Still a continuity problem with the DVD version by Shiny

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Still a continuity problem with the DVD version

POSTED BY: SHINY
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 10:24
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VIEWED: 4043
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Tuesday, December 16, 2003 5:19 AM

From The Message (episode 12):

RIVER: "my food is problematic"

JAYNE: "girl's a mind-reading genius, can't even figure out how to eat an ice-planet"

From Objects in Space (episode 14):

MAL: "I don't think she's intuitive, I think she's a reader"

ZOE: "psychic?"
...
JAYNE: "whoa...back up a second; are you saying she really reads minds?"
...
JAYNE: "well, I don't like the idea of someone hearing what I'm thinking."

Given what he said in The Message, plus the whole "I can kill you with my brain" crack in Trash (ep 11), it really doesn't seem like Jayne should be so surprised by this, even given his status as a trained-ape-without-the-training-who-makes-people-wonder-how-he-even-learned-human-speech...

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2003 5:28 AM

PHYSICSCHICK

I think it's possible Jayne said most of the stuff in jest at first and never really believed it until everyone else started discussing it seriously.

That's my favorite theory and I'm sticking to it (unless convinced otherwise, of course).

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Tuesday, December 16, 2003 5:57 AM

TIGER

We know the original episode order would have been 'Objects in Space’, ‘Heart of Gold', 'Trash', and 'The Message' if it hadn't been cancelled. I'd bet my first born that Joss wanted OIS to come last on the DVD because of the sense of finality it has (he may have done this with the original airing as well if he knew the series was kaput). Consider the last scene with River and the rubber ball - it's a natural ending.

He attempted to fix the continuity problem by replacing Mal and Inara's scene in OIS where River reads their minds with a scene that references Inara's intention to leave, but there was just too much to change in the other episodes to make it totally kosher with the continuity Nazis (kosher Nazis; interesting).

Hell, I like it just the way it is.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2003 6:21 AM

SHEWHOHATHAPEN

Yeah, it's pretty much like Tiger says.

Joss wanted them arranged the way they are because Objects is Space is preferable as a series ender.

There're also continuity issues with Simon and Kaylee, i.e. Kaylee whining in Heart of Gold about Simon not putting the move on her.

If you watch in the "Since the series was cancelled prematurely" order that doesn't make sense because Heart of Gold takes place after The Message in which Simon and Kaylee go on a date and he is quite obviously pursuing her. But you can't put The Message between OiS and HoG because the Inara's leaving thing is only addressed in OiS. But if you put The Message after OiS then we don't end the series with the whole "final piece of the crew accepted and in place" thing.

In the end, if having flawless continuity is more important to you than a warm fuzzy ending just watch them in the production order.

I sort of alternate depending on my mood.

---
"I'm very sorry if she tipped off anyone about your cunningly concealed herd of cows."

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Tuesday, December 16, 2003 6:36 AM

SERGEANTX

I don't get all the fuss. The continuity flows perfectly with the order presented on the DVD. If we'd seen them in that order to begin with I don't think there would be any doubts, assuming the discussion even came up.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Tuesday, December 16, 2003 6:43 AM

SHEWHOHATHAPEN

I'd still have doubts if for no other reason than I'm fixated on the Simon/Kaylee relationship so I definitely would have noticed a discrepancy such as the one that appears when you watch in the DVD order. The Jayne error I could conceivably stretch and let go as jest, just based on the fact that the people in Safe accused River of being a mind-reader and Simon might have mentioned it.

But I feel no need to look past either since I already know the explanation.

I'm not making a fuss, at all, in fact, since I do know that explanation. It's not an error on the part of the makers of the show it's an error that results from the actions of the idiots who cancelled it.

---
"I'm very sorry if she tipped off anyone about your cunningly concealed herd of cows."

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Tuesday, December 16, 2003 6:54 AM

SERENITYSSON

I believe, since Jayne has the cognitive ability of a radish, he did not really believe she could read minds until someone else brought up the topic. What he had most likely made as a crack at River, now seeming to be possible, freaked him out a tad.
As far as Kaylee and Simon continuity problems, I believe Kaylee is upset that Simon has not put the Physical "move" on her. Every time he gets close to doing so, someone walks in and he gets flusterd, or he says something really stupid and Kaylee walks away.
Jayne

Also... I can kill you with my brain...

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Tuesday, December 16, 2003 7:17 AM

HJERMSTED

Major continuity problem:

THE GORRAM SERIES ENDS ABRUPTLY AFTER 14 EPISODES (15 HOURS)!!!

If Fox had just listened to me and plugged this show into the vacant (former) X-Files timeslot on Sundays... keeping their grubby hands off of it and letting Joss do his thing..., we'd all be enjoying season two of Firefly right now!!!

Thank god Buffy didn't debut on Fox!

mattro

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Tuesday, December 16, 2003 7:35 AM

SHEWHOHATHAPEN

Quote:
I believe Kaylee is upset that Simon has not put the Physical "move" on her.

Just like I said regarding Jayne's comment, you can fanwank. It's not hard.

My position is simply that since we know the why of it, why bother fanwaking in order to account for things when you can just watch the episodes in their original intended order and be free of contuinity errors?

Oh, and Hjermsted? Big fat word.

---
"I'm very sorry if she tipped off anyone about your cunningly concealed herd of cows."

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Tuesday, December 16, 2003 7:49 AM

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND

Quote:
Originally posted by SheWhoHathAPen:

My position is simply that since we know the why of it, why bother fanwaking in order to account for things when you can just watch the episodes in their original intended order and be free of contuinity errors?
.

Were everyone able to agree on the true intended (though not necessarily original) order this would totally work, but alas we haven't and we probably won't. And fanwanking over stuff like this can be fun. I just watch them in the order that makes the most sense to me, which is with The Message being the last of the series.

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

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Tuesday, December 16, 2003 8:02 AM

SERGEANTX

Something tells me Kaylee wouldn't have considered Simon's lame attempts to approach her in 'The Message' anything like putting a move on her. She'll be chiding him for more until he takes into the engine room and... (censored)

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Tuesday, December 16, 2003 8:25 AM

KERNELM

Quote:
Originally posted by SheWhoHathAPen:
Quote:
I believe Kaylee is upset that Simon has not put the Physical "move" on her.

Just like I said regarding Jayne's comment, you can fanwank. It's not hard.

But if you think Simon in "The Message" was putting a "move" on her, then doesn't he also in Jaynestown? Admittedly drunk, but heck, they at least ended up physically touching in "Jaynestown" as opposed to "The Message."

Also, to me, Inara's actions have no continuity in the original order. Even without the reshot River scene, there's the scene at the end of OiS where she's very uncomfortable with Mal touching her at all. Would she be _that_ weirded out before HoG? Also, her talk with Mal at the beginning of Trash doesn't seem like the kind of conversation they'd have if she'd already told Mal she's leaving.

Just my POV.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2003 10:24 AM

SHEWHOHATHAPEN

Quote:
Were everyone able to agree on the true intended (though not necessarily original) order this would totally work, but alas we haven't and we probably won't. And fanwanking over stuff like this can be fun. I just watch them in the order that makes the most sense to me, which is with The Message being the last of the series.

I do the same and I'm not actually looking for a consensus really. I go with what I believe. This was mostly about it just sort of boggling my mind that people would think of other orders as being the most correct as regards the story when we know that the scripts were written and filmed in the production order, which just kind of makes it obvious in my mind that that's the most logical order for the story. Basically, people are free to watch in whatever or however many orders they want. I was just trying to understand why they would choose another order as the "real" order of events.

Quote:
Something tells me Kaylee wouldn't have considered Simon's lame attempts to approach her in 'The Message' anything like putting a move on her. She'll be chiding him for more until he takes into the engine room and... (censored)

A very good point, but at the same time I also think that Kaylee has towards the end of the episodes so far, if not accepted Simon's way of doing things at least come to understand it. I still don't see her complaining about how everyone has someone but her, etc. after The Message.

Quote:
But if you think Simon in "The Message" was putting a "move" on her, then doesn't he also in Jaynestown? Admittedly drunk, but heck, they at least ended up physically touching in "Jaynestown" as opposed to "The Message."

Not to get nitpicky but they do physically touch in The Message. The hold hands in the end :-) But point being, yes, Jaynestown had a lot more physical contact, etc. but I don't count that as making a move because as you've mentioned he was drunk and quite obviously upset over what may or may not have happened the night before. I think that it's quite obvious that if something did happen between them that night ::coughcough http://www.ljconstantine.com/fanfic/mark.htm coughtotallycanoncoughcough:: Simon would have considered it a mistake and I don't think Kaylee would be in too much of a hurry to think about something that he did while he wasn't in full control of faculties then regretted later as a viable "move". Basically, there's a big difference between someone making a pass at you while drunk and them consciously asking you to go out with them, spend the day with them, or even just hang out (or whatever resulted in the proto-date).

Quote:
Also, to me, Inara's actions have no continuity in the original order. Even without the reshot River scene, there's the scene at the end of OiS where she's very uncomfortable with Mal touching her at all. Would she be _that_ weirded out before HoG? Also, her talk with Mal at the beginning of Trash doesn't seem like the kind of conversation they'd have if she'd already told Mal she's leaving.

Actually, by production order and every other order HoG does come before OiS. I'm not arguing that.

The whole thing at the beginning of Trash is interesting, but you also have to note that in the original scene in OiS (the one now on the DVDs) Inara certainly isn't as confident and gung-ho about leaving as she was at the end of HoG; she's stalling having to tell the rest of the crew. And Mal quite obviously, doesn't want her to go as he shoots down her suggestions about a good planet for her to find some work on.

Then there's also the fact that the scene in the beginning of Trash fits in perfectly with the rewritten scene in OiS, theoretically they could have altered Trash to fit that, thinking that FOX would actually air it and The Message.

Though, in the end, it's really just not all that important and I certainly didn't mean for the discussion to go on this long when I first posted...

---
"I'm very sorry if she tipped off anyone about your cunningly concealed herd of cows."

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