Serenity Day Supporters... by zoid

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Serenity Day Supporters...

POSTED BY: ZOID
UPDATED: Saturday, April 29, 2006 05:08
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Friday, April 28, 2006 8:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FollowMal:
Quote:
Originally posted by Agatsu:
So we massively recruit new people while organising shiny things for Serenity Day on September 30th.
We're gonna be in for a longer haul, but it's gonna be all the shinier. What say you all?

One

Finally at last someone has talked about this all out in the open rather than just worrying over what B!x is doing.

I say we wait til September 30th. Gives us longer and also let's us plan more and takes the controversy and problems that are occuring with
B!x and eases them. I don't like conflict within our beloved Browncoat ranks.. we are so good at holdin' together,let's hold somemore and make a real go of Serenity Day!

ETA: I just hit HOME and see that there is a thread started to vote... what a wonderful idea... then we get what ALL the folk want. Here I go.. off to vote and put in my 2 cents.

"You hold. Hold 'til I get back." Mal

I am with you Malicious!

As a browncoat, I will do whatever to necessitate another BDM!

I am on board with 6/23 to purchase several copies of the movie, but I am not at a location where I will be able to view a screening - so I am limited, but I will make a donation on the website.

I like your idea of renting Serenity. I have been posting on boards re: Serenity Day. Just tell what date for the big buy and I will have to go back and update those Posts....

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Friday, April 28, 2006 8:05 AM

ZOID

WhoIsRiver:

I was talking about the Buffistas at Whedonesque being lukewarm 'Browncoats'. Their one true love is Joss Whedon. Close second: Buffyverse. They watched Firefly out of loyalty to Joss, not because the show captivated them on its own merit.

If that describes yourself, your motivations: I do not apologize for my assertion. If the shoe fits, wear it.

Most of the new blood on this site did not get hooked on Firefly because of Buffyverse. They came late to the game, on the merits of the story.

For my own part: If I had perhaps paid a little more attention to the F*x commercials -- the part where they say, 'by Joss Whedon, the creator of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel' (or similar wording), I probably would never have watched Firefly. That's the amount of distaste I have for the Buffyverse.

It's a matter of personal preference, and I reserve the right not to love every word written by Joss Whedon.

Instead -- in my ignorance -- I related to the character of Malcolm Reynolds, a confused man of honor who has not lost his way entirely, but who lives in a world whose values are increasingly at odds with his own. The other characters strengthened or provided contrast to his seemingly insoluble dilemma.

Try being a person of conscience and conviction today, if you're interested in a real-life definition of 'ridicule'...

And thanks terribly for the 'Joss said' report on Equality Now. But Joss is not, in fact, God. He is a man, as fallible as any other. I was requesting an objective metric on Equality Now's performance as a charitable organization. Like this one:
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm/bay/search.summary/orgid/602
3.htm

Thanks for misunderstanding everything I said. Filters, WIR. Check your filters...

"Bullshit"-ily,

zoid

P.S.
The link above is only what I could find in a perfunctory search. I've gotta go get in the 6-hour waiting line at the DMV to get my 16-year old daughter's vehicle tagged, like, right now. Ah, the joys of fatherhood. But if anyone else knows a more highly regarded site, or contradicting report, I'm still 'collating data', as they say.
_________________________________________________

"And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling..." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Firefly, "The Train Job"

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Friday, April 28, 2006 8:24 AM

DAYVE

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
it is attitudes like yours that eloquently prove why a male-dominated society is so evil

Do I detect an agenda here?.... You make some good points to be sure - and all of your opinions are rightfully....your opinions, but are you trying to alienate members of the opposite sex....

I mean, I'm a guy....and resent your above remark, maybe as much as you resent what b!x says..... while i agree that many sins of the fathers are indeed, sins of the fathers.....please don't lump the entire male population in with such sweeping accusations..... I am a very peaceful person. I hate what this current administration is doing and would not hesitate to vote for a qualified person (male or Female) to get this country back to what it should be.

I'm really trying not to take a side in this.... splitting the fan base seems a poor idea.... and all this fighting is most definitely damaging my calm.....

And I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just saying that if you or anyone else wants to be taken seriously by everyone - male & female - it might be wise to refrain from prejudicial statements.

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Friday, April 28, 2006 10:08 AM

WHOISRIVER

Quote:

They watched Firefly out of loyalty to Joss, not because the show captivated them on its own merit.

You see, here you are making sweeping generations. Did every fan of Buffy watch Firefly because it was by Joss?

No.

That is wrong. There are a great many Buffy fans who don't like it. There's a Buffy forum with a page called "Fireflop" which tracks the failure of Firefly. There are an incredible amount of Buffy fans who feel Joss abandoned for Firefly.

And, of course, there are those who watched Buffy, watched Firefly, and fell in love with both -- because of the material.

Saying Buffyverse and Whedon people are part of the fandom _purely_ because of Joss Whedon is, in word, bull shit. It's also disrespectful to those fans -- of which there are a great many.

Why did I quote Joss on Equality Now, by the way? Because I figured his opinion might just matter. I do not think the man is god. At all.

This is, by the way, the face I'm making right now in response to even having to make this post:

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Friday, April 28, 2006 1:20 PM

ZOID

Back from the DMV in a record 4 hours! Wow! What a ride!

Dayve wrote, in part:

Quote:
Do I detect an agenda here?....

I'm a middle-aged white male. So, no agenda, per se. But, I do believe in equality for all people, without consideration of gender, race, sexual orientation, et cetera. Paraphrasing the words of the greatest American who ever lived (imo), Dr. Martin Luther King: I dream of a day when the only thing that is important is the content of a person's character, not the color of their skin, their sex, or any of the other things that make people unique individuals. Beyond that, though, is the stigma of 'social expectations': You are born a male: what is expected of you? You are born female: what can you achieve with your life? Iterate through races, ethnicity, creed (belief systems), etc. and then combine them until you have completely exhausted the possible permutations.

Please read my post above for the social expectations implications, which most people take for granted and never question. I'll not repeat it. Suffice to say that I think we have a ways to go; but that we can get there, if we treat others as we would have them treat us. And that means in the media and on Madison Avenue, most especially. If even one teenage girl starves herself to death in order to be as thin as her favorite emaciated TV or pop star, we haven't reached the goal (in my opinion).

WhoIsRiver:
I didn't say -- or didn't mean to imply -- that all Whedonesque members were blasé about Firefly. Some of the posters on the Whedonesque thread, linked above, came down pretty hard on their own naysayers, although -- it should be pointed out -- mostly by saying that 'newbies' should be allowed to learn what a hopeless cause Firefly is for themselves. That is irksome, but...

What I did assert -- and stick by -- is that those Whedonesque members flaming the Serenity Day efforts have a first love, and it ain't Firefly. That's why the site's called Whedonesque.

...Not Fireflyesque, for example. They love Joss, and every word that issues from his mouth. I've got no problem with that, until they start slamming 'Firefly-only' fans, that we are not as wise and all-knowing as they are. I take exception to that attitude, because there is a surprising dearth of evidence to support their assertion.

I am a Firefly fan first, foremost, and at this juncture, exclusively. If Joss creates another entirely different world I find compelling -- and I certainly think he's capable of doing that -- then that stance may change. But I will still want, campaign for, and rant and rage for the completion of Firefly. I don't care if this suits them or anyone else, to include Joss Whedon, Universal and F*x. Give me the end of the story and I'll shut up and go away forever. (Analogy: I read the first half of Frank Herbert's "Dune", turn the page, and all the subsequent pages are blank. My bookseller informs me the author and his publisher are currently uninterested in finishing the book. Grrr...)

And I am genuinely happy that Joss is touched by the fans of all his work outpouring of support for his favorite charity. It's a worthy cause. Any organization whose stated goal is to stop the outright torture of women, is at least a step toward furthering that cause. I'm not entirely convinced that, "distribut(ing) information about human rights violations; tak(ing) action to protest these violations; and bring(ing) public attention to human rights violations against women" is an effective course of action. I get a mental image of handing out flyers on the streets of Tehran to men who think, "And I was almost out of toilet paper, too". But everything worthwhile has to begin with a spark...

Beyond Joss stating that fans are making him happy, though, there is not a lot of substantial evidence in his quoted statement that Equality Now is definitively creating positive change. That's what I was asking for.

Quote:
Why did I quote Joss on Equality Now, by the way? Because I figured his opinion might just matter...

From the standpoint of an objective evaluation of the charity's effectiveness? Not so much. I think Tom Cruise is a good actor, given the right role. But his opinions on other topics leave some (actually, a lot of) doubt in my mind.

The link I listed above do give Equality Now three stars. That's not bad. Not as good as their 'peer', Refugees International, by contrast; but definitely not suspect of bilking their donors. They seem to be doing a reasonably good job of getting donated money 'to the front lines'.

What I'm saying is, it looks like it's okay (for those who like to know their money is well-given and well-spent) to support the organization financially, rather than just sympathizing with its intended benficiaries, and Joss.

And before we wind up doing that whole dance: Questioning something is not the same thing as doubting it, or disrespecting it. It's just good science. Discussing something is not -- at least as far as I'm concerned -- the same as fighting over it. Debate is a sport that benefits everyone. Debate consists of premises, arguments to support, and counterarguments to disprove (put simply). Therefore, arguing is not the same as fighting. It's when you run out of arguments that a fight breaks out...

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
C'mon. I know someone in our membership knows two or three more links to charity ratings sites. Cough 'em up. I'd never buy a car (or refuse to) based on a single review.
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Friday, April 28, 2006 1:50 PM

WHOISRIVER

Quote:

What I did assert -- and stick by -- is that those Whedonesque members flaming the Serenity Day afforts have a first love, and it ain't Firefly. That's why the site's called Whedonesque.

I think you'll find Whedonesque has a great deal of posters who don't like Buffy. Or Angel. It's a weblog for Joss Whedon's work, but a large part of that work -- the site was created in 2002 -- is Firefly. In fact, nearly all the members have joined because of Firefly.

Onto the next thing:

Quote:
They love Joss, and every word that issues from his mouth.

Here were are, back to the generalisations. Apparently all Whedonesque posters have Buffy as their first love, and love every word that Joss says.

Shall I email you the 37 page (Letter format - I'm not kidding) rant somebody emailed me about Joss the other day?

I really like Joss' work, and actually quite like the person-Joss (even I laugh at this sentence, by the way). He's a cool guy, with a dodgy taste in music.

Right, here's the next sentence.

Quote:
I've got no problem with that, until they start slamming 'Firefly-only' fans, that we are not as wise and all-knowing as they are. I take exception to that attitude, because there is a surprising dearth of evidence to support their assertion.

So, you take offense when 'Buffy fans' (by which you appear to mean anybody posting on a Joss Whedon related website) 'slam' Firefly fans?

Here we are on Fireflyfans.net. If I said people on this website had Firefly as their first love, and come here because they love everything about it unconditionally, and slam 'Buffy fans' - would that be true?

Nope. I think you'll find a very high portion of this website arrived because of Buffy, Angel and Joss. In fact, I can actually quote market research for Serenity which says slightly over 50% of fans using the SerenityMovie.com joined because of Joss Whedon's involvement.

So clearly anybody cynical on the old US site was a Joss lovin' fan boy and was slamming Firefly?

Nope.

Assuming everybody at a website "love(s) Joss, and every word that issues from his mouth.", whilst then complaining about people slamming elements of a fan base is basically hilarous.

I'm willing to speak out on this one for the simple fact people saw this whole Buffy fan angle earlier, and more than one message board lit up saying 'Hee, check out this' (paraphased).

Joss is a man who deserves respect. Without Joss, or Buffy, you would not have Firefly. Period. That said, if he produces something crap I won't watch. I'll continue to post at Whedonesque, and here, and would appreicate not being labeled because of that.

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Friday, April 28, 2006 8:19 PM

ZOID

Okay, WhoIsRiver.

Say what you will. I'll just believe what I read on Whedonesque. Unless you reckon they're being less than honest in their stated opinions. Are you sure you and I are talking about the same Whedonesque.com? I think you must have some other one you're lookin' at...

Your argument is basically that I can't believe my lying eyes. Interesting gambit, but a little facile.

Finally,

zoid

P.S.
The floor is yours. Draft days for the next two.

P.P.S.
Although I do stop by and browse Whedonesque on occasion, enough to categorize the opinions I read therein (not "characterize"), I am certainly not a regular there.

In any event, *ahem*, if I unintentionally insulted anyone, I apologize. I thought I was being clear about the specific attitudes I was criticizing. I guess I was not, since you thought I was talking about you, or anyone else who loves Firefly (somehow). See how easy that was? I'll say it again: I sincerely apologize to anyone I hurt/angered/distressed who didn't deserve it (collateral damage).
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Friday, April 28, 2006 8:40 PM

CALHOUN

I stand with Zoid!

STFU B!X you rancid distended rectum!

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Friday, April 28, 2006 8:58 PM

AUSSAY

Sorry I know this is a bit late and we have seemed to now agree to change the date, but Im feeling a bit like Mal after the Battle of Serenity.

Im a bit disheartened after trying to promote this only to find this sort of negatvie attitude towards just because something else is on the same day. Something that will not only promote it further but still try and acheive what every bronwcoat would want - a new movie.

I understand Serenity Now/Unity Now is an excellent charity and I can see how in some ways it may not be in the same spirit.

But gorramit why can't it be on the same day?

Anyways Im just a bit dissapointed.

One day.
One mission.
One army of Browncoats.
On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.
http://serenityjune23rd.com/

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Saturday, April 29, 2006 5:08 AM

WHOISRIVER

Quote:
I'll say it again: I sincerely apologize to anyone I hurt/angered/distressed who didn't deserve it (collateral damage).

That's cool - thank you.

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