Joss contacts Sci-Fi UK with correct running order by SimonF

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Joss contacts Sci-Fi UK with correct running order

POSTED BY: SIMONF
UPDATED: Thursday, June 19, 2003 13:41
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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 1:13 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/news/cult/2003/06/18/5161.shtml

Firefly schedule released

Fans of Joss Whedon's Firefly will be interested to hear that the Sci Fi Channel has announced details of its schedule for the rest of the series.

There has been some debate over the correct
running order of the series, caused by the fact that some episodes have not yet been shown anywhere in the world.

Fortunately creator Joss Whedon has contacted the channel with the correct order. Apparently, he is taken a keen interest in how the show is performing on Sci Fi. No doubt a successful run on Sci Fi would greatly improve his chances of getting a film off the ground.

Here is the correct running order.

Monday 23rd June at 9pm Ep 8 - Jaynestown (UK TV Premiere)
Monday 30th June at 9pm Ep 9 - Out Of Gas (UK TV Premiere)
Monday 7th July at 9pm Ep 10 - Ariel (UK TV Premiere)
Monday 14th July at 9pm Ep 11 - War Stories (UK TV Premiere)
Monday 21st July at 9pm Ep 12 - Trash (World TV Premiere)
Monday 28th July at 9pm Ep 13 - The Message (World TV Premiere)
Monday 4th Aug at 9pm Ep 14 - Heart Of Gold (World TV Premiere)
Monday 11th Aug at 9pm Ep 15 - Objects Of Space (UK TV Premiere - Series Finale)

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 2:12 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Well that settles that.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 2:48 AM

DRAKON

Okay then if that is the order, I am confused.

How come Jayne can casually mention that River is a "mind reading genius" in "The Message" and then is surprised by the possibility that she is later on in OIS?

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 2:54 AM

MANZO

Maybe that's the addition that Tim Minear mentioned on the Buffistas board:

http://www.buffistas.org/showthread.php?thread_id=46&post_id=9264

Joss made a minor adjustment in "Objects" when we aired it, and restored said change for the DVD order.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 3:36 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by Drakon:
Okay then if that is the order, I am confused.

How come Jayne can casually mention that River is a "mind reading genius" in "The Message" and then is surprised by the possibility that she is later on in OIS?

You're not the only one. I think that when the changed the order (the order acording to the scripts was War Stories, Heart of Gold, Objects in Space, Trash, The Message ) they forgot to edit some things.

Quote:
Originally posted by manzo:
Maybe that's the addition that Tim Minear mentioned on the Buffistas board:

http://www.buffistas.org/showthread.php?thread_id=46&post_id=9264

Joss made a minor adjustment in "Objects" when we aired it, and restored said change for the DVD order.

I don't think so, although Jayne could have not been surprised that she was psychic in OiS (that being the change) the entire thing about him talking about the steak knife (quite a bit of the start of OiS) wouldn't fit if Trash had already happened. He immediately shuts up about it the moment the possibility River knew he had betrayed her came up.

Also River says to Jayne that she can kill him with her mind (in Trash), the conversation that is a reference to is in OiS. There are other examples of how it doesn’t fit that I posted other places. The point is that a single adjustment in OiS would account for the glitches in continuity. Just about the entire first 16 minutes is referenced in either Trash or The Message or presents an indirect continuity problem (except for the gun bit.) Considering that the episodes run about 44 minutes I don’t think a change to all of that would be the minor adjustment he makes mention of.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 5:19 AM

HARBATKIN

Quote:
Monday 14th July at 9pm Ep 11 - War Stories (UK TV Premiere)
Monday 21st July at 9pm Ep 12 - Trash (World TV Premiere)
Monday 28th July at 9pm Ep 13 - The Message (World TV Premiere)
Monday 4th Aug at 9pm Ep 14 - Heart Of Gold (World TV Premiere)
Monday 11th Aug at 9pm Ep 15 - Objects Of Space (UK TV Premiere - Series Finale)

I hate be one to argue with Joss but I have to say that by the episode versions I've seen this order doesn't make much sense to me. Of course we don't know at what point in the process the versions we've got were editied. With the mismatched set of Fox aired eps and unaired production copies we have, and with Fox changing the order around so much, who knows what kind of edits and changes were made to each episode and at what time. The episode versions for the DVD may be waaaay different than the ones we've seen. IMO, with the eps I have, the continuity flows best in the following order:

War Stories
Heart Of Gold
Objects In Space
Trash
The Message

Except for the overly dramatic ending (Inara) in HOG and the not so dramatic, ho-hum resolution at the begining of OIS, everything else fits together well. Personally until I see the DVD or the episode versions that will run in the UK, this is my veiwing order. I'm not saying one order is right or another order is wrong. Everyone should watch them in whatever order they think fits best in there opinion. I think it's really neat how everyone sees the plotlines flow so differently.

...like a trained ape, without the training

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 5:19 AM

SUCCATASH

I am also still a bit boggled.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:20 AM

HJERMSTED

So this means Kaylee will not have come clean with the rest of the crew about what she saw River do (at the end of 'War Stories') until the fourth episode after the fact rather than the second.

I'll be a bit disappointed if the Kaylee/River developments are somehow disrupted by these seemingly new episode order decisions.

I have this strange feeling Joss just wants the last lines of the Firefly DVD set to be "Well... here I am..." because otherwise 'Objects in Space' sure seems out of place at the tail end of the series.

mattro

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:36 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

I'm with Harbatkin on this one (as if it wasn't obvious.) That’s the only way continuity is maintained. The only issue I had with that order was that HoG didn’t seem to flow into OiS but that’s the way it is regardless so I say HoG OiS Trash The Message unless the DVD or British episodes are significantly different.

Still, each to their own.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone actually seen any news that says this is the order?

I know that they changed it, and that is what they changed it to, but the story about Joss being the one to say this is the order only appears (to my knowledge) on http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/news/cult/2003/06/18/5161.shtml

This news is in fact “News, gossip and events from the world of cult tv” now that doesn’t seem like a reliable source to me. If Sci Fi (UK) got a call from Joss saying this is the right order don’t you think they would say so and not leave it to a gossip place to spread the word? I checked their Firefly site and didn’t see anything about it.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 2:42 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

I'm bumping this because I still don't know. Is there any news from a credible source that says it was Joss who said this was the right order? If we assume the order is right (not a hard assumption, Tim said so) there is still no reason to believe Joss said this was the right order. Could be some clerk at mutant enemy did, could be Tim did, could be a lackey for Joss did, or it could even be that they read it off the message board Tim posted at.

It’s not really all that important but I have to wonder if Joss really did call up and say, “The right order is…” or if the gossip site simply made it up when the order changed.

(By the way, I still think the HoG, OiS, Trash, The Message order makes more sense. I'm simply taking their word that the right order isn't the one that seems sensible.)

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 3:26 PM

EMBASSY

For me, it's hard to imagine that the villain in "Heart of Gold" would produce a laser weapon without some of the crew of Serenity saying, "Gee, Captain, sure would be great if we had us one of those fancy rayguns," or some similar acknowledgment. A throwaway line like that would be, I think, obligatory, if "The Message" and "Trash" did in fact precede "Heart of Gold."

It's possible that the edit that Tim Minnear mentioned would be related to Jayne's "Can we move this conversation in a not-Jayne's-fault direction?" exchange with Mal early in "Objects in Space." There's already good continuity with "Heart of Gold" from Inara's line to Mal in "Objects in Space," "I don't know why I haven't left already."

If that guess is correct, then maybe continuity works. Maybe. I'm going to have to look at the three unaired episodes again for a look at Kaylee's attitude to River.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 4:16 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

The problems that I see don't have to do with Heart of Gold, the have to do with the relationship between Trash and The Message with Objects in Space.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 4:27 PM

CFENRING

We know that Mal, Jayne, Simon and River know what Jayne did. I don't believe we know what the rest of them know, or even if Mal knows that Simon and River do. We do, however, know that Jayne appears to have some sense of shame about what he did.

Or maybe the "Joss liked the 'Well... here I am...' ending better.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 4:28 PM

SERENITYVALLEY

This is a dumb question, but are those dates just for the UK?

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?" -Wash
"I told him to sit down," -Simon

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:12 PM

TVDIR

I'm confused, too. We know that there were two more episodes shot and posted following the Fox's hiatus annoucement, and they made that announcement on the same week that OIS aired, which was a week before the 2-hour pilot aired on Fox. Hmmm. I guess Joss wanted to end with OIS and moved it with Heart of Gold.

The only other thing could be: Joss and co. originally had OIS to be in that running order slot, but because of Fox meddling they moved up the production of that episode. Maybe??? Therefore, shooting Trash and The Message after the hiatus annoucement.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 10:36 PM

MANZO

Quote:
Originally posted by SerenityValley:
This is a dumb question, but are those dates just for the UK?

'Fraid so!

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Thursday, June 19, 2003 4:10 AM

ZIKZAK

There be spoilers here!

Well, we all know that the order was SUPPOSED to be:
War Stories
Heart of Gold
Objects in Space
Trash
The Message

Followed by the rest of the season. That's how the episodes were numbered, and that makes sense with the general flow of the episodes.

The hiatus, ordering extra eps, and cancellation messed up that stream since none of those episodes were really meant to be "the end". After War Stories, Firefly's future looked uncertain, and there was only time to air one more episode before the pilot and Christmas break. After that, it was unclear if the remaining three would be shown.

They couldn't use Trash or The Message, since these are quite linked. Certainly, The Message wouldn't have worked alone. And Trash, though fun, just isn't right to be the last episode.

So it came down to Heart of Gold and Objects in Space as the final aired episode. I think they made the right choice.

Now that the DVD and UK are happening, they can revisit the order. We can assume that Trash and Message are glued together like Shindig and Safe. It looks like Heart and Objects are kind of pasted together with the "haven't left" line, and the fact that they were supposed to be aired in that order.

So the question is whether the Heart/Objects pair comes before or after the Trash/Message pair. Heart/Objects is deeper, bleaker, and more meaningful, so I can see moving them to the end. If there were more episodes made, they would CERTAINLY go before Trash/Message, but there you have it.

So rather than having the series end with a couple of less meaningful eps, we have it ending with a couple of more meaningful eps. And even though the continuity doesn't quite work right, that's how it'll be.

I still like the original order, and refuse to believe the series is over. My troubles with this order:
- River's psychicness is revealed in Objects and taken for granted three eps earlier in Trash
- River's shootin' skills are kept in Kaylee's head for 3 eps instead of 1
- The Lassiter is forgotten after the mention in The Message
- Mal's "pass out" kiss comment in Heart loses impact after Trash
- Having two eps in a row end with a funeral is kind of odd

Ped Xing

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Thursday, June 19, 2003 5:43 AM

HJERMSTED

Quote:
I still like the original order, and refuse to believe the series is over. My troubles with this order:
- River's psychicness is revealed in Objects and taken for granted three eps earlier in Trash
- River's shootin' skills are kept in Kaylee's head for 3 eps instead of 1
- The Lassiter is forgotten after the mention in The Message
- Mal's "pass out" kiss comment in Heart loses impact after Trash
- Having two eps in a row end with a funeral is kind of odd

Ped Xing

Great concise points that agree with 100%!!

I doubt very much JW is somehow oblivious to these details. I also doubt that Joss would lord over an ill-conceived cut and paste job (adding scenes here, cutting dialog there -- or otherwise messing with the work handed in by the various writers and directors) in order to alter the continuity that had been established just so the series can end with 'Objects in Space' instead of 'The Message'. That would be silly.

Personally, I'm not counting on knowing the true episode order until I am holding the Firefly DVD box set in my eager hands.

Backing out of this debate until that time.

mattro

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Thursday, June 19, 2003 6:49 AM

NIGHTTRAIN

Quote:
River's shootin' skills are kept in Kaylee's head for 3 eps instead of 1

-I dont know. Kayle really did not want to mention what river had done because she did not want get river in trouble. I could see how she would want to keep it a secret.

Quote:
- The Lassiter is forgotten after the mention in The Message

True. But so were the goods from arial so i dont see it as too much of a problem. We can just assume they sold the lassiter and spent the money on ship repairs, food, etc.

Quote:
Mal's "pass out" kiss comment in Heart loses impact after Trash

- no it doesn't. Its still Hi-larious.

Quote:
Having two eps in a row end with a funeral is kind of odd

not at all deaths always happen in 3's

Quote:
River's psychicness is revealed in Objects and taken for granted three eps earlier in Trash

- this is the only one i cant really explain. But if Heart of gold goes in the # 10 spot then theres nothing to explain why inara hasn't left and hasn't even mentioned it for 3 full episodes. And my final arguement is that Joss has given us the real order. So give it up and blindly follow what joss says like we all should!!!

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Thursday, June 19, 2003 1:41 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Once again I started to type up a response and life called me away for a few hours. So if this seems a bit off, sorry.

The story that Joss called up Sci Fi UK and said this is the right order is made up. Sorry people, but it wasn’t Joss. However one of the people at Sci Fi UK did say that someone did call, and that this was one of Joss’ people. (This was not in a release or anything official however, just a Q and A thing on a forum.) However the way it was stated was that this was not a major factor in the decision to change the order. (That is me interpreting.)

The reason that I say it was not a major factor is the reasons for the change were three, the first one was that there was speculation on the part of the staff, another was that in a particular thread people asked for the order to be changed and said that the one to change it to was the one Tim said. The other reason was of course the Joss’s person contacting them. The way it was presented seemed to me to imply that the thread was the important one. Regardless of whether I’m right on that the Joss’ person contacting them was not presented as any more important than the fans on the thread or staff speculation.

He (or maybe she) went on to say that they checked the episodes themselves and this was the order they decided on.

Ok, so my theory that this might not be the order Joss wanted is really weak, but this makes me wonder. If I were working at Sci Fi UK and Joss called me up and said, “Hey the order’s wrong, it should be…” I would say that, I would change the order, and I would watch the episodes in the right order. What I would not do is keep my mouth shut about it, change the order and leave everyone guessing why, and watch the episodes not in that order to make sure Joss wasn’t wrong. I would trust Joss and not make a point of later saying, “I made sure it was right,” because people would laugh at me for hearing from joss it was right and trusting him so little that I had verify it.

Now as I said it wasn’t Joss who did the calling, but how much less do you have to trust someone to have the mentality that says, “I have to watch this now not because I want to see it in the right order but because I think the person telling me might be wrong”?

If they couldn’t trust that person who told them I have to ask, “Why should I?”

If they got this order from one of Joss’ people, the only ones who know the correct one, then why didn’t they come out and say it’s official? Why say “The changes were due to speculation not just by ourselves, but with the feedback on this thread,” and not just, “This is the correct order straight from Joss’ guys”?

It might have become apparent to you that at this point I’m more confused with how the person at Sci Fi UK responded than I am about the episode order. It just seems like they took the absolute strangest way to say what they said, and that makes me doubt what they’re saying.

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