Copyright issues? by smiletenshi

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

POSTED BY: SMILETENSHI
UPDATED: Friday, November 18, 2005 03:17
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VIEWED: 3199
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Thursday, November 17, 2005 3:03 AM

Here's hoping someone here knows about this!

Anyway, I'm writing because I'm concerned about what is/is not politically correct in terms of publishing. If the stories, which are fanfiction of Firefly, are published - am I overstepping any copyright boundaries? Is it possible to write a disclaimer at the front of the formatted book - so-and-so does not own these characters, only the words, phrases and situations are their own, etc - and legally publish it?

Thanks. Can't wait to see if it's possible! :)

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Thursday, November 17, 2005 3:24 AM

KNIBBLET

Fanfic seems to be ignored by TPTB. Label it with the usual disclaimers and you'll be fine.

If you intend to write a novel, you would want to take a look at the "Serenity" novelization and see who published it. You'll have to deal with them and trust me, you'll want to do that before you go to the effort of writing a book they'll never touch.

KRAD is a member of this board - he wrote the Serenity novelization. He might be able to provide more specific guidance.

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/MN-Firefly/ Big Damn Shindigity Good Time
http://www.fireflytalk.com - Big Damn Podcast

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Thursday, November 17, 2005 4:11 AM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION

If it is just something you are doing for yourself and a few friends read it, I doubt there will be issues. It is when you try to publish it that there will be a problem.

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Thursday, November 17, 2005 4:26 AM

LIMEYBROWNSTOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by smiletenshi:
Joss Stone's Firefly series

lol, listening to her when writing this by any chance? =)

Anyway, I definitely agree with Knibblet, KRAD is the man to speak to. He's quite a recognised writer though, so it may be more tricky for you if you're just breaking into the business. But hey, if KRAD did it then at least it is possible.

----------==/^\==----------

'Faster! Faster would be better!' - Capt. Mal Reynolds

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Thursday, November 17, 2005 5:04 AM

SMILETENSHI

Quote:
Originally posted by LimeyBrownStoat:
Quote:
Originally posted by smiletenshi:
Joss Stone's Firefly series

Thanks. I see the error now. I had written another company to get a second opinion and accidentally left that in there. As if I need to educate all of you on what the heck "Firefly" is.

Anywho, yes, it would be publicized, but not by a major printing company. It's not like I'm planning on taking it to my home printer and binding it myself. I want someplace else to do it, and that's why I'm wondering about copyright infringements. Otherwise I'd have already done it.

Thanks for your input... now I'll just hope that "KRAD" reads this thread and posts.

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Thursday, November 17, 2005 7:05 AM

STAKETHELURK

Joss has said he doesn’t really care if the fans make their own merchandise and sell it to other fans, since the studios aren’t providing any, but I don’t know if that extends to fanfiction (probably not, since there will be more novels and you’d be competing with them). However, I strongly believe that if the studios catch you selling fanfiction, they will land on you like a ton of bricks. Doesn’t matter how small scale it is, it’s still a threat to their copyright and they are very protective about those. Especially in a case where ancillary products could prove to be a major and vital source of revenue, such as with Firefly/Serenity. Indeed, some studios are so paranoid about fanfiction that they try (or tried) to crush even the free online version.

As others have said, I hope KRAD can drop by and give you more informed advice, but all my instincts are telling me this is a bad idea. And I should note that franchise novels never go to novices; KRAD and the writers who submitted manuscripts for the upcoming novels are all established science fiction writers with proven track records. So, I doubt you can convince the studios to let you have a go, as others have implied. Really, put this on hold or you could get in some very hot legal water.

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Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:54 AM

SMILETENSHI

Won't make a move until someone gives me proof that I'd be okay.

Thanks :)

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Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:23 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
Joss has said he doesn’t really care if the fans make their own merchandise and sell it to other fans, since the studios aren’t providing any,

actually as I recall a lot of the merchandise that had sprung up after Fox canceled 'Firefly'
and before Universal okayed 'Serenity' was shut down by Universal once they opened their own website.

They closed down a lot of cafe press sites that were selling merchandise using copyright protected terms...
but of course fans got around it by then creating MORE merchandise which avoided using copyrighted terms....

When Joss was asked about it he said:
'well I don't get any money from that, and I look at is as free advertising'

but I can assure you that as soon as you start selling anything that Universal owns, then you'll have a fight on your hands!

BTW if you want to ask KRAD directly you can always send him a message on his user page...

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse,
and have you joined the Browncoats yet?
http://browncoats.serenitymovie.com/serenity/?fuseaction=tools.invlink
&u=embers&linkID=36

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Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:58 AM

VERMIN

"Anyway, I'm writing because I'm concerned about what is/is not politically correct in terms of publishing. If the stories, which are fanfiction of Firefly, are published - am I overstepping any copyright boundaries? Is it possible to write a disclaimer at the front of the formatted book - so-and-so does not own these characters, only the words, phrases and situations are their own, etc - and legally publish it?"

I've been writing for a number of years and I'm involved in a professionally oriented writing group. So, I'm fairly familiar with publishing/copywright issues.

Bottom line: Fanfiction, by definition, is a copywright infringement. By using characters Joss created, a writer is infringing on his intellectual property. Unless someone has express consent from Joss (like the guy who did the novelization or the screen writers who worked on the show) they cannot use his characters.

Fanfiction still exists, however, but the idea is that since no one is making money off of it, it's not worth the time/expense to press charges. Also, a lot of times fanfiction can help spread the word about a book/film/show and I think that might play a role in the laxness of pushing the issue-not to mention that it's so widespread in some cases that finding the fanfic. writers becomes a daunting task.

So, to answer your question. Joss owns copywright on the characters themselves. Unless you get his permission, you should not publish your fanfiction. Then they can prove you're making $ from Joss's property and there could be legal charges.

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Thursday, November 17, 2005 5:21 PM

SMILETENSHI

Hm. Thanks Vermin. This is what CafePress (honestly, the place I was thinking of going to publish those books) wrote me:

"Dear Tenshi,

Thank you for contacting CafePress.com!

Please be clearly advised that you retain any and all rights in and to any content that you upload through the CafePress.com service. Please read the CafePress.com Terms of Service and the Shopkeeper Agreement, both of which make it clear that you would retain any and all rights you may have in and to the content that you upload. However, you do grant CafePress.com a limited license, which enables us to create and market your products. Further in the interest of protecting intellectual property rights we have our Intellectual Property Policy http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/help/iprights.aspx in dealing with issues of infringement. Also, with regard to posting your copyright information on books or in your shop, many of our shopkeepers do so as a safety measure and it is recommended. For more information regarding our Content Usage Policy please visit http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/help/cup.aspx. For more information regarding copyright we suggest you visit the U.S. Copyright Office at www.copyright.gov. We look forward to your unique additions to the CafePress.com Marketplace.

Please feel free to contact us if you have additional questions or concerns.

Best Regards,

Brian D. L.
CafePress.com Support Associate "

I think I just got an "We don't know." and shuffled off to those other website links.
Dang it all.

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Thursday, November 17, 2005 6:51 PM

KAYLEEWANNABEE

Quote:
Originally posted by vermin:
Bottom line: Fanfiction, by definition, is a copywright infringement. By using characters Joss created, a writer is infringing on his intellectual property. Unless someone has express consent from Joss (like the guy who did the novelization or the screen writers who worked on the show) they cannot use his characters.

Yup, this is pretty much the case. I'm on the board of our local Public Relations Society of America, and last month's guest speaker was a lawyer who specializes in intellectual property. Here's a direct quote from her presentation:

"You may not claim copyright in any material borrowed from another source. By the same token, the unauthorized use of copyrightable materials that were not generated by you or your company may give rise to a claim of copyright infringement....Copyright may be transferred from one party to another only by an express, written assignment." (I'm not a lawyer, so please don't take this as legal advice from me...I'm just passing along what she told us.)

And you don't get "charged" with copyright infringement, you just get sued. And if you're found to have infringed, the penalties can be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars (if I'm remembering correctly).

However, it's the copyright owners option whether or not to initiate legal action against an infringer. Oftentimes it's not worth their time or money to pursue little infringers. And sometimes, I'm convinced, copyright infringement (like the kind that happens on websites like this) is simply accepted as "volunteer marketing."

-----
It's my job to incite powerful yearning in the hearts and loins of my clients. No, silly, I'm not a Companion...I work at an advertising agency.

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Thursday, November 17, 2005 7:37 PM

SAMEERTIA

As someone who works in the book industry.
Don't go there.

You want to print up a fanfiction newsletter for fun, go for it.
But charging money (above and beyond printing costs) for it means you're making money off of someone elses intellectual property.

I write in the Highlander genre, as well, and we tried some years back to get a fanfiction anthology published and failed to get permission from Davis/Anderson. The closest I can come to the mess it was is to quote Wash; "It's all these twists and culdesacs - it's wild."

Do a newsletter type printing to share with friends. Far less legal hassle.

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Friday, November 18, 2005 3:17 AM

SMILETENSHI

Well, no, that isn't the point.
I'm not looking to make money off of this. I'm planning on getting one print of each as a christmas present for the friend who wrote them... because nothing's cooler than seeing what you wrote in an actual bound edition.

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