Happy or Tragic; how should Firefly REALLY end? by Wulfhawk

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Happy or Tragic; how should Firefly REALLY end?

POSTED BY: WULFHAWK
UPDATED: Thursday, July 3, 2003 07:12
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VIEWED: 3718
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Wednesday, July 2, 2003 6:49 AM

Personally, I lean towards the Happy ending, where most (if not all) the folks involved reach some kind of happy resolution of themselves, and a happy place in space.

Mal regains some faith and optimism, becoming a lawman.

Zoe grounds herself, has bunches of hell-raising babies as she runs a flight school.

Wash is the flight instructor and head babysitter.

ya'll get the picture.

tanstaafl

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Wednesday, July 2, 2003 6:51 AM

SUCCATASH

Inara will quit whoring. ?

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Wednesday, July 2, 2003 7:00 AM

SARAHETC

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfhawk:
Personally, I lean towards the Happy ending, where most (if not all) the folks involved reach some kind of happy resolution of themselves, and a happy place in space.

I'll play.

What if Mal and Zoe become leaders of a new Browncoat resistance that eventually overthrows the evil, cabalistic Alliance? They make their first and last stands back at Serenity Valley on Hera. And this time, in the dark, Wash leads the Independent Angels in shelling the Alliance forces back to Earth-that-Was. Jayne's leading the stealthy rangers. Book's in charge of intelligence. River's an Alliance infiltrator/double angent. Kaylee's running the engineering corps. Simon organizes all the frontier docs. I'm forgetting Inara, as usual. She leaves the Guild for a life of Independence and replaces Serenity as Mal's touchstone. Then, uses all her contacts, Guild and otherwise, to mobilize and advertise public sentiment toward Independence.

Which is not to say that the Intrepid Crew of Serenity singlehandedly overthrows the entire galatic government. They're in the right place, at the right time and find the right people to do the right things.

Call me cheesy if you like, but I don't think I am.

Sarah

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

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Wednesday, July 2, 2003 7:20 AM

JOHNNYREB

Love all around!!

Mal and Inara hook up.
Zoe and wash HAVE hooked up, but they stay hooked up.
Simon and Kaylee hook up.
Jayne and River hook up (after a LONG period of reconciliation and medication.)
And Book keeps on keeping on with the Good Book.

Viva Firefly

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Wednesday, July 2, 2003 8:01 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

I go with Sarah on this one, although I don’t think that has to show the end. Just the beginning would be enough. You know a large turn in the tide of public opinion (perhaps some video of the atrocities the Alliance committed going out over the cortex) a favorable beginning to the war, perhaps with the first fight in Serenity Valley, stuff like that. I have no problem not seeing them win so long as it isn’t used as a excuse to latter do a continuation with the premise “this time they lost pitifully too.”

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Wednesday, July 2, 2003 9:18 AM

TRAGICSTORY

Hate to be the one to say it but I think it will have a TRAGIC ending (who would have guessed) something along the line of Cowboy Bebop.

The reason I think that is because the show is pretty realistic and honest. In real life the bad guy wins.

-----------
"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

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Wednesday, July 2, 2003 9:50 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

The truth is that the bad guy wins most of the time, not always. There is nothing unrealistic about a happy ending, it's just that so often we see bad happy endings that there is now a stigma. I have no doubt that Joss can make a realistic and believable happy ending.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2003 11:39 AM

KAYTHRYN

I don't think Firefly's ending will be happy or tragic. I think it will be a little bit of both just like the beginning was. Do you guys think the setting of firefly was happy or tragic?

On one side you have Mal, the man with his bought and paid for Serenity, his crew that he loves (perhaps with the exception of Jayne) doing good work, and living free as far from the meddlesome Alliance as they can be.

And, on the other side you have Mal, the man who lost the war, and possibly his faith, and has been forced out to the rim where he has to scratch out a living.

(I just used Mal as an example but it‘s the same with pretty much every character.)

I don’t know if I could peg that down as one or the other, happy or tragic. It moved back and forth between the two.

I think Firefly’s end will do the same. Parts will be tragic-- people may die, fights may be lost, hopes may be crushed, but I bet other parts will be happy-- loyalties may form, loves may be found, and new lives may begin for this crew.

I think it's more intresting when it's not mostly happy or mostly sad, but that's just my take.

-------------------------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

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Wednesday, July 2, 2003 1:37 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

I don't think it should end, not for a good long time.

I love some of the ideas, but those are just steps in the journey, three or four huge seasons on TV, leading into the successful movie ( movies )

But if it had to end,

I really like Drakon's vison

http://www.fireflyfans.net/sunroomitem.asp?i=199

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Wednesday, July 2, 2003 1:55 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

I think the perfect ending is "still flying ... it's enough" just like the end of Serenity.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2003 4:19 PM

FEWINE

A little bit of both actually....

Mal's still flying with his girl River (What? What? Why is everyone looking at me?). River is still a bit of a babbler, but she's got the whole understanding/comprehending thing down. She's got trouble communicating with others, and Simon and Mal (and to some extent Kaylee) are the only ones with enough interest and patience to figure out the meanings behind her appearant ramblings.

Inara, after her hot, but ultimately doomed fling with the captain, faces whatever is in her past that she is obviously running from because normal, happy, well adjusted people rarely exist in the Whedon universe (and with Kaylee onboard there is no way that Inara has a shot with that), and becomes content with her life. She realizes that her job as a companion gave her the ability to make others happy and she uses her gifts and talents to help those on Serenity find a sense of peace before moving on. I see her heading out to be a wife and mother of a man who truly respects her and accepts her past, present and future.

Zoe and Wash go through the regular trials and tribulations of married life. Zoe has issues with Mal and River being together and it puts a strain on her relationship with both Mal and Wash. In the end, she chooses Wash over Mal again, with the couple leaving the ship. I see them staying too, but Zoe's position on the ship changes so that's she's more of a business partner to Mal than a friend/soulmate/whatever she is right now.

Book either dies or leaves the ship in a heroic attempt to make up for past mistakes during his life in the Alliance. His last moments will be spent faking the deaths of Simon and River so that they can live in peace under assumed names. The truth about him will shake the entire crew, but his last acts will allow them to forgive him before he goes. Mal will be seen pulling out some religious icon after Book is gone and leaving it out instead of shunning it.

Jayne will marry some wealthy, classy lady with a real unique sense of humor.

Kaylee and Simon will be together, but I think they will have a bittersweet romance that will eventually end. Simon may leave with Inara (either as a couple or as a friend), leaving Kaylee on the ship - but content and happy. If Jayne doesn't find his wealthy benefactor, I figure they'll end up realizing they may have a future together right before it all ends. They'll never have an onscreen romance, just hints that in the far future they might hook up.

So there's some happy, but some sad on the road to happy. The family isn't all together at the end, but still feeling the love that they shared making them better people. Those who didn't find just flying enough go on to other places, while those who just need to fly stay behind.

And yes, I think about this way too often. I should write it, but I don't have the courage to...anyone who ever needs ideas, just ask!

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Wednesday, July 2, 2003 8:58 PM

CAPTBAGGYTROUSERS

Quote:
Originally posted by Kaythryn:
I don't think Firefly's ending will be happy or tragic. I think it will be a little bit of both just like the beginning was. Do you guys think the setting of firefly was happy or tragic? I think it's more intresting when it's not mostly happy or mostly sad, but that's just my take.

I realize Joss is nothing if not surprising, but I think Kaythryn is on the money here. Let's look at the decidedly bittersweet conclusion to Buffy. Some good, some bad; a whole lot of satisfying.

As for where the individual characters would end up... This one's too tough for me because while they're all very well-drawn, we don't know what the journey ahead of them was to hold. Again, looking to Joss' other series, "all the twists and bends," there's just no way to say how anyone might end up.

That's why it's up to us to keep 'em flying... In here [pointing to my own chest}...

I've... got something in my eye... *sob*

History repeats the old conceits

http://topshelftvshow.com

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Wednesday, July 2, 2003 10:26 PM

DUTCH

I'm a sucker endings that seem good, but have a bad twist to it.

Through their business dealings, the crew get their hands on a lot of money, and use it to buy up a large core company. Then they start fighting the alliance from the inside, using business deals to make influencial friends and maybe even using River's jedi mind tricks on some high ranking people. Then when the time is right, they overthrow the government and position themselves as leaders! Muahaha!.

While they'll have beaten the alliance, their new position of power slowly turns them into what they despised most.

Pretty good ending for Jayne tho

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Wednesday, July 2, 2003 10:44 PM

SERGEANTX

All the talk about defeating or even fighting the Alliance just doesn't ring true to me. Joss has said before that "these aren't the people who made history, they're the people history stepped on". As far as where everyone will end up... I just hope we get to find out.

Personally I'd like to see the parallel story arcs of Mal and Book come to fruition. Not sure if its what Joss had in mind but I see them on similar paths in different directions - Mal coming to terms with the faith that seems to have betrayed him and Book finally atoning for whatever it is he's atoning for and perhaps confronting his past in similar fashion.

I'd guess that some of the characters are indeed doomed to tragic ends. River seems a likely candidate, for obvious reasons and perhaps Jayne or even Inara. Maybe Jayne finally learns to care for others and sacrifices himself to same someone else, or whatever Inara is running from finally catches up with her...even if its just the impossibility of finding real love given her career and mindset.

I see good things for Zoe and Wash, if only because they seem to be the 'purest' of the bunch. Zoe steadfast and loyal, Wash with a realistic grounding more or less lacking in the other characters.

Kaylee will find her grand romance and live happily ever after.... cause I said so.

Oh yeah, and what Kaythryn said.

and Sarah, you are cheesy.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Thursday, July 3, 2003 5:10 AM

GWEK

Although I'm a sucker for a happy ending, for "Firefly", I'd rather see something mostly tragical, with a bit of home.

I see a blaze of glory end, like "Seven Samurai" or "Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid," with the crew defending some small community (maybe one that protects fugitives from the Alliance, maybe even more of River's kind) from either the Alliance or Reavers.

Jayne first attempts to betray them to the Alliance, but at the last minute comes back for the final fight, and dies heroically, possibly saving Simon and/or River in the process. I see him dying kind of feeling like he's throwing his life away, but knowing it's the right thing to do. Even at the end, he doesn't *quite* get the heroic thing.

I see Zoe and Wash dying, too, but dying together. Zoe is too injured to escape, and although she tells Wash to go, he refuses. The two of them make a last stand to buy time forMal and the others to escape/regroup, talking about their future and all the children they'll have right up until the big explosion (I'm seeing something like when Vasquez and the other marine sacrifice themselves in "Aliens", but obviously with a more romantic twist).

As for Mal... Poor Mal dies alone, just like he'd expect. I'm tempted to say he crashes the Serenity into the enemy capital ship or somesuch, but that's a little too Star Trek. No, I see Mal dyuing completely alone, in a way that may not redeem his faith, but in a way that inspires others (probably the locals they've protected, who've been praying for a miracle, have seen one in Mal, and eventually erect a statue to him).

Not sure about Book, because too much of his background is still a mystery. Perhaps he survives and stays with the Serenity.

River, always the outsider, finds acceptance in the community they've saved and decides to stay. Perhaps Book and/or Inara stay as well, but probably not. I see Inara riding off into the sunset alone, possibly after smiling sadly at Mal's statue...

That leaves Kaylee and Simon, who are now, by virtue of being the surviving crew members, the owners of the Serenity. There's a chance for them to be together here, but Kaylee, having lost so much, decides that it would be too painful to stay on Serenity. Simon disagrees and thinks that it would be wrong to abandon the ship to strangers. Kaylee says she has to go... for now... but maybe someday...

Some of the locals have decided to leave their planet as passengers, and a few have even signed on as crew. Perhaps we get an idea of what Simon will be like as captain: a bit prissy and dictatorial, but goodhearted, every bit as quirky and shades-of-gray as Mal.

In the final scene, Captain Tam is on the bridge and one of the new crew comes in to complain about what a piece of (insert Mandarin here) the ship is, and Simon just smiles sadly as he looks off into the sky, saying that she's still flying, and that's enough...

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Thursday, July 3, 2003 6:30 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfhawk:
Personally, I lean towards the Happy ending, where most (if not all) the folks involved reach some kind of happy resolution of themselves, and a happy place in space.

This follows just bunches of scenarios I've been harboring for awhile now.

Zoe in labor - enough said.

Meeting Jayne's mother. I have this image of June Cleaver meets Sara Connor with a little of Ma Beagle thrown in.

Meeting Kaylee's parents - no, wait, Simon meeting Kaylee's parents after he and Kaylee have hooked up. yeah, that's it.

Jayne's brothers...a 7 of them.

Wash's three older sisters. Wash has the kind of calmness of spirit that my brother does - the youngest of four. He says it took the folks four tries to get it right. twerp.

Jayne getting hung up on the youngest of Wash's three sisters who likes her men just a little crazy. Then I'm thinking he loses her on account of the Alliance and is suddenly on the same anti-Alliance boat that Mal and Zoe have always been.

River transcends to a place between her world and ours. As a result, Simon never sees her again.

Book finally finds his flock. Something wicked challenging like more of River's kind, or maybe even a former band of Reavers?

I really like Wulf's idea of Mal becoming a lawman somewhere. Prior to, let's say Mal offers to pay Inara for one night of tenderness that ultimately leads her to give up her profession and settle down as the lawman's wife...hey, I'm a hopeful romantic, what can I say?

Sarah's allegedly "cheesy" notion of the whole troop becoming the leaders of the new Browncoat resistance sounds a little too much like the conclusion of the latest season of Angel, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. So she'll be writing all that soon...right? Sarah?

I found the way, by the sound of your voice--so many things to say.
These are only words. Now I've only words. Once there was a choice.
~ David Sylvian

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Thursday, July 3, 2003 7:05 AM

SARAHETC

Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:

Zoe in labor - enough said.

Heh. This isn't the end, Channain! It's the spinoff!!!

Quote:
Meeting Jayne's mother. I have this image of June Cleaver meets Sara Connor with a little of Ma Beagle thrown in.

I don't know who Ma Beagle is, but that woman would kick you in the face without messing up her million dollar hairdo! Rock.

Quote:
Jayne getting hung up on the youngest of Wash's three sisters who likes her men just a little crazy.

Sweet buttery buddha, this is beyond juicy. I could go insane thinking about this. (Pipe down there, peanut gallery. Meaning Sarge.) I could write this and I could call it "Wacky Fun." Ooh! And what if it was a secret romance and Wash maybe walked in on them smooching? Or, what if it was a secret romance and nobody in the greater Wash family knew about it until she brought Jayne home and said, "Y'all, I have someone I want you to meet." I'm going to stop before I actually turn physically into a hunk of cheese.

Quote:
Prior to, let's say Mal offers to pay Inara for one night of tenderness that ultimately leads her to give up her profession and settle down as the lawman's wife...hey, I'm a hopeful romantic, what can I say?

It's good, it's good. I think that with Inara it will be all or nothing. Either she leaves totally and that's absolutely it, or they'll drag the UST out so that it surpasses even Scully and Mulder for protraction and then, when you're not looking: Whammo! Stars and hearts and a string section.

Quote:
Sarah's allegedly "cheesy" notion of the whole troop becoming the leaders of the new Browncoat resistance sounds a little too much like the conclusion of the latest season of Angel, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. So she'll be writing all that soon...right? Sarah?

I thought long and hard about calling that vision cheesy. Made me think of Archer and some of the concepts we've talked about-- nobility in a post-ironic culture. Perhaps all our cultural cues want us to reject the nobility of resistance and justice and happy endings because we so seldom see them. And if we do, and are outside of those conclusions, we react negatively, be it from jealousy, humiliation or neglect, and mock it. But I think that one of the greater themes of Firefly is that cultural cues can be transcended in pursuit of nobility, be it personal or communal.

The "reconstruction" of it is not just reconstruction in the carpet bagger sense. It's the renewal of society even when the war for liberty and justice is lost. Joss said that it's (more or less) the history of the losers and the history of the common. I think sometimes that we, knowledgable as we all are, take the history of the common for granted. We now know quite a bit about the lives of the nobodies of the past, but that hasn't always been the case and may not be the case in the future. Revisionist history, as a movement, has given our perception of the human experience dramatic new dimension. It has also, perhaps, been a great contributor to our great sense of post-ironic meaninglessness. It's a possibility to me, that one of the things that draws us all to Firefly--because we are all very different people--is a recognition (even subconsicously) that our culture lacks an essential respect for the nobility of the human spirit and the joy of a happy ending.

I've (please don't throw things!) never seen an episode of Angel.

Your wish is my command, Channain. I'll try my best.

Sarah

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

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Thursday, July 3, 2003 7:10 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Gotta chuck this one in to spin things head-over-keister...

Jayne marries SAFFRON, they settle down into a continuuing mututal-betrayal kinda S&M'ish relationship...

Creepy, but believeable, eh ?

-Frem

"yep, that went well.." - Mal

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Thursday, July 3, 2003 7:12 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave

Quote:
Originally posted by Sarahetc:
I don't know who Ma Beagle is, but that woman would kick you in the face without messing up her million dollar hairdo! Rock.

Ma Beagle effectively exposes my deep affection for all things Disney--cartoons and comics. The Beagle Boys were the badies, but even the badies have to learn their larceny from somebody right? That was Ma Beagle.

Quote:

Jayne getting hung up on the youngest of Wash's three sisters who likes her men just a little crazy.

you'll notice I said "hung up on," as in hook up with, not fall in love with. that he wouldn't figure out until after he lost her, and then wouldn't admit it to anybody anyway.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sarahetc:
It's a possibility to me, that one of the things that draws us all to Firefly--because we are all very different people--is a recognition (even subconsicously) that our culture lacks an essential respect for the nobility of the human spirit and the joy of a happy ending.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I found the way, by the sound of your voice--so many things to say.
These are only words. Now I've only words. Once there was a choice.
David Sylvian

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