River in love? by Steamer

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

River in love?

POSTED BY: STEAMER
UPDATED: Thursday, March 9, 2006 17:04
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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 11:29 AM

A few nights ago I had a dream that made me wonder something. (Yes, I'm now dreaming about Firefly - I'm officially obsessed.

) Anyhoo, I wonder if/how River might fall in love? If she can read minds, can she read hearts just as easily or is that even beyond her scope?

Discuss. (Maybe take it to a fanfic challenge somewhere.

)

~

"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 11:47 AM

DONCOAT

It often seemed to me (in the series, anyway) that River was actually more receptive of emotions than of actual thoughts. She could pretty much tell what people were feeling, especially about her, all the time.

Of course, OiS has the most obvious examples, but really it shows up in almost every scene she's in. In fact, up until the BDM came out I would probably have argued that River was primarily an empath rather than a telepath.

So I have no doubt that River will easily sense when someone has "those" feelings for her. What's interesting is, does she even have a choice as to whether to reciprocate those feelings? She can't not feel, we're told... so what if she can't not love someone who loves her?

Tricky enough, but that leads to a still larger question...

If someone is truly a telepath -- can actually share the mind of another person -- then does it mean anything to say they're two different people? If not, if they're in fact one mind, then how can River ever love someone else? Anyone she's with is part of her. Talk about onanism!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 11:59 AM

MATTCOZ

From what we've seen of her on the ship, I can definitely see her being able to fall in love. She has shown the ability to love her brother and to make friends with the crew, so I don't see anything to stop her.

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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 3:06 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
She can't not feel, we're told... so what if she can't not love someone who loves her?

Just because she can't NOT feel, doesn't mean she's a slave to every thoguht that enters her brain. I mean, ya gotta wonder what Jayne's thought about River , in his bunk, a time or two....well, before she took a knife to his chest.

I think post Miranda River is far more likely to fall in love than before. (Major DUH, eh? ) I'm thinking it would involve someone pretty smart, but not necessarily freakishly smart. Something akin to Han Solo and Princess Leah?

I don't know why I just thought of that.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 3:22 PM

ICANKILLYOUWITHMYBRAIN

Great topic idea! I have often wondered about River love interests from time to time myself.
Call me crazy if you like, but I once had the idea that maybe River and Jayne might fall in love, or have some strange affection towards one another at one point. It was just a thought and I'm still not sure what to think of it myself.

I'm sure if River ever did fall in love it would be interesting, no matter who it is with.

"When you can't run anymore, you crawl, and when you can't do that...you find someone to carry you."-The Message

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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 3:52 PM

STEAMER

Well, I know it's explored a great deal in fanfic, but I really don't think there's much besides animosity between River and Jayne. My notion is, if River meets a guy she can probably tell right away if his intentions are lecherous or honourable. In the latter case, one just wonders how she'll react, her brain being as well-developed and educated (and torn up) as it is; whether she wants to give as much as she gets, or if she can see that her opposite number is feeling something even he's not clear on.

~

"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 7:14 PM

STROKINGMYPETER

well i admit i'm afraid i might get lashed out at for saying this, but i got a very strong vibe that River has a major crush on Mal. I mean come on! Maybe I'm an idiot, but in the scene at the end of Serenity I immediately thought that River had a crush on him. There is of course no possibility of that actually ever going anywhere or progressing into a relationship, but I saw it was there.

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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 7:18 PM

ALGUS

No, I dont think the scene at the end of Serenity was River having a crush, I think that was her reaching out to another human being and connecting with them, something she might not have been able to do in a long, long time.

I thought that scene was beautiful by the way and would argue that it is proof that she can make the connections that are necessary for love. I don't think she'd ever have romantic feelings for the Captain though, maybe love like in the same kind of way that Mal loves Kaylee, as a brother would love his sister.

And just for overkill on this post

"You know what I'm going to say, don't you?"
"Yes, but I like to hear you say it."

---
Where's the KABOOM?! There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom! *sigh* Delays...delays...

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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 7:25 PM

STROKINGMYPETER

well i didn't really mean that she was romantically attracted to Mal, more just attracted to his macho bad ass personality in an offhand way. just a crush you know?

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 12:53 PM

ELOISA

Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
If someone is truly a telepath -- can actually share the mind of another person -- then does it mean anything to say they're two different people? If not, if they're in fact one mind, then how can River ever love someone else? Anyone she's with is part of her. Talk about onanism!

Oh, you had to bring up one of my favourite topics in the world ever....

My take is that it strongly depends upon the telepath or telempath, and upon their relationship with the other person involved. In this particular instance, at the start of the series, I see River's personality being so fragmented and her control as being so weak (Simon: "She feels everything. She can't not.") that it doesn't make any sense to say she's not anyone who she's with most of the time. This is most obvious in Objects in Space and also in Shindig, when she "becomes" Badger for a few moments (before effectively asking Simon to find her someone more interesting to be rather than to talk to).

Then, Miranda. When I originally saw the BDM in the cinema I immediately noticed the difference in her delivery when she said "I'm all right" for the second time. Her self (two words, note) had been being strained in some way by the knowledge of the Miranda incident and the deaths there - maybe as far as having all the ghosts in her head; she felt the dead in Bushwhacked - but I'm not going to go into that now as it's too off-topic. The point is that going to Miranda and sorting out the situation there effectively gave her a far better grounding on who she was.

IMO that is a crucial attribute for a psychic in any universe, because they need something to return to from when they've been communicating with someone else. The more extreme the situation - out-of-body spirit-walking of some sort or, as in River's case, the ability to delve completely into someone's consciousness and find out not only what they are but who they are and who they pretend they aren't - the more important it is to have an anchor.

I'm writing a four-novel series partially focused on the nature of love for a psychic bondmate and on having psychic bonds to one person and romantic love with another. The (incomplete) first volume is online at http://forums.ffonline.com/showthread.php?t=42174 and the (complete) third volume, which is particularly relevant to the discussion at hand, is online at http://forums.ffonline.com/showthread.php?t=12110&page=1&pp=40. To cut several very long stories short, I think that even if River and whoever she's in contact with are temporarily the same person, it doesn't preclude her truly loving them or being in love with someone else. She needs to decide her personal definitions of "love" and "self", and work from there. The stronger-minded the other person the better, too; if she can focus on his or her well-defined personality as being something distinct from her own, she'll be more capable of appreciating the distinction between loving and being.

(And I think River is an empath, and would like to point out that this could be a distinct advantage in conducting certain aspects of a love affair.

)

***
http://forums.ffonline.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19
Creative Writing

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 4:42 PM

MILFORD

I concur regarding the Mal/River crush. Don't know how realistic it is but I definitely agree.

As for whether or not River can fal in love? Absolutely, as soon as we meet I'll tell you.

Leaning into the wind that used to carry me-Stavesacre

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 5:04 PM

RIVERGODDESS

Hehe, I loved this idea. I'm actually writing a fanfic about when River meets another semi-psychic and her reactions. I think that the end scene with Mal and River was so beautiful, but not quite "love" as in "in love". More like the love between Mathilde and Leon in The Professional, you know? *Sigh* truly touching!

*~*~
Summer's response to Nathan getting his very own action figure:
"I tried to pull his head off."

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