibility of doing a fairly large scale Serenity model (well, probably two). 1" to 10' gives a 17" model; but he's pushing for a larger scale -- maybe 3 feet.

In addition, I've contacted several other modelbuilders online about making me a Serenity under contract. I've gotten far enough to know that the project will be EXPENSIVE and time consuming -- one guy mentioned 14-16 months. The more detailed and complex the model (with illumination, moving parts, etc) the higher the cost.

One of these builders had an interesting idea: do not one, but several "kits" for Serenity, which could be passed along to other interested modelers to defray the cost. They would be a combination of styrene and resin parts, and not for the casual modeler. I'd guess they would not be highly detailed, just the basic structure that could then be detailed and finished.

I've ordered the "Stormbringer" 3D CAD model from www.3d-palace.com which should be a great resource for grabbing dimensions and making templates. It runs on the "3DS Max" CAD program, which I'm learning how to use.

Other issues: a Serenity model is really three models (Serenity and two shuttles). You have to decide whether to go with the TV Serenity or the movie Serenity or even the unusual variant seen in the movie (no plot spoiler!). You have to decide how much detail to try to include -- it never ends! You have to decide whether to try to include interiors (bridge, cargo hold, dining area). You have to decide whether you want a landed Firefly (with landing gear down) or a spaced Firefly (possibly with drive panels open), or one that can be shown either way.

In other words, this is not a small project! But I'm going to pursue it and see what I can come up with.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

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Saturday, November 12, 2005 5:13 PM

"I would like to make a model to scale. Also I would like to create the interior as well...lol.

I have gathered many great floorplans, 3d models, dimensions and such.

I also read that the ship was pretty much actually created in whole for the show (saw this on DVD special features or somethin). This leads me to beleive that it could be done.

I guess my question is:

Are other attempting to do this.

If so, I'd like to setup a thread/website or whatever for peeps interested in sharing ideas about this :)"

As it happens, I'm Attempting a Model in 1:72 Scale (will be roughly 80cm)

At the moment, my best Refference has been various Photos and Screen-Grabs, but if you have anything better, would you be able to Post them here, or do you have an E-Mail Address that we could swap Info with?? :-)

"Ah, the pitter patter of tiny feet in huge combat boots"

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Monday, November 14, 2005 9:11 AM

SMAUG

Doncoat and ME..

I would be interested in seeing where you are in your process of making a model.

I am also currently working on a model of Serenity.. both 3D and physical. My process is probably going to be a little different though, because I am working on a virtual 3D model that I plan on using to create a physical model. If you are familiar with 3D rapid prototyping, that is the path I am taking.

So what I will be creating is a 3D Serenity that can be rendered/animated, etc. But will then outsourced to a printing facility to literally "print" out the 3d data as a physical model. One such service is www.3darttopart.com. If you go to that site (there are many others) you can see examples of what I am talking about. The benefit to this is that the physical model will be as acurate/detailed as I make the 3D model. It will not be "textured" when it is printed, so it will still need to be "painted" which I might be able to do myself but I know there are people out there that would be much more talented at this than I am.. especially painting it so it shows all the wear and tear of space travel/etc. I can do that in 3D.. but not so much experience as physical doing it in the real world.

So I may be looking to partner with someone at that stage to paint the model.

I currently don't intend to have any working lights or anything on the model because of how that would complicate the model at this point. So that is an extra layer of complexity I don't plan on pursuing right now. But I am thinking of having a few moving parts such as having the engines being able to swivel and such. Although I haven't figured out how the hydralic on the underside of the "wings" work when the engines rotate. Actually I don't think it "does" mechanically work.. I think it's just there for show.

Actually the entire enterior could be modeled and printed to have an acutal representation of the entire ship.. but that's time I don't have right now. So I am just concentrating on the exterior, although I may model also just enough of the bridge and kitchen that you would see through the windows.

Anyway.. I don't have near enough time to work on it as I would like.. so I don't know how long it is going to take me. I am trying to put as much detail in it where I can.. and even adding some minor details where I think it is needed. And my first print out will probably be whatever the largest I can find a place that can print it all out in one piece. There seems to be new printers commming out every year that have a larger build volume than previous models. So I am thinking the first model I will print out will prbably be in the 10-14" long range. But I want to print it out as large as possible because the smaller I print it.. the more the tiny details will be lost becasue they are below the threshold of the printer. So the first print out will just be to test the 3d geometry to see if I need to add/change detail here or there. And then after any modifications that I need to make.. I will print it out much larger in pieces that I will assmble into a whole. That model I will probably try to make in the 3 foot long range.

Right now I only have the side engines modeled, so I still have a long way to go. When I have more I will try to post some progress images.

And also I am working on making some virtual 3d models of our BDH's.. to both create some images.. and to print out "statues"..

But that is going to take a while. I wish I had more time...

Smaug..

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Monday, November 14, 2005 1:17 PM

DAISYCUTTER

I have ties with the computer games modding community, and I'm hoping to catch somebodies attention into making a mod with firefly/serenity models in games such as battlefield2 or a space simulation or 2.

Imagine a VTOL in the shape of a firefly class vessel hovering above the battlefield "Go back in, or i'll blow a new crater into this tiny moon"

-------------------------------------
Q: Why don't we just raise the defensive shields?
A: A superb suggestion with just two major drawbacks. One, we don't have any defensive shields. And two, we don't have any defensive shields. Technically speaking thats only one flaw, but it was such a big one I thought I mention it twice.

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Monday, November 14, 2005 8:05 PM

STYROFOAMGUY

Hello

Newbie here but I have been hanging out mostly at the official site. I have spent the last 4 months working on my scratchbuild model. To say this is a complex model is an understatement

Here is my progress page
http://www.alexkung.com/scale/serenity/cmain.htm

My model will be 13 inches long when finished

I would like to see how others are doing.

Alex
Styrofoam Guy

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Monday, November 14, 2005 9:39 PM

JUKO

I know for a fact that there are a couple good folks over at StarshipModeler who are Firefly fans and trying just this. I believe there is at least one scratchbuild and one card model of Serenity in progress. Whether or not anyone will actually kit a resin garage model, hard to say. I know there are people that can be commissioned to scratchbuild and kit a model, so I presume if there was enough interest, someone would be willing to do so.

Does Blue Sun sponser the Blue Man Group?

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Monday, November 14, 2005 11:44 PM

>I would be interested in seeing where you are in your process of making a model.

At the moment, I've made the Side Engines (no Detail, just the Structure), and I've started on the Bottom of the Fuselage

>I currently don't intend to have any working lights or anything on the model because of how that would complicate the model at this point.

Considering the Scale that I'm Working in, I would be Foolish not to at least Attempt to put Lights in the Model

To that end, I've already Bought (hopefully) all the Lights that I'll be needing....which, as you can probably imagine, is the most expensive part of the Model....cost me $90 in Lights alone!!

>But I am thinking of having a few moving parts such as having the engines being able to swivel and such. Although I haven't figured out how the hydralic on the underside of the "wings" work when the engines rotate.

Likewise I'll be trying to do that as well....

The 'Hydraulic' will be a bit of a Problem though

As will the 'Rotating Lights' before the Main Engine....might leave that one alone

>Actually the entire enterior could be modeled and printed to have an acutal representation of the entire ship.

I'll be wanting to have Interior Detail where I can....Skills Permitting

>But that's time I don't have right now.

Hey....it's not as if I'll be finished this Model anytime soon

I'd say it could take me a year or two....I'm in no big Rush

>I am trying to put as much detail in it where I can.. and even adding some minor details where I think it is needed.

That's my Plan too :-)

>And my first print out will probably be whatever the largest I can find a place that can print it all out in one piece.

What I did was take that Interior Chart with the Colours, which says the Ship is 190 Feet, Calculate how big that would be in 1:72 Scale, take the Pictures I have (Standard Views in Photos....Top, Bottom, Side, Front, Rear) and Enlage them Accordingly onto A-3

I managed to utilise the Colour Printer at Work when the Boss wasn't looking, which saved me A HEAP in Colour Copying!!

>And then after any modifications that I need to make.. I will print it out much larger in pieces that I will assmble into a whole. That model I will probably try to make in the 3 foot long range.

Sounds roughly the same as mine....mine will be 80cm (about 2' 8")

>Right now I only have the side engines modeled, so I still have a long way to go. When I have more I will try to post some progress images.

If I had a DigiCam, I'd try and Post the 'Progressive Shots', but at the moment, as I don't even have a 35ml, I'm using a Crappy Disposable :-(

>And also I am working on making some virtual 3d models of our BDH's.. to both create some images.. and to print out "statues".. But that is going to take a while. I wish I had more time...

What I would really like for this Model are a Set of Miniatures of the Crew in 1:72 (25mm) Scale

ME

"Ah, the pitter patter of tiny feet in huge combat boots"

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 4:14 AM

SMAUG

Styrofoamguy...

AWSOME!!!! It looks like it's comming along pretty well. I will be interested in watching the progress. Since you are building it from ground up as a physical model.. which is more difficult.. getting the overall mass of the ship modeled? Or adding all the little details?

The digital model I am working on won't be a whole lot different than the wireframes you got from Treybor.

Treybor.. if you are out there.. have you thought about printing out a physical model from your 3d model??

ME..

If you get your hands on a digital camera I would be interested in seeing your progress..

Once I am done with the ship.. I can continue working on models of the BDH's.. so printing out little statues of them wouldn't be a problem. But at 1/72 scale.. what.. that would make them only about an inch tall?? That might be too small to retain enough detail to really even know who it is.. I don't know. Maybe we will see..

Smaug..

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 4:36 AM

STYROFOAMGUY

SMAUG

Using Treybors wireframe was a big help to get me started. However as I get down to the finer details I have noticed little errors in his file. I am not knocking his file since it is very well done considering the limited information he had and I do recommend it to people as a good starting point but there are a few very subtle points I had to correct on my model.

Most people would not even notice but I did since I am building it.

I have found the hardest part so far is matching the left and right side of the ship at the nose and neck area. I can look at something a dozen times, it will look fine but I can then look at it one more time and something is out. Once the main mass is done correctly I think the small details should be no problem.

I think a physical model is a bit easier then a computer generated model for me. Trying to view 3D items in 2D doesn't always give me an accurate idea if the image if correct or not.

The people at Starship Modeller know about Treybors mesh. I do not know if they have taken it to be prototyped but there were comments that the mesh has to be constructed a certain way for it to work properly in one of those SLA machines.

I hear that construction of that file is the most labour intensive part of the process. Also the parts should be orientated a certain way to obtain the best results. There are limitations to the rapid prototyping process and the finished product has to tbe reworked to get a nice finish.

The SLA process will give you little steps. Think of trying to make a ball out of lego.

For the rotating engine lights I am looking for a LED chase circuit board that is small enough that I can put in that area. I can replace the LEDs with white ones I have. Not 100% accurate but it will hopefully give me the effect I want. It would also have no moving parts.

I hope to finish it before 2006

Alex
Styrofoam Guy

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 6:39 AM

SMAUG

Quote:
the mesh has to be constructed a certain way for it to work properly in one of those SLA machines.

Yes.. I have printed 3d models before and have physically seen many samples. Basically the 3d model needs to be "watertight". You can't have any holes or edges that arn't connected, etc. These things may not make a difference if there is a gap between two edges so small that you will never see it when rendered, but when 3D printing.. that minisucle gap will be a problem. If you know this while building the model.. it's not that big of a deal.. it is just to make sure each part and piece is solid and all parts are truely connected.

Quote:
Also the parts should be orientated a certain way to obtain the best results.

Basically you just orient the pieces so that you can fit the largest number of them within the same build volume so that the pieces can print faster. The only other issue is that of large parts/pieces sagging, but most current software will automatically build support structures under any larger pieces to keep them from doing this.

Quote:
There are limitations to the rapid prototyping process and the finished product has to tbe reworked to get a nice finish. The SLA process will give you little steps. Think of trying to make a ball out of lego.

Have you seen them recenlty though? The resolution of the printers has increased every year. True on a smooth curved surface.. it isn't goign to come out of the machine "pefectly" smooth.. but it's nothing like it was built out of legos or anything.

Unless you consider that each lego is only like 1/600 of an inch tall or something

And with just minimal sanding and then a coat of paint.. I have held printed part that I couldn't tell where not molded plastic/metal etc.

Actually there is a new 3d printer that can print parts in 24 bit color.. so they come out of the machine with whatever color/texture/etc. you would wish them to be.. no painting necissary. Although I will still probably look to to paint (or have painted) the model myself rather that do it that way..

Oh.. and about discrepancies.. since Serenity doesn't actually exist of course, I don't think there is one "difinitive" Serenity. I am sure there are probably slight differences from the 3D CGI Serentity to the life size props/models they have built.. and probably differnces from one episode to antoher... one shot to another.. the show to the movie.. etc. etc. etc. etc. Not that it makes a difference because no one is really going to notice when Serenity is typical only on screen for a few seconds at a time.

I am convinced at this point that this hydralic piston under the wings is a physical impossiblity, unless it can be disconnected and retracted. But if it can do that.. why is it needed in the first place? It's probably something that just "looked cool" or looked like it belonged. BUT they needed the engines to be able to rotate and someone probably pointed out that the piston thing can't work like that.. and then someone else said.. "but it looks cool.. so we will just fake it when the engine rotates"

Smaug..

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 10:39 AM

LOSTEARTHMOTHER

Others have mentioned the discussion over on the official board at:

[url] http://browncoats.serenitymovie.com/serenity/index.html?fuseaction=for
um.viewtopic&t=24523&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0[/url]

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 10:54 AM

LOSTEARTHMOTHER

double post. Oops.

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 5:11 PM

STYROFOAMGUY

SMAUG

I am obviously not as experienced as you with the rapid prototyping since I have not done any parts at all. I wish I was good at that stuff. That is why I buy lotto tickets so I could buy my own machine

It is a very useful tool that I can see using in the future.

I can't wait to see your progress.

Alex
Styrofoam Guy

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Wednesday, November 16, 2005 4:24 AM

SMAUG

Quote:
It is a very useful tool that I can see using in the future.

I don't think it's going to be THAT long before small desktop 3d printers will be rather affordable. If you consider that RP machines cost a couple million 10+ years ago. Then 5-10 years ago they were 500K. Now there are machines that are below 30K. I actually just read an article yesterday where someone was working on making a RP machine that can PRINT copies of itself!!!!

Talk about science fiction!!

So if it works, once the first one is made.. making additional ones will simply be a matter of raw material and printing time! I wouldn't be suprised if in the next 5 years we see a desktop 3D printer within the 2-5K range. Of course its build volume will be smaller than the more expensive machines and it won't be the fastest printer in the world.. but at that price point it will certainly be within the reach of the prosumer/hobbiest, and I think the price will only continue to drop from that.

I am actually suprised it's not dropping even faster. There are different RP technologies.. but the most basic one (glue/poweder machines) aren't THAT much more complicated than an inkjet printer. Actually one model from one manufacturer that I witnessed a demonstration actually uses HP printheads. You put in a new HP printhead and the machine blows out the black ink and then replaces it with the "glue" that it uses and that is how it prints.

For those of you that have never seen this technology before. Imagine if you have your inkjet printer print the letter "A" on a sheet of paper.. now have it print that letter A over and over again exactly on top of itself, thousands of times and with each pass the inkjet head moves up (or the paper moves down) the thickness of one layer of ink. Now if the ink would hold its form.. you can imagine how that character "A" would start to build itself up into a 3D object.. one tiny layer at a time. This is basically how one (of the few) RP technologies work.

Another amazing thing about it is that working "machines" can be printed and come out of the printer with no assembly required. I have seen machine with gears and all kinds of working parts.. that actually turned and worked.. right out of the machine!!!

It's pretty amazing.

Another side note.. I also know there is one researcher who is building a machine on a LARGE scale... and it uses concrete to build with. The idea is to be able to build the structure of a home or building.. in a single day. So basically it would be like pouring the foundation, and framing a house. All in one day. All the cutouts and stuff for electrical/HVAC would be in place.. and your are not limited by shape. The machine can create vaulted ceiling.. domes... just about any shape you can dream up (doesn't mean it's structurally sound though

) and will be able to do an entire typcial sized home in one day. You then just go in and finish it... meaning flooring/drywall/etc. Of course if there are any walls/floors that you don't mind being concrete.. you can leave them like that.. either bare or painted. But basically it takes the entire foundation/framing of a structure and can do it in one day!!!

It's amazing to see his prototype machine in action!! This guy is even working with NASA.. because they see the possibility of dumping one of these machines off on another planet... having it dig into the ground for it's raw materials.. and then "print" out a spacebase all on it's own!!

But anyway... don't mean to ramble on.. but it's just such an amazing technology.. it does seem like science fiction!!

I have the engine modeled.. and am working on the "wing". So when I get a little more done than that I will try to post my progress..

Smaug..

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Wednesday, November 16, 2005 5:23 AM

STYROFOAMGUY

SMAUG

No worries as I like reading about this stuff. Yeah I am waiting for that day when I can get a desktop model. For me there will be a tang of regret.

I am used to doing things with my hands and this process will make that skill less important. Similar to how CG has replaced a lot of the model builders for the SFX industry.

I do recall the small roland scanner and CNC milling machine. However that was ages ago and before I had enough funds to purchase one.

I am also surprised that the technology has not become affordable yet. Maybe it is a conspiracy like the oil industries stopping the electric cars from being mass produced

I have an inkjet printer that can print on DVDs. This means it has to accurately raise and lower the print head. All the technology is there. The only thing that maybe holding it back is the fact that there may not be enough practical applications to develop the technology.

Most people do not need to print out 3D items. Maybe one day

Tea… Earl Grey…Hot…

Alex
Styrofoam Guy

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Friday, November 18, 2005 11:21 AM

Greetings All :-D

For all that are interested, I've just started a Serenity Model Group :-D

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Modelling_Serenity/

Cheers

ME

"Ah, the pitter patter of tiny feet in huge combat boots"

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