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Originally posted by PrincessRohannen:
I think of them as pirates, Anti-heroes, if you like the term.

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Originally posted by StyrofoamGuy:
They do what they have to in order to survive. However there is a line they will not cross that others will.

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Originally posted by KSC:
Id say that line is smack dab in the middle of The Train Job. Returning the medical supplies to those in need, and knowing full well the repercussions from Niske...

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Originally posted by FollowMal:

Our crew are BDH's, shaped by their times and I'm proud to admire them. I would want to know them in real life.



" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by KSC:
Id say that line is smack dab in the middle of The Train Job. Returning the medical supplies to those in need, and knowing full well the repercussions from Niske...

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Exactly! Not the actions of career criminals.
Or when Mal was trying to talk the guard into more than a graze (in Serenity), for his own good! A real crook wouldn't give a care, he'd just shoot him or not and be on his merry.

Bad Guy Chrisisall

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Originally posted by PrincessRohannen:
But never do they go looking for heroic things to do.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by PrincessRohannen:
But never do they go looking for heroic things to do.

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But then, real heroes never do, do they? They just do what is right to the best of their ability when the time comes.

I've conversed with more than one real hero right on this board over the last few months. And none thought themselves particularly 'heroic', they were just doing what needed to be done.
Heroes.



Costume not mandatory Chrisisall

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Thieving is thieving, even if it is from the Alliance. It's only cool in a juvenile, break all rules, rebel without a clue kind of way.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Thieving is thieving, even if it is from the Alliance. It's only cool in a juvenile, break all rules, rebel without a clue kind of way.

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Pardon me for speculating, but correct me if I'm wrong.
You never had a policeman threaten you, or steal from you, have you? You never had a day in court where the bailiff took you aside to inform you that you weren't going to win this one 'no matter what', have you? I have.
It's easy to play the good citizen card if you never felt the injustice possible in 'the system', any system.
And if you don't know both sides, it's easy to label Mal.

Respectfully, Chrisisall

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Originally posted by PrincessRohannen:
When Mal pulled a gun to shut the crew up, shot a man with his hands held high in surrender, and told the crew to "get to work" in the movie, Was it right and heroic?

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Originally posted by Bowie:
yes, it was. The man who came out may have been trying to surender, but he killed all the town, and Mal didn't accept his surender. If Mal had taken his surender adn killed him, hat would be wrong, but there was no way in hell he was going to let the guy live after.


If you play Nationstates.net check out the region Firefly.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by PrincessRohannen:
When Mal pulled a gun to shut the crew up, shot a man with his hands held high in surrender, and told the crew to "get to work" in the movie, Was it right and heroic?

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It was right.
Heroic would come later in the movie.
Mal was on the clock; it's frustrating.

Early Chrisisall

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Originally posted by PrincessRohannen:
I'm actually one of those who would call the crew a bunch of low-down petty thieves; and I'd say it with pride. Mal isn't Robin Hood. These people aren't heroes. They're just trying to live free. I think of them as pirates, and that's what makes them unique. It's one of my favorite things about the show that the characters are complex and imperfect. Anti-heroes, if you like the term.

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Originally posted by PrincessRohannen:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by PrincessRohannen:
When Mal pulled a gun to shut the crew up, shot a man with his hands held high in surrender, and told the crew to "get to work" in the movie, Was it right and heroic?

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It was right.
Heroic would come later in the movie.
Mal was on the clock; it's frustrating.

Early Chrisisall

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Are you saying that frustration and time contraints justify anything?

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Originally posted by PrincessRohannen:
Well said, AgentRouka.

Lemmee ask you all this:

When Mal pulled a gun to shut the crew up, shot a man with his hands held high in surrender, and told the crew to "get to work" in the movie, was he still a hero?

To me, that was one of his most defining moments. That was Mal looking out for him and his; doing what had to be done. Was it right and heroic?

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Originally posted by Bowie:
I say shooting the alliance's man was nothing short of justice.

If you play Nationstates.net check out the region Firefly.

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Originally posted by Bowie:
yeah, cause sending the alliance men back to them would really have gotten justice. Alliance wasn't about to do justice for thsoe people. There was no cout, there isn't allways. When people are on teh fringes that happens, its something that has always happened threw history, and sometimes those people are wrong, but then so are the courts. There was absolutly no way that man was not guilty. If your going to say no one should ever kill anyone else, even if those peeps killed first, well I think perhaps your watching the wrong show.

If you play Nationstates.net check out the region Firefly.

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Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
However, I would like to remind folks who feel that stealing from the Alliance isn’t a bad thing to ask themselves: where does the Alliance’s money come from? Innocent taxpayers, folks who never bothered anyone. And when you steal from the Alliance, even just a little bit, the burden eventually rests on the innocent folk at the very bottom. It doesn't really hurt the Alliance as an institution, it just squeezes its citizens.

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:


Let's just say, I don't believe in "collateral damage".

And who's to say there's no way that man was not guilty? That ship had more than one person in it, obviously, nor do I think that the soldiers on that plane knew the lifestories of everyone on that planet. They got orders to attack an enemy on that planet.

Should they have known the people there were innocents? Where from?

I can imagine a lot of soldier in a lot of wars end up killing a lot of innocent civilians with bombs and the like, without personally wanting to, but because the people who ordered them felt it was okay.

Should all these soldiers be shot at sight by the friends of the innocent victims?

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Originally posted by queenofthenorth:
While I wouldn't say you're technically wrong, you're looking at this entirely too rationally. It's easy to look at something like this and say that when you're not the friend of the innocent victims who died just a few minutes before. However, if you ever encountered a situation like this, where your friends, innocent civilians, are brutally slaughtered by soldiers, and you encounter one of those soldiers just a few minutes after you've watched one of your friends die, how do you know you wouldn't do exactly the same thing? How can you say that in that moment of rage, grief and anger, you would be rationally thinking about how this guy might not be guilty and you should just take him back to have a court of law deal with him?

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As for whether or not they're heroes, I think they are. They're ordinary people struggling to do what's right. They make mistakes sometimes, sure, because they're not saints. But that doesn't mean they're not heroes.

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Originally posted by pinballwizard:
You a libertarian too Tomsimpson? Way to go!

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

I'm not saying that I would be immune to mindless rage in that situation.

However, that very human response is the reason courts were invented in the first place. The victim (and their friends) are not impartial and will exact revenge rather than justice.

Killing that man was a human and easily understandable response. But it was a wrong thing to do, an immoral one.

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As for whether or not they're heroes, I think they are. They're ordinary people struggling to do what's right. They make mistakes sometimes, sure, because they're not saints. But that doesn't mean they're not heroes.

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Why do they need to be heroes for just living, though?

Heroes for getting out the Miranda word, sure.

But heroes for just... living their lives the way they do? That makes the definition of "hero" awfully wide. That means I'm a hero for surviving on a small paycheck, when I think that makes me merely an ordinary person. Hell, I don't even have to steal to get by. Does that mean I deserve an award?

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Originally posted by queenofthenorth:
I never said that what Mal did wasn't wrong. It was wrong and immoral. What I'm saying is exactly what you're saying - it's human and understandable. You can't condemn Mal based on that one act.

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Especially since Mal is a soldier, a trained killer. His first reaction to any situation is bound to be "shoot first, ask questions later" especially when it involves the death of one of his crew.

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I also never said that they are heroes just for living their lives. I said they're heroes for struggling to do what's right. That's what they do with the Miranda situation: what's right. They also do that in Heart of Gold when they risk their lives for the prostitutes, and even in Train Job. Mal gives the medicine back, which is the right thing to do, even though he knows Niska will come after him. He even ends up dying, if only for a few seconds, because of that action. If all these things aren't heroism, then I don't know what is.

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