The Confederacy by christhecynic

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

The Confederacy

POSTED BY: CHRISTHECYNIC
UPDATED: Friday, January 13, 2006 05:19
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Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:16 AM

Obviously the Browncoats were modeled on the Confederates to some (significant) degree, even if Joss hadn't told us we would still know.

What I didn't realize in the beginning was the actual color of the coats probably is too. For those who don't know, as I didn't, because of the Confederacy's lack of resources they couldn't actually produce enough uniforms for their soldiers. So getting on in the war when they were running out of uniforms, and not getting new ones, they were forced to resort to rather morbid means.

They didn’t have Confederate gray uniforms, but they did have a fair number of dead people in Union blue. So they took the blue uniforms and dyed them, but dying blue doesn’t make gray, it makes brown. (Chestnut brown I’m told.) Thus the Confederate graycoats were in fact wearing brown. "Browncoats" isn’t a far leap away from that.

(If what I said not not competely accurate please correct me.)

-

So here’s the question: are there other similarities that I, or others, might not have picked up on?

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:26 AM

BOWIE

Well, there is the thing about when the war ended. Theres a set date by the allaince of when the war ended, and then they think of some big groups holding on for two weeks after their side surendered. There was a battle in the civil war that took place around the same amount of time after the war was over,because neither side had heard that the war was over, a battle in which the Rebs won, and then where told they had to surenerender by their own side.

I'v always woundered though if maybe without realizing it Joss took more from the war with England. After all, the english soldiers where often called Red Coats. (Brown Coats, red coats.) The people who were fighting them were colonists fighting against rule by people who didn't live in their country. The English gvernment sounds a lot more like the alliance, having parliments and stuff. The only real thing that keeps Firefly from having overwleming things allike is, in Firefly the colonists lost.

"we have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:57 AM

LADYINGREY

The Confederacy had different color uniforms mainly because there wasn't one set uniform. Some of the states did issue uniforms for their troops, some of which were blue, while a large portion of states let regiments choose their own color. Many troops that joined went in whatever they had on had, the Victorian version of jeans and a button down shirt. Some of the uniform wool that was dyed faded to a chestnut brown color, but the Confederate troops never tried to dye Yankee uniforms gray. If a troop didn't have access to material, he wouldn't have had access to dye. Besides, when would he have time to dye the material? When they weren't marching, they were entrenched or fighting during a battle. Supplies, including clothing and food, were so desperately needed by the end of the war that the Confederates did take anything they could lay their hands on. A dead man doesn't need boots. While most of the war took place in Southern states, there were many campaigns in places with very cold temperatures. As a woman from Mississippi I can assure you, if I were having to sleep outside in snow, I would strip a dead body down to his underwear for warmth if necessary. And then take his underwear. It was 40 degrees F here last weekend and I froze my ass off. In short (too late), the Confederacy did have various colors for uniforms: from the known gray, to blue, to brown, or even seized Yankee uniforms. Hell, the battle of Gettysburg started over shoes. But I have never heard of anyone trying to dye Yankee uniforms.

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:16 AM

DUG

The scavenging for uniforms wasn't just from the southern side, either.

I've read the war diary of one of my ancestors. When he was captured at Gettysburg his boots and some other items were taken by the northern troops before he was forced to march to the POW camp Fort Delaware. In mid winter he still had no shoes even though the prisoners were forced to work in the snow every day. That wasn't as bad as the no food, though. When he died of the smallpox that was everywhere in the camp his best friend carried the diary back to his widow and the daughter he didn't know he had....

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:25 AM

RKLENSETH

During the beginning of the war most of the Confederate troops wore blue because that was the most available color uniform. After countless battles especially the First Battle at Manassas with the confusion as to who was on whoms side the Confederacy decided to don Gray and found other dyes they could use. One of the most common dyes was a color called butternut that I believe is what you are talking about. It is far different from the Browncoat that Mal wears.

About the dying of Union uniforms, I have studied the Civil War for a long time and this is the first time I have heard of this. I would like to know where you got this information from. Thanks.

And the war didn't end with the surrender of Lee. Johnson in the Carolinas held out for a while longer against Sherman and other Confederates continued to fight. Lee's surrender just marked the end of the war in East and last nail being pounded into coffin. Out of every general and army that was left the Union feared Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia the most. The Union feared they would result to guerrilia warfare which would have led to years more of bloody conflict. Lee decided that it wasn't worth suffering this war anymore and thought it more honorable to surrender then to result in such tactics. With the surrender of Lee most of the rest of the Confederate soldiers stopped fighting when they learned of it.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:45 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by rklenseth:
About the dying of Union uniforms, I have studied the Civil War for a long time and this is the first time I have heard of this. I would like to know where you got this information from. Thanks.

I got it second hand from a Mainer who has studied the Civil War in a non-profession purely out of personal interest manner for much of his life. But let me repeat, a Mainer.

We know the Civil War largely from J. L. Chamberlain’s part in Gettysburg and his accepting the surrender of arms and colors at Appomattox. Those two things and of course the Confederate we captured in Portland Harbor. (At least I think it was in the harbor, regardless he were held in South Portland.)

I will ask him where he got it from, if I remember, the next time I see him.

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 1:12 PM

NOSADSEVEN

Quote:
Originally posted by rklenseth:
One of the most common dyes was a color called butternut that I believe is what you are talking about. It is far different from the Browncoat that Mal wears.

Butternut is the primary alternate color I've seen, as well. It's different than the coat that Mal wears after the war, but seems very similar to the tannish color rags they were wearing during the actual battle scene flashbacks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 1:37 PM

TANSTAAFL28

Even amongst the Union troops there were some rather striking variations on uniforms. I remember a painting of a regiment that wore bright red baggy pants with their blue coats. They were 155th New York Regiment, also called Zouaves.

http://www.members.tripod.com/~howardlanham/link90.htm

http://www2.inxpress.net/jwedeward/index.htm

"You can't take the sky from me..."

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 4:52 PM

BOWIE

yeah, and known as red legs. :)

One of the only things I dislike about Serenity is the lack of economic hazards the war leaves in its wake. Everyone seems rich and happy, except the outlaws, who are, ah, outlaws....

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 6:21 PM

PDCHARLES

What happened? He see your face?

Mal does say we rise again... in Train Job.
I think that this could be derived from "the south will rise again" which was used by diehard confederates. (and even though the war ended over 137 years ago, still it is used)

…and I always thought he spoke like a southern gentleman from say around Atlanta during the civil war period. ('cept for Gorram and such)

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:17 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bowie:
yeah, and known as red legs. :)

One of the only things I dislike about Serenity is the lack of economic hazards the war leaves in its wake. Everyone seems rich and happy, except the outlaws, who are, ah, outlaws....

2 things to remember about the war. One, it's been several years since the war was over when Firefly takes place. ( 6 Years, I believe ) Second, since it was the Outer or Border planets which were fighting for independence, much of the war was likely fought on their turf. Since the Core planets were a) where most of the technology and resources resided and b) less likely to have seen any actual fighting, there was less of an impact.

Just as in the War between the States ( Civil War, to you Yankees) the South was devestated, so were the planets that had fought to gain their independence.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, January 13, 2006 5:18 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Just as in the War between the States ( Civil War, to you Yankees) the South was devestated, so were the planets that had fought to gain their independence.

Thank you! It so aggrivates me when people call the War Between the States the misleading "Civil War".

A "civil" war is a conflict between two factions fighting for control of the same government, which is clearly not the case in the War Between the States.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

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Friday, January 13, 2006 5:19 AM

WOBBLYWARRIOR

There is a lot of talking about how the Rebels dressed during the Civil War. Most of what I have seen seems to jive with what I know about uniforms during the war--I am a civil war fanatic who hangs out with reenactors. At the beginning of the war, both Union and Confederacy were were using Blue and Gray uniforms. By the end of the war though, the Union was using exclusively--probably with some obscure exceptions--the dark blue uniforms they would keep until the beginning of the twentieth century for every state in the Union while the Confederacy had something of a Multiform--anything from comandeered Union uniforms to rags. The South was entirely broke by this time. But in terms of Firefly and Serenity, that is neither here nor there.

If you want to see some of what believe was the inspiration for Malcolm Reynolds, go to any of the myriad American folk music sites and read the anti-Yankee song "I'm a Good old Rebel." Wheedon only mentions "Killer Angels" as immediate inspiration, but his background has me believing that he has a much more thorough knowledge of the culture and mythology that grew up around the Lost Cause. He has got to know William Faulkner's novels among other things. The difference is, though, we all know, or at least think we know, what secession and the war were about--slavery in one respect or another--and we do not have even the vaguest idea about what percipatated the war between the independent faction and the alliance. That would be heck of a shiny subject for someone to write a piece of fiction on.

Wobbly Warrior

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