Re-Evaluating Firefly by aahhaaa

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Re-Evaluating Firefly

POSTED BY: AAHHAAA
UPDATED: Monday, January 9, 2006 18:20
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Monday, January 9, 2006 5:21 PM

I don't know how many times I've watched Firefly now, but its a lot..
When I've shown it to friends, the vast majority really like it, even those who don't get off on SciFi, because they get involved with the characters.

Firefly's like an onion, many layered; it has better jokes than most sitcoms (and didn't need a laughtrack), more action than many supposed action series, real & complete stories that didn't just lead to next week, and... character growth- which is considered nearly impossible in TV series.

SO... I'm still wondering about Fox's cancellation. I'm wondering about their 'focus groups' or whatever. I'm wondering why they were so anxious to pull the plug.

If you took the series to any Film/TV/Media School class, and compared it side by side to any other series in the genre- Firefly would very probably come out on top.

I'd like to see that happen. really. The more I think on it, the more I think Fox cancelled it not because it was failing, but because it was starting to succeed.

the corner of no & where...

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Monday, January 9, 2006 5:32 PM

NEVERED

of course: it's a conspiracy.

if they had kept firefly on, people would have seen how great it is and realized what shit everything else is.

people only watch shows now because they don't know that there is something better out there.

put firefly on and nothing else ever sells again.

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Monday, January 9, 2006 5:44 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
if they had kept firefly on, people would have seen how great it is and realized what shit everything else is.

people only watch shows now because they don't know that there is something better out there.

I'd love to argue with you and try to prove you wrong... but I can't. There are shows that I *used to* like, but any more, I'd just as soon watch my Firefly, Angel, or Buffy DVDs (and now Serenity as well) as watch 99% of the crap that's being aired. Except for Gilmore Girls, which I'm also hopelessly addicted to; this season's pretty much sucked for that one, though. :(

"Kaylee, find that kid that's taking a dirt nap with baby Jesus; we need a hood ornament."

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Monday, January 9, 2006 6:02 PM

SCOUSERATHEART

I genuinely respect your opinion and hopeful outlook, but I beg to differ. My sense of the whole process is that the people making the decisions at FOX on whether FIREFLY would continue do not have the expertise that you speak of (Boy do I wish they would have had it - just imagine FIREFLY in its fourth season!!).

If the execs in charge of making the decision to pull the financial plug on Joss had half of the film-making or critical expertise you infer, the show would have stayed on the air. Unfortunately, my limited understanding of the hierarchy of large media companies is that they DO NOT. High execs typically have a business and financial background which means they look at two things: Ratings and $$$$$. In both of these cases, FIREFLY was a failure (through no fault of the amazing writing, fantastic production and flawless acting nonetheless). My personal opinion is that the FOX execs made a calculated decision from the beginning. Someone had previously made a deal with Joss to produce a new show of his (NOT these particular execs). These execs didn't like that decision and worked from the beginning to bury Joss's show (from there own words, some other lame show was their "baby"). So what happens to FIREFLY?? - it's placed in a terrible time slot and continuously pre-empted by sports. If anybody was planning on helping a show succeed, this is not the appropriate method. However, if someone was willfully forcing a show to get canned, this would be a perfect prescription.

You are assuming that the execs in charge have a background in excellent film-making / storytelling and that they (at their core) want the show to succeed. In my short time here on this earth, I have found that this type of altruism is extremely hard to come by. Human nature dictates that people work out of jealousy and fear more often than out of love and genuine support and interest. I feel that FIREFLY was scuppered by FOX in this same fashion.

I hope I am wrong, but everything I have read about how FOX treated FIREFLY leads me to this conclusion. I have seen it far too many times in the world around me to discredit this idea that the execs for some reason, didn't want Joss's show to succeed. I would go so far as to say they blacklisted the show. From what Greg Edmonson and Tim Minear have reported (as well as Joss), the show was offered to many other networks and none of them bought it. Anyone with knowledge of the "throwing darts" nature of picking a good show could see the pedigree of the director, the actors and the quality of the show - this was a no brainer. So why no interest. WORD OF MOUTH. The show was scuppered by the FOX execs, and nobody would touch it. They can use any BS reason they like, Focus groups, low ratings, etc. But I think there is a simple reason why FIREFLY was cancelled.

Again, I could be wrong (this is my longest, and only rant ever on this board), but I feel strongly enough about this particular subject and how clearly it mirrors how things are done in American society, that I truly believe FOX intended to kill the show (for some ridiculously personal reason) from the beginning.

And I weep to think of the brilliant cinematography, untold stories, acting, CGI, etc that we will never see because of some FOX execs fears and inadequacies that allow them to pull the plug on FIREFLY not because the show was poorly made or spending money excessively, but because they themselves had willfully wrought its downfall to settle a score.

Maybe I am just a crazy fan. Tell me I'm wrong. I would absolutely love to be.

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Monday, January 9, 2006 6:08 PM

PDCHARLES

What happened? He see your face?

Many BCs (or all) have blamed it on Marketing. But why?

I think it is a phenomenon born with the Info. Age:
There is too much information from too many sources about ratings, preferences and projections for networks marketing to fully understand what they are pushing.

A great, slow developing storyline (which leads to forum writing, evangelical, marathon watching behavior) takes too long for real-time fact pushers. This slow rise of fandom through DVD sales is evidence enough; that lots-o-people love it.

From recent BSG acclaim, (Firefly’s protégé) we may see an adjustment to quality works i.e Sans Skating Stars!

This means suits have to actually step back and see what the show means beyond the Executive Summary. Ain’t gonna happen. HIRE PEOPLE THAT DO.

K. feel a little better….

It takes “fan forced” evidence like that for “Serenity” and maybe even like “Family Guy”.

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Monday, January 9, 2006 6:12 PM

RKLENSETH

Ok to answer your question; Fox network execs saw the original 2 hour pilot (which you can actually find on the internet still; the one on your DVDs isn't the original 2 hour pilot) and thought it was too slow and wanted more action and had Joss Whedon and Tim Minear rewrite a new 1 hour pilot that would become the Train Job and essentially the second episode which was more action based and less character development. After that Fox network execs aired the episodes out of order showing the more action based and what they thought 'better' episodes first even though they were out of order from Whedon and Minear intended. Every week the ratings kept falling and falling and was cancelled right after the episode 'Objects in Space' was aired. The last Firefly episodes to air was a modified version of the 2 hour pilot (which is the one you can find on your DVDs) the week before Christmas.

When Whedon pitched the idea to Fox they were thinking one thing and Whedon thinking another and when Whedon showed them the product he had made for them they decided right then and there that they didn't like what they got. So pretty much Firefly was doomed from the get go.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

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Monday, January 9, 2006 6:13 PM

OMELET

Quote:
And I weep to think of the brilliant cinematography, untold stories, acting, CGI, etc that we will never see because of some FOX execs fears and inadequacies that allow them to pull the plug on FIREFLY not because the show was poorly made or spending money excessively, but because they themselves had willfully wrought its downfall to settle a score.

Maybe I am just a crazy fan. Tell me I'm wrong. I would absolutely love to be.

And I weep to think how many more times Simon could have had to take his shirt off. *Drolling* Anyways, you sir are completely right on this and no, you are not a crazy fan, because most of us are in the same boat with you.
Fox really dropped the ball on this and didn't really promote anything to get Firefly even known to anyone out there. Plus the damn MLB(or was it NFL...hmm can't remember anymore) screwed everything up too, not that I hate baseball(maybe football if I was wrong hmm...), I just think they could have picked a much better time slot than that. I mean, gimme a break. Now I feel like singing the Kit-Kat bar commercial song...

My two cents anyways.

Jayne: Are you saying River's a witch?
Wash: Yes, Jayne, she's a witch. She's had congress with the Beast.
Jayne: She's in Congress?
Wash: How did your brain even learn human speech? I'm just so curious!

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Monday, January 9, 2006 6:16 PM

AAHHAAA

Your not wrong; & I'd still like to see somebody march into the UCLA Film School and... no, not march, politely suggest a season screening & analysis in some class run by say Ridley Scott or Harlan Ellison... and document focus groups reactions, etc.

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Monday, January 9, 2006 6:20 PM

CENTURYHOUSE

Quote:
Originally posted by scouseratheart:
These execs...worked from the beginning to bury Joss's show (from there own words, some other lame show was their "baby"). FIREFLY... it's placed in a terrible time slot and continuously pre-empted by sports... if someone was willfully forcing a show to get canned, this would be a perfect prescription.

I think you're right on. Execs don't want someone else's "baby" to succeed, they want their own 'genius' idea to be the one that makes it - and thereby makes their reputation & boosts their ego.

Check out my songs:
http://www.thelightningwaltz.com

http://www.myspace.com/crash_sun

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