You know those people the BDHs help in Our Mrs. Reynolds? by Algus

They're hardly friends, sold them out to YoSaffBrig.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 9:10 PM

ALGUS

Yeah? I always got the impression that they weren't in on the whole ordeal, though I suppose it could be argued that they were. Guess I'll have to make sure and watch it more carefully.

---
Where's the KABOOM?! There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom! *sigh* Delays...delays...

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Monday, March 6, 2006 9:15 PM

Elder Gommen was involved atleast.

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 5:38 AM

Not necessarily. She could have played him just as she plays everyone. (Minus the sex.)

But actually, I think that their community is so remote and small that they'd hardly show up on the Operative's radar.

It's obvious the crew had far closer ties to Haven than to the Triumph settlers, where they stopped once for a night and never came back.

"sheltered us after a heist" implies at least a little bit more in the way of friendship. I could even imagine that Badger's still alive, since he'd easily sell out Mal, too.

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 5:52 AM

DUG

We had a thread on this awhile back. My contention is that there had to be at least some of the Triumph settlers in on it.

Seems a trifle odd to me that no one made any fuss about a wedding ceremony going on in the midst of the party, and one would think that at least one person would notice. Might have been missed by us but the settlers would know their own traditions and it would stand out like someone wearing a bridal gown and swapping rings in the middle of the party.

Also, unless she is convinced that Elder Gammon will back her up if Mal turned around there had to be someone to send the wave that an alliance ship was inbound. We have no evidence that the wave was legit and it's a very convenient coincidence that just happened to elp her out. The operation running the net was pretty much based in that system (looks pretty tough to move and they had surveillance cams on shipping routes) and it makes sense to me that they would have some people on the ground backing YoSafBridge up.

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 5:56 AM

But if they are that devious, why not take care of the robbers themselves?

Didn't look like too challenging a conflict to me... And it seems awfully deliberate to home-grow a couple of robbers, let themselves be victimized in a way that seems to contain rape along with theft, only to have an excuse to hire Serenity into killing them so they can smuggle Saffron aboard and let her hijack the ship.

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 5:56 AM

ACRAZYIVAN

I've been wondering ever since the BDM if Badger would still be alive. Like you said, he doesn't seem to fit the category of people who have "sheltered (them) after a heist." Although, he is still someone who brings business to Serenity, and therefor is of value to Mal and the crew - so it might be in the Operative's best interest to kill him off. Badger also seems to be the kind of guy who might have the connections to kno somethingmay be coming, and have several dozen escape tunnels away from his hideout. I figure if he was targeted by the Operative he had a way of getting into hiding until the whole ordeal passed.

Keep on flyin'

"We've gotta go to the crappy town where I'm a hero."

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 5:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ACrazyIvan:
I figure if he was targeted by the Operative he had a way of getting into hiding until the whole ordeal passed.

Yeah, he does strike me as one of those nuclear catastrophe surviving cockroaches. *g*

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 6:06 AM

SAB39

Maybe "give 'em a woman in exchange for helping us out" really *was* the Triumph settlers' way of paying back a debt, and a marriage ceremony in such circumstances was normal and expected so nobody commented on it...

That leaves the question of how Saffron got herself into a position to be the property being traded. Even though I don't have any *specific* ideas here, I somehow imagine she's more than up to that task.

As for the wave about the incoming Alliance ship: that could have been sent by the net operators and successfully fooled the Triumph folks.

Even though this is Firefly, not *everyone* has to have an ulterior motive ;)

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 6:37 AM

DUG

What we came up with in that other thread:

Makes no sense that this is the only settlement on the planet, right? Wouldn't draw enough ships to the system for the net to make a profit. The net operation knows that there is a call from the village for some crew to come help. Saffron and possibly someone with her come to the village and work their way into the culture waiting for a ship, do their stuff and so on. he wave could have been sent from the net, but only if they know right when Serenity is going to launch. Remember that they hear of the Alliance ship as they are ready to lift off, preventing much in the way of questions and giving no time for Saffron to be found as cargo is being secured.

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 6:44 AM

She said that she had worked with Elder Gommen a few times, so some of the settlers had to have recognised her. Then again, everyone was piss drunk.

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 6:45 AM

Check the script

http://average-bear.com/firefly/105.html

there are lines that got cut when Mal finds Saffron at the end:

SAFFRON
How'd you find me?

MAL
Only a few places that shuttle could
make it to from where you left.
Happy to find it intact. You always
work for Elder Gommen?

SAFFRON
I work with lots of folk. He's
thrown me a few choice fish. What'll
become of the dear Elder?

MAL
Oh, he'll be laying eyes on me soon
enough. And to think I saved his
town from vicious bandits.

SAFFRON
(smiling sexily)
You're quite a man, Malcolm Reynolds.
I've waited a long while for someone
good enough to take me down.

QED

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 8:19 AM

Ah, I guess that settles it. Still feels oddly deliberate of that little settlement, but whatever.

That's not in the actual episode, though. There are a couple of exchanges in that script that were either cut or not filmed or whatever, so it's no wonder some of us didn't know about this. :)

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 8:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
That's not in the actual episode, though. There are a couple of exchanges in that script that were either cut or not filmed or whatever, so it's no wonder some of us didn't know about this. :)

The important part about Elder Gommen was.

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 8:29 AM

There's a few fun little tidbits in the scripts, like Inara's female client in War Stories has a husband...

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 8:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mattcoz:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
That's not in the actual episode, though. There are a couple of exchanges in that script that were either cut or not filmed or whatever, so it's no wonder some of us didn't know about this. :)
The important part about Elder Gommen was.

I don't think so. I checked the ending with Saffron and there's no mention of him. Where in the episode do they talk about him being behind it?

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 8:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
There's a few fun little tidbits in the scripts, like Inara's female client in War Stories has a husband...

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

Yes, and her mysterious package in "The Message"!

It really IS always the Inara bits that get cut... Huh.

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 8:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
I don't think so. I checked the ending with Saffron and there's no mention of him. Where in the episode do they talk about him being behind it?

I'll have to check it again.

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 9:45 AM

SHINY

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Check the script

http://average-bear.com/firefly/105.html

there are lines that got cut when Mal finds Saffron at the end:

SAFFRON
How'd you find me?

MAL
Only a few places that shuttle could
make it to from where you left.
Happy to find it intact. You always
work for Elder Gommen?

Never made it to the final cut though, so I wouldn't consider it 'canon'.

---

I don't need a gorram back-spaceship driver!!!

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 9:52 AM

Yeah, it's not set-in-stone canon, but I figure it's what the writers were thinking when they wrote the episode, so it holds some weight.

I was actually bummed when I read it, I didn't like thinking that Elder Gommen was a bad guy. I liked him!

Either way, I don't think he deserved to get blown up by the Operative. Bad operative, bad!

AgentRouka - I never read the Message script (not my favorite episode) so I missed Inara's package. off I go to check!

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 10:33 AM

ALGUS

Fascinating, that bit of cut script makes me want to rework my whole theory. I'd be tempted to go along with the "The Elder was in on it" part now.

I got the impression from the film that the Operative looked at everything he knew about Mal and just killed indiscriminantly. Arguably Shepherd Book was the most important person he did kill indiscriminantly and if he had realized how important the Shepherd was to Mal, he might have left him alive (Then again, since he'd tried that with Inara and failed, maybe he wouldn't have) so I figure he might have gone to places that were at best loosely tied to the crew.

Still, that bit of cut dialogue makes me think. I always fancied she had brains enough to slip in and establish connections on her own. The part that strikes me as odd is the thieves. They couldn't have been in on it because they would have surrendered, so the Elder could let them go and they could be used as bait later. Or he's just a really vicious old bastard.

Anyway, thanks for that about the script, cut stuff can often add insight where the canon might fall short of answers.

---
Where's the KABOOM?! There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom! *sigh* Delays...delays...

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 11:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Yes, and her mysterious package in "The Message"!

All right, I missed it! I just scanned the Inara lines, but I didn't see anything! Explain!

Algus - Maybe the Elder was just taking advantage of two convenient opportunities at once? Like he's not a full-out gun-toting evil guy, just someone to grab at everything he could to support his poor malnourished and mistreated villagers.

m4p

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 11:24 AM

It's not one of her lines, just one tiny mention in the directions of the script:

JAYNE
Haw haw. It's from my mother.

During this, Inara finds a small package, squarish, addressed to her. She smoothly slips it beneath her outfit without anyone noticing, turns to see Kaylee arrive, looking glum.

INARA
(to Kaylee)
So, do aliens live among us?

It's in this script: http://twiztv.com/scripts/firefly/season1/firefly-115.htm

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 11:32 AM

Oh! Good catch.

I know, it was another mystery syringe!

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 11:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Oh! Good catch.

I know, it was another mystery syringe!

Hee!

Which would pose interesting questions to the whole poison scenario. *g* Why's she need more?

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 11:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Oh! Good catch.

I know, it was another mystery syringe!

Hee!

Which would pose interesting questions to the whole poison scenario. *g* Why's she need more?

So, one of the FF writers said that the syringe was some kill-everyone-you-have-sex-with drug designed for Reaver attacks, but I like the storylines discussed before that explanation came out.

In particular: it's an eternal youth drug (Nandy tells Inara she hasn't changed a bit...) That would certainly need refills!

Sorry about hijacking your thread with my rambling nonsense Algus, but I'm out of work in 15 minutes and desperate to pass the time!

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 11:50 AM

My apologies to Algus, as well. I'll try to keep the off-topic short!

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

In particular: it's an eternal youth drug (Nandy tells Inara she hasn't changed a bit...) That would certainly need refills!

Sorry about hijacking your thread with my rambling nonsense Algus, but I'm out of work in 15 minutes and desperate to pass the time!

That theory always puzzled me.

So, how much time supposedly passed since Inara and Nandi last saw each other?

Everyone always treats this line as if it is so very significant, but frankly, if it's been two or three years... I know 25-year-olds that get mistaken for 15, and not-aging is a frequent compliment, so telling her she hasn't changed since her glory days on Sihnon doesn't seem odd.

Not to mention, what would be the point of an anti-aging drug? Hmm.

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 12:02 PM

The thing that made me wonder about this was some commentary (Pilot episdoe??) in which Joss (maybe??) said that Morena was perfect for the part because she seemed so much older than she looked...

I thought the anti-aging drug might have side effects that could be interesting, although I haven't really thought that through even to hazard a guess.

Okay, done hijacking cause it's 5:00 and I'm free! Have a good night all!

m4p

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 12:05 PM

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

I think it would go more like this...

Operative shows up and asks about Malcolm Reynolds and Serenity to people he knows that the captain and crew have been in contact with.

People like the ones in the settlement and Badger say, "Sure Malcolm Reynolds was just here and left for X. Is he in some kind of trouble?" - these people live.

People who show the slightest hesitation in revealing all as in "Malcolm Reynolds - don't rightly recall anyone by that name." get the twist in the back fall on the sword routine.

Andrew

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 12:19 PM