The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe by dante144

i'm going to see it tomorrow. i am so excited. i loved the books so much growing up and i just re-read the LW&W a couple of nights ago.
so excited!
i'm so glad it didn't get screwed up.

http://violetrix.blogspot.com

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Wednesday, December 7, 2005 11:22 PM

THEPLAGUE

From the trailer I saw it looked kinda disney-fied. Maybe I'm just biased 'cause I really liked the english tv series from the 80's (I think it was from the 80's at least).

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Are these our lives? NNNOOOOOO!!!

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Thursday, December 8, 2005 3:22 AM

DANTE144

It's pretty english.

Not very Disney.

Just done well! Extremely well!

"Jesus saves, everyone else takes damage" -tee shirt some girl was wearing at Megacon.

http://dantedreams.com <-my webcomic

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Thursday, December 8, 2005 4:20 AM

If I'm not mistaken, the costume crew that worked on Lord of the Rings is the same crew that worked on Narnia. I could be wrong though. I do know that some of the LOTR crew is the same, and if it's not the costume crew, then it's something else.

I cannot WAIT!!!! I read these books over and over and over as a child (along with LOTR of course).

Psolaris

"Ten percent of nuthin' is...let me do the math here...nuthin' into nuthin'...carry the nuthin'"

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Thursday, December 8, 2005 5:02 AM

INTRIKATE88

I can't wait, either... Narnia has been my favorite series since I was seven. If it's not just like the books I'll cry.

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Thursday, December 8, 2005 5:30 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH

I'm so excited! I'm gonna go see it tomorrow! I love those books!

"Well, then, I believe perhaps that I am, in fact, completely screwed."

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
to find out how to buy mine!

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Thursday, December 8, 2005 5:35 AM

LIZANNE

I agree with the first post, it was incredibly well done and while staying *very* true to the books, didn't screw it up like the Harry Potter movies.

If you're worried about it being "Christian"... well, it is, but you have to *want* it to be. The subtext is there if you're familiar with certain stories of the bible, but in no way does it say "Christianity is the true path.. follow me!" It's another layer to the story if you want it to be. If not...

Just enjoy an amazingly beautiful movie with some excellent battle scenes.

Great film.

Liz
Nathan sat next to me.
All your psychic runaways are belong to me.

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Thursday, December 8, 2005 10:17 AM

ANGELUS766

I never read the books growing up and am only now just reading the really big book that has all 7 stories.
I was just curious (and this may seem like a stupid question), does the movie cover all 7 stories?

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Thursday, December 8, 2005 11:30 AM

DANTE144

Angelus, there are no stupid questions!

This movie is only one of the 7 books that comprise the Chronicles.

"Jesus saves, everyone else takes damage" -tee shirt some girl was wearing at Megacon.

http://dantedreams.com <-my webcomic

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Thursday, December 8, 2005 11:34 AM

no, it's just the first book, the lion, the witch & the wardrobe. i've heard they're going to do all seven books.
the new collections of the narnia books are labelling the magician's nephew as the first book, but the old way that lists the lw&w as first is the way lewis wrote it.

i'm obsessed with cs lewis. sorry. i'll just keep talking if i don't stop now.

http://violetrix.blogspot.com

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Thursday, December 8, 2005 11:55 AM

ANGELUS766

Thanks guys. I was afraid that the movie was going to cover all the stories and I didn't want to watch the movie until I finished reading the books first.

So the Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe is actually the 1st book? Cause so far it seems to make chronological sense with having the Magician's Nephew as the first b/c its when Naria develops from nothing to something.

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Thursday, December 8, 2005 12:02 PM

chronologically, magician's nephew is first. lewis just wrote them in a different order with the lw&w being the one he wrote first. some people are purists and think the order shouldn't be messed with in an "official" way, but it makes more sense in the storyline to have magician's nephew as the first one to be read. then things just kind of unfold.
enjoy them, they're awesome books.

http://violetrix.blogspot.com

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Thursday, December 8, 2005 1:58 PM

GIXXER

Fox saw The Magician's Nephew, but didn't think it was suitable as a pilot. Then published the books out of order. And all during the baseball season...

G

Damn you, Fox! Damn you all to hellll!!!!

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Thursday, December 8, 2005 8:10 PM

fox sucks. they ruin everything.

i saw the lw&w tonight. it was really good. some stuff is different, but it's small stuff for the most part. probably the best book adaptation i've seen.
of course i don't know why they'd have to change anything written by cs lewis... no, it was really, really good.

http://violetrix.blogspot.com

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Friday, December 9, 2005 5:11 AM

2X2

I'm going to see it tonight, I'm soo excited! It's just opening here, and today I woke up to discover there is Snow everywhere!! So much so, that I'm takin' a snow day from work! The White Witch's power is strong!!!

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Friday, December 9, 2005 6:12 PM

TMURRIE

Just saw it, it's basically amazing! This movie will definatly NOT dissapoint!

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Friday, December 9, 2005 7:15 PM

WHISPER

I saw it today as well and i really liked it. Very well done. Thought it was just a touch slow though. Could've just been me though.

Want Firefly/ Serenity/ BtVS/ Angel desktop wallpapers? Take a look at the ones I've created at:
http://www.whispergraphics.net
Now hosting the Firefly Extended Gagreel
I have added a forum to my site and now I need some members!

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Friday, December 9, 2005 8:42 PM

RIVERGODDESS

Absolutely beautiful. And by far the best adaptation on screen. Wonderful movie, and the special effects were sooooo good!
I <3 Mr. Tumnus!!

*~*~
Summer's response to Nathan getting his very own action figure:
"I tried to pull his head off."

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Saturday, December 10, 2005 2:23 AM

CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG

It was pretty good, thought the acting was a bit ropey in places and the effects we're a bit patchy (though the creature effects were fantastic).
As good as I expected a Narnia adaption to be.

-------------------------------------------------

A guy walks into a bar: Roll for damage.

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Saturday, December 10, 2005 3:26 AM

N0SKILLZ

Yes it was sooo awesome, saw it this morning....

Select to view spoiler:

I got all teary eyed too. and Peter and Edmunds armor was sweet, esp. Peters helmet face was down.

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Mal:"Jayne try not to steal to much of there sh*t!"
Death is like sex in high school... If you knew how many times you missed having it you'd be paralyzed- Georgia Lass (Dead Like Me)

*Andersen AFB, Guam*

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Saturday, December 10, 2005 5:50 AM

I'm gonna go see it when the crowds die down. Saw the cartoon once per year growing up (and ya I got all weepy everytime aslan got the knife). Read the books and saw how primitive the cartoon was by comparison.

I'm hoping the movie does the book proud. I expect it'll be different (sadly), but I'll give it a once-over.

LOTR was proclaimed as loyal to the book, and was "mostly" so. Should have made "Hobbit" first, but what came first? The chicken dinner or the egg?

Who am I to speak? I've never read a "Harry Potter" book but I've seen all the movies on cable (minus the most recent one). I did, however, play AD&D as a kid so it's technically not new.

XG

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Saturday, December 10, 2005 6:07 AM

HAZE

The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe fascinates me. A Christian allegory that’s steeped in pagan imagery. You got to love dissecting it. But there is one question that weighs on me more than any right now does Liam Neeson play Aslan with an Irish accent?

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Who do you suppose is in there?

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Saturday, December 10, 2005 9:18 AM

FFFAN0189

It was amazing, I saw it last night with my youth group last night and we all enjoyed it.

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Saturday, December 10, 2005 11:02 AM

TENSEN01

Oh, Haze, please don't say Allegory in a thread about a work by C.S. Lewis... like Tolkien, he abhored allegory... And seeing as how Liam Neeson is Irish... Probably.

Anyways, I loved the movie, I thought the casting was spot on, and Hearing Aslan's voice was grand, that one bit of casting that hasn't been touted and it's good it wasn't lol. I almost cried at the stone table scene. The only effects I was dissapointed by were the Witches Reindeer... everything else was great, and I loooooved the battle. WETA did a great job with the Creatures, Costumes, and Weapons... though I never expected them to do otherwise.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"And I’ll dream you up in this vast, dark bed/Believe I loved you for each hair upon the back of your neck/And I
Want to kiss you but I can’t/Down on the river by the sugar plant"

"...Sugar Plant" by Mike Doughty

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Saturday, December 10, 2005 11:10 PM

Liam Neeson doing Aslan's voice is (1) news to me, and (2) a bad act of miscasting.

That roll so belonged to 1 of 2 voices. Thulsa Doom/Vader or the only real "James Bond".

Needs no explanation.

XG

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:19 AM

HAZE

You misunderstand me. Im from Dublin, I just wanted to know if Liam was flying the flag.

I know C.S. Lewis didn’t like Allegory, but reading the book you have to admit…

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Who do you suppose is in there?

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Sunday, December 11, 2005 5:29 AM

SPACECASEKAYLEE

I was excited to find out Qui-Gon was Azlan. That guy was one of the few good things about Episode 1. The movie was really good and exciting and reminded me of Lord of the Rings. Did anyone go to the Woodfield theater to see it? Because as soon as I walked in this guy handed my little brother and me wristbands that said "I love firefly" Well the love was a heart but you can imagine my surprise. Apparently they are for some firefly phone they are trying to sell but I tried to ignore that part. I like the idea of people handing out I heart firefly bands for the show. But anyway Chronicles of Narnia was great and if you go see it at Woodfield you might get an I love firefly wrist bands.

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Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by XeroGravity:
Liam Neeson doing Aslan's voice is (1) news to me, and (2) a bad act of miscasting.

That roll so belonged to 1 of 2 voices. Thulsa Doom/Vader or the only real "James Bond".

Needs no explanation.

XG

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

You mean James Earl Jones...and Sean Connery? The answer is No, and No. While both of them have very distinct voices, if you put the voice of Vader into someone as gentle as Aslan, too much reference to the dark side...and not to mention that he's already voiced a lion before; Mufasa. And I'm sorry, listening to James Bond talking throughout the movie would have sucked, been too distracting (think "Dragonheart," knowing it was Sean Connery talking was very distracting and took away from the dragon IMHO). Liam Neeson has a very gentle, kind, warm voice...the very nature of the Lion himself. It was perfectly cast.

Psolaris

"Ten percent of nuthin' is...let me do the math here...nuthin' into nuthin'...carry the nuthin'"

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Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:35 AM

FIXEDBYFAITH

Well, yea, it will seem a bit slow if you are expecting high-impact action like you get with most big movies these days. This is a PG movie geared for the younger audience, like the book is. But it still is great for adults. A movie does not need blood, a break-neck pace and all that to be great.

Select to view spoiler:

Aslan's death did not need to be graphic to be effective. The emotion and power of it was very much there w/out the blood.

(Don't know if that is really a spoiler, but some people haven't read the books.)
Dito to all that said the special effects were great and the creatures were awesome. And I am sooooo glad that they stayed true to the book.

I loved the how they showed the air-raids on London and the children being shipped out by train. Children today needed that; it was a wonderful little history lesson that fit in so well.
Wonderful movie!!

No, it's shiny! I like to meet new people; they've all got stories.

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Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tensen01:
Oh, Haze, please don't say Allegory in a thread about a work by C.S. Lewis... like Tolkien, he abhored allegory... And seeing as how Liam Neeson is Irish... Probably.

Sorry Tensen...but he did allegorize.

Here's a quote from a biography of his:

Lewis the Writer

In addition to his teaching duties at the University, Lewis began to publish books. His first major work, The Pilgrim's Regress (1933), was about his own spiritual journey to Christian faith. Other works followed that won him acclaim not only as a writer of books on religious subjects, but also as a writer of academic works and popular novels. The Allegory of Love (1936), which is still considered a masterpiece today, was a history of love literature from the early Middle Ages to Shakespeare's time; Out of the Silent Planet (1938) was the first of a trilogy of science fiction novels, the hero of which is loosely modeled on Lewis's friend J.R.R. Tolkien, author of the children's classic The Hobbit.
In addition to his scholarly work, Lewis wrote a number of popular novels, including his science-fiction "Space Trilogy," his fantasy Narnia books, and various other novels, most containing allegories on Christian themes such as sin, the Fall, and redemption.

Psolaris

"Ten percent of nuthin' is...let me do the math here...nuthin' into nuthin'...carry the nuthin'"

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Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:33 PM

TENSEN01

Psolaris, I meant he hated people reading into his own works things he didn't put in, both him and Tolkien were adimant on that... but it doesn't matter, I just look at it as a great work of Fantasy

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Sunday, December 11, 2005 6:00 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

In a way, I think it might be a good analogy to say that the Chronicles of Narnia is my Harry Potter. These were the first books I ever actually read for personal enjoyment way back in my early teens (I read The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe when I was 10). I found them to be masterpieces of literature. Had it not been for Lewis I doubt I would have ever attempted to tackle Tolkien or White’s “A Once and Future King.”

The CGI was convincing and impressive, but not nearly the scope of Lord of the Rings. Aslan looked like a lion and the wolves looked like wolves. The final battle scene was very impression and much larger scope then I expected, but nothing like the horizon to horizon sprawling massive battles of the Return of the King. The fighting seemed plausible for the most part. The book itself took some liberties with this so I’m forgiving.

The acting was so-so. The children looked like stereotypical British children. The little girl they got to play Lucy was adorable. She was cute as a button, and really expressive, probably the best actor in the movie; she could give Dakota Fanning a run for her money.

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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Monday, December 12, 2005 2:23 AM

TREBZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Psolaris:
If I'm not mistaken, the costume crew that worked on Lord of the Rings is the same crew that worked on Narnia. I could be wrong though. I do know that some of the LOTR crew is the same, and if it's not the costume crew, then it's something else.

The same company (Weta) that did the special effects in LOTR have done them in Narnia. So we get the added benefit no doubt of some superb DVD extras.

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Monday, December 12, 2005 4:11 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Just got this from BoxOfficeMojo, "Attracting a broad audience, 'The Chronicles of Narnia' roared with an estimated $67.1 million"

Full story:
http://boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=1960&p=.htm

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.net

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Monday, December 12, 2005 5:41 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH

I saw it on Friday and it was even better than I expected! Loved it loved it. The special effects were great and the girl playing Lucy did a great job. I was really impressed with her performance. And the battle was fantastic.

"Well, then, I believe perhaps that I am, in fact, completely screwed."

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
to find out how to buy mine!

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Monday, December 12, 2005 8:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tensen01:
Psolaris, I meant he hated people reading into his own works things he didn't put in, both him and Tolkien were adimant on that... but it doesn't matter, I just look at it as a great work of Fantasy

Ah...my apologies then. I had misunderstood your post. DOH! Your are correct that they both hated people reading TOO much into their stories. However they both did allegorize.

In either case, both are great authors and created great pieces of work!!

Psolaris

"Ten percent of nuthin' is...let me do the math here...nuthin' into nuthin'...carry the nuthin'"

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Monday, December 12, 2005 8:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by trebz:

The same company (Weta) that did the special effects in LOTR have done them in Narnia. So we get the added benefit no doubt of some superb DVD extras.

Ah ha! I knew I read something along those lines.

Thanks Trebz!

Psolaris

"Ten percent of nuthin' is...let me do the math here...nuthin' into nuthin'...carry the nuthin'"

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Monday, December 12, 2005 8:39 AM

RELFEXIVE

Quote:
Originally posted by Psolaris:
You mean James Earl Jones...and Sean Connery? The answer is No, and No. While both of them have very distinct voices, if you put the voice of Vader into someone as gentle as Aslan, too much reference to the dark side...and not to mention that he's already voiced a lion before; Mufasa. And I'm sorry, listening to James Bond talking throughout the movie would have sucked, been too distracting (think "Dragonheart," knowing it was Sean Connery talking was very distracting and took away from the dragon IMHO). Liam Neeson has a very gentle, kind, warm voice...the very nature of the Lion himself. It was perfectly cast.

I'd have to agree. JEJ and Connery would've been too much. I've not seen this film yet, but even just thinking about it I can't imagine a better voice for Aslan than Liam Neeson.

Everyone keeps saying I need to go see it. Maybe I should, eh?

"My God - you're like a trained ape. Without the training."
"Come a day there won't be room for naughty men like us to slip about at all..."
"SUMMER!!"
http://www.theshadowdepository.co.uk/index.htm

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Monday, December 12, 2005 9:03 AM

JRC

Narnia is a hundred times better than

Goblet of Fire.

Everyone dies alone.

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Monday, December 12, 2005 11:43 AM

SAMEERTIA

The CGI wasn't all that. We've seen better. (The dragon in Harry Potter, anybody?) Sorry, saw both films back to back this weekend.

However, Liam Neeson's voice was the perfect choice for Aslan. Gentle and kind, but strong. Aslan is no Lion King. He is gentle and wise.

Was anybody else distracted by the usage of identical locations in New Zealand that were used in LOTR?
When they pan up to the city at the end, I was thinking, Hey! That's not Minas Tirith!

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Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:12 AM

I love Michael Eisner. I love Michael Eisner's "Disney". I think of the Disney that Walt built and I'm "feelin groovy".

You go Michael Eisner! Woot n stuff.

Market the 1st installment of the Narnia Chronicles to holy rollers. Remain loyal to the book. Send executives out there to show it in churches. Promote it as a "parable" of faith.

Of course, make sure those same salespeople are talking to CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, and the whole rest of the circuit. Let them shrug and wonder why fanatical Jesus freaks are trying to lay claim to this show.

Stir up some controversy, because politics puts buts in the seats. Most of the time.

Politics didn't sell Kipling's "Jungle Book". Of course, the "movie" didn't even remotely resemble the book. The animals didn't talk, and Shere-Khan didn't get his arse whooped by Mogli. It was a kinder, gentler kind of "Jungle Book". Curse you imperial Britain! Curse you! Great white hunters.

This NC installment, LW&W, was loyal to the book. But, we have several more sequels coming up that won't be. Just a prediction. Eisner's empire now has enough buzz to justify them taking artistic license with the rest of the storyline.

It's the law of the jungle.

XG

Where in the hell is the outspoken Roy Disney? did Eisner buy him?

Save us Obi-Roy-Knobi. You're our only hope.

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Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by XeroGravity:

This NC installment, LW&W, was loyal to the book. But, we have several more sequels coming up that won't be. Just a prediction. Eisner's empire now has enough buzz to justify them taking artistic license with the rest of the storyline.

I completely agree that this movie was indeed very loyal to the book, but I'm crossin' my fingers that the last part you say here isn't true. I know crossin' fingers and such don't make things happen, but I think it would be an utter shame if they took too much liberties with the storyline, and I hope they know that.

Psolaris

"Ten percent of nuthin' is...let me do the math here...nuthin' into nuthin'...carry the nuthin'"

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Wednesday, December 14, 2005 6:05 AM

You just don't get it. Disney is a monster. It used to be the opposite, but Eisner who ruled it for nearly 20 years went nuts at the helm. Absolute power makes people lose their minds.

He sold Disney down the river, gutted the company, drove out all the oldtimers, and made it into a corporate moneymaking machine (merger with ABC anyone?).

Go type "Roy Disney" and "petition" in google.

Disney is getting sucked down the drain and it's simply cashing out it's chips. It's not the same Disney that used to make cartoons. Hell... it's being run by a friggin ex-politician (Eisner's hand-selected successor). Can someone out there please quote me "free press" political theory, and then explain how a politician running Disney jives with the lack of government control?

Eisner has a hand-chosen successor, heir to his throne, because he raped that company for every bit of profit he could manage and left it doomed. Disney is making Chronicles of Narnia but it will the last dying gasp of successful entertainment they can ever manage. Investors are already planning for the major bailout. They drove out the Disney family, all the loyal employees, and pillaged the company for as much money as they could get. Disney has been bled dry. Eisner crucified the entire creative brain trust, and drove them out of the fold.

Whatever happened to the good ole days of making cartoons? The theme parks will be out of business within the next 10-15 years. You'll see. It'll start when the stock starts to tank. They can't afford another run of bad grossing films. I wish the merger with ABC had killed off the name. It was simply ABC sucking up Disney, not the other way around.

XG

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Friday, December 16, 2005 11:14 AM

DANTE144

Depite any of the Disney nonsense..This movie is still extraordinary!

It rox my sox!!

The graphics are A class , top shelf.

The story is a great story. Moving! Beautiful!

I cried a couple of times and I am a big burly man with a handlebar mustache who owns guns!

It's that good!

"Jesus saves, everyone else takes damage" -tee shirt some girl was wearing at Megacon.

http://dantedreams.com <-my webcomic

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Sunday, December 18, 2005 3:42 AM

Dante (replace 144 with inferno?)...

I look at your posting history and I have to wonder... You're new to the forums. Mostly posting in this thread. In fact, you exist solely to post in this forum.

I look at you and I wonder... disney goon?

Monopoly-occupied Disney either has a very good net-savvy employee who (i r coup'Koo for koko pufz) goosesteps for paychex (ya it kinda rhymez_) (<== no not typhoidal typo). Or.

Roy Disney (nephew, heir-apparent) is the one true king. He must be restored, and his loyal "fight-to-the-death" soldiers are rallied and ready.

Return the Disney company back to the Disney family. Let's make cartoons again!! Or lets make stock profits! You go Eisner&crew! "Rape ahoy, this island is plundered, let's move on!". You've sploited Disney company enough, now move on (we could even add a .org to it an all will be set right again).

(shhhh! here they come... bury this thread by posting a multitude of "whatevers"). There is $$$ on the line. droidwars /on

I once read about a psychosocial experiment with rats. A limited environment was built for them, they were given uncrowded space to expand, seemingly "unlimited" food sources, etc. It was perfect harmony for several years. Then one day, the experiment moved to the next level, the rats were artificially overpopulated, artificially exhausted the "natural" food supply, and began to kill each other. It was ruthless rat cannibalism in a perfectly controlled environment. The mothers protecting their rat babies were the most ruthless of the cannibal-rats. Every rat acted like an artificially starved independant rat would do. Survival became an opium. Rats were the masses. I was lucky enough to live in a time when I could see the results of that experiment. Now, it's too controversial.

Replace survival with "filmmaking" and you have the new Disney. Bring back Roy! Bring back that rat we all love and know "Mickey"! Prodigal son.

XG

I keep thinking I already responded to this thread but alas my old post exists only in my memory.

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Sunday, December 18, 2005 4:37 AM

ps - if Jesus saves, does Moses invest?

I've read a few bumper stickers in my day.

XG

where's my caps?

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Sunday, December 18, 2005 5:20 AM

SERYN

Dear Xerogravity,

I'm not usually one to wade in and start throwing rude opinions around (there are others much better at it than me)

but I just have to say get off dante's back!

New to the forum? he's been here since June, he's posted on at least three other threads that I can see, and his two other contributions were to (very succinctly) answer somebody's question, comment on the fact that it was very un-disney and therefore very well made, and finally to express the fact that he loved a movie.

oh, my god, I've only been here since november! I only really post on my own and one other thread! I loved the movie!

christ. I'm a disney goon. someone shoot me.

Just come off it, start practicing that old adage 'if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all'

And before you say something else you might regret, bear in mind that I'm not going to argue with you, on the forum or in private, at all.

I'd just like to be able to read a post of yours with out thinking 'oh god, what now' i.e. I'd like to be as warmly inclined to you as I am to everyone else who posts in this (damn fine) forum
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I loved the film, apart from giggling whenever Peter pointed a sword at anyone, and being unable to restist shouting out 'no! no its not!' when Aslan said something like 'this is something Peter must do for himself'

and Weta, yet again, have made me want to upsticks, move to new zealand and refuse to leave the workshops until someone gives me something to do.

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'do not fear me, ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony'

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Sunday, December 18, 2005 6:28 AM