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It's just my opinion but the use of harsh ( or lack there of) language was an absolute plus for the show.

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Originally posted by zzetta13:
Just to revise my original post I should have said the lack of non-abusive words spoken in ENGLISH.

I didn't view the translation of chinese. Spoken with the right tone of voice in chinese and "Your mother has a pretty flower garden" could sound pretty gorram bad to me.

Z

Also Cantonheroine that is some very good artwork. I like really like it.

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Originally posted by crybaby:
Well sometimes swear words lend more realism to the dialogue. I remember when I first saw Odyssey 5 I thought the moderate amount of cussing really helped since it portray the characters as regular people (despite them all being astronauts) who spoke just like the rest of us.

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...A watered down curse word is like seeing someone you would never want to see naked, in a skimpy bathing suit. You pretty much know whats underneath you'd just be ruttin uncomfortable if it fell out.

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Originally posted by zoid:
I see your point, but... Why do people prefer a comforting lie to the unadulterated truth? I'm a 47-year old male, and I will never understand that.

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Originally posted by zzetta13:
I really do have a brother married to a sweet american girl of chinese origin. They have a young daughter and his mother-inlaw lives with them. All speak chinese. He even knows quite a bit himself. I'd love to convert him to the FF verse. But don't know if it would be a good idea.

Part of what I like about FF/S is the very creative touch written into the dialog.

lines like" do you think I'm a complete backbirth?"
or "...you inbred dunghead, he pushed me out first!"

Well these are just classic

Z

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Originally posted by zoid:
I see your point, but... Why do people prefer a comforting lie to the unadulterated truth? I'm a 47-year old male, and I will never understand that

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The unadulterated truth is great, and I generally prefer it, but I think Joss's main concern was to skirt the censors, and do it in a creative way. Thus, the use of Chinese...

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Originally posted by ACrazyIvan:
In the novelization it reads: "So I hear a word out of any of you that ain't helping me out, or taking your leave, I will f*cking shoot you."

Now, I know pretty much all of us have our gripes with the novelization anyway - but not only does this change the impact for me, it's completely NOT Malcom Reynolds.

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The unadulterated truth is great, and I generally prefer it, but I think Joss's main concern was to skirt the censors, and do it in a creative way. Thus, the use of Chinese...

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I get that.

What I don't get is the comfortable, warm-and-fuzzy feeling folks get, strictly by changing a vowel/consonant, while the underlying sentiment remains intact.

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the way the Mayor talks (with gee gollies and goshdarnits). It's to emphasize his weird personality; he's an invincible demon, yet he still talks like he walked right out of a fifties sitcom and insists on people always washing their hands and such, and is always talking about things like the Boy Scouts and Civic Duty, despite the fact that he literally plans to EAT the entire graduating senior class.

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So yeah. It has its purposes. Also, while I don't think anyone gets a WAFF from it, I do think that innocent people think they'd rather nto "sully" themselves with "nasty" words - or at least, that's a good characterization tool in that way, sometimes. Can you imagine, for instance, Kaylee "dropping the f-bomb"?

One more great instance, in which it was used to a humourous effect: in Hemingway's "For Whom The Bell Tolls", there are never any curse words, only the word "unprintable". YEARS after reading it, and that detail still sticks out in my mind, because I remembered thinking that if he'd actually included the curse words, it wouldn't have been anywhere NEAR as much fun to read.

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I say if you're gonna cuss, grow a pair and cuss.

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Sorry, I prefer not to use steroids. :P (Sorry, could not resist)

I try to save the really strong stuff, especially the "f-bomb" and "s-bomb" and "asshole", for when I "really need" it. In other words, for when I REALLY am pissed off. See, if you use them too much, they lose their power, but if you use them only when you REALLY mean it, they have several times the impact - somebody mentioned Mal's careful usage of curse words, for instance.

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And if you're not gonna cuss because it's not proper to do so -- you know, at mama's house, church, school, in a public forum -- then don't cuss. Just don't cuss and then try to hide it by applying some lame, transparent code word like 'frack'.

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To be far, "frack" is only a euphemism for us people in the real world. :P In Battlestar Galatica's universe, it's the EXACT equivalent of "fuck", as evidenced by the fact that people say things like "don't frack with me" on that show.

I heard somewhere that BSG is supposed to actually be set in the past, not the future - or the original was, anyway - and then the whole "frack" thing makes perfect sense, because it's easier to say "fuck" than "frack", but they're close enough, that I can actually see the former evolving from the latter over time. As it is, the word's origins are kinda muddied already, especially what with it being considered "unprintable" for so long. :P

Also, you have to stop and think that sometimes, words change meaning over time or depending on the context, or just plain become invented on the spot. Sometimes, in order to world-build, one has to consider the use of language as well, and this occasionally means inventing slang ("shiny", anyone?) or curse words... since, of course, those are the words most likely to be invented or change over time (the ol' "c-word", for instance, used to simply refer to women or wives. Now it's a disparaging term for a woman and/or a crude term for a partic'ler part of her anatomy. Wrap your head around THAT one).

On a side note, there's a fantastic book out there about the use and origins of pretty much every imaginable "dirty word" and insult in the English language - absolutely fascinating stuff, I tell ya - called Wicked Words: A Treasury of Curses, Insults, Putdowns, and Other Formerly Unprintable Terms from Anglo-Saxon Times to the Present ; it's by Hugh Rawson. Good stuff. Lovely bedtime reading, too. ;)


~Emma

"I swallowed a bug."

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Originally posted by zoid:
On the other hand, I really like the use of 'humped' instead of 'screwed', etc. It's original and not just a weak smokescreen. "We're humped!" It's got a kind of poetry to it, don'tcha think?

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Can you imagine, for instance, Kaylee "dropping the f-bomb"?

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I say if you're gonna cuss, grow a pair and cuss.

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Sorry, I prefer not to use steroids. :P (Sorry, could not resist)

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...this occasionally means inventing slang ("shiny", anyone?) or curse words...

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I try to save the really strong stuff, especially the "f-bomb" and "s-bomb" and "asshole", for when I "really need" it. In other words, for when I REALLY am pissed off. See, if you use them too much, they lose their power, but if you use them only when you REALLY mean it, they have several times the impact - somebody mentioned Mal's careful usage of curse words, for instance.

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Originally posted by zzetta13:
Does anyone here remember the movie "Caveman" with Ringo Starr? I think there were 2 actual engish words spoken in the whole movie,and by an asian guy at that
by movies end though we knew what they were saying. Glub-glub.

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Originally posted by zzetta13:
I have to say that Mal dropping the F-bomb now and then could go with the character. But now after 14 shows and a movie, well I just think it wouldn't be the same if he did.

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Originally posted by christhecynic:
For Mal to hit us with a one word swear would take a lot, he definately seems more like a, "Fucked by the fickle finger of fate," kind of guy than a simple, "Fuck."

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Originally posted by zoid:

EmmaZule wrote, in pieces:

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Can you imagine, for instance, Kaylee "dropping the f-bomb"?

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Damn straight I can. Just like I can imagine her jumping the bones of a slacker mechanic (not vice versa) because "Engines make her hot!". Just like I can imagine her complaining about needing new D-cell batteries on their next visit to a general store (if you catch my meaning). That girl's as salty as chicken soup, and every bit as therapeutic.

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Comfortable with her sexuality does not automatically equate "dropping the f-bomb" . Sorry, I just don't see it. Not that I can't see her being semi-crude ("You mean, sex!?" and the vibrator mention in "Serenity" come to mind), but "fuck" is such an ugly word, really, I can't imagine our dear, sweet, sexed-up Kaylee using it.

Put in another way, she's type I would imagine might "boink" or "do the horizontal Tango" or "play Bedsheet Bingo" or "dance the Mattress Mambo"... but is just not the type to "fuck". I especially don't see her, IMO, using it as an expletive. I just don't.

Mind you, I don't mean AT ALL using it. In extreme circumstances, I have no doubt even prim and proper Simon would use it.

By "dropping the f-bomb" I meant throwing it around left and right or in non-extreme circumstances, like I imagine Jayne might just do from time to time.

Again, I don't see Kaylee using it casually... and to me, "dropping" it like a metaphorical "bomb" means it comes out of nowhere, ie, casually.

Sorry if I did not make that clear; I did not realize that people would not take it to mean "casually dropping it into a conversation".

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I say if you're gonna cuss, grow a pair and cuss.

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Sorry, I prefer not to use steroids. :P (Sorry, could not resist)

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The great part about "grow a pair" is that it applies to either sex, and suggests maturing from a child to a reproductive age adult. Still, good to hear about your aversion to steroids, since they tend to shrink whatever pair you may be equipped with.

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Mm, true. I was actually thinking of the effect (anabolic) steroids have on the female genitalia - namely, making it develop into a more penis-like structure. Naturally, the penis and testes are two seperate things, but the association between them is quite intimiate, and that's the reference I was trying (though apparently failing) to make. *shrug*

But of course, you are technically correct. The ovaries themselves would shrink.

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...this occasionally means inventing slang ("shiny", anyone?) or curse words...

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"Shiny, Happy People", REM, 1991 (featuring The B-52s' Kate Pierson). From http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1518 : "The title and chorus are based on a Chinese propaganda poster. The slogan "Shiny happy people holding hands" is used ironically - the song was released in 1991, 2 years after the Tiananmen Square uprising when the Chinese government clamped down on student demonstrators, killing hundreds of them. (thanks, Ali - Oxford, England)." So, there's your Chinese connection. I'm guessing that 'shiny' is a commonly used adjective in China, not invented for Firefly.

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So... explain to me then why it's not in Chinese, as words and phrases such as go se are? :P

Sometimes the word "nice" is used in the same way "cool" is today. "Shiny" is associated with "nice" things. I always sort of assumed that was the tentative origin, other than Joss simply wanting to create another bit of special lingo for his 'verse.

Of course, it could easily be a combination of all of the above, you never know!

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I try to save the really strong stuff, especially the "f-bomb" and "s-bomb" and "asshole", for when I "really need" it. In other words, for when I REALLY am pissed off. See, if you use them too much, they lose their power, but if you use them only when you REALLY mean it, they have several times the impact - somebody mentioned Mal's careful usage of curse words, for instance.

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I try very hard never to say a curse or to swear when I'm mad at somebody. Saying "Fuck you!", let alone "G-D you" to a person because you're too mad at them to think of anything else to say? The very thought makes me queasy. No, I'm more of a happy-go-lucky, string-of-expletives, all-the-livelong-day kind of guy. My kids know they're in trouble when I stop cussing and start using precise language. Means I'm getting serious.

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Point taken. But I know plenty of people (mostly teens) that use it so indiscriminately that there's almost no difference at all between the way they talk when they're speaking normally and when they speak angrily, except for tone of voice. And that's just plain stupid. (Non-specific) you need to discriminate one way or the other, dangit. Otherwise you just sound stupid and painfully poseur-ish, like you are trying to sound all badass 24/7 because you think it makes you seem "tough". (The inclusion of "non-specific" here is meant to denote usage of the "general you", of course, ie, not meanings specifically Zoid. )

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And my most reviled 'dirty word'? Hate. Parse it any way you want, there is no more destructive and evil a word, yet people use it all the time, and it just makes me cringe every time I hear it.

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Haha, can't argue with that!

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Expletively,

zoid

P.S.
...And some people treat 'love' like a 4-letter word, too. Go figure.

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I treat it like a red, red rose. As in, it's a beautiful thing, but with lots and lots of thorns you have to watch out for. :P Also, unless you're careful to preserve it, it doesn't last long.


~Emma


"I swallowed a bug"

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Originally posted by EmmaZule:
By "dropping the f-bomb" I meant throwing it around left and right or in non-extreme circumstances, like I imagine Jayne might just do from time to time.

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