Why isn't SCIFI picking up this SHOW!!! by shoreguy

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Why isn't SCIFI picking up this SHOW!!!

POSTED BY: SHOREGUY
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 22:38
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VIEWED: 9444
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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 8:27 AM

Come on FIREFLY is way better than the boring Stargate series line. I like Battlestar G. though. SCIFI has a real opportunity too pickup a great show. Let's face it FIREFLY doesnot belong on a primetime channel. Do you see the cr*ppy shows on regular TV nowadays (DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA) I can't see why SCIFI hasn't jumped on this SERIES...

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 8:29 AM

RABIT

From what (little) I understand, Fox is demanding exorborant fees of anyone interested in taking up the franchise. SciFi can't afford it.

Rabit

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 8:46 AM

DELTAFOURTWO

Without going into a lot of detail, the main reason is this: FOX still owns the TV rights, which include distribution and production, for "Firefly". Though Sci-Fi Channel, which is owned by parent company Universal Pictures, has liscenced "Firefly" for syndicated viewing, it's FOX that has full control of them.

Which brings up the Big Wrinkle. For Joss to get "Serenity" made, he had to come to an agreement with FOX that he could take the film release rights with him to shop around wherever he wanted. Yet FOX would continue to retain the television distribution rights for a total of no less than 10 years. That's right: 10 years!!! So unless the contract is renegotiated in some way, no one but FOX themselves can produce a new "Firefly" series (And ya know we don't REALLY want that).

So as much as we as fans and viewers would love to see Sci-Fi pick it up and create new episodes, Universal simply doesn't have the power or ability to do so. So unless they are willing to go into contract negotiations with FOX for aquisition of rights, I probobly wouldn't hold my breath for anymore "Firefly" anytime soon.

At best, we can hope for a theatre sequal (Though that probobly isn't really as likely as it might have been prior to "Serenity's" theatrical release) or maybe a direct to video release of a sequal.

This information I have provided comes from two sorces. One: From the first Serenity cast panal at Dragon*Con 2005, where Adam, Ron, Jewel and Morena answered this specific question for the crowd. And from a playback interview with Jewel that is available for listening at The Signal ( www.serenityfirefly.com), podcast Special Edition show #3.

Hope this helps you with why we don't seem to be getting any new episodes. It sucks. But this the reason why.

"Yeah, grenades cost extra."

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 9:00 AM

BLUE786

So SciFi could still pick up Firfly, if they could come to an agreement with Fox on the price for releasing the rights.

I wonder how much Fox wants.

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 9:07 AM

GAZERBEAM

With regards to the possibility of a sequel, I look ast it this way: If Underworld, Resident Evil, and the Dungeons and Dragons movie can get sequels, so can our BDM. I for one am holding out hope. After all, there is precedent for the sequel doing much better than the original. Just look at Saw II.

--------------------------------------------------
"The people who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do."
"Yeah, but we wont care!"

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 9:26 AM

STORYMARK

One other thing to keep in mind, just because FOX owns the rights to produce a new series, it doesn't mean that it has to be ON FOX. There is a difference between FOX Network, and FOX productions. FOX has, and still does, produce shows that air on other networks. Buffy and Angel being key examples. And there's even a bit more parallel, in that FOX network passed on the original Buffy pilot, though FOX productions still made the show for WB (and later UPN).
So, technically speaking, no one has to buy the rights to make Firefly, they just have to reach an agreement with FOX for the distribution.

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 9:34 AM

THELURKER

Quote:
For Joss to get "Serenity" made, he had to come to an agreement with FOX that he could take the film release rights with him to shop around wherever he wanted. Yet FOX would continue to retain the television distribution rights for a total of no less than 10 years. That's right: 10 years!!! So unless the contract is renegotiated in some way, no one but FOX themselves can produce a new "Firefly" series

To quote Indiana Jones:

"Fools. Bureaucratic fools. They don't know what they've got there."

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 9:40 AM

STYLINLP38

ANother issue is that each episode costs to much for Sci Fi channel to produce. I believe its 5 million per episode. Ouch.

What I dont understand is why it would still cost that much with further episodes. The set is allready built, most the graphics allready made, music allready done, etc etc. Seems to me they can just use what was allready bought and paid for and run with it. hmmm

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 9:57 AM

HJERMSTED

Fox considers Firefly to have been a huge failure. The pilot cost $10 million and the remaining 13 hours were produced, I believe, at $2 to 3 million a piece (please, correct me if I'm wrong). That failure is still logged in their accountant's books in red ink and will not be forgotten by them.

The 'verse does get more valuable to Fox with each new fan but not in the Family Guy (put it back into production) kind of way. From Fox's standpoint selling off Firefly would be a once-in-a-network's-lifetime opportunity to recover cash on a failed show. This happens so rarely they will undoubtedly ask a HUGE sum should someone come a courtin'.

The growing popularity of the franchise actually hurts the chances of the show coming back anywhere but Fox and I believe Joss has stated he will never work with the Fox network again.

For Firefly to return to television either of the following would have to happen:

* A new show with a new title and mostly new actors but same basic premise could dodge the Fox contract. Firefly Atlantis, anyone?

* Joss would have to get back in bed with Fox and play in their heavily mined playground.

* One of the big three networks (or HBO, perhaps?) would have to buy the show rights from Fox for an exorbitant fee. This price would be paid before any production money would be spent. Ratings expectations would be very high.

* If the Fox contract loophole is big enough, Firefly/Serenity could go the direct to DVD route with mini-series or movies. I'm certain Fox lawyers would have something to say about that and could muck up the proceedings.

With the exception of re-runs, it's not looking good for the return of Firefly/Serenity on the small screen anytime soon.

mattro

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 10:04 AM

GIANTEVILHEAD

The 10 year thing is not true.

Firefly did do that well in the ratings when it aired on Sci-Fi. Firefly costs more than the most expensive Sci-Fi show to produce. Sci-Fi shoots their most expensive shows in Canada, Joss likes to shoot in LA.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 10:14 AM

JASON2025

Quote:
Originally posted by Stylinlp38:

The set is allready built, most the graphics allready made, music allready done, etc etc. hmmm

Unless the set is stored in some huge warehouse somewhere that I'm not aware of, as far as I know, the sets for both the series and the movie are long gone. While we fans often think of sets as being something sacred, to those in the industry they are simply something to shoot on to be discarded as soon as their done. You'd cry if you had seen some of the beautiful sets I've had to tear apart and toss in the dumpster. Sometimes pieces can be saved for other productions but often there are exclusive designer contracts that stipulate that sets or portions cannot be reused.

Sometimes components are stored, bits of the Star Trek sets like corridors for example, but usually not. And the reason is simple. Storage costs. It's more expensive to store a set than to rebuild it. I beleve even the massive street set built in England for Batman Begins was razed though I hope I'm wrong about that.

On a related note, I had often wondered what happened to the full size Millenium Falcon built for Star Wars, thinking that perhaps George had saved it but alas, I recently saw some pictures on the backlot of the England Studios taken years ago with bits of it strewn around.

Cheers.

J\

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 10:24 AM

ROBINHOOD

GIANTEVILHEAD wrote

Quote:
The 10 year thing is not true

Yeah, the whole 10 year thing was made up by no other than Nathon Fillion as a sort of a prank which got out of hand. (Info via Tracy)

Doesn't exactly change anything though does it.

Yep ......................... that went well!

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 10:42 AM

JADEHAND

I'm still a fan of the idea that Universal just gives Joss a much bigger budget for Serenity 2. Joss films the 24 hour movie. Releases the first two hours as Serenity 2 and then they sell the whole thing with 22 episo...umm hours of "cut Scenes". Nope, no TV show here FOX, move along. In that case the production costs per epis....hour of cut scene is reduced due to the bulk of sets being created for the film. Currently there is no Serenity Set, both were completely taken down (and not in storge) after Firefly/Serenity. However, I'm sure there are blueprints for contruction, so rebuilding should be too bad. I'd pay $100 for that "extended version" in a heartbeat.

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live
"Dreaming the dream that only the sleepless know."

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 11:08 AM

DELTAFOURTWO

Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
The 10 year thing is not true.

Whoopsie!

Sorry 'bout that.

"Yeah, grenades cost extra."

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 11:09 AM

CUB

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:
Fox considers Firefly to have been a huge failure. The pilot cost $10 million and the remaining 13 hours were produced, I believe, at $2 to 3 million a piece (please, correct me if I'm wrong). That failure is still logged in their accountant's books in red ink and will not be forgotten by them.

Yeah, but FOX's Firefly series DVD set has been a friggin' license to print money. The thing's going for $40 a pop on Amazon.com, and as I type this it's still the number FIVE best-selling DVD of any kind. Right now, today.

How many copies would you say it's sold now? And it's still one of the hottest-selling DVDs in the world.

Then there's the great ratings for the Firefly repeats on the Sci-Fi Channel.

I mean, it's obvious that there's a hunger for this TV series out there (certainly much more so than the lukewarm reception for "Serenity") and that the only reason it failed the first time was because the way it was presented.

Surely some executive somewhere has to look at this whole situation and see that.

---

"If wishes were horses, we'd all be eatin' steak."

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 11:30 AM

BLUE786

It seems like if SciFi wants to do this show bad enough, they can.

They may have to purchase the rights from Fox, but I can't imainge them not coming to an agreement. Sci Fi is probably the network with the deepest pockets, and the one that could most easily turn a profit off the show. So they are going to be able to offer the most money to Fox for the rights.

But, Fox isn't going to want to wait forever to sell the rights. After all, the popularity of Firefly/Serenity has to be reaching its peak, with the movie release, DVD sales, etc. With the popularity of the franchise at its peak, this would seem to mark the time when Fox could sell the rights for ths most.

They could wait longer, but as the poplarity fades, the amount of money they can charge for the rights would seem to go down also. And, as we all know, the networks are in the business to make money.

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 11:37 AM

XEROGRAVITY

Stargate was boring? I actually was a diehard fan of SG-1. I think it was some of the very best SciFi on television ever (up to a point). It should have been put to rest at the end of the 8th season. But it's popular, so they are torturing the storyline for ratings revenues (and cheesy spinoffs *Cough*SG-Atlantis*Cough*).

I wish those clowns in dreamland would have the common sense to retire a superb show when it reaches it's twilight and the fans still love it. They gracefully did it with Seinfeld and MASH. They wrongly did it with Firefly, Red Dwarf, FarScape, TOS, etc.

Sadly SG won't be given the same royal treatment even though it was the thoroughbred of SciFi chan's stable.

XG

PS ~ If you need convincing, watch the whole series, then watch Teal'C do some urban assbeating of bullies in Season 8, Episode 7 ("Affinity"). 8 years of watching the whole series (even if you hated it) was totally worth it for that one episode. Who's the man? Kung Fu Jaffa Christopher Judge. Coolest friggin fight scene on television EVER!

Plus it finally made Teal'C with a head of hair bearable to watch. Grew accustomed to the shaved melon over 7 years.

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 12:56 PM

SAMEERTIA

Soooo...out of curiousity, how much do you think it would cost to get the rights out of the hands of Fox?
Any contract loopholes we might uncover along the way?
I only ask, 'cause we've put out a boggle of cash to make Serenity roll and to put the DVDs into the hands of all who we must corrup...er... encourage. Yeah, I meant, encourage.

How big an auction would we have to hold to get the cash to buy those rights, do you think?

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Tuesday, November 8, 2005 1:52 PM

SLOWSMURF

If you haven't read the somewhat humerous tales, not even the BLUEPRINTS of the sets could be found. The actual sets had been destroyed.

The movie crew had to go through watching the DVDs to recreate the sets....

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Wednesday, November 9, 2005 9:09 PM

INSANITYLATER

Just a reminder.. Firefly starts from the beginning on SciFi this Friday.. Set your TIVO's.. cause even though they say they arent looking, we know better.

Another thought.. back in the 80's Firefly would have probably had a three season run with a guest appearance by Mr. T and Dana Plato and would have spawned Firefly the breakfast cereal and Firefly the Animated Series.. Mel Blanc could have voiced Kaylee's wacky battery operated friend... On a completely unrelated topic, I've been drinking beer and I'm tired.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Serenity NOW!!! ... Insanity later."

http://members.thai.net/sinthai/room.htm (Not mine but check it out if you like a scare)

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Wednesday, November 9, 2005 11:29 PM

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:
Fox considers Firefly to have been a huge failure. The pilot cost $10 million and the remaining 13 hours were produced, I believe, at $2 to 3 million a piece (please, correct me if I'm wrong). That failure is still logged in their accountant's books in red ink and will not be forgotten by them.

The 'verse does get more valuable to Fox with each new fan but not in the Family Guy (put it back into production) kind of way. From Fox's standpoint selling off Firefly would be a once-in-a-network's-lifetime opportunity to recover cash on a failed show. This happens so rarely they will undoubtedly ask a HUGE sum should someone come a courtin'.

The growing popularity of the franchise actually hurts the chances of the show coming back anywhere but Fox and I believe Joss has stated he will never work with the Fox network again.

Oh, come on, Joss. Don't be sore at Fox just because they maimed your baby...

Quote:
* Joss would have to get back in bed with Fox and play in their heavily mined playground.

Well, Inara has shown us that prostitution is nothing to be ashamed of. I fully support him sleeping with the entire Fox network if it gets more Firefly made. I admit, minefields are tricky, but I'm sure a clever man like Joss could find victi- trained professionals to clear a play spot.

Fox gave us DVDs... I have to continue my with my delusional hopes

"it has some sweet character deaths -- I mean moments!" - Joss Whedon

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 11:27 AM

SHOREGUY

I would think FOX would be happy to DUMP a cancelled show but maybe not...cLeRks

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 12:28 PM

STORYMARK

Guy, I'll say this again:

There is a difference between Fox Network, and Fox Productions. Yes, Joss has said he'd never work with Fox Network again. This does not nessassarily mean he wouldn't work with the production arm of the studio.

Fox productions does not need to sell the rights nor does anyone needs to buy them for Firefly to resume on another channel. They just have to reach an agreement on who covers how much of the actual production cost.

When Fox network cancelled the sitcom (I think called...) Married for Life, it was the network that cancelled it. Not the production arm of the company. When the WB then picked up the show, Warner Bros. did not start making the eps themselves. It was still made by Fox. Just like, as I said above, though the Fox network had no interest in airing Buffy, they had no problem producing it for another network to air. It many ways it's better for them, since they don't take on the lion's share of the risk.

Fox, just like any other multi-media conglomerate, is a hydra with many heads. Just because we hate one head (the network), it doesn't mean they're all the enemy.

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 12:46 PM

CLEANER

Fox isn't going to get anything out of sitting on the rights and not doing anything with it. Nothings going to happen if they damand so stupidly high upfront cost for the rights.

Why the hell don't they license it out on a per season basis? Say 1 mill per season if Scifi want to pick it up. Its better than no money and letting the fan base slowly die over the years.

"If wishes were horses we'd all be eating steak!!!"

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 1:24 PM

INSANITYLATER

For a really good view of the inner thinkings at big networks, pick up another short lived series (if you can find it).. Max Headroom

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Serenity NOW!!! ... Insanity later."

http://members.thai.net/sinthai/room.htm (Not mine but check it out if you like a scare)

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 2:40 PM

THOLO

What is wrong with "Serenity the TV Series"?????

drop the Firefly title

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Thursday, November 10, 2005 7:33 PM

TENTHCREWMEMBER

Could you please just make it stranger? Stranger. Odder. Could be weirder. More bizarre. How about uncanny?

I think a title like "Still Flyin'" could work (much symbolism!)

Or permaybehaps:

"Out to the Black"

or

"Big Damn Heroes"

just a few thoughts.

BWAH!
TCM

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:58 PM

SHOREGUY

I guess they rather let it die than have it become a SCIFI hit which would make them look bad. Still can't figure how it became a movie and 2yr cancellation...

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 2:21 PM

IMPERIALKNIGHT

Ahh...we are the reason plus an influential Joss stalker on Universal's board of execs noticing the power of our DVD purchasing skills and seeking to capitalize on it a bit. Their marketing of the movie or the series that preceded it amounted to a evil Marketing exec on the thirteenth floor of Universal HQ saying "Hmm, how can I collect a seven figure salary out of sitting on my butt. I got it - let the Fans Eat Cake! *of course!* They can do my job for me and I'll call it "viral" marketing. I'm a GENIUS! That idea alone is worth every bit of the five million I saved when I outsourced my entire department to China...well except the wifey's job to look pretty as Vice-President of Marketing. That's money I can invest in my Swiss bank account along with the rest of my Bush tax breaks! Thank you "Free Trade", Tort Reform, and President Bush for caring so much about the most important person in the world - ME! Illegal immigrantion is Ggggrrrreeaattt! Hey ille, bring me that capacino extra lotte and don't skimp on the fudge chocolete, I'm RICH!!!"

Bring Firefly to Scifi!!!

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 2:32 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD

Firefly's ratings on Sci-Fi have not been very impressive. Sci-Fi can't afford Firefly even if they wanted the show. Firefly costs more to produce than Sci-Fi's most expensive show Battlestar Galactica, which costs $2 million per episode and Sci-Fi shares the cost of the show with Sky One. Not to mention the fact that the more expensive Sci-Fi shows are filmed in Canada which further reduces costs.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 2:35 PM

JASON2025

Quote:
Originally posted by ImperialKnight:
Ahh we are the reason plus an influential Joss stalker on Universal's board of execs noticing the power of our DVD purchasing skills and seeking to capitalize on it a bit.

According to the interview with Joss in the Visual Companion, the decision to make the movie had nothing to do with the DVD sales, though I'm sure it didn't hurt.

The way I see it, I suspect they they saw his talent and realised that while it wouldn't be a blockbuster, Serenity at least could be expected to break even and they can have Joss on board to make other potentially more lucrative films for them. Just a guess.

Cheers.

J\

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 3:00 PM

SPACEHOPPER

Quote:
Originally posted by XeroGravity:
If you need convincing, watch the whole series, then watch Teal'C do some urban assbeating of bullies in Season 8, Episode 7 ("Affinity"). 8 years of watching the whole series (even if you hated it) was totally worth it for that one episode. Who's the man? Kung Fu Jaffa Christopher Judge. Coolest friggin fight scene on television EVER!

Oh so very true!

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:21 PM

NCBROWNCOAT

Well, there are 2 Canadians in the cast, Nathan and Jewel. Although it's apparent LA is home now, Nathan's from Edmonton, Alberta. (Yes, I googled him) Every once and while I hear a slight Canadian pronounciation of a word or two from him but not from Jewel.

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 6:29 PM

BROWNCOATER

I'm the other way. I like Stargate SG1 and find Galactica horrible. It's just a soap opera.
Neither compared to Firefly though.

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 6:58 PM

ERINBC

I think the grand lesson we can all learn from Firefly and FOX is that it is impossible to predict and/or explain the actions of TV industry execs. Bottom line though, they're gonna do whatever they think will make them the most money...obviously (juding by the other crap they air) they're not interested in quality of programming. And who knows how they determine what will make them the most money? I mean any sane person would assume that airing a pilot LAST and endlessly pre-empting/shuffling a baby show would probably not make you much money, but hey that's what they did. Therefore, I am assuming that they are insane and thus, unexplainable.

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 7:56 PM

BROWNCOATER

They might all be taking mind altering drugs.

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Wednesday, November 30, 2005 10:38 PM

RCAT

Fox has a history of letting shows die when they don't turn an imediate profit or hit a key demographic. Regardless of the shows potential or increasing fan-base. I'm not sure why they lay them to rest rather than selling them to other networks to make-up some of their early losses. Dark Angel and John Doe, along w/ Firefly were all potential money makers they (fox) made it nearly impossible for other networks to pick up. Perhaps the execs are afraid the success of something they let go would reveal their foolishness.

"About 50% fo the human race is made up of middle men, and they don't take kindly to bein' eliminated."
-Cpt. M. Reynolds

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