Jayne, Wash & The War by deepgirl187

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Jayne, Wash & The War

POSTED BY: DEEPGIRL187
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 18:50
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Sunday, April 23, 2006 9:09 PM

We already know where Mal and Zoe were during this time (obviously), Book was either off training to be a sheperd or doing scary Allinance things, and Kaylee, River and Simon were probably too young. But what about Wash and Jayne? Jayne does state that he didn't fight in the war, but what was he doing at the time? And Wash doesn't mention it at all, except in reference to Zoe. Did they both just lay low somewhere and wait for it to blow over? The war was so volatile, it seems like everyone would have been forced to choose sides, or at least have a small role in it. So what about these guys?

P.S. - I bring this up mainly because Jayne is the oldest (besides Book) of the crew. It got me to thinking, what would a man who's lived such a hard life do to escape a universe-wide war?

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 9:26 PM

Most likely the worlds they lived on never became a "part" of the war. Many moons and planets were simply isolated but were never actually invaded or war´ed upon.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 9:26 PM

Most likely the worlds they lived on never became a "part" of the war. Many moons and planets were simply isolated but were never actually invaded or war´ed upon.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 9:26 PM

Most likely the worlds they lived on never became a "part" of the war. Many moons and planets were simply isolated but were never actually invaded or war´ed upon.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 9:26 PM

Most likely the worlds they lived on never became a "part" of the war. Many moons and planets were simply isolated but were never actually invaded or war´ed upon.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 9:26 PM

Most likely the worlds they lived on never became a "part" of the war. Many moons and planets were simply isolated but were never actually invaded or war´ed upon.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 9:26 PM

Most likely the worlds they lived on never became a "part" of the war. Many moons and planets were simply isolated but were never actually invaded or war´ed upon.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 9:33 PM

In one of the commentatries (I think it's 'The Message') Alan Tudyk states that his own interpretation of Washs' backstory was that he flew a few missions early in the war and was then sent to a POW camp where he mastered the art of making Shadow Puppets.
I'm not sure which side that would have been, but I guess it don't matter.
Of course that's just his own interpretation and is not canon.

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 9:50 PM

I always figured Wash was raised and lived (for the most part) on a Core planet or moon, based on his way of dress and attitude toward the Core planets and moons. As the Alliance was the aggressor, most of these planets and moons would have been untouched by the War.

Jayne is a different story...I figure he dodged it every way he could, 'cause there wasn't any profit in it.

Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?

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Monday, April 24, 2006 5:54 AM

I think Jayne was forced to go into the family buisness by his father,wrestling alligators for show. They really had no interest in the war or who won. It was all about the "coin" for them.

Quote:
Originally posted by MagnusDamnoVir:
In one of the commentatries (I think it's 'The Message') Alan Tudyk states that his own interpretation of Washs' backstory was that he flew a few missions early in the war and was then sent to a POW camp where he mastered the art of making Shadow Puppets.
I'm not sure which side that would have been, but I guess it don't matter.
Of course that's just his own interpretation and is not canon.

could be where he learned to entertain himself with plastic dinos. At least while Zoes gone.

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Monday, April 24, 2006 5:59 AM

I do think it would matter what side Wash was on... can you imagine Zoe falling for an Alliance pilot?

Jayne, of course, dodged service. No money in fighting wars, regardless of who might win.

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I look out for me and mine... that don't include you 'less I conjure it does.

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Monday, April 24, 2006 6:03 AM

I Imagine that were the show allowed to continue for many, many seasons that we would have found that their back-stories were just as complex as Book's, Inara's, Mal's, or even River's.
I bet it would have turned out Jayne had done real dirty mercenary work for the alliance or the indepedence or both. Wash might have tried to fight but chickened out, something he was very ashamed and regretful of. Its a damn shame we may never know for sure.
-e

"Storms getting worse."
"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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Monday, April 24, 2006 6:05 AM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN

you're a very up person

One Day.
One Mission
One Army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, We Aim To Misbehave.
www.SerenityJune23rd.com

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Monday, April 24, 2006 6:07 AM

I've got 2 hours of studying behind me, 5 more ahead and then a 2 hour exam. You be up.
-e

"Storms getting worse."
"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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Monday, April 24, 2006 6:10 AM

Re: Wash being an Alliance pilot: The script for Dead or Alive pretty much rules out his ever having been a Browncoat, so if he was in the war at all that would put him on the Alliance side. Zoe did say there was something about him that bothered her, when they first met. (I always assumed it was the moustache, though).

Re: Jayne, the novelization says something like "Jayne had never fought in the war. Pay wasn't good enough, on either side". I know it's not canon, but it fits his character so well that I have no trouble believing it.

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Monday, April 24, 2006 6:10 AM

well i think, since jayne is a mercenary, he should have fought in the war, since its alot of work for someone who earnes his way with his gun...

wash seems to be from a core planet, he mentioned in mrs.reynolds that his planet had a very thick pollution, so i figure it was some highly industrialized core-planet, but he is too pacifistic to fight a war, always when it comes to decide who to shot he tries to bring in the point of not shooting anybody ("can we vote on this whole people murdering issue?")
he just spend most of his time on a core planet trying to avoid the war. Maybe the army wanted him to fight and he run away, would be an explanation to the fact why he has fallen in with some criminals...

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Well! If it aint somethin'!

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Monday, April 24, 2006 6:26 AM

AZHEA,yep I think Wash had nothing to do with the Alliance side.

DERANGEDMILK, I agree with your first post in part. The first part.We would have gotten to see some very detail background on both gentlemen.

Wash, a J/verse hippie?

"Zoe did say there was something about him that bothered her, when they first met." If I'd have thought about that statement at the time its a dead give-away for Wash & Zoe pairing up.

Just going by "Earth that is" history, with all the wars fought here there have been many ppl not involved in those hostilities and this is one itty bitty planet.

Out in the J/veres with all the worlds and moons I'm sure there were thousands upon thousands or millions of nonparticipants. Folks that wouldn't have cared even if Britney Spears had wow the BDW.

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Monday, April 24, 2006 6:29 AM

Jayne says flat out in The Train Job that he "didn't fight in no war." At least, that's his excuse for not initially joining the Unification Day bar-fight. I don't think there was enough profit involved for him to join that cause, though he may see a post-BDM war somewhat differently.

As for Wash, I quite like Alan's Shadow Puppet theory.

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Monday, April 24, 2006 11:46 AM

Jayne: I suspect that Jayne used the distractions of the war to his advantage, namely that it would be a little easier to steal from places that were in the middle of a war. Addtionally I think that it is likely that there would be a shortage of mercenaries during the war as many would either join or be contracted by one side or the other, leaving those that didn't pick sides to pick up the slack.

Wash: Simple, he didn't feel like joining. It is unlikely that the Alliance or the Browncoats would have taken a majority of their people to war so Wash just didn't get drafted and didn't feel like joining up. Maybe he feels guilty maybe he doesn't (I lean towards doesn't) but either way he avoided the war.

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Monday, April 24, 2006 12:52 PM

Ok everybody,DEEPGIRL187 has come up with an interesting post and has gotten me to scratching my head.

The Firefly pilot eps begins with the battle of Serenity Valley. Actually the end of the battle. I would say that its the last major battle and a decisive one in the war. Now six years later we see as pirates in space Mal with Zoey and Jayne.

Advance to the eps of Jaynestown where Jayne and Stich face-off. My question. How long has Jayne been a bandit? Certainly during the war for independence. This leads me to believe that Jayne never even considered becoming a soldier. He never really has aimed to misbehave. Heck it was as natural to him as putting on his shoes.

I am curious as to what became of Stich Hichen though. Any thoughts?

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Monday, April 24, 2006 1:00 PM

KAYLEESTHEGREATEST

wash flew a ship during the war but it was downed and he spent the rest of the war entertaining the prisoners with shadow puppets

Someday the verse will spit in your soup but at least they gave you soup.
one day
one plan
one mission
one army of browncoats
june 23rd serenity day

-Our mission as browncoats is to make us known.

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Monday, April 24, 2006 1:21 PM

KayleeistheGreatest beat me to it.

The backstory for Wash is elaborated on in the commentary for the episode "The Message"- there was a huge backstory for him that didn't get told, and only got narrowed down to the one line, "What do you want me to do? Shadow puppets?"

I don't think we ever learn what side he actually flew for, but my bet is that he was flying for Alliance, and was probably non-combat: ie- supply ship.
A supply ship would be a big target for hungry Browncoats, I would think.

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Monday, April 24, 2006 1:23 PM

KAYLEESTHEGREATEST,

In browncoat terminology thats called "Duck Soup" the Alliance better duck when that soup bowl comes flying back at'em.

Z

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Monday, April 24, 2006 3:46 PM

I've always had this idea that maybe Wash was in flight school during the majority of the war.

I've also always figured he grew up on a very industerial planet near the core (the Our Mrs. Reynolds comment) that supplied the core with it's luxeries, but didn't really have a whole lot of them, like a factory town or maybe a coal mining town. Kind of like the tenaments in NYC during the industrial revolution.

Based of all that guessing and assuming, I'd figure that Wash wouldn't have cared greatly, or even at all, about the Alliance's cause. But like so many others stuck in barrios, tenaments, and other poor frequently oppressed neighborhoods, he saw the military in general and flying specifically as a way out. Having him in flight school keeps him out of the fighting. I just don't think Zoe could marry a man who activly fought for the army she describes in the cut scenes from Serenity (the pilot)

Jayne: Especially before crewing with Serenity, Jayne's a true merc. He's not risking his life for any cause but himself or his family. I see Jayne as moving around the border and rim pulling jobs and basically keeping away from any and all armies.

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Monday, April 24, 2006 4:51 PM

I agree with LilKristy about Wash's probable planet. I figure it wasn't a sophisticated core world or an untamed rim planet. Just caught somewhere in the middle. I could see Wash flying transport ships during the war - gotta have food, weapons, and all that other stuff. Support staff, which would explain why he's not so great with the weapons. He could have been pressed into service and captured that way. Zoe wouldn't think much of it.

There's a lot of profit to be made in war, so long as you're not a soldier. I bet Jayne is a ruffian of long standing. He could have done all types of lootin and robbin before or after battles, while normal folks were lyin low. It would help cover his tracks.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:47 AM

I am actually rather curious as to how Wash would have avoided being used as a pilot in the Alliance military. Most likely flight school was a military/government operation much like it is today. Unless there's something we didn't get to hear, which is possible, I don't think Wash or his family would have had the money to send him to a privately owned school. He most likely would have been Alliance military. But then that opens up even more questions. Like how long was he in? How did he get out? After all. His skills as a pilot would have made him a huge asset to the Alliance. And not one they would want to let go. If it was an Alliance flight school there is a good probability he would have been flying for the Alliance in the war. Its curious how he ended working w/ Browncoat thieves. Just my thought.

Jayne - I find him relatively easy to figure out. He would have been doing the same thing he always has. Probably stealing and making general mayhem.

Bwah!

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:19 AM

Hey CantonHeroine!
Love your Thylacine Serenity logo.The Marsupial Wolf is the coolest!Also AWESOME artwork!

"Come a day there won't be room for naughty men like us to slip about at all"

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:25 AM

The only problem I see with Wash flying cargo ships away from the action is that he's so good. They stick the average pilots with the easy cargo runs and shuttle missions. The good pilots go to combat missions.

If he's in flight school then he's not ready for combat, no matter how good he is. But hey maybe you could chalk it up the Alliance stupidity in not realizing how good Wash was.

Quote:
If it was an Alliance flight school there is a good probability he would have been flying for the Alliance in the war. Its curious how he ended working w/ Browncoat thieves. Just my thought.

I am assuming that flight school would have been a military thing. I agree that Wash's family wouldn't be able to afford private flight school. Maybe at the end of the war the Alliance didn't need all their pilots, the evil rebels being suppressed and all, so, being the caring organization they are, cut the excess pilots loose leaving them well-trained, but without respectable jobs. And being such a good pilot, with such a love for flying Wash went looking for a challenge. He figured the most challenging flying would come in crime. then he happened to find a boat with potential for some real maneuverability and a hot first mate so he signed on.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 11:06 AM

I think Wash did some type of flying during the war and I could easily imagine the Alliance underestimating his skills. Especially if he's from some ho-hum mining planet. Wash is great at eluding pursuit, but we don't have any indication he knows how to be the aggressor, whether that means dog fights or dropping bombs. It also think it doesn't suit his personality. Troop transport could be another possibility. You wouldn't want to engage enemy fire while packed to the hull with the Alliance's finest, but knowing evasive manuvers would be necessary.

I think the flight school theory is also sound. Personally, I like a story where Wash did some type of flying for the Alliance but wasn't a killer. That way there's still room for the occassional tiff with Zoe over his old occupation, but it's nothing really serious. I guess I just don't want Wash to have a dark side.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:57 PM

I don't see Wash having a dark side either. I agree that I'm not sure Wash would be a good agressor, but that's not the only type of mission where a pilot might see combat.

I could totally see Wash in a job much like a Huey pilot in Vietnam. They delivered troops directly to the battlefield, resupplying those troops and taking out wounded and taking them out of hairy situations. I think that'd fit his personality and flying style.

But I don't see Zoe being ok with that level of invlovment in a man she'd work with, let alone marry. I also doubt Mal'd hire him with that past.

Then again maybe he was a private pilot during the war. He could have worked for company as a transport pilot. In a multi planet 'verse the military wouldn't be the only employers of pilots, even during the war.

I also like the idea that he flew for the Alliance. It provides a good source of conflict between he and Zoe that thy'd have to overcome to get together.

Some good fic writer needs to read this thread and write a good back story for Wash now.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 3:06 PM

Well guys I pretty much have to disagree with the military part of Washs flight tranning. I mean it may have been where he started but I don't think he finished there.

First I don't think Mal would stand to have an Alliance pilot flying "HIS" boat.

Secondly, Wash is so passive he just ain't millitary material. Just look at every group discussion where the act of violence is brought up. He is totally against any of it. Even when it came to the planed rescue operation during "SHINDIG". he states " It was very exciting. I was going to watch." He is really anti-violence.
Flying Serenity (and flying her extremely well) is his cup of tea.

As for his Home planet. I see it as a moderately wealthy industrial world. Midway between the core worlds and border planets. I feel like the powers that be in the verse keep their(laundry) rooms in the basement of their fine hotels. Therefore any smug,ugly and pollution producing planets and moons are nowhere near the beautiful core worlds.

Z

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:00 PM

I can see what you mean about Mal and lettign an Alliance pilot fly his boat. Thats why I like the flight school theory.

I have to disagree about Was being Anti-violence. I don't see him as passive. I think more than anything Wash is a smart ass who hides his serious side with jokes.

In War stories he jokes with Mal about never having been in a fire fight, but preparing for the rescue Wash handles the weapons with confidence some familarity (I know he's married to Zoe, but I don't use my husbands tools nearly that well KWIM) and during the rescure he moves in concert with Zoe and Jayne, shoots well, and dosen't have to be told what to do. He's done things like this before.

My point being Wash can handle himslef. It's not his "thing" but when nessessary he can do the violence thing.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:06 PM

I agree that I just don't see Wash being in anyway an agressor.

Maybe he flew one of the medical ships for the Alliance?

RMMC

One day.
One mission.
One army of Browncaots.
On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

http://www.serenityjune23rd.com/

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:39 PM

I like that idea, too. I think Mal could forgive Wash for helping the Alliance during the war (and allow him to pilot Serenity) as long as he wasn't too into the cause. If Wash was more or less conscripted to fly cargo or personnel Mal might just see him as another victim of the Alliance, running folks' lives. And I think Mal could forgive an Alliance medic pilot. I don't think Wash ever really supported Unification, but he doesn't show a strong opinion either way.

Of course, maybe Wash DID fly for the Alliance a wee bit, but either lied to Mal or deliberately failed to mention it. He could have told Zoe later and she might have decided not to tell Mal. That could make for a really interesting plot twist later. Mal finds out and gets mad at Wash. Zoe tries to stick up for her man and accidentally lets it slide that she knew. Now there's a rift in her relationship with the captain (more divided loyalty).

I agree that Wash's past could figure nicely in some fanfic!

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:06 PM

Well, Alan does say in the commentary that he would have wanted that his character flew that one mission, got downed and the shadowpuppet thing, and that he even tried to convince Joss of it. He also mentions that joss didnt bite on the idea and that he realised after a while that Wash hadnt participated at all in the war.
Saw the commentaries of war stories today.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:06 PM

Well, Alan does say in the commentary that he would have wanted that his character flew that one mission, got downed and the shadowpuppet thing, and that he even tried to convince Joss of it. He also mentions that joss didnt bite on the idea and that he realised after a while that Wash hadnt participated at all in the war.
Saw the commentaries of war stories today.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:06 PM

Well, Alan does say in the commentary that he would have wanted that his character flew that one mission, got downed and the shadowpuppet thing, and that he even tried to convince Joss of it. He also mentions that joss didnt bite on the idea and that he realised after a while that Wash hadnt participated at all in the war.
Saw the commentaries of war stories today.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:06 PM

Well, Alan does say in the commentary that he would have wanted that his character flew that one mission, got downed and the shadowpuppet thing, and that he even tried to convince Joss of it. He also mentions that joss didnt bite on the idea and that he realised after a while that Wash hadnt participated at all in the war.
Saw the commentaries of war stories today.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:06 PM

Well, Alan does say in the commentary that he would have wanted that his character flew that one mission, got downed and the shadowpuppet thing, and that he even tried to convince Joss of it. He also mentions that joss didnt bite on the idea and that he realised after a while that Wash hadnt participated at all in the war.
Saw the commentaries of war stories today.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:06 PM

Well, Alan does say in the commentary that he would have wanted that his character flew that one mission, got downed and the shadowpuppet thing, and that he even tried to convince Joss of it. He also mentions that joss didnt bite on the idea and that he realised after a while that Wash hadnt participated at all in the war.
Saw the commentaries of war stories today.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:50 PM

Good responses so far. Here's my take:

Jayne:

Joss has mentioned that "The Killer Angels," a book about the Civil War, influenced Firefly. The Civil War was almost entirely fought in the eastern half of the US. Many folks had already settled out in California and other territories in the West, whether they were chasing gold, or just looking for a new life. They heard about the Civil War that was raging back East, but they were never exposed to it.

So, during the war, I picture Jayne out somewhere on a planet like California in the 1860's, way out on the edge of the solar system. They heard about the war going on for Unification, but it didn't really bother them much. The planets and moons out there were too far away from the front lines for the Browncoats to care, and to small for the Alliance to worry about.

It was the frontier, and a man did what he had to do to get by. Legal or otherwise.

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