Theory on why Fox cancelled Firefly by killerbrain

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Theory on why Fox cancelled Firefly

POSTED BY: KILLERBRAIN
UPDATED: Thursday, December 1, 2005 21:25
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 7224
PAGE 1 of 1

Tuesday, November 29, 2005 12:08 PM

Maybe this has been said before... I'm new here. Saw the movie on opening day, then got the dvd and watched the series. And over Thanksgiving converted my brother and brother in law.

The series came out not long after 9/11. Fox is pro-government. Don't you think a series about a band of criminals, the government being bad, etc, would set off the Fox execs? If that Reilly guy got hold of the idea he would set off a tirade on what's wrong with America.

I'll bet someone talked to someone and didn't explain anything more than a mis-guided pitch on how it was a show about criminals (or maybe even called them terrorists). Once this bad-mouthing got around execs got cold feet and cancelled it.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:11 PM

PHAEDRA

Really I thought it was because Fox Execs drowned puppies, ate babies, and worshiped Satan! But I guess a wave of neuvo right wing idealogues could have also killed the show. But when you consider the other "liberal" shows fox carries like the Simpsons, then the theory becomes questionable. I'm afraid at the end it all boils down to the almighty dollar.

Phaedra (a bad luck name)

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:33 PM

LFO

Honestly, I feel like I was raised on ANTI-corporate propoganda - for some reason, entertainment corporations don't seem to mind producing shows/music/etc that attack themselves.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:43 PM

TRAINEEALTERNATE

Don't get me started on Fox.

1) Firefly got off to a bad start

2) Advertising it as a sci-fi action/comedy didn't help it reach the intended market

Not sure on this one:

3) Fox DID pull it for being "politically unreliable"- After 2001, a lot of shows seemed to get very absolute and one-sided; Firefly did make subtle, but strong distinction between good and evil. Unfortunately, evil turned out to be government more often than not. While the independent style and 'vigilante' feel of the show might have cosmetically appealed to some viewers who like simple, straight-shooting solutions, it is really more complex. Fox didn't need a show that glorified individualism at a time when very few people wanted to criticize the government and worry about things like consequences.

"That's why I never kiss them on the mouth."
"When do I get to get sexed up?!"
"This is my most favorite-est gun..."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, November 29, 2005 5:31 PM

NANDY

That is so funny. I always saw Firefly as a more Conservative show. Lots of guns, first of all, but also the Independents fought for states rights! I guess everyone projects their own ideals onto the show.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, November 29, 2005 5:39 PM

RIVER6213

Put a gun in your mouth and see how many times you can pull the trigger.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, November 29, 2005 6:22 PM

BROWNCOATER

I've said exactly the same thing. Fox did not want a program right after 9/11 where the bad guys are the Feds.

As for government being more complex, it's only that way because people make it that way. Everyone says they favor individualism, yet everyone continues to vote for people supporting the same, broken systems that really aren't fixing much.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 10:58 AM

KILLERBRAIN

Most people think it was just the fact that Fox messed up the marketing, didn't air the pilot first, that led to poor ratings for an expensive show, no politics involved.

But as Tim Minear says in some interview I heard (I thought it was The Signal podcast, but still searching around to find it again), they could tell Fox wasn't behind it from the start, when they didn't air the pilot nor even pop the DVD of their revised pilot into the player to see if they would consider airing a revised version. Fox's minds were probably already made up that it wouldn't be nurtured at all, or given time to find an audience. That frame of mind I'm thinking started with the political vibe they got from the pilot-- the Fed is the bad guy. They could see where this was going, some bigwhig got pissed, and it was doomed.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 11:18 AM

MAL4PREZ

I've been wondering about this myself, but I felt overly paranoid. Thanks for starting the thread so I don't feel alone!

Have you seen Outfoxed? I can so see Rupert Murdoch and his cronies killing Firefly because it goes against their political agenda. (Hey, just let me wallow in paranoia for a minute. It's squishy and fun!) I just hope their goal is not to keep the series from ever seeing daylight again.

m4p

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.

"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 11:52 AM

MARC

Hi gang,
Good points. However, the show died because it was placed in a death spot on TV. Most people that would enjoy this show are out doing other things on friday night. Hell, Jag., a wonderful gungho pro gov. propaganda show died in one season when it was moved to Friday night. That show was top 5 for 10 yrs.
I realy think it was as simple as that. They didn't get the numbers, the show was expensive to make, they never gave it a chance for the word to get around.
The same mistake was nearly made with the movie. There was little or no, promo on tv, or anywhere else. Heck. most of my friends thought it was some kind of chick flick, due to the name.
I didn't notice that it was the Firefly, Serenity, for over a week myownself, and I loved the show. I just hadn't heard that the movie was comming out.
Go to Scifi and lobby hard!!!!

Sir Marc

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 12:01 PM

STORYMARK

Personally, I think such a theory, though somewhat plausible, is rather improbable. I know that we're still pissed that the show got axed, but don't go all paranoid-conspiracy over it.

I mean, this is FOX we're talking about. A network that had developed a reputation for launching sci-fi or genre shows, usually on Friday nights, and then cancelling them promptly if they do not become huge hits right out of the gate. This a reputation they had earned long before Firefly was twinkling in Joss' eye.

Now, if FOX was known for supporting genre shows with dedicated fanbases, but struggling ratings, you might have a case.

I am of the belief that FOX network would air the "George W. Bush is an Idiot" variety hour if they knew it was going to bring in the cash.

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 12:20 PM

RUBBERDUCKY

Its about the money this was an expencive show FOX has an unholy reputation for cutting shows that do poorly on the first series. It dosent matter how good the story is or how good its potential if it dont make them money they ant intrested.

Thats my 2 cents

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 12:37 PM

CAUSAL

Fox is part of the military-industrial complex, don't you see?? They feed the propaganda machine that feeds the war that feeds the company that makes the bullets that feed into the machine guns to kill little babies! My God! Bush probably planned the whole thing, just to be a sourpuss. I'm sure Dick Cheney had something to do with it, too. And Elvis. Yeah; Elvis! I'm sure he's culpable in all this.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Edit: oops, forgot to use [[]sarcasm[]] [[]/sarcasm[]]

-----------------------------------------------------------
Re-edit: I wish Haken had a eyes-rolling emoticon.

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 12:52 PM

KILLERBRAIN

Sure, it dies because it was put on Friday nights.

But they put it there why? Because they wanted it to die. They had already given up on it. They were just going through the motions.

This isn't just any show-- this is from Joss Whedon, who had proven himself. Put your full might behind it and it was going to be a winner.

They had a choice. They can make or break a new show with its time slot and promotion. They killed it. It wasn't because it sucked. It was because something about it must have rubbed them the wrong way. It's about rebels who hate their superpower (The Alliance). Airing during the run-up to the Iraq war. A run-up run by our superpower (good ol' US of A). Runned-up with significant help from Fox news. Do the math.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 1:43 PM

CAUSAL

Oh. My. God. I've seen some ridiculous threads in my time here at FFF.net, but this takes the cake.

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 11:21 PM

PSYCHICRIVER

I don't think we should be asking "Why did Fox cancel Firefly?", I think we should be asking "Why didn't people watch this show? Or why didn't they like it?". Well I know a lot of that is down to Fox's poor poor advertisement campaign and support etc.

I think a large factor is that people just dont like good fiction anymore. Reality TV has taken over. And its just getting more and more insane (not to mention crap.) so insane that in fact...reality TV will destroy itself given enough time.

Then fiction will be back in fashion!

PsychicRiver

"Two by two, hands of blue."

"We'll take care of each other. I'll knit!"
"I swallowed a bug."

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 1, 2005 8:15 AM

PSOLARIS

Hey gang, I am brand spanking new to this website. I got to reading some of the threads here and felt the need to talk too.

I must say how angry I am that I wasn't aware that this series even exsisted until after the movie came out. I LOVE the sci-fi genre, and when a new series comes out, I will ALWAYS watch it to see if it's going to be something I'll like. Now, I watch plenty on Fox, and NOT ONCE did I happen to catch a preview or commercial on this while it was supposedly being advertised by this network. That in and of itself should prove that it was not properly advertised, if I, of all people, missed this. I thoroughly enjoyed the film, and I've got a friend that has bought the Firefly DVD's and I'm borrowing them to watch the series. I love the show and I sure hope that there are talks out there to revive it!!!

I think everyone here has a good point about why this show didn't make it right away. The advertising was not what it should have been, and I'm quite sure that it was not properly advertised because it did not fit an agenda of Fox execs. I do hope the DVD sales go through the roof so that we can show these people they've made a terrible mistake with cancelling the show. Didn't the movie to relatively well at the box office? I don't remember if it ever made it to #1, but I remember reading that it was in the top 5 for a couple of weeks and the reviews it got were good. /keeping fingers crossed that something good comes of all of this.

I'm definitely going to keep reading up on this site. I'm fast becoming a fan of this show, and I hate that I am such a late fan!!!

Psolaris

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 1, 2005 8:26 AM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Oh. My. God. I've seen some ridiculous threads in my time here at FFF.net, but this takes the cake.

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

I agree, absolutely ridiculous!! (Lady Ridicule, smite me down. I fear you not!)

But have you seen Outfoxed? I'm not lookin' to fight here, I'm just sayin' ...

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 1, 2005 8:32 AM

STORYMARK

I'm amazed by all the people who complain that the show/movie wasn't advertised. (Not taking shots at anyone in particular, just the overall trend)

I think it just comes down to when you watch, what you watch, and plain luck of the draw.

Personally, I saw lots of commercials for Firefly before it began. I also saw a lot of coverage on line on variouse movie/TV sites (like Aint-it-cool-news, who's TV editor, Hercules, has been thumping the Firefly drum good and hard for years now).

I also saw quite a few commercials for Serenity. I even caught one durring the season premiere of The Simpsons. It got to a point where I'd seen the commercial enough times that I eventually stopped even paying attention to them (I tend to have the TV on when on the computer, and at the beginning would always turn to watch when I heard "Hands and knees and heads bowed down!").

Now, the quality of these commercials is where I think TPTB fell through. After having seen the movie, I really doubt that "Do you want to run this ship? - Yeah! - Well, you can't" was the most compelling clip to end all the spots with.

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 1, 2005 9:06 AM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
After having seen the movie, I really doubt that "Do you want to run this ship? - Yeah! - Well, you can't" was the most compelling clip to end all the spots with.

I think that was Universal sort of desperately throwing in a tag meant to say, essentially, "Look, look! It's not uber-geeky! It's hip, and funny, too!" I can almost envision the PR people: what is this movie, anyway? Is it sci-fi? Action? Adventure? Comedy? Horror? Western? This doesn't fit any of my movie-advertising formulas...

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 1, 2005 10:57 AM

KILLERBRAIN

Well, I don't want to push too hard on this, since we all have something in common, which is we love Firefly. No reason to start divisions or anything. It just seemed to kind of make sense for me-- I was half expecting someone to say, "not that crazy idea again". But maybe I'm the first?

I suppose we should be glad Fox at least gave 'em a fighting chance.

The tragedy of its cancellation is part of its allure. Without the backstory of how it was cancelled, I know my brother-in-law wouldn't have gotten hooked as easily. He was saying all the time, "I can't believe they cancelled this!" as he watched another episode with me last week. Plus he knew he could finish it in a weekend. The idea of starting in on a stack of 7 seasons would have been more mentally daunting.

Gotta love a villian. Nothing like a cause worth fighting for. Just don't get too bitter, I guess.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 1, 2005 1:25 PM

KILLERBRAIN

Nah, changed my mind. Won't let it die. Not a good time to be questioning authority on the Fox network, 2002. Remember the political climate in the year after 9/11? Being a trouble maker, aiming to disobey, could get you branded a terrorist (even looking at some books in the library would get you funny looks).

There's a memo in Murdoch or O'Reilly's office under a stack of papers that says "get rid of that menace firefly thing. who greenlighted that? fire 'em. and put it in the friday night timeslot. moo ha ha." Or something to that effect.

The good thing for us is: if there's anything to it, and we can get some big-name journalist or the outfoxed guy on the case (thanks for the link)-- then to save face maybe Fox would sell it to SciFi for cheap just to unload it and not be accused of sitting on it for political reasons.

Come on, this could be the ticket to getting back Firefly! We can't let them get away with it! We need an insider to find that memo, or at least the smoking gun email message.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 1, 2005 1:49 PM

RIVER6213

I had never heard of Firefly until I went to see Serenity. I never seen it advertised anywhere, never seen a flyer, never seen it in magazines, never seen it in the tv guide, never heard of it until I stumbled into the movie Serenity.

I've heard of Buffy The Vampire Owner. I turn around and theres a photograph of Buffy on the side of a bus. I open up the tv guide and there's Buffy again. I'm watching tv and there's a commercial for Buffy, I'm eating in a resturant and theres two people over in the booth talking about Buffy...why wasnt Firefly treated like this?

It seems like this Firefly had some kind of opposition right from the start.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 1, 2005 2:09 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD

I’ll tell you the real reason why fox canceled Firefly. The actors from fox’s other shows were all jealous of how good looking the Firefly cast was. The other shows demanded that fox to hire more attractive actors for their shows. Scientists warned fox that if all the actors from all their shows were as gorgeous as the Firefly cast then the network would have a dangerous level of sexiness and could cause permanent eye damage to the audience and melt all their television sets. The producers at fox had no choice but to cancel Firefly to appease the other shows and to prevent a horrible eye boiling catastrophe, a horribly sexy eye boiling catastrophe.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 1, 2005 2:13 PM

JAYTEE

Fox News is the equivalent of George Orwell's 1984 Newspeak. They ignore the truth or try like the devil to alter people's perception of it. They care less about facts and more about audience share. All of their political talk shows slant so far to the right their almost horizontal yet they make the audacious claim that they are "Fair and Balanced". The whole Fox conglomerate is run my Rupert Murdoch. One whiff of the sentiments in Firefly and he'd be against it in a nanosecond. It's no small wonder that it wasn't given the backing. There's a demographic out there somewhere that says it all. Off the entire population of Earth there are 20% who are either Browncoats or potential Browncoats and they are intelligent, open-minded and not naive enough to think that their government wouldn't lie to them or screw them over. Then there are the 10% who are intelligent yet have no ethics and morals other than self-serving ones and feel no compassion (yet fake it for appearances) no remorse and would strangle a puppy just for fun. Fox execs and Neocons fall into this group. The other 70% are mindless sheep easily led and easily entertained my brainless pablum like the Brady Bunch Movie and other tasteless crap that network TV is overrun with.

Jaytee

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 1, 2005 2:27 PM

BROWNCOATER

Well said, Jaytee!

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 1, 2005 3:31 PM

NANDY

Is it just me? or are television stations in the business of making money rather than killing shows they know are great because they could possibly be interpreted to be pro-liberal? Any thoughts on why they would cancel this show if they thought it could make money?
I can only see one way politics would have affected the show...
I don't happen to see a paticularly liberal agenda behind firefly despite the fact that I am conservative (aka- all that is evil in this 'verse, as seems to be the general consensus).. but if fox canceled the show because they thought in the current climate of America, people wouldn't like a liberal show so it wouldn't make money, that is a real reason to cancel the show. If that was the reason (and I donn't think it is) then any station would have done the same thing. Not just the conservative one.

I have to say again though... I DON'T think politics were why Firefly was not nurtured.

"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand whose in ruttin' command here."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 1, 2005 4:24 PM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I had never heard of Firefly until I went to see Serenity. I never seen it advertised anywhere, never seen a flyer, never seen it in magazines, never seen it in the tv guide, never heard of it until I stumbled into the movie Serenity.

I've heard of Buffy The Vampire Owner. I turn around and theres a photograph of Buffy on the side of a bus. I open up the tv guide and there's Buffy again. I'm watching tv and there's a commercial for Buffy, I'm eating in a resturant and theres two people over in the booth talking about Buffy...why wasnt Firefly treated like this?

It seems like this Firefly had some kind of opposition right from the start.

Buffy had to become a hit show before it got that kind of coverage. It wasn't untill about the 3rd season that it started getting all that attention.

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 1, 2005 5:28 PM

AERIN

My first reaction to this thread was that Fox most likely cancelled the series because it was expensive and they didn’t get it. Cowboys in space sounds ridiculous. The main characters are thieves, not terrorists. But when I took the Firefly set home over Thanksgiving my mom’s unimpressed reaction was “this is one of those anti-government shows”. She lives in a small rural community and has fallen prey to conservative talk radio and Fox news. She no longer likes other network news because they are “too obviously liberal”. That reaction keeps me from completely disbelieving the Fox political agenda sunk Firefly.

I can’t understand why Fox picked up Firefly to begin with, but since they didn’t run the pilot it’s clear they saw something they didn’t like. I never saw this show or a single commercial for it when it was on. In contrast, you could choke on all the advertising for Dark Angel. But maybe that’s why they chickened out with Firefly – their previous expensive, anti-government scifi show had just tanked (after 9/11), despite having a big name director.

I saw very few commercials for Serenity on network television, and might have overlooked it if not for the trailer on mac.com which hooked me. The good news is I’m converting my friends and family, and I keep running into more people who are talking about the show.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 1, 2005 5:29 PM

KILLERBRAIN

Quote:
Originally posted by Nandy:
Is it just me? or are television stations in the business of making money rather than killing shows they know are great because they could possibly be interpreted to be pro-liberal? Any thoughts on why they would cancel this show if they thought it could make money?

Well, first of all I don't think Firefly is a liberal vs conservative thing. It's a regular folk vs big corrupt entities thing. The Alliance and Blue Sun are in bed together. You could say the same thing about Fox and this administration, especially during the run-up and beginning of the war. That maybe made Fox uneasy, perhaps without even knowing why. And they did let it run for a season anyway-- despite their unease they liked money more, so hoped it might make a buck. But it was half hearted. You can't play this cut-throat TV ratings game with one hand behind your back and win. They were fooling themselves.

Maybe deep inside Fox hated what they had become. They subconsciously undermined their own success. That way, they could kill the show and punish themselves for their complicity at the same time.

Who knows what lurked inside the deep dark tormented collective subconscious of the Fox network executive? Were there monkeys?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 1, 2005 5:41 PM

NANDY

Quote:
Originally posted by Aerin:
when I took the Firefly set home over Thanksgiving my mom’s unimpressed reaction was “this is one of those anti-government shows”. She lives in a small rural community and has fallen prey to conservative talk radio and Fox news. She no longer likes other network news because they are “too obviously liberal”. That reaction keeps me from completely disbelieving the Fox political agenda sunk Firefly.

My mother is the exact same way except that she loves this show! I guess it's all a toss up.

BTW It is common mistake to say things like "fallen prey to [conservatives]"... Maybe your mom isn't a victim who can't think for herself... maybe she just has different opinions than you. Conservatives are not liberals who have been duped by evil white men... they actually think for themselves the same way liberals do. TADAA!

WOw... I think maybe that was too harsh... sorry if I offend... it's just a sore spot for me

"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 1, 2005 6:08 PM

AERIN

Initially I included a sentence saying I'm not anti-conservative, but I left it out because I thought my post was already getting long. My mom could think for herself, but she prefers to repeat exactly what she hears and tries to exclude conflicting viewpoints. That's where the "fallen prey to" part comes in. I find political discussions most useful and interesting when they are with people of differing views, but I sicken of rhetoric. If you don’t even want to HEAR an opposing view, I can’t take your view very seriously. Otherwise I actually agree with a lot of what she believes, I just like to debate the issues and get discouraged when my views are automatically discounted because I live in a “liberal city”. Listen, think, discuss, and then decide!

Sorry for getting us off track!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 1, 2005 6:25 PM

NANDY

Wow thanks for the super nice, thought-out response. I really appreciate it.

And, sorry for my last post. I understand what you meant now

"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 1, 2005 9:25 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD

My explanation about the jealousy of other shows and avoiding horribly sexy eye boiling catastrophe makes far more sense than this argument about politics.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER

POST DATE