What Simon Knows by Ragua

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

What Simon Knows

POSTED BY: RAGUA
UPDATED: Friday, February 10, 2006 04:36
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Thursday, February 9, 2006 7:32 AM

After watching the BDM, it seemed to me that Simon must have known a hell of a lot more about what had been done to River than he let on. In the rescue scene, he obviously knew that she was a psychic and that she was being trained as a weapon. And yet in the series, he seemed pretty clueless and determined to learn more.

Was the intention to make Simon more secretive? Or did Joss simply take liberties with the movie for the purpose of exposition?

Any thoughts or comments?

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 7:56 AM

NUCLEARDAY

I think some of that was just trying to get so much information across for a movie format. listening to the commentaries for the series, it seems they had enough trouble breaking the plot then, and they had a whole season to work everything in. (Well, they WOULD have...)

figure he kinda had to get everyone up to speed with the 'verse, and in a movie, you really only have like, maybe five minutes to do that. so there's a few liberties there, I guess.

'course, maybe he did know a bit more than he was letting on. (We are talking THE Joss Whedon, after all.) Come to think of it, if I was hiding out with a motly band of ne'er do wells, and trying to keep my crazy sister out of harm's way... maybe it'd best if I didn't let the cat out of the bag about her being an ultimate weapon of destruction and the like... (And he had the control word just in case, I guess.)

guess that sits well with me, more i work it over, actually. Simon probably didn't know too much of the specifics, just what his contacts could fish out. Keeping a couple secrets when certain members of the crew are rather keen on throwing her off the ship just may have been him trying to keep River safe.

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 8:52 AM

MILFORD

This is a Joss Whedon show: everyone knows more than they're letting on.

Remember, that but for one trifling exception, the entire universe is made up of others.- Oliver Wendall Holmes

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 9:27 AM

RAGUA

Definitely gave Simon a more sinister feel than he had in the series. In Firefly, he seemed more of a kid and a goof. In the movie, he definitely seemed more mature and more...I can't think of the right word. Ruthless? Calculating? Not sure.

He certainly seemed more distanced from the crew. The character definitely wasn't the same Simon who was so genuinely pleased that the crew was willing to celebrate his birthday in "Out of Gas," or the one who stepped up to help save Mal in "War Stories."

Anyone else get this feeling?

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 9:33 AM

FOLLOWMAL

I haven't read 'em yet, Ragua, but there is supposed to be some stuff that happened in between the show and movie that is explained in the comics. They have gone thru some more desperate times and there's been some stuff happen that's made Mal's and Simon's relationship more strained, not personal perhaps, but just the need for work being constrained by the Tams being onboard the ship. That is supposed to explain the very noticeable strain between the Cap'n and Simon.

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 9:46 AM

THEMANTHEYCALLEDJAMES

No, Simon DID ALWAYS KNOW she was psychic and being used as a weapon, juat not the details. When he says stuff like "I don't know what they did to her at the academy... he's talking about trying to reverse the damage and bring back the not crazy version of his sister back. He's playing dumb about her being psychic because he doesn't want the crew to take advantage (Like Mal does it the movie)

Heres the proof(just watch Trash, Ariel and Safe over again) In Trash River tells Simon about Jayne double crossing them on Ariel, which he believes, and goes on to confront Jayne, he would if he didn't know about River then he would just take it as being some of her regular nosense. He also tries to cover up rivers psychicness in Safe. Both of these episodes are before "objects in space" where everyone figures it out.

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 9:59 AM

MICO

Last night I listened to the Firefly podcast that had the Australian Q&A with Joss. He said there that he had to break canon for the BDM and have Simon rescue River because it just wasn't working to have strangers breaking her out in the first minutes of the movie. He justified it by saying that Simon was lying/not telling all he knew in the series.

Makes sense to me. It's probably not a good idea to waste the important first few minutes of the movie showing total strangers you'll never see again.

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 10:07 AM

RAGUA

Ooooh! Where can one find these comics?

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 10:14 AM

FOLLOWMAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Ragua:
Ooooh! Where can one find these comics?

The comics are hard to find in my end of the country anyway. There are some places to order it online, but I'm ( sorry) not the one to tell you, dunno. But the compilation of the comics are out in paperback form, you can order it thru Amazon or buy it at the bookstores. There might even be a link on the home page of FFF.net to order it, so Haken gets some money from it. I have ordered mine, not received it yet. Had to wait until I had a little more cashy money.

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Friday, February 10, 2006 12:32 AM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by mico:

Last night I listened to the Firefly podcast that had the Australian Q&A with Joss. He said there that he had to break canon for the BDM and have Simon rescue River because it just wasn't working to have strangers breaking her out in the first minutes of the movie. He justified it by saying that Simon was lying/not telling all he knew in the series.

Makes sense to me. It's probably not a good idea to waste the important first few minutes of the movie showing total strangers you'll never see again.

Yeah. I recall Whedon saying the same thing. Also, it really just works a lot better to have Simon be the guy that actually rescued her. Much more dramatic.

In the series ("Serenity") Simon is embarrassed, apologetic almost, when he tells the crew it took "Money" to get her out. The personal rescue, in the BDM, really was fantastic. In the BDM, they still mention the money, btw, as the Operative says: "The boy spent his entire fortune developing the contacts to infiltrate this place." It was good enough for me. :)

But the good Doctor, from the get-to, has you know there's nothing he wouldn't do for her:

Simon: "You asked me what a man like me would kill for. And she's it."

Simon, a man after my heart.

/me, all teary-eyed again.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Friday, February 10, 2006 4:36 AM

RAGUA

Quote:
Originally posted by mico:

Last night I listened to the Firefly podcast that had the Australian Q&A with Joss. He said there that he had to break canon for the BDM and have Simon rescue River because it just wasn't working to have strangers breaking her out in the first minutes of the movie. He justified it by saying that Simon was lying/not telling all he knew in the series.

Just watched Serenity the episode again last night, and all I can say is that Simon is a damned good liar!

So if BDM is to be believed, then the whole story about an underground group breaking River out and shipping her to Simon in the cryogenic chamber makes is bogus. I guess I can buy it, if you interpret it as Simon trying to play down his role in the rescue.

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
In the series ("Serenity") Simon is embarrassed, apologetic almost, when he tells the crew it took "Money" to get her out. The personal rescue, in the BDM, really was fantastic. In the BDM, they still mention the money, btw, as the Operative says: "The boy spent his entire fortune developing the contacts to infiltrate this place." It was good enough for me. :)

But the good Doctor, from the get-to, has you know there's nothing he wouldn't do for her:

Simon: "You asked me what a man like me would kill for. And she's it."

Gaaah! I don't remember this line. Was it in Serenity the episode? I'm going to have to go back and look for it.

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