Word on the street(future possibilities) by FightingCrouton

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Word on the street(future possibilities)

POSTED BY: FIGHTINGCROUTON
UPDATED: Sunday, February 19, 2006 13:15
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 29679
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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 8:34 AM

I think we all would be overjoyed if this were true. But here's a thought: we should get ready. Even if CW doesn't offer "Serenity: the Series" this fall, it's still a good idea. We all want the verse to return to either the small or big screen. And more Browncoats never hurts (unless they're all in a crowded elevator together).

We all know that Firefly got cancelled for bad ratings, and Serenity did okay but not great. With $25 million in domestic box office, at an average of about $7 a ticket, that means 3.5 million tickets. Since many of us saw it numerous times, that implies less than 3 million 'original' viewers. When CW forms, they're gonna add affiliates from both UPN and WB, and presumably get close to FOX viewership numbers. That means they'll want to see viewers! Considering the genre shows that got cancelled with below 6.0 ratings, we'll need at least 6 million viewers to keep Serenity: the Series on the air. Or to make any future incarnation of the verse viable. And the higher the ratings, the better!!

In short, we need to keep recruiting, same as we have been! Now's not the time to stop lending out DVDs. Even if it takes years, we'll eventually need more Browncoats.

Off on a rant again SickdudeIsAll

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 8:37 AM

SICKDUDE

In other words, the WORST possible outcome is to see a second show cancelled also!

"It's a cow."

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 8:57 AM

GUN4HIRE

sometimes hope is all we need. I've loved firefly since i watched it on the evil Fox Network way back when. I gave up on it returning until Serenity came out. That movie rekindled my love affair with it. Even if this turns out to be nothing, I'll take a little hope over a lot of nothing.

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 9:32 AM

STORYMARK

I'm not getting my hopes up too high, but I think it could be a real possibility, regardless of naysayers - including some things Joss has said.

As someone mentioned above, if something was in the works, even if it was only being discussed, Joss may not say anything for a number of reasons. One of those being that if he said so much as "it might, maybe, probably not, but possibly happen", there would be a lot of Browncoats cheering in the streets (figuratively....in most cases at least). And if that deal then fell through, there'd be a LOT of very depressed Browncoats.

A second reason is, it's often a contractual agreement not to talk about a show under consideration untill all the ink is dry.

And sure, Joss said the phone wasn't ringing, but that doesn't rule out email or face to face conversation. As streatch, I admit, but I also wouldn't put that type of subterfuge past Joss.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 9:34 AM

DOG13000

AIIIN'T THEY JUST!

"Someone Ever Tries to Kill You, You Try and Kill Em' Right Back"

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 9:47 AM

DOG13000

Quote:
Originally posted by Sickdude:
We all know that Firefly got cancelled for bad ratings, and Serenity did okay but not great. Since many of us saw it numerous times, that implies less than 3 million 'original' viewers. When CW forms, they're gonna add affiliates from both UPN and WB, and presumably get close to FOX viewership numbers. That means they'll want to see viewers! Considering the genre shows that got cancelled with below 6.0 ratings, we'll need at least 6 million viewers to keep Serenity: the Series on the air. Or to make any future incarnation of the verse viable. And the higher the ratings, the better!!

Ratings. Ratings, Ratings, Ratings. Networks do not have some magic system of counting how many TVs are tuned into their shows. They grab random people, shove them in a room and see what they think.

With that said, I would like to say a few things.

First off, WHO THE HELL were the 'random people' that originally saw Firefly, and DIDN'T give it a good rating. EVERYONE who gives the show the time of day loves it.

Second Off, Movie Sales. There are a lot of people who are fans, but didn't go see the BDM in theaters. Some people can't afford it (the show wasn't on cable after all...), others might not have a movie theater for miles, and others yet might just not be the movie goin' type. I know people in all of these situations.

Third OFf, Fan Base. In the time between the cancellation of the show and the BDM, the fan base probally quadruppled. In the time since the BDM was released, that number has at least doubled. With all these fans AND advertising on TV, the show could probaly have more fans then Supernatrual, West Wing, Everyone hates Chris, and most of the other garbage that is on Network TV combined. All that has to be done is putting it in a good time slot. NOT wendsdays at 7 when half of america (everyone but me) is watching American Idol, and Not Fridays at 8, when nobody is watching TV, ect.

now, that's a rant....

"Someone Ever Tries to Kill You, You Try and Kill Em' Right Back"

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:28 AM

AMITON

I'm not trying to speak in absolutes, and I claim no extensive knowledge beforehand! Layman with a poor memory writing = me!

Anyway, I read an article a few weeks back that didn't necessarily have to do with Firefly, but it made me draw the eventual parallel conclusions. They were talking about ratings and show success. The thing that caught my eye was that what really mattered to the networks (by way of what's important to the advertisers) was a specific demographic. The 16 to 29 year old demographic if I remember correctly. They want success with this demographic for two reasons...they spend money more freely, and they tend not to have predetermined buying habits or brand loyalty.

The article went on to say from a few different ways that a network would consider a program a failure if it didn't catch this demographic, even if it did extremely well with other demographics, again, because older viewers control their money a lot more and tend to already like certain products over others. Advertisers obviously don't like such behaviors and as such wouldn't be as interested in buying time on that particular broadcast.

That made me think about two other things - the broad demographic appeal of Firefly, and what exactly is "doing well" on TV. We all complain that TV seems to cater to the lowest common denominator and throws itself shamelessly at the MTV crowd. Well, yes, it does exactly that, and this is why. Reality shows, celebrity mindbilge, and investivative cop shows all fit that demographic extremely well, too, for the same reasons that advertising is more effective. School sucks, there is a ton of encouragement to grow mentally, and in direct contrast, mindless entertainment is a great break from mind-numbing homework and papers.

I'm not trying to demean the younger set of flans, nor am I trying to say that this is absolute truth or that I can honestly say I have a clue about the reality of the business. What I am inferring is that we may be fighting an even harder battle than we thought.

We constantly ask ourselves "How could Fox cancel such a great show??" as do several other fandoms (but we're special and the best =p). Well...we have a lot of diversity in our little band here. Not to mention, we have a significant presence from outside the US as well. I'm worried that part of the reason we're not more effective or convincing is the very basis of our strength - we're all over the spectrum of humanity.

In as far as the Nielson ratings, I'm convinced it's more than a little dodgy. I was in the random sample of the Nielson ratings about ten years ago (a product, I trust of my wife at the time registering for every product survey and ad campaign that spammed our email). We got a little book that told us to write down what we watched on TV during a specific period of time. Not how was it, not have you watched it before...just a TV log. After that, we never heard hide nor hair about anything again. They don't care if you like it, they just want to know if it's on your TV.

Amiton.

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:35 AM

MILFORD

I also received a Neilson booklet. They told us to write down everything we watch on each TV. At the time there were three TVs in our home (not all working, but that's irrelevant). Even though FF was cancelled by then I did take the opportunity to write a the end of the diary in the "Comments" section that had FF been on I would still watch it and that I loved it, and so on. I think I filled all three diaries with FF propaganda. And what happened? Nada. They are the fools. We are the mighty.

Remember, that but for one trifling exception, the entire universe is made up of others.- Oliver Wendall Holmes

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:37 AM

DOG13000

Hey! Being 16 i take offense to that!

Quote:
Originally posted by Amiton:
The 16 to 29 year old demographic if I remember correctly. They want success with this demographic for two reasons...they spend money more freely, and they tend not to have predetermined buying habits or brand loyalty.

Oh...wait...
*Puts away wallet buying random crap, and a Jayne Hat* Yep. Spending money more freely and buying more firefly stuff is what I do....

"Someone Ever Tries to Kill You, You Try and Kill Em' Right Back"

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 11:03 AM

TRIBES

Joss quote on Whedonesque

"Serenity sequel! My phone is silent and withdrawn."

Maybe this is a bit of a stretch, but... meaning... no ph. calls from 'versal for a Serenity sequel DOES NOT mean no ph. calls from CW for a return of Firefly to TV in some form. Maybe he just could not say anything at the time.

Maybe just Maybe.
Just like that raw gutsy bluesy Janice Joplin song.

MAYBE
"All that I could pray
And I try Dear
Ya might come back home ... home to me"
MAYBE

Just sayin and hopin.

Peace
Serenity

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 11:33 AM

GUERILLATHEATRE

Quote:
I heard that maybe there was gonna be a HD Serenity DVD. But are you saying FireFly too? And you seem to talk about it as if you already *did* see both in HD.

Please, enlighten me?

There are several DVD players out that do 720p , 1080i and even 1080p upconversions. I own a Samsung DVD HD-485. Using a DVI cable connected to my Mitsubishii HDTV it takes the standard 480i DVD signal and upgrades it to 1080i.

Soon they will be releasing HD DVDs and Blue Ray Discs which will be in native 1080i and allow for 1080p upconversion. You'll need a special player for that but it'll be slightly better quality than those in existence today.

If you have an HDTV (and if you don't: What the heck are you waiting for. They're cheap now!) you can buy an upconverting DVD player for about $200. It's highly worth it if you want to really see the detail in the Firefly series and Serenity movie.

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 11:36 AM

CARRIE

What is CW?

Carrie

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 11:49 AM

NEVERED

Quote:
Originally posted by dog13000:
Hey! Being 16 i take offense to that!

Quote:
Originally posted by Amiton:
The 16 to 29 year old demographic if I remember correctly. They want success with this demographic for two reasons...they spend money more freely, and they tend not to have predetermined buying habits or brand loyalty.

Oh...wait...
*Puts away wallet buying random crap, and a Jayne Hat* Yep. Spending money more freely and buying more firefly stuff is what I do....

"spend money more freely" does not mean "buy lots of show merchandise"

basically, they want people without previous brand affiliation to watch their show because the advertisers will pay more to advertise for the show if they know that the viewers have not already become attached to other brands.

being in the demographic that is easily influenced to make brand affiliatios that will last the rest of their lives makes you valuable for exactly that reason.

if you've been watching Ford commercials on firefly for three years, when you go to buy your first car, the advertisers are counting on their advertisements then, and since it's your first car, chances are they've won you over as a customer for every car you buy after that, even after you stop seeing their commercials.

the 16 to 29 year old demographic are the people who are in the process of forming the routine that will guide the rest of their lives. advertising to you then means that their products will become a part of the rest of your lifelong routine.

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 11:59 AM

OLDFOGEY

Quote:
Originally posted by nevered:

the 16 to 29 year old demographic are the people who are in the process of forming the routine that will guide the rest of their lives. advertising to you then means that their products will become a part of the rest of your lifelong routine.

Sounds like Blue Sun to me.

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 12:17 PM

DAISYDANA

Hearing this almost totally makes up for the fact that the only Valentine's I got today were from my family, friends, and one guy at the office that has more than a passing resemblance to Badger!

"They have boy whores! Isn't that thoughtful?"
-Kaylee

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:20 PM

ZIPPLY

Quote:
Originally posted by oldfogey:
Sounds like Blue Sun to me.

MacDonald's... Coca-Cola... Disney.... Blue Sun learned a lot from those that preceeded it!

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:29 PM

SICKDUDE

Carrie, CW is the new TV network forming in the fall from the merger of UPN and WB (more or less).

Quote:
Originally posted by dog13000:
Ratings. Ratings, Ratings, Ratings. Networks do not have some magic system of counting how many TVs are tuned into their shows. They grab random people, shove them in a room and see what they think.

With that said, I would like to say a few things.

First off, WHO THE HELL were the 'random people' that originally saw Firefly, and DIDN'T give it a good rating. EVERYONE who gives the show the time of day loves it.

Second Off, Movie Sales. There are a lot of people who are fans, but didn't go see the BDM in theaters. Some people can't afford it (the show wasn't on cable after all...), others might not have a movie theater for miles, and others yet might just not be the movie goin' type. I know people in all of these situations.

Third OFf, Fan Base. In the time between the cancellation of the show and the BDM, the fan base probally quadruppled. In the time since the BDM was released, that number has at least doubled. With all these fans AND advertising on TV, the show could probaly have more fans then Supernatrual, West Wing, Everyone hates Chris, and most of the other garbage that is on Network TV combined. All that has to be done is putting it in a good time slot. NOT wendsdays at 7 when half of america (everyone but me) is watching American Idol, and Not Fridays at 8, when nobody is watching TV, ect.

Dog13000, please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this is bad, or this won't work. I'm just saying more fans would be better. In fact, overwhelming numbers and millions of Browncoats would be best. Whether there's a show soon, a show later, a BDM sequel later, whatever. So we should keep doing what we have been doing: converting more recruits!

Also, I don't think people saw Firefly on Fox and gave it a bad rating, I think not enough people saw it on Fox at all.

"It's a cow."

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:41 PM

DINKY

Yeah I don't like Fox at all anymore, and it's not just because of Firefly.

They've had to cancel other shows for bad ratings as well, but yet they are being brought back today.

Futurama was canceled, they liked to move the show times around a whole lot for that show, it goes on Adult Swim and is revived, I hear the show is being started up again somewhere.

Family guy another canceled show revived by Adult Swim has already been restarted. I am pretty sure Family Guy was a FOX show right?

Fox just aren't good at all with television programming. I've some good feelin's 'bout Firefly returnin' :D :D.

"Th3re !s n0 spo0Ne." -The Matricks

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:53 PM

FENCINGMASTER

About time for some good news!!!

I'm past the sword fighting phase...

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 2:04 PM

MYCROFTXXX

Just keep all of this in perspective. Joss and no doubt the others involved in any future Firefly/Serenity project is going to be VERY close lipped about this project UNTIL they actually start shooting. Likely we'll find out about it through some third party like the caterers or the SFX companies and NOT from the core production unit. At least, not until the official CW (or whoever bankrolls this) PR comes out.

One small personal opinion on the whole WB/UPN thing... don't you find it a bit ironic that UPN, the same network that gave us the Star Trek franchise (or at least part of it) is involved? Coincidence? Maybe not. My bet is on a new Firefly with a stronger emphasis on the Sci-Fi and less on the western genre. I'd miss the latter but if it meant saving the show, so be it. In my mind it has always been about the cast and their relationship to one another and the ship.

Okay, flame on!

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 3:01 PM

DONCOAT

Okay, I'm keeping the hope under control. But I do have hope.

And here is the form my hope takes:

I hope that my Big Damn Pass for the December Flanvention II goes to waste, because the BDHs can't attend, because they're too busy shooting Firefly Season Two for CW.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 3:02 PM

DONCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by daisydana:
Hearing this almost totally makes up for the fact that the only Valentine's I got today were from my family, friends, and one guy at the office that has more than a passing resemblance to Badger!

Will you be my Valentine, daisydana?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 3:34 PM

FORDAITH

It strongly seems like more and more signs point to this happening. It's just too conencidental to have all three of them leaving at the same time.

Believe me, I will by a TiVo just for this!

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 3:37 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Yup, my hopes are up, more than a little. The WB and UPN both had early successes with Joss shows (Buffy and Angel, respectively), so it's almost like he's "among family" over there already.

Also, as I've pointed out before, I think the SciFi network is the *logical* place for a Firefly resurrection - but if the CW wants to start bidding on it, more power to 'em. It would be sweet if both networks wanted it, and had to outbid each other in efforts to land the show.

I know that's pie-in-the-sky dreaming, but if you're going to dream, why not dream big? And what's the harm in hoping? If it doesn't happen, it's not like anyone promised me it would. Only that it *could*. I feel confident we haven't seen the last of our Big Damn Heroes on the screen, be it big screen or small. It might take a year, two years, three or ten, but they'll be back. I'm sure of it.

Now, another thing to think about: If you're a fledgling network and need to fill some time slots with something that will bring in that oh-so-important 16-29-year-old demographic, would you rather resurrect a "failed" series that comes with around 3 million all-but-guaranteed viewers, or would you rather roll the dice on something like "Ellen's Reasons Why Not" (cancelled after ONE episode!), which comes with exactly ZERO guaranteed viewers? Me, I'd try to anchor at least one time slot to a show that's already got a proven-loyal fanbase already installed. 'Course, maybe that's why I'm not a network programmer (that and that pesky soul I haven't been able to get rid of!)

Just a few thoughts to conjure on,

MikeIsAll Hoping

A baby seal walks into a club...

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 3:53 PM

DAISYDANA

Awww shucks DonCoat! That made me smile! I can always count on fellow Browncoats to make the day rock!

"They have boy whores! Isn't that thoughtful?"
-Kaylee

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:37 PM

FIREFLYSREDEMPTION

OK fellow Browncoats heres the score. We have a new super power coming into being. We have also been incredibly effective at developing a fanbase for a show that was cancelled after one season FOUR YEARS AGO! We ARE the mighty and we CAN accomplish great feats. The only Thing we are lacking now is a singular focus, a strategy. We need to strike while the iron is hot and force ourselves down the throat of the enemy, no longer shall we sit and hold this valley while the alliance grows in power, I say we take back lost ground now! I am sure that while there isnt a site for CW yet their perponents the WB and that other thing have sites to write to. We need to make our intentions known to CW and to Joss, let him know that reinforcements have arrived.If all we do is sit around and hope, how will anything be accomplished. We need to fight! If you are going to hope, hope for victory!

"Once youve been inside Serenity, you never leave"

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 6:20 PM

FURIOUSMONKEYBOY

faces@thewb.com - here is the email for th WB's feedback

Itried to find something for UPN..but there is no Email...only a webbased form that specifys: "do not submit...any ideas or suggestions for new television programs ("Unsolicited Ideas"). UPN's policy is to discard all Unsolicited Ideas. " - so they're probably no listening..

I've already sent emails to both..ya'll should do the same... but I have a query... does Fox not have rights to the series(did they ever) or is it just up for grabs to whomever wants to pick it up?

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 6:28 PM

BLAZESOLO

"The dreamer dreams on and dreams never die as long as we try..........we are riders to the stars". Can't remember who wrote it, but it seems very appropriate for this topic!

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 6:41 PM

FIREFLYSREDEMPTION

This is a copy of the email I sent to the address provided above to WB. I encourage all of my fellow Browncoats to do the same as soon as possible. Lets lay down some cover fire!

I am but one of a massive fanbase of a show known as FireFly. We are aware that a new entity is coming into being known as CW. We are also aware that the current focus is on viewers of my age group, (16-29). I understand enough about business and risk to know that a new show that has zero fanbase is merely a potential loss, a shot in the dark if you will. It is true however that a show with an established fanbase has much more potential to drive your ratings and your viewer base as there is already a foundation on which to build. Not to mention that this fanbase has more than quadrupled since the shows "cancellation" four years ago. That tells me that there are devoted followers ready to drive the new CW entity should they pick up the FireFly series. I hope that your industry realizes that the new face of the public requires stimulation and depth. I believe that the downfall of the show originally was due to the fact that those backing it did not want a story that actually pulled the audience in, they wanted mindless "no brains required" programming. Again I sincerely hope that reason will win over the new CW entity in this way; you will have a gaurunteed following at the shows inception, and you will be providing something new and unique from one of the greatest minds in script writing.
Thank you for your time and concideration.

Lathen Carlson

"Once youve been inside Serenity, you never leave"

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 6:43 PM

CHICKENHED

I don't want to hope too much.

Wait yes I do.

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 8:25 PM

THEONETRUEBIX

*bzzt*

http://whedonesque.com/comments/9548

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Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:37 PM

FIREFLYSREDEMPTION

Umm, ok what the heck does that post on Whedonsque mean? I just dont get his sense of humor.

"Once youve been inside Serenity, you never leave"

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Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:09 PM

THEONETRUEBIX

Quote:
Originally posted by FireflysRedemption:
Umm, ok what the heck does that post on Whedonsque mean? I just dont get his sense of humor.

Ok. But all you really need to know is in the beginning: "Call me joss Whedon: Rumor Crusher!"

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Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:06 AM

AVERARDUS

I have never ever wanted a TV show in my whole life, but I want my Firefly!!!

Please, please, please

Peace~
Aver

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Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:50 PM

SILVERSURFER

I'm yet another recent fan that wants this bad....how many new fans are there? I've seen some on other message boards.

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Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:50 PM

SILVERSURFER

Sorry double post.....but yeah, CW has to understand that DVD sales would also be monumental and the thing would just keep building and building.

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Saturday, February 18, 2006 7:58 AM

FIREFLYSREDEMPTION

i agree wholeheartedly. I think that we need to make sure our presence is stronger than ever. FIREFLYFANS.NET is even listed in the special features of Serenity! Lets pull off another miracle.

"Once youve been inside Serenity, you never leave"

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Sunday, February 19, 2006 1:15 PM

BARD

I'll be in my bunk.

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