Shepherd Book's History by Nyiri

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Shepherd Book's History

POSTED BY: NYIRI
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 07:52
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2897
PAGE 1 of 1

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 6:20 PM

I wasn't able to find any thread where this has been discussed much (and I used a google search to look). Having watched Serenity again, something hit us.

Has anyone considered that Book was once an Operative?

It would explain a great deal. His intimate knowledge with the ins and outs of the Alliance, his knowledge of things less-than-legal, his swift fighting response in one of the episodes, the way the Alliance immediately deferred to his ident-card...

Has anyone else had any suggestions or ideas on the subject?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 6:32 PM

SIMONWHO

It has been discussed but never really decided one way or the other.

Personally, I like to think his dark secret is that he has several overdue library books and forgot his mother's 63rd birthday.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 6:51 PM

CHINDI

SPEW ALERT SIMON!!

lol.. you are DEFINITELY going to that special hell...

(of course we will all be there too, so it will be a shindig!)

Chindi

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 7:09 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

It certainly makes sense and unless I see some compelling evidence the other way around I'm assuming that's the case.

The thing is that that doesn't really answer any questions though. A job description is hardly a great reveal about his past.

Now we know that he was once a believer, and he must have had that belief crushed, but we don't know why or how. That why and how are Book's past, in comparison to the answers to those questions the fact he was an operative is a footnote.

Unfortunately we have no idea what the answers to those questions are. 42 just doesn't fit.

Now we're left with:
Once an operative who believed hard.
Learned the name Niska.
Lost faith somehow.
Found new faith in Christianity.
Left monastery.
Came to Serenity.
Show ensued.

-

I say that it doesn't answer questions, but that doesn't mean it isn't useful. Now we have a better idea of what the unanswered questions actually are.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 7:11 PM

STAKETHELURK

I think there are a lot of parallels between Book and the Operative, making it logical to assume that Book was once an Operative himself. That would provide us with a semblance of conclusion about his storyline if there is no continuation (if, people, remember that

).

Yet on the other hand, the film only suggests this connection. Nowhere does it explicitly say he was an Operative. Thus, if/when Joss can tell us more, he can actually have it be something else without any contradiction. It’s some impressive writing to both answer a question and leave it open, but that’s one of Whedon’s trademarks.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, December 28, 2005 4:26 AM

NYIRI

LOL, very true. But it does make sense at this time. And yes, it just opens up the questions for us.

I can only hope and pray that there will be more opportunities for Joss to tell us more. I, for one, was left somewhat heart broken to -not- learn anything at all about Book in the movie.

The questions still remain of, -if- he was an Operative, what happened to lose his faith and send him searching for something else to believe?

Has there yet been any discussion of more Serenity/FF on either the large or small screen?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, December 28, 2005 4:38 AM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
Now we know that he was once a believer, and he must have had that belief crushed, but we don't know why or how.

This is really the big deal, I think. If, in fact, Book was an Operative, as many think, what does that real tell us? We already knew he was Alliance, somewhat important, well-versed in military/criminal intel and the combat arts. So now we have a title--Operative--but by itself, that's all it is. What I want to know is, why'd he quit? What horrible thing forced him into the monastery? That's the direction I hope is taken in future installments.

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, December 28, 2005 4:56 AM

GRAYFURY

I'm a supporter of this thoery.... Here is a link to a post I started in favor of this idea.... Many Browncoats, have had many great Ideas to support or disprove my points. If you have an hour and dont mind having your mind blown... see what weve come up with... http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15590

"Smellin' alot of IF comin' offa' this plan!"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, December 28, 2005 6:00 AM

ZOID

Nyiri:

...And then you have another school of thought -- of which I am the figurative Principal Weatherby -- in which Book (or whatever his real name is) was in charge of the assignments/disposition of Operatives, and other larger-scale military operations, whether they were of the "palms up" or "sideways" varieties.

His knowledge of Operatives, police protocol, weaponry and military tactics, terrorist and criminal activities and modi operandi, are all very suggestive to my mind of a high-ranking military leader. Others have pointed out that a high-ranking judge would likewise have privileged access (and possibly hands-on knowledge) on many of these topics.

But, I deem that his fascination with Mal, his obvious interest in Mal's innate leadership abilities, and his fatherly/mentor-like feelings toward Mal, points toward his sharing something in common with our captain: A military past.

'Book': "You can't order me around, boy [sounds like an implied, "my boy" or "my son"]. I'm not part of your crew."
[Added emphases are mine, to indicate key words and usage.]
Mal: "Yes, you are."

In my opinion -- and that's all any of us have, maybe forever -- 'Book' was a high-ranking military officer who served the Alliance, possibly even at the Battle of Serenity. That fits the bill when one asks oneself, "If Book was an Operative in the past, why wouldn't he just tell that to Mal? What could Book have done that was so unforgiveable that he couldn't tell Mal about it?" Answer: He was responsible for the Browncoats' defeat at the Battle of Serenity Valley.

As an Alliance general, Book would have had at least as many non-traditional resources at his command as a modern-day general: Spies, computer hackers, assassins, special forces infiltrators and sappers, etc. And contrary to popular perception, generals in the Western militaries are very smart individuals who have done their homework on a broad range of topics that might affect the success of their military operations. I've had the opportunity to meet a few, and while I wouldn't necessarily give you a plugged nickel for any individual colonel, one apparently does not just stroll up the ladder to the rank of general officer in our armed forces if one is a dumbass whose only talent lies in osculating the backsides of one's superiors.

I just don't think 'Book' foresaw that the Parliament was going to leave thousands to die on the battlefield, once hostilities had ceased. In the theatre of my mind, I can picture a scene in which he honorably accepted his opponent's surrender, promising his vanquished foe's army safe conduct, humane relief and immediate medical attention. But I think the Alliance Parliament, in particular, decided to deliver a killing blow to those who had fought to resist their dominance, by purposely delaying the formal armistice proceedings and ordering Book and other military leaders not to deliver aid so long as the war was still officially being waged.

This (admittedly elaborate) scenario I have concocted is the only one -- by my reckoning -- that explains all of Book's dialogue in the series and movie. ...To include his "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not. So where does that put you?" internal monologue from OiS: He was condemning himself. He may have been 'innocent' of the mass murder of the soldiers at Serenity Valley, but it does not excuse him from having served so evil a master. Please note that in that scene, he is looking down at his own hands as he delivers the lines, and that he is holding a knife.

My point is that, for every compelling argument that Book was an Operative, there is -- in my estimation -- an equally or more compelling line of reasoning that he was a field general in the Alliance Forces, or a chief justice, or someone who got banished from his society for speaking aloud in the theater, but who also knows how to google the Cortex for the snippets of info he provides about weapons, tactics, military history, Shan Yu (author of 'The Art of Torture'), et cetera.

It just seems too facile that Book was only an Operative. I sense a trip mine set along that path of reasoning...

Martially,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"'Book'. I'm called 'Book'." -General Richard Wilkins, Firefly, ep. "Serenity, Part I"
[Again, emphasis mine]

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, December 28, 2005 6:15 AM

IMALEAF

I kinda of thought mebbe Book trained operatives, because he knows so much, and believes so much, but takes death to heart.

~~River: Bible's broken. Contradictions, false logics. Doesn't make sense.~~

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, December 28, 2005 6:36 AM

SPACEHOPPER

I agree with zoid.

I was going to post something to that effect last night (though not nearly as well thought out and pursuasive.)

I'd just like to add that I think it is far more likely for Book to still have his rank and the privilages that come with it after retirement if his occupation was 'legitimate'.

Also, zoid's ideas on why he left the Alliance and turned to Christianity seem far more viable to me. Were he an Operative, there are only two ways I can see Book leaving the Alliance:

1) It happened just like with the Operative in the BDM; Book saw something so horrific and wrong that he stopped believing and left the Alliance, in which case surely he would have been exiled by the Alliance and not recieved the attention he did when he got shot and needed a doctor.

2) He lost his belief after retiring as an Operative, but, as Book himself says, Operatives believe hard. He says that like he really means it, which suggests he either was an Operative or was involved in that side of the Alliance. But if he was an Operative and believed hard, what could he have seen that stopping him believing? Surely it would have to be something of monumental scale like the pax? But where could he have seen something like now he was no longer an Operative.

A military leader would not have to believe nearly as hard and still have knowledge about everything an Operative does. Therefore him being a high-ranking military leader and losing his faith in the Alliance is much more believable and realistic than him being an Operative who has lost his faith.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, December 28, 2005 6:57 AM

JAYTEE

I don't think Book was an operative. I don't think he had any overdue library books either although that was a comical idea. Maybe he was a "key member of Parliament" that voted on the decision to use the Pax on Miranda and the result of that caused so much guilt it made him leave and enter the monastery. Or he could have been high ranking Alliance and possibly ran the Alliance operations for the Battle of Serenity Valley. He could have also been the one responsible for the destruction of Mal's homeworld, the moon Shadow, which the Alliance destroyed by orbital bombardment. Some strong kinda guilt drove Book.

Jaytee

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, December 28, 2005 7:23 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

I think it is a mistake to try to link Book to the PAX, however linking him to Serenity Valley might not be one because, as has been pointed out before, he got decided to go on the ship after learning the name and he knew the significance of the name.

-

The way Book talks about believing hard makes me think was someone who believed in that way. Perhaps not an operative, but certainly someone who believed on an equal level.

I also don't see why he couldn't have been an operative, it would certainly have given him the ident-card he had and if his loss of faith is somehow related to Serenity Valley that would mean he lost faith towards the end of the war, ideal time for honorable retirement.

Of course the same argument can be said for being a military leader.

The thing is that what we know about Book is that he is a fighter, hand to hand or with a gun he's very capable of killing people and clearly had training to get that way. We also know that he can recognize the kind of a gun that put the bullet holes in people, the name of a crime boss, and the place a rocket shuttle is likely to dock.

None of that pins him down to any one job.

I personally believe that he was the kind of man who believed hard. I think he was the kind of man who killed and never asked why. (I believe it because of the way he talked about those things.)

Again that doesn't pin him down to any one job.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, December 28, 2005 7:52 AM

ZOID

JayTee wrote, in part:

Quote:
...He could have also been the one responsible for the destruction of Mal's homeworld, the moon Shadow, which the Alliance destroyed by orbital bombardment...

Ooh! Another favorite speculation of mine! I, too, believe that Shadow was destroyed, but by a different -- and simpler, more monstrous -- means than orbital bombardment.

In the series' pilot "Serenity", Zoe says "All those moons -- just like the central planets, they're as close to Earth-That-Was as we could make 'em: atmosphere, gravity and such..." Coupled with a reference to mid-bulk transport Serenity's engine having a "secondary grav boot", I think this particular future society's technology extends to the artificial manipulation of gravity.

Therefore, if all these "little moons" have an Earth-like gravity, it stands to reason that this is accomplished by means of gravity generators. The simplest means of destroying an entire planet's biosphere? Turn off the gravity generators. The planet's entire atmosphere would 'outgas' explosively, burning the land and boiling the sea by exposing them to hard vacuum. As an illustration: Were you to be exposed to hard vacuum without a spacesuit, your blood would 'boil' out of your eyes, lungs and skin because of your body's internal pressure, which equilibrates under Earth-normal atmospheric pressures. (NB: It is presumed possible to survive short periods of exposure to hard vacuum by wearing tight, form-fitting clothing, exhaling completely before exposure and keeping one's eyes and mouth squeezed tightly shut throughout the experience. Don't know what you'd get accomplished in such bodily configuration for the limited amount of time you'd be able to sustain it, but supposedly you'd survive with non-debilitating levels of hemorrhaging. Sumbuddy wanna sign up to be the guinea pig on that trial?)

Deactivating planetary grav generators would probably only be done as a last resort, and only on the most problematic planets, since all the terraforming would have to be reaccomplished, at a prohibitive expense. But it would be easier -- less of a burden on the Alliance's coffers -- than having to wait (several thousand?) years for radioactivity to clear from soils and atmospheres following a massive bombardment. ...Not to mention the expense of all the bombs necessary to wipe out an entire planet; those things don't grow on trees, you know. Much more cost-effective to just flip a switch and let atmospheric pressure and entropy do the rest...

I've come to the conclusion that this is why the Browncoats needed so desperately to hold Serenity Valley: It guarded the approaches to the otherwise impenetrable gravity generators for the entire planet. Once Gen. Wilkins' "deep flank maneuver" (according to the cutscenes from the series DVD) was successful in reaching the generators by the 'backdoor', Independent leadership had no alternative but to order their forces to lay down arms, or else see another planet destroyed, with loss of all terrestrial life in the process.

Thoughtfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE