Can we legally form a church? by Hixie129

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Can we legally form a church?

POSTED BY: HIXIE129
UPDATED: Monday, March 6, 2006 15:29
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VIEWED: 23928
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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 5:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BrowncoatGhost:
Should I be disturbed, ashamed, incredulous or dying of laughter that this was the very first thread this late volunteer to the Browncoats has read here? Perhaps a combination of all the above? I know the last certainly applies.

In any case, I seem to have found my unit at last. And Cap'n Tightpants has a plow, not a maypole, gorram it -- though I suppose it could be turned into a maypole if it were b --

*cough* Sorry, can't continue. My voice seems to be frightening the cattle. Maybe if I droned...

'And when the brightness of the 'verse was shut away in the oblivion of the hungry fox spirit, lo, did one and a thousandscore Browncoats raise their voices in keening grief and outrage. "Thou hast forsaken us!" cried they. "Nay, I have forgotten thee not," intoned The Whedon from yonder golden hills in the Valley of Serenity, "for this 'verse was created of mine very heart and blood and soul, and yea, its loss too pains me. Thus shall I toil ceaselessly until it is restored and one and all may once again partake of its shininess." In harmonious unison did the Browncoats cry their relief, but yet again spake The Whedon, "Alas, the wounds to mine heart and blood and soul have been grievous and many, and thus shall I require of thine aid. Go forth and speak of Serenity and her nine shiny souls that those beyond shall awaken the Browncoats within them, for yea, a true Browncoat well knows when injustice has been done to one and all, and none will stand to allow one's fellow Browncoats to twist in the wind thus. So shall each Browncoat rally to our shindig, until the noise we make is so great that oblivion shall be rendered asunder and the hungry fox spirit cannot help but return the 'verse which is rightfully ours. Fear not the long nights filled with Reavers ahead, my devoted, for although it take uncounted sunsets, no one can take the sky from us." Thus did The Whedon's Browncoats set forth and speak of Serenity and her nine shiny souls, and thus do the armies of Independence grow. Yea, with the steadfastness of fireflies burning in their hearts and true serenity glowing in their eyes do they yet march forth, until such a sunset as This Land is returned them as is just and proper. And none who send of the signal hath The Whedon ever forgotten.'

*peers about* Good, looks like the cattle's gone to sleep. Then again, maybe I need sleep more, seeing as I had only three hours last night and can only blame this post on too many strawberries.

Hi BrownCoatGhost,

Welcome aboard,

The Cap'n does have a plow, it can be worshipped it any manner, spiritual or physical, There can be icons made of it. The maypole is another form of worship, both are acceptable.. Worshiping of the Apostles/Saints/Relics/Icons/Angels etc, in any manner is acceptable in all forms.

That was a very good verse you wrote: Do you have title, should it be a psalm or is it part of the Song of Songs.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 6:27 AM

Ok, if not a Religion, then say...Military? Hey if those Star Wars guys can have a 501th legion, why not Serenity Valley Vets?

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 7:09 AM

HIXIE129

I think we are decided that it's religion.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 8:20 AM

FRANKIE

I'm still not comfortable worshiping Joss Whedon. As much as I love him, he's a human person, and that just doesn't work in my brain.

I don't think we should have to base the firefly religion off of the christian bible, considering the fact that the show isn't Christian. Sure, there are Christian elements, but there are also Buddhist elements which you're not even taking into account. Joss could simply be the Buddah, enlightened through trials.

Ooo, and here's a new good arument: If you're making Joss the "Messiah" the characters can't be apostles because they aren't his followers. They don't even inhabit the same plane of existance as him. If you are using the chirstian model, that doesn't make sense, unless you make one of the characters the Messiah (which I'm in no way suggesting).

I don't think we even need a God figure, as the message of the show isn't that worshipping anything actually helps anything. The show follows more of a "do what's right, and don't worry about the after life" senario. In the words of Mal "I aint lookin' for help from on high. That's a long wait for a train don't come." It seems to me that this "religion" should be more free form, allowing each member to worship their diety of choice.

The fact that Saffron is hot does not qualify her for apostlehood. Her character is more of an outsider. She tempts and torments them without us ever really finding out why. Joss hadn't finished explaining her, clearly, but as she is she doesn't represent the beliefs and attitudes that I want to take from the Firefly 'Verse. Of course you can do whatever you like, but I don't know that it can be made official without some kind of group agreement.

And on that strain, you seem to be taking a "we all agree" stance on your opinions, without anyone really backing you up. If everyone really does agree with you, that's fine, but I think before anything can be officially made part of this new "religion" a majority has to agree on it.

Also, I don't think you can make a branch that's really a gun, an angel. I mean... everybody loves the branch, but it's not a person. It's just an object.

I think we disagree on too many subjects, unfortunately. I'm afraid I won't be joining your church. Which is a shame, because I really like the doctrine, just not the interpretation.

Say... that's why I left the other churches... lol.

_______________________________________

this is the captain. we have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then... explode.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 9:23 AM

HIXIE129

Frankie, best wishes to you in your spiritual search.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 11:07 AM

HIXIE129

I think a couple of people are missing the point….. This is supposed to be funny! Do not give notice to your current church that you are going to leave it. We are NOT going to buy a ranch in Ghana and drink Kool-Aid. Got it?

Just think, let your imagination go, and try to keep it with-in this Christian church form. I am sorry that this is the church form; it is what I am familiar with, 16 years of a Catholic education. Graduate school was the first time I attended a none Catholic institution. BUT on my very first post I had asked if someone wanted to add an eastern flavor to the church. After a 100 posts on this thread its now really late. The best thing to do is to start a separate Eastern Religion.

So… back to imagination, Church gets started, bible created, we sell out the RCA Superdome for a Church Revival. Imagine everybody seated and Apostles walk down center aisle while hymns are being sung and Amazing Joss by Melam. The big stadium screens flashing different episodes, a couple of people do readings from the bible, kind of like a Mass. Then during the Mass, together, we all eat the strawberry and drink the muddersmilk at the same time (probably a little bottle of Bailey's like the one you get on an airplane, but with a muddersmilk label). Everybody cheers and gives the person next to you a brotherly kiss.

All over the world people on different feast days of the Apostles/Saints/Angels etc…. people have created their different traditions for worshiping the favorites. Different sects and religious orders are formed, including and not limited to… Mal maypole day and the Feast Day of the Archangel Branch.

I become a Monk and form a monastic sect "the Order of River's Feet". I move to a cave in the Sinai Desert where I live and worship River's Feet. I write the Order's by-laws. Things like which color to paint her toenails on her feast days and Holidays. Thinking about the Christmas holidays, do we paint her nails red on the left foot and green on the right or do we alternate colors, green, red, green, red, green, etc. Do I start with the left foot or do I start with the right foot. Do I start with green or red? I must meditate on this!

You see there is so much to do. It's important because this tradition will be passed on from generation to generation, millennium to millennium until the verse to come.

It would also be great to have a Monkette join me in my religious fervor!!!!

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 11:33 AM

KAYNA

I love my captain

There can be a break off sect of this religion that uses a more eastern kind of thinking. I actually like the Buddah idea. I think the reason you haven't gotten much about the eastern influence is that many of us just aren't that familiar with it.
I myself had made suggestians along the christian lines but I went to a UB church when I was little and honestly haven't been in any church for about 10 years. The catholic intricasies (that word is spelled wrong

) kinda give me an uncomfortableness.
I realize that this is meant to be fun and it is but that is what I think

...On a different note I don't care if you like the maypole or the the plow, they both represent fertility and the sowing of seeds and such (thee hee. I am evil yes? ) I just like the idea of dancing around Mal with ribbons (ribbons have so many possibilities) and yes I know that it would really be Nathan but a girl can dream can't she?

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 11:47 AM

HIXIE129

Your right Kayna, and I would have been totally happy with Budda if someone would have walked us thru it. But since it didn't happen I went with what I knew.

I think we have come this far, we should continue in this direction. I don't know how much gas is left in this tank.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 2:28 PM

AYATOLLAHKHOMEINI

[img]

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
I don't know how much gas is left in this tank.

Ayatollah Khomeini sez:

Why dont we use that remaining gas in the tank to douse ourselves and light a match to speed up the process of going to hell. I would rather shave my beard than join the "church" of Serenity.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 3:01 PM

PINBALLWIZARD

Don't be so hasty in what you believe is all I'm going to say. Belief can halp you accomplish incredible things, inexplicable things. But it can also be your downfall, and can provide the opertunity for scam artists to leave you pennyless.
Plus, forming our own church would put us in the same catagory as Scientologists.

And then we'd be related to Tom Cruise too.

Don't even think about getting support from him either. The man didn't understand Pirates of the Caribbean, he won't understand us.

No, I am not insane, I am crazy. Thank you for asking.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 3:50 PM

BROWNCOATGHOST

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
That was a very good verse you wrote: Do you have title, should it be a psalm or is it part of the Song of Songs.

Thanks for the compliment and the welcome!

Hm, if we're following a model of the Christian bible, I'd say it probably belongs in the book of Exodus -- to the Rim, that is.

As to incorporating more Eastern/Asian influence into this fun little kluge, I suppose it depends which belief systems we'd be drawing from. I've studied some Shintoism, Zen Buddhism and Taoism, but with the exception of Christianity popping up here and there in the series, it's hard to tell what the dominant belief system of the 'verse is, or indeed whether it even has one. Did Herr Whedon ever elaborate on that at all?

As it is, the Asian influence in the 'verse seems a mixture of Chinese, Japanese and Indian. As an example, I offer Inara herself. The way she acts and works is very similar to a traditional Japanese geisha, but the major difference is that geisha are highly-skilled, high-class entertainers who do not provide sexual services to their clients; in truth, not being prostitutes was what defined them as geisha in the first place. During WWII, prostitutes dressed in semi-fancy clothing and called themselves geisha when they really weren't, but the Westerners who came to Japan were quite ignorant of the difference and so took away with them the mistaken impression that 'geisha' is synonymous with 'whore', a notion which still lingers today. Many of the clothing and architectural designs in the 'verse are Chinese-influenced, yet at the end of 'Our Mrs. Reynolds', Inara's wearing an outfit which looks to be of Indian cut.

So yeah, I suppose it depends on what we could think of that would fit, heh.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 4:25 PM

HIXIE129

Hi BrownCoatGhost,

I liked "to the Rim and back" referring to Exodus. I think it would be great to have the entire "Complete Testament" which is Buffy/Angel as Old Testament, and New Testament, which is what we are working on with Serenity and Firefly. I know it is not possible to do both Old and New at the same time.. It would have to be broken up into different groups and threads.

As I said in my previous post that an Asian theme would have been possible if we started it from the beginning, but not now, at least for this thread.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 4:56 PM

HIXIE129

Hi pinballwizard,

The only support we want is from browncoats, I really don't know anything about Scientologists and I had never liked Cruise, well except for Top Gun.
I loved Pirates of the Caribbean.

Next Joss took the cup, and when He had given thanks He gave it to us saying, "Drink of it, all of you; for this is Mudders Milk and its 15% alcohol. So we now do this in remembrance of Firefly

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 5:18 PM

CEDRIC

This whole discussion is high-larious.

Well, except the parts by people who took it seriously, and that guy who refuses to hope for a sequel.

In any case, I would like to propose a hymnal that includes Amazing Joss, Mal's Song, The Hero of Canton, The Ballad of Joss, Fruity Oaty Bars, Big Damn Trilogy, On the Drift, Self-Esteem is For Everybody (from Angel's Smile Time), and of course, Sail the Sky, which the author actually characterizes as a hymn.

Praise Joss and Pass the Strawberries!

"Some things stay with you, 'til the day you die."
On the Drift: Music Inspired by Firefly and Serenity, now on sale at
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bedlambards/from/celtic

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 5:21 PM

HIXIE129

Cedric, that is an excellent idea!!!!

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Thursday, March 2, 2006 4:23 AM

SERENITYSLITTLEANGEL

Quote:
I think it would be great to have the entire "Complete Testament" which is Buffy/Angel as Old Testament, and New Testament, which is what we are working on with Serenity and Firefly.

Fantastic idea. Someone should write these!!!! I've already made my own hymnbook from:

Quote:
Amazing Joss, Mal's Song, The Hero of Canton, The Ballad of Joss, Fruity Oaty Bars, Big Damn Trilogy, On the Drift, Self-Esteem is For Everybody (from Angel's Smile Time), and of course, Sail the Sky

Except the Angel song - cos I can't find the lyrics. Anyone have them??

Keep up the good work, guys!!! We need to get this bible written.

------------------------------------
20 conversions and counting!!!

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Thursday, March 2, 2006 6:56 AM

PENGUIN

Ayatollah Khomeini says:

"How can you start a church based off of a TV show that was cancelled in its first season?"

Churches/religions have been started on much less!

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Thursday, March 2, 2006 8:30 AM

HIXIE129

Hi SLAngel,

Thats great, give me a little while and I will look for Angel song.

Joss took a strawberry, and blessed it, and gave it to Kaylee and said, Take, and eat. This is part of my script. And she did. So we now do this in remembrance of Firefly.

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Thursday, March 2, 2006 11:37 AM

JAYNESBUNKWOMAN

I love this thread - very amusing!! Except for some who take it way too seriously and are negative...

If characters =apostles=saints then we have Saint Jayne, the hero of Canton. How funny is that!! ANd whoever had those items as holy relics - definitely. I think we should add Jaynes shirt from "he's looks better in red". And maybe the bullet Mal took in OUtta Gas.

And if we take it that each of these saints has characteristics, as per one of the posts above (can't remember whose it is)here's what could follow:

Saint Mal - steadfastness (Hold until i get back. Worhsipped around his, er, a maypole and/or plow (gotta keep followmal happy)
Saint Zoe - friendship (Can I have your share if you die, sir?)
Saint Wash - Flexibity (i'm a leaf on the wind...)
Saint Kaylee - wholesomeness (is that even a word?)Worshipped in the engine room, 'cause she's esp. pretty when her face is covered in grease.
Saint Jayne - focused (lets see now, 10% of nothing is, carry the. Worshipped in his bunk, where he can start gettin' sexed already. (I'm on my way Jayne - hold, hold till I get there)
Saint Inara - Sensuality (Would you like to know what exactly I do Jayne - well i ain't tellin')(he'll be in his bunk)Worshipped in a bewroom full of comfy soft things, like her.
Saint River or Saint river's feet - ??
SAint Simon - respect ???

As for Saffron, she is obviously temptation, the devil or the like.

And we the disciples shall make our pilgrammage to the site of Flanvention and worship at the altars and feet of our saints. We shall congregate in masses and wear the browncoats of the pilgrim, thus declaring ourselves to the verse so that all shall know of our power and devotion. We shall cast out the spawn of satan and be not tempted when temptation is thrust upon us.We shall kneel in prayer and take communion of the milk of the mudders, berries of the saint, and protein tasting like chocolate. And thus we shall hold, HOLD[\b] until the almighty resurrection[\b] and our saints are reborn unto us.

teehee

I'll be in Jaynes bunk

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Thursday, March 2, 2006 11:44 AM

FOLLOWMAL

Quote:
Originally posted by jaynesbunkwoman:
I love this thread - very amusing!!

Saint Mal - steadfastness (Hold until i get back. Worhsipped around his, er, a maypole and/or plow (gotta keep followmal happy)

Damn straight! Er.. sorry for cussin'.

Quote:
And we the disciples shall make our pilgrammage to the site of Flanvention and worship at the altars and feet of our saints. We shall congregate in masses and wear the browncoats of the pilgrim, thus declaring ourselves to the verse so that all shall know of our power and devotion. We shall cast out the spawn of satan and be not tempted when temptation is thrust upon us.We shall kneel in prayer and take communion of the milk of the mudders, berries of the saint, and protein tasting like chocolate. And thus we shall hold, HOLD[\b] until the almighty resurrection[\b] and our saints are reborn unto us.

teehee

JBW, you crack me up.

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Thursday, March 2, 2006 4:22 PM

HIXIE129

Hi jaynesbunkwoman,

Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Thank GOD, You really got it! That was wonderful! you understand all of it.

You are a High Priestess, A Pillar of the Church, Defender of the Faith, Against all heresies or heretics. I give you a brotherly kiss.

Also, Saint River's feet could be the patron saint of travelers, or you would pray to the feet if you have medical problems with your feet, or if you have ugly feet. You could worship her feet because you think they are the sexiest little things in the whole world and because you want to know what each little toe is doing :)

St Simon could be the saint of families, patience, doctors etc..

Whoever, therefore, eats the strawberry or drinks the cup of MuddersMilk in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning church and he will go to that special hell that is reserved for child molesters and people who talk in theaters.

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Thursday, March 2, 2006 4:44 PM

DAVESHAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by jaynesbunkwoman:
Saint River or Saint river's feet - ??

Saint River - Insight. (He's afraid. Afraid we'll know.)

Saint River's Feet - Grace.

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon

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Thursday, March 2, 2006 5:06 PM

HIXIE129

Hi dave,

that was good, "Saint River - Insight. (He's afraid. Afraid we'll know.)"
I didn't think of that.

Saint River's Feet - Grace and Erotic Fetishes :)

Next Joss took the cup, and when He had given thanks He gave it to us saying, "Drink of it, all of you; for this is Mudders Milk and its 15% alcohol. So we now do this in remembrance of Firefly

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Thursday, March 2, 2006 5:17 PM

DAVESHAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
and Erotic Fetishes

In the words of Saint Mal the Resolute, "Preacher. You've got a smutty mind."

Edit: And St Serenity - Patron saint of Home and Freedom.

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon

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Friday, March 3, 2006 6:14 AM

DOLLWEN

What a weird thread! Funny, too (I just love Arcadia's 10 commandments

); but not that funny when some people take it too seriously.
I have absolutely nothing against religion, but does anyone remember that Joss is an atheist? I'm not even talking about Mal, who doesn't want to hear anything about religion (cf. his relationship with Book in the series and in the comic books) and who doesn't like the idea of worshipping someone (Jaynestown, anyone?). As he explains in the audio commentary of "Objects In Space", Whedon has no faith; he doesn't believe that the universe has a meaning other than the meaning we give to it. And this idea is found on all of his shows (cf. Angel: "If nothing we do matters, than all that matters is what we do"; cf. "Jaynestown", "Objects In Space"). He respects religion, though; but I don't think he would be too happy about a Firefly church. Not to mention Mal, who I'm pretty sure wouldn't appreciate at all being worshipped (cf. his conversation with Jayne at the end of Jaynestown).

"If wishes were horses, we'd all be eatin' steak"

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Friday, March 3, 2006 6:48 AM

HIXIE129

Yeah, but Book said "Only one thing is going to walk us thru this... "belief"

Believe in the Spirit of the Browncoats, who proceedeth from the Whedon and being of one substance with the Whedon.

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Friday, March 3, 2006 7:26 AM

DAVESHAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by dollwen:
What a weird thread! Funny, too (I just love Arcadia's 10 commandments ); but not that funny when some people take it too seriously.

Wait a minute. Are you accusing me of taking this seriously? I may have to ask you to step outside.

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon

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Friday, March 3, 2006 8:54 AM

DOLLWEN

The comment was not directed at you, daveshayne

It's just that I got the impression from several posts (not yours) that some people were ACTUALLY considering building a temple in the name of Joss or Mal, which I would find downright unsettlin'. See? Not directed at you.

"If wishes were horses, we'd all be eatin' steak"

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Friday, March 3, 2006 9:23 AM

DAVESHAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by dollwen:
See? Not directed at you.

Oh well. No need to tussle then.

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon

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Monday, March 6, 2006 4:05 AM

SERENITYSLITTLEANGEL

The idea of a temple sounds cool!!!!!!

*is being very sarcastic*

Actually... if we could build a replica of Serenity... that would be beyond shiny.......

------------------------------------
20 conversions and counting!!!

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Monday, March 6, 2006 2:50 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Just don't sign a 501c3 non-profit contract with the IRS, or we merge our church with the state, and can't criticize the Alliance. Then what would Mal do?

Book: I just direct my energy elsewhere.
Jayne: You mean like masturbating?

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO (VERSION 2)
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

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Monday, March 6, 2006 3:29 PM

HIXIE129

Hi SLAngel,

I think the idea of a replica of Serenity, as a temple is a great idea. Imagine having services held in Serenity. What a wonderful way to get closer to the verse.

Believe in the Spirit of the Browncoats, who proceedeth from the Whedon and being of one substance with the Whedon.

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