It was the writing by sagrilarus

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

It was the writing

POSTED BY: SAGRILARUS
UPDATED: Monday, January 2, 2006 18:57
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VIEWED: 3570
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Sunday, January 1, 2006 8:53 AM

Now that I've gotten a chance to watch the movie a second time, I've decided it was the writing. When the film first came out I started a thread entitled, "Anyone else disappointed?" which got quite a bit of traffic. One of my main arguments was that the characters had changed, and that the writing was so bad. I think that it's more about the writing. I cringed the second time I heard Jayne say, "In Earnest Mal . . ." The characters did indeed change, but not as drastically as I initially thought (although I've only watched the first half a second time). It was the script that killed it for me.

This is the surprise of the century -- Joss blowing the dialogue. But it's good news, as if there is a sequel or books or radio, or whatever, this will hopefully not persist. It's just a shame it happened on the debut film as I think it could have made a huge difference in the overall reception of the film.

The other thing that I think hurts its future chances is that he nuked to two most intriguing characters. River is essentially fully explained now, and Book is dead. The other folks are kind of just guns in space. They'll need to add some new people to make this anything other than the standard western. All the cliche rolls are filled -- the east-coast doc, the pretty young cowgirl, the rough guys, the saloon keeper, and the smart-ass wisecracker (oh wait, he killed him too).

Given where they are now, I'm concerned that a sequel if it does happen will be more of a Search for Spock than a Wrath of Khan. Although maybe they'll find a fresh Wash curled up in a little ball on an unstable planet.

The good news coming out of this is that the original show's DVDs continue to sell. For weeks, for months. That means some good coin in Whedon's pockets and incentive to come up with something equally special in the future.

Sags.

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Sunday, January 1, 2006 9:03 AM

KARNEJJ

River's a goldmine and this is only one of her possibly endless revelations.

Book's gone, but his role was (significant, but)minor for the most part in the episodes I've seen up to now. It would've been good to keep a moral compass in the cast, because replacing that type of character is kinda stretching credulity, so that does leave a gap.

Wash's death is an even more interesting project to reconcile. It will add further depth to Zoe's character, but they'll need a new comic relief type char as well, not to mention a competent pilot.

The movie made very little sense to me due to the fact I was completely unfamiliar with the Firefly series when I first watched it. After seeing the first 8 episodes and then re-watching the movie, it turned out to be great continuation of the storyline.

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Sunday, January 1, 2006 9:09 AM

SAGRILARUS

I don't think that looking at Book as a moral compass fully credits his role in the series. Finish watching the rest of the episodes and get back to me -- I think there was a lot more there and Joss had to punt because he just couldn't fit that much into the film.

Sags.

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Sunday, January 1, 2006 1:11 PM

MISBEHAVIN

Quote:
Originally posted by Karnejj:
.... they'll need a new comic relief type char as well, not to mention a competent pilot.

For me, the end of the movie showed us that River is their new pilot. But I also think that the sequel (or sequels) could go several different ways. I enjoyed how the episode "Out of Gas" flashed back to show us the early days of the crew. That could make a great story: their first adventures. True, although such a prequel would include Wash it probably wouldn't have Simon and River. But think of the possibilities before Zoe and Wash got married. She didn't like him. Or, a true sequel could feature - as another post I saw somewhere suggested - Zoe raising Wash's son. I hope to see a series of sequels even if they're direct-to-DVD, and it really doesn't matter for me where along the timeline they take place. Think of Star Wars. I was there opening night for episode IV and like everyone else had no problem with the fact that the story was starting in the middle.

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Sunday, January 1, 2006 1:11 PM

MISBEHAVIN

Quote:
Originally posted by Karnejj:
.... they'll need a new comic relief type char as well, not to mention a competent pilot.

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Sunday, January 1, 2006 1:25 PM

CHRISPV

Personally, I didn't see that much change in the characters. That's just one man talking, though. As for future story potential, I would argue that the pros equal the cons. As my avatar shows, I loves me my Wash. And Book fascinates me. The thing is, Wash's death allows for more development for Zoe. Zoe is, really, kind of one-note. She's the tough as nails, follow you into hell type. Now, all of a sudden, she doesn't have a safe port anymore. It'll shake her up. Plus, you add in a potential child, and she will have to fundamentally change. A mother can't afford to go jumping out of wagons with shotguns blazing. There's a baby at home who needs her. Real development for her. Plus, Book could still spur some really good stories. Back when they first killed off Jean Grey in the X-Men comics, some of the best stories about her were told after she died. She became a sort of omnipresent spectre, always haunting the others. Book could be the same way, with the consequences of his choices hovering over the crew. Some doors have been closed, but others have been opened.

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal, Fox!

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Monday, January 2, 2006 6:48 AM

KARNEJJ

Quote:
Originally posted by misbehavin:
Quote:
Originally posted by Karnejj:
.... they'll need a new comic relief type char as well, not to mention a competent pilot.

For me, the end of the movie showed us that River is their new pilot.

Do you think Mal really will want to rely on River to fly. Sure, she's a savant, but she's prone to flipping out or going bobble-head at any moment. No guarantees that she'd be able to pull the crew through "Crazy Ivans," "nape-of-the-earth flying through canyons," or "barn-swallow" manuevers. She could learn them, but, would she be creative enough to come up with unusual manuevers when needed ... we kinda trusted that lifetime fly-boy Wash could.

Still leaves them short of the lovable comic-relief character.

As for Book, I've seen up through episode 1-12 now, and his main role is still as the moral compass. He did add some "potential" backstory as a possible former Alliance operative or high-level officer, but that never got elaborated upon. And .. what'd you expect? Of course the innocent Black guy was gonna be the first to die ... DUH!

[Isn't that a Hollywood rule?]

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Monday, January 2, 2006 7:02 AM

CHRISPV

I think River will make a fine pilot. Afterall, I sincerely doubt that Mal doesn't know a trick or two of his own. He can keep Serenity flying long enough for River to pick up the experience she needs. Plus, I got the impression that making it to Miranda helped to purge a bit of River's psychosis. It was like an implanted command that she finally carried out, and the voices ordering her to go there finally stopped.

To me, the only way Wash's death will be a total waste will be if we never get to see it's impact on Zoe. And I can't for the life of me imagine Joss letting that happen. He's way too good at his job.

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal, Fox!

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Monday, January 2, 2006 7:23 AM

MISBEHAVIN

Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisPV:
I think River will make a fine pilot. ...Plus, I got the impression that making it to Miranda helped to purge a bit of River's psychosis. It was like an implanted command that she finally carried out..

Exactly. She has a high level of technical expertise and is able to identify the model type as a Firefly class from only an inside view in the pilot episode. She used the nav system unaided to locate Miranda. She's extraordinarily coordinated. And of course she takes off unaided by Mal and he observes her talent. As you noted, her mind was cleared on Miranda; she indicates this after she threw up when they watched the survivor testimony. Plus, Simon's been giving her that medication since Ariel.

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Monday, January 2, 2006 7:23 AM

MISBEHAVIN

Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisPV:
I think River will make a fine pilot. ...Plus, I got the impression that making it to Miranda helped to purge a bit of River's psychosis. It was like an implanted command that she finally carried out..

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Monday, January 2, 2006 7:38 AM

GWENHARKER

The horror that was implanted in River about Miranda played a large part in River's psychosis. She's still unstable, still left of center, still crazy but I think anyone who has 'psychic' abilities are a little loopy because they have so much empathy (that and River's amydala is stripped, she feels everything. That's enough to keep your screws fairly loose).

If there IS a sequel, it'll probably be about the backlash from the Academy and the Parliment and what about the parents of the other 'gifted' children? That alone...

Heh, kinda reminds me of a little fic idea rolling around my head that Mal had a young sister who went away to 'higher education' and such. Of course that's an awfully corny idea but I like it anyway.

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Monday, January 2, 2006 7:47 AM

PSYCHICRIVER

Quote:
Originally posted by Karnejj:

Do you think Mal really will want to rely on River to fly. Sure, she's a savant, but she's prone to flipping out or going bobble-head at any moment. No guarantees that she'd be able to pull the crew through "Crazy Ivans," "nape-of-the-earth flying through canyons," or "barn-swallow" manuevers. She could learn them, but, would she be creative enough to come up with unusual manuevers when needed ... we kinda trusted that lifetime fly-boy Wash could.

Still leaves them short of the lovable comic-relief character.

I think Joss was trying to show us that River is now going to be...saner at the end of the BDM. She's lost a lot of what was making her whacky. Sure she'll always be...different, an oddball, but I'd expect more coherence from her from now on.

Besides, psychic! Which could come in handy for flying! Well it could come in handy for just about anything to be honest. She certainly has the advantage!

And comic-relief...can't forget Jayne!

PsychicRiver

"Two by two, hands of blue."

"We'll take care of each other. I'll knit!"
"I swallowed a bug."

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Monday, January 2, 2006 6:57 PM

CHRISPV

As much as I'll miss Wash (I was watching War Stories tonight with the commentary, and I actually saluted at one point), I don't think that the crew necessarily needed a comic relief character. Everyone's funny on a Whedon show. Wash's real strength was being more experienced than Kaylee, but still showing the emotional impact of events. When he got scared, you knew there was trouble. He was sort of our barometer. He was much more than just the comic relief character, and his absence will change the dynamic. But that change might not necessarily be a bad thing.

I also watched Objects in Space again, with the commentary, and with all of the stuff Joss said in there about River in mind, I'm really convinced she will be just the kind of pilot Serenity needs. She sees things differently, assigns meaning based on her own paradigm of the 'verse. This might be blasphemous, but I think she might actually surpass Wash. He may have coined the phrase "Leaf on the wind," but I think River might actually live it. She can see a gun as something as benign as a twig, but still instantly use it to stop a threat to a friend. I can honestly see her soaring through storms of whatever Serenity winds up in without batting an eye, because she'll see the hazards as a sort of problem to be solved, one within her massive intellect.

That, and the aforementioned psychic gifts. Being able to tell what a pursuer is going to do before he does it probably gets real handy when running blockades and such.

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal, Fox!

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