New Game Possibilities by JeeJarng

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

New Game Possibilities

POSTED BY: JEEJARNG
UPDATED: Friday, February 24, 2006 12:28
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VIEWED: 5921
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Thursday, February 9, 2006 10:20 AM

A friend and I are looking into building a game based more on Firefly than Serenity, but we are in arms over what style game to run, he says RPG (Knights of the Old Republic), I was thinking more of an action shooter (see Mercenaries/Star Wars Battlfront).
We are still working out the details, but any input on what you'd like to see/do etc. would be helpful. This would be an independent project but we are very serious about getting it running than hope to get picked up later. I am sure this topic has come up many times before, but I couldn't find it archived.

If your interested in helping writing it, drop me a note or post it here and let us know.

Well they tell you... never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious.

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 10:28 AM

CORNCOBROB

combine the two and do a Vampire The Masqurade: Bloodlines style FPSRPG (i dont know what an RGB is...) i thought it would be kinda cool to do Jayne that way. where you could run around picking up odd jobs and travel from space port to space port.

___________________________________
The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry

Arizona Browncoats can find me at Gamers Inn on Southern and Gilbert, best chances to find me are Friday nights, playing the Serenity RPG

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 10:57 AM

JEEJARNG

Guess I'll have to rent Bloodrayne. I havent tried that one before. I want to bring in space travel as part of the game play, planetary action but also the day to day on-ship life type stuff, not sure how to keep it interesting though. I was thinking of using the same idea as KOTOR. Add each character to your team for each mission, based on who will perform what tasks. Sound boring?

Well they tell you... never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious.

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 11:16 AM

FIRESTALKER

I think that you can't have the same crew. You need an all new crew to do this well.

I have thought about this for a while. I was thinking about making an MMORPG[or the like]. If you can.

You can have a very extensive character design screen. Think EQ2 with picking everything from hair color to what color your eyes are.

Make it so that you can hire people to be in on your crew[PC or NPC]. You can have all sorts of stuff happen. You can have random events that happen on certain planets or have random reaver attacks in space.

The battle system can be PvP, third-person shooter type[think Syphon Filter]. You can shoot anyone you want, but if you do then you can get a warrant out for your arrest and PC bounty hunters can hunt you down.

Every planet has jobs, but some of the higher paying jobs you have to build a reputation for. Every planet has dangers and not every job will go right. Make each job have a random event that makes it go wrong or something. It'll make it not so predictable.

I have a lot more Ideas, but I can't get them all down right now without making it all jumbled and incoherent.

-------------------------------------------------
"You know what the definition of a hero is? Someone that gets other people killed."

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 11:22 AM

COMRAD85

Hey, I’m right there with you designing this game, and getting making it work. I got a small group of cg artists that can make the game a reality. Because I truly believe that this movie and series deserve to have a game made out of, So give me a shout if you feel inspired and determined in making it.

Alex

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 11:24 AM

JEEJARNG

Awsome ideas, ideally, I'd like to turn this into an immersive world (see everquest). I love the idea of having bounties based on actions, and maybe adding Alliance Intervention for illegal activities (see Grand Theft Auto). Also, while space flight is possible, i think v ery little space battles will happen, since not most ships would be cargo class. Keep em comin these are great!

Well they tell you... never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious.

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 12:08 PM

JEEJARNG

Alex,
Well the question now is what do we actually need to get this thing rolling. Seriously.
Designb, programmers and story. Let's see what we have so far and give it a shot. No rush on this end.

Well they tell you... never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious.

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 12:15 PM

DAVESHAYNE

Well it looks like your interested in a MMORPG kind of thing but you might want to check out the pen & paper Serenity RPG put out by Margaret Weis Productions. It's a good looking book and has some nifty ideas. Though it's more narativist in design so I don't know how well it would translate to a computer game.

David

You wanna go, Little Man?
Only if it's someplace nice with candle light.

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 1:50 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Ok, well first off, if Firefly was to become a game, it'd pretty much have to be a MMORPG. It's the only thing that'll fit a character driven show.

Now, in the above people have mentioned a number of different games that they'd like to see reflected in such a game. But, I didn't see one that fits near perfect; Star Wars Galaxies. I played the Beta and from what I saw it'd fits great with Firefly (with modifications of course).

Players can have the change to play both the alliance and the browncoats with also bounty hunters. Just wouldn't be the 'verse without some Jubel's running around, not to mention some hands of blue

Then it could be spun with some privateer type stuff in there too, to get a better Firefly flavour.

Now from what IMO the game should be to the problems with doing it.

Here's the BIG problem... bandwidth. I know I don't have a T-1 lying around unused and I'm pretty sure none of you have one either.

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade here. But, there is a practical aspect to a MMORPG's that individuals just can't do. And bandwidth is one of them.

So, I would gather that putting a graphical front-end to something of a MUD/MUSH like:

http://www.objectsinspace.com/

Would be the best bet for an approximation of a MMORPG.

But, even if we had the bandwidth, here's another... large problem.

http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html

This is rather a whole can of worms that is being opened. And no-one aside from those that have already made successful large scale MMORPG's have had any real experience with this. So, I'm thinking that no-one here does either.

Now, from what we can't do, onto what we can do.

IMO, the only real solution that we can do as individuals (that is realistic) is to make a standalone game (highly mod-ible) so that many stories can be written.

The only real problem here is cross-platform developement. IMO, there is enough MacOSX users here to make it a requirement that the game has to run on MacOSX. But, since we're already on a BSD based system, it wouldn't be any real trouble to generalize it further to the *BSD's (or at least make it easier through tech choices).

I've been (and am currently) involved in a cross-platform project. It has just gotten out of the tech choices phase and I've moved into making the base cross-platform code (right now a window just shows up. But, it'll run on MacOSX and OBSD as well). I'll probably get around to coding more next week (spring break) and could share it with those that would actually start something.

That is, if anyone is actually going to do something. No offense, but this has been brought up time and time again, and I've yet to see something come of these discussions.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 2:47 PM

JDUBASHI

A game would be a great idea, but them's expensive. I suggest modding KOTOR,or Freelancer if you don't want to ,make a new engine. Preferably KOTOR, its the only one I own

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Friday, February 10, 2006 10:06 AM

JEEJARNG

I think I need to get a copy of Serenity: The Official Visual Companion. I was told last night it gives a great background on the verse, government, etc. so I guess I will have to break down and get it some day soon, $$$ permitting.

Well they tell you... never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious.

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Friday, February 10, 2006 10:21 AM

THECRAZYIVAN

i know it would probably be hard to do as an independent project but a MMORPG like Star Wars Galaxies (just less lame.). Id be willing to pay at least 20 bucks a month playin a well made Firefly MMORPG...hell, you cant but a price for puttin yourseld in the 'verse

Of course if that doesnt work i think RPG style would be pretty cool but i would not complain for a FPS...Fireflyied Battlefront II would be pheominal.

~~~~~~~~~~
"There is a sense that this is still not over. It's hard to put a finger on what's so special about this project and about this group of people, but it's just one of those things you have to trust in, and relish. I am very, very proud."
---Jewel Staite on "Firefly" and "Serenity" in "Finding Serenity" (essay collection by Jane Espenson)

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Friday, February 10, 2006 2:22 PM

SIGMANUNKI

@Jeejarng:
That book is only about Serenity. So, its usefulness might be a might bit limited if you are trying to keep this a Firefly affair (which I hope you are).

@TheCrazyIvan:
This is more than just difficult. Let's run some numbers to see if I'm just talking out of my

. Just so people don't think I'm just being pessimistic; I'm just trying to lend some of my experience to people so they don't waste time on something that won't work out.

To get decently smooth movement, we'll need at least 30 frame per second (fps). Now we can trim that to 10 updates per second and use the client to approximate the inbetween frames. Nice, we just cut out updates requirements by 2/3.

Now let's just talk about positions of people moving that are already known to the client. There will have to be change-in updates of there position. To cut down on updates we can say that if something isn't moving then we just won't send the update. Yah, more bandwidth saving.

Now, the update will have to contain the change-in x,y,z coords. These will each be 16bit ints (2 bytes). So, each update per person totals, 6 bytes of information.

Thus, 60 bytes per second.

My pipe has a 30kBps upstream. I'm capable of doing this. Please keep in mind that I have a business class internet connection.

But, this is just for one other person on the server.

Let's make it more realistic.

Say there is 11 people on the server (no that's not an odd number, see below). Let's say further that they are all moving (not terribly unlikely).

Now, each of these people will have to keep track of 10 others. Which means that every client will need to have 10 updates. Using the above, each client will be getting a 600 bytes per second stream, or approx, 0.6kBps.

Now because there is 11 people on the server the server must server 11*0.6 kBps or 6.6 kBps. This will consume approx 1/5 of my pipe.

Now consider if there are 10 people that have 11 people including themselves in there general area, thus requiring updates. Then we're up to 2 times the capacity of my pipe. Now imagine 100's of people logged in and playing and consider those bandwidth requirements.

Basically, no matter how we swing it, the numbers just don't add up. And we haven't added in another 2 bytes per update to have a identifier for each update so that we know who/what's moving, etc. Now how about text (talking), and people entering and leaving the area updates? More and more bandwidth requirements.

If the project co-located the box on a T-1, then the bandwidth wouldn't be guaranteed and they'd have to pay for anything over a certain amount. And looking at the numbers, if this was anywhere near popular, even just among the people here, it would probably end up being a hefty fee even if the connection could handle it.

But, it'd probably require something better than a T-1 connection. See http://forums.speedguide.net/showthread.php?t=194246

So, this is kinda why I'm saying that a MMORPG isn't possible and anyone seriously considering making a Firefly/Serenity game should shy away from it and try to do a standalone one.

Also, as mentioned above, modding is an option and IMO, a better one than starting from scratch. That is unless there is a very good reason for starting from scratch.

For the record though. I'd love a Firefly MMORPG. It just can't come from one (or many) of us. *sigh*

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:14 PM

SIGMANUNKI

I think that I might have solved the bandwidth problem. Is anyone still interested?

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Friday, February 24, 2006 12:27 AM

DINKY

Hi! I'm a long time PC Gamer (pretty much all my life), I understand the capabilities of game developing and how far games can go!

I'm an expierenced modelor/animator (see the last few pages of this post: http://www.3vilution.us/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1476&start=30 ......... Ignore the crappy first few screenshots, those were early versions of the model) and if you, your friend and I can get together I am sure we can discuss a great gameplan for a full stand-alone game client or a MOD (which would be cheaper work wise and financially, and would still get noticed).

I already have a game engine in mind if we were to go in and create a MOD instead of a Stand Alone game.

Do either of you have Industry expierence, or any expierence at all?

"Th3re !s n0 spo0Ne." -The Matricks

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Friday, February 24, 2006 1:36 AM

JEEJARNG

I have experience with game concept design, selling the game to publishers, etc, and raising funds if necessary, but from a coding stand point, no I have very little experience there.

Well they tell you... never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 8:48 AM

SIGMANUNKI

I don't think that I'm part of that you guys, but programming a game is a large task. So, here's my experience.

I have a piece of paper that says that I'm a programmer. Also, I worked in industry as a web developer (PHP, Perl, etc) for a chunk of time and taught C++ at a local college for a summer (filled in for a guy that wanted to go on vacation).

I've also partially developed some game ideas that never got released to the public; one still in developement. Got some more complicated peices of code that, once the code gets cleaned up, will reach the public.

In general, I'm a nuts and bolts programmer. Don't really like doing graphics, but I live in the 'making things actually work' catagory.

Over the past couple years, I've been hobby programing (mainly Python, C/C++) and studying mathematics (victim of the dot bomb, but at any rate, the math will help).

But, what JeeJarng has just implied (please tell me I'm wrong) is that we should be developing this for profit. *shutter*

Let me explicitly state, that I'm not going to be involved in such a project. I'm pointing toward open source (license to be debated).

There is also some very good legal reasons for this decision. Corps tend to leave little fan projects alone if they don't earn any money. But, as soon as they start earning money, off a frachise that the own, these corps tend to get ornery. And then comes the cease and desist orders, and the sueing, etc.

I don't want to have to deal with any of that, and I'm certain neither does anyone here.

Also, if one was to try to develope a game for profit off the Firefly franchise, how much do you think the license fees will be? Damn straight they'd be out of any of our reach.

IMO, it's best to stick with a free game that is open source.

Hell, I've even finished some of the framework for the design (engine only) done.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Friday, February 24, 2006 11:17 AM

DINKY

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
IMO, it's best to stick with a free game that is open source....

I completely agree for the same reasons and more.

"Th3re !s n0 spo0Ne." -The Matricks

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Friday, February 24, 2006 12:28 PM

AGIRLYMAN

If you can't make it a MMORPG, I'll take a Kotor conversion, or even a third person shooter, wait...you know what...i'll take it in any form lol!

AM I NOT MERCIFUL?!?!?!?

Tee Hee

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