Any Armchair Sociologists Out There?? by UnregisteredCompanion

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Any Armchair Sociologists Out There??

POSTED BY: UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 5, 2006 22:11
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Tuesday, April 4, 2006 4:02 AM

So I'm wondering...

Firefly and Serenity struck such a strong cord with us...so much so that we even joined a website about a cancelled TV show and a moderately successful movie! (Does that seem right to you?)

So, here is the pondering part. What is it about US that draws us so in to the verse? We are all different ages, different races, we live in different countries, and even have vastly differing political bents. (Don't believe me? Check in with the News of the World section some time!)

Where is the common thread?

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Tuesday, April 4, 2006 4:07 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Honestly for me it is Joss's underlying message of a yearning to be free. I think it is most likely the same for all of us. We want to be free from an overbearing, all powerful, meddlesome central government, free to pursue our own way. We want to live our own life and not answer to anyone else.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

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Tuesday, April 4, 2006 4:44 AM

ARABIKUM

I love it, because of its childishness. Really. I´ve been a die-hard-SF-Fan for all my life, no matter if it was a movie, a tv-show or a book. And I am up to this day. To me, Firefly is special in many many ways, because it´s unconvential (that’s why it might have been cancelled). Anybody said, you can´t put cattle in a spaceship?! We can and FOX did pay for it. Frack them! Watching Firefly is like being a child again, looking into the stars and wondering how great everything is. It´s funny, it´s got depth, great characters and outstanding actors. You can feel, how much Joss and the cast did love the show in the making. It´s not about making money in the first place. And I can´t stand the thought, that I won´t be able to see more.

A.

A Dragonbreth Gilthorpial!!

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Tuesday, April 4, 2006 9:26 AM

NUCLEARDAY

I agree with Arabikum there. First time I caught Firefly on Fox was like a breath of fresh air. When everyone involved is that committed to the 'verse, it can't help but outshine everything else.

Seeing the BDM only served to remind me of what I'd been missing out on since the cancellation, and shifted my forlorn acquiescence to righteous indignation of the fact that I wasn't now watching the fifth season of the little show that could.

(Oh, and a shiny little cutey-pie like Kaylee helps just a tad bit, too :)

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

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Tuesday, April 4, 2006 11:34 AM

DAYVE

Perhaps there is a little of the 'Lemming factor' involved here....you know the little rodent noted for periodic mass migrations....

i mean, why else would fairly reasonable, (i suppose), human beings join in any sort of club or activity that involves forming a group of unknown people based only on the fact that they all have some sort of interest in the same thing...? (see Hells Angels)

Ok, maybe not mass hysteria, but simply the subconscious stimuli of a dormant response mechanism.

Browncoat1 noted the desire to be free of an oppressive government or any form of regulation that would inhibit individual growth. And this could indeed be the reason Firefly struck such a nerve with so many people. We share a desire to live our lives on our own terms and not be relegated to a number in a book. We don't even want to be in the book.

Sometimes it takes a lot to stir folks up to the point that they do take a stand for what they believe to be right. Not so much like lemmings but more like sheep, there will always be those who simply follow anyone who tells them what to do, think, say, how to vote....etc. To me Firefly stands for the individuals...the ones who won't play by the rules....those who see something beyond the status quo and strike out to determine life on their own terms..... and i suppose that is an admirable quality, one that fans of this show tend to emulate.

but, hey...that's just me thinking

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Tuesday, April 4, 2006 8:01 PM

FLORALBUNNY

UC, would you settle for an accountant? (*rummages*)
How bout a lawyer?
(*more rummaging* *sound of basket being dumped*)
Oh, heck, all I have handy right now is a strawberry aficionado.

I read threads here so I can laugh out loud at lovely humorous posts like the one above by Arabikum. (Put cattle in a spaceship and made Fox pay for it)

A while ago I saw a post which says Serenity has finally made it into the black, and I cheered.

Someone is carrying on the April Fool joke about Kate Beckinsale being cast as Wonder Woman. Ha.

I click on links to interviews with Joss or Nathan because they're so funny.

I get to play with people I'd rarely meet in RL.

So many more reasons I can't list them all here.

Now where did I put that sociologist?
(*sound of drawers opening and place-mats being turned over*)

bun
-- bastards singed my turtle --
----- why's the rum gone? -----

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Tuesday, April 4, 2006 8:28 PM

SINGATE

I really like westerns, especially those with Clint Eastwood. Discovered sci-fi at an early age and flipped over the genre. Firefly is a combination of two things I already enjoyed so I could I not like it.

Speaking of Clint, every now and then Mal will say something or have a facial expression which makes me think of 'the man with no name'. Anybody else make this connection or am I grasping at straws?

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Tuesday, April 4, 2006 8:58 PM

AZTECHROME

Quote:
Originally posted by UnregisteredCompanion:
So I'm wondering...

Firefly and Serenity struck such a strong cord with us...so much so that we even joined a website about a cancelled TV show and a moderately successful movie! (Does that seem right to you?)

So, here is the pondering part. What is it about US that draws us so in to the verse? We are all different ages, different races, we live in different countries, and even have vastly differing political bents. (Don't believe me? Check in with the News of the World section some time!)

Where is the common thread?

I'm an armchair philosopher/theorist. Does that count?

I would draw upon the old saw of the "Eternal Return of the Same". I believe it to the the fundamental motivator behind the success of episodic fiction on television. For those unfamiliar with the Eternal jargon, it's basically our drive to seek out the situation in which we feel most stable/comfortable, day after day. Of course, return to the same is an impossiblility, so we seek out the most similar situation available at a given time. This is often not the *best* situation for us, just the most accessible.

Firefly is a case of this same drive manifesting during a major case of coitus interruptus.

I'm probably not the only one who practically had a religous experience the first time I saw Firefly. Uniquely crafted, beautiful, and supposed to be there every week, we incorporate it into our quest for the return of the same.
We all felt less alone in seeing something as intelligent and well-developed as Firefly. We tried to make it part of our routine. But it was taken from us.
Humans are not so easily defeated or dissuaded. So we have started this website, conventions, and countless other ventures that helped Joss & co. make Serenity.
What sets Firefly apart is its welcoming stance towards the unwanted and rebellious. Sort of like the inscription upon the statue of liberty.
Above others, Joss Wheedon's creation cried out for population by dedicated fans. Dedicated fans are people who thoughts and actions linger upon the lost days of Firefly production, and have failed to find any worthy successor to replace Firefly's role in the return of the same.
I believe this be because there hasn't been any greater creation for us in the years since.a
Thus we seek out the return of that which provides us enjoyment and stability. It's a travel into the black, but hopefully there are still a few ports of call out there for us travelers.

To summarize this crap: There's been nothing nearly as good as Firefly to replace the gap; ever since we initially saw/desired this show....

Was that pompous enough?

PS: It could also be because most of the cast members are hot.

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Tuesday, April 4, 2006 9:06 PM

RIVER6213

I must be missing something here. Can someone explain to me what they exactly mean by "being free?" What is being free? Okay so we don't like the central govs controlling us; I don't like it either, especially during tax time, but because of human nature, there has to be some form of controlling element that keeps back the people who wishe to exploit others, and only a central government is able to do this with a measure of success. Just a thought.

River

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Tuesday, April 4, 2006 9:17 PM

AZTECHROME

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I must be missing something here. Can someone explain to me what they exactly mean by "being free?" What is being free? Okay so we don't like the central govs controlling us; I don't like it either, especially during tax time, but because of human nature, there has to be some form of controlling element that keeps back the people who wishe to exploit others, and only a central government is able to do this with a measure of success. Just a thought.

River

But by what standard do you measure a central government. Our country is a grayscape of local, state, and national authorities. Is there a need for a super-national authority? (This is obviously a commmonly debated question.)

Nevertheless, cannot a regional government better understand the needs of its constituency?

So how regional is regional? There's no right answer.

This is a macrocosmic question, with too many variables. Why do nations exist where they do? Why are borders where they are? They are all part of the same question.

Pompously yours

-aztechrome

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 2:56 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I must be missing something here. Can someone explain to me what they exactly mean by "being free?" What is being free? Okay so we don't like the central govs controlling us; I don't like it either, especially during tax time, but because of human nature, there has to be some form of controlling element that keeps back the people who wishe to exploit others, and only a central government is able to do this with a measure of success. Just a thought.

Free to me River is being my own person, free to pursue my own dreams, my own desires, my own spiritual and emotional growth, free of the restraints of constricting government and society that demands conformity. Freedom to me is the ability to do what I want, go where I want, live how I want so long as I do not interfere with others, their well being or their own freedom.

Yes, as humans we need laws and regulations, so long as they are not invasive or deprive us of our rights and freedoms.

What keeps others from exploiting us is our sense of self, and the willingness to fight to keep others from oppressing us, be that through electing new officials, working together to introduce new legislation, demonstrating against unfair treatment, or rising up to throw off our oppressors as our Founding Fathers did so long ago.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 3:03 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by aztechrome:
But by what standard do you measure a central government. Our country is a grayscape of local, state, and national authorities. Is there a need for a super-national authority? (This is obviously a commmonly debated question.)

Nevertheless, cannot a regional government better understand the needs of its constituency?

So how regional is regional? There's no right answer.

This is a macrocosmic question, with too many variables. Why do nations exist where they do? Why are borders where they are? They are all part of the same question.

My point exactly Aztechrome!

We have local, county, and state governments which are more in touch with our communities and the needs of their constituents to govern our lives, we do not need the federal government to do so.

The national government was originally set up to mediate disputes between the states, provide for the common defense of the country, and to deal with foreign diplomacy. For more than 140 years the federal government has changed their role, given themselves more power than they were ever meant to have, and have made themselves just nigh of untouchable.

Look at the mess our country is in now. I don't like to talk about such things normally as they cause heated debates, but our freedoms, and our rights, are disappearing. This is why the Joss's message in Firefly struck me so soundly. Freedom is bred into our spirit and is the right of all men and women.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 3:59 AM

DAYVE

Quote:
Originally posted by aztechrome:
I'm probably not the only one who practically had a religous experience the first time I saw Firefly.

the last (and only) religious experience i've ever had was in 1969 when i dropped a 1/2 tab of Orange Sunshine and wandered into a forest..... i found god in a loblolly pine......

yes, i have a Darwin Fish on my scooter.....

Hi River6213....
i want to add 2 cents worth of armchair bullshit to what you asked about freedom.... (just another word for nothing left to lose...?)

Maybe none of us are truly free in the sense that life is devoid of any responsibilities.... most of us feel we should take responsibility for our actions, and in doing so we lose some of the ability to be totally free. I remember the books by Carlos Castanada (i know, the general concensus about his writing is that they were all fiction), but when i think of being truly free i think of the teachings he wrote of, and the sense i got was of a completely seperate reality where the individual determines his own path and all conventional conceptions of life, as we were conditioned to accept, go out the window.

the concept of conditioning has stuck with me..... we are raised from birth to accept what we are presented with, (by whomever), to the point that as we mature there is still that sense of learned experience, for good or bad, that has been imprinted on our psyche.....

i guess to be truly free....a person would have to be raised in a competely sterile environment. One devoid of any outside influences...left to develop our own reality.....but that sounds like science fiction..eh

ok...stepping away from the coffee pot....

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 5:14 AM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION

Freedom is also the freedom to make your own mistakes. Sure, there are always consequences. But I don't want someone forcing me to do something "for my own good". Let me figure it out myself. Even if my choices have me putting cattle on a space ship.

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 11:26 AM

DONCOAT

"In order to be truly free, one must enslave oneself to the idea of freedom."

Can't remember who that quote's from, but it's a thought provoker.

I agree with River that the proper role of government is to suppress the element of society that would exploit the peaceful majority. It's certainly debatable at what level of government this is best embodied.

Perhaps the same argument applies to various levels of government as it does to individuals. For example, the role of regional government is to prevent excesses by local government, and so on.

The problem is that sometimes -- perhaps most of the time -- governments have a tendency to exceed that minimum role and get into the "meddlesome" mode that little River decries.

Perhaps it's all a matter of where the lines are drawn, and how effective the checks and balances are. If that's the case, then maybe the thing many of us Browncoats have in common is the desire to draw that line as close as possible to the "individual liberties" side of the scale.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 11:36 AM

JPSTARGAZER

I think (in my opinion) Firefly is enjoyed by so many people because it's about family. I mean regardless of what your actual family is like, Firefly shows us that even two war veterans, a goofy pilot, a mercenary, a cute mechanic, a preacher, two fugitives (one of whom is not quite right), and a space geisha can form tight bonds. And it does a great job of making US feel like we would fit in with them too. That's my simple take on it.

"All I got is a red guitar, three chords, and the truth...the rest is up to you"
--Bono

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 5:36 PM

RIVER6213

It seems that the larger the population, the more a central government is needed, and more freedom is removed so everyone can get along. Each group within that large population is attempting to obtain more resources than the other groups. Then you toss in race, and religion, and class, and that makes a large population needing more control by a central government.

Then there is the central government itself. It needs to be watched by a whole bunch of smaller parts of that government. And that group needs to be watched, and the group that's watching the group that’s watching the central government needs to be watched... on and on and on.

Check and balances comes with having a large population, but there will always be some group, or race, or religious zealots that feel they need a larger slice of the pie than everyone else.

It’s difficult for a government not to meddle when it’s got a population of 1.2 billion individuals. And when that meddling starts, it a sure bet that it will get out of control fast.

Freedom is an interesting word on a planet with a world wide population of 6.3 billion people such as the Earth-that-Is is currently at. Freedom seriously gets curtailed when those 6.3 billion people are all competing for the limited resources of Earth. If we had a solar system with hundreds of planets and thousands of moons that had atmospheres that we could all breath and walk about on because the gravity was just right, then things might be different…freedom could be fully realized until the dreaded day came when those hundreds of planets and thousands of moons started becoming heavily populated, and then that’s when there would start to be talk of a central government, and the circus, and the curtailing of our freedoms began anew.

I had a point to make in all of this, but I forgot what it was, and I’m tired.

River

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 10:11 PM

ARABIKUM

Ahhhh.Knock-Knock. One-Two One-Two... O.K. As we say here, freedom is (or should always be) the freedom of the others. So, if you want to judge the value of personal freedom in your country, don´t look at yourself, just look at all the people around you, esp. your minoritys. If you do not know, what a minority is: Browncoats are.

But - of course - we in olde Europe are creepy little socialists and do not know anything about that freedom-concept. Cough. Would you hand me the crackers, Darlin´...?!

A.
__________________________________________________

The Wizard paused a moment before speaking to focus his eyes, which had recently developed a tendency to cross, and looked gravely at Dildo.
"It is time to talk of the Ring," he said.
"Ring? What ring?" said Dildo.
"Thee knows only too well what Ring," said Goodgulf. "The one in thy pocket, Master Bugger."
"Oooooh, that Ring," said Dildo with a show of innocense, "I thought you meant the ring you leave in my tub after your seances with your rubber duck."

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