Male and Female Imponderables, the Third by Tristan

I'm loving this discussion. While I've never gone all out and faked it, I've so been there with the this has been a great time but can you finish so I can sleep now?, and I thought I was a bad person to think that.

But how to handle it without faking or getting sore?

Men - what would you want your lover to do in this situation? Would it crush your manly ego to know she just wants you to finish up? Can it be handled lovingly?

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I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 8:59 AM

FLAUTISTFIRST

Raises hand quietly while sitting in the back row.

And I married him. Going on 18 years now. And it is still a mind-blowing wonderful experience.

And you all thought you were strange.

There's no place I can be since I found serenity.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:02 AM

COPILOT

Wow! That's all I can say is Wow!

An I carried such a torch

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:03 AM

Hey where are our shirts?

Don't forget "We don't fear the reaper"

LOL

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:08 AM

Never faked it myself...although some males can, it is usually a given that we are going to have an orgasm...we are a bit easier to reach the end than females (it seems...). I am sure I have been faked on before, but I am not sure...
To answer another question poised, I would rather be told that nothing is going to happen rather than risk straining something, you know?
I am also the type that "the woman must orgasm first"...that is because after I do, I'm usually done...well, my body is. There is "x" amount of time I have to please her before it's over. If it doesn't happen, I am not happy. I apologize if this is "sexist" (hehe) in any way, but I have always been taught "ladies first".

And as a side note, I would hate to find out that a lover had been bored...talk about an ego-killer...

Holding until you get back, Captain.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:11 AM

DAYVE

Quote:
Originally posted by EmmaRigby:
Alison Hannigan apparently played that part when the stage version came to the West End.

I would liked to have seen Allison in that part... Willow was my favorite character in BtVS.....

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:14 AM

COPILOT

Well of course the female has to orgasm first if she's ever going to. He had a the female must orgasm mentality.

An I carried such a torch

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:
I am also the type that "the woman must orgasm first"...that is because after I do, I'm usually done...well, my body is. There is "x" amount of time I have to please her before it's over. If it doesn't happen, I am not happy. I apologize if this is "sexist" (hehe) in any way, but I have always been taught "ladies first".

And as a side note, I would hate to find out that a lover had been bored...talk about an ego-killer...

Most guys I've known actually have taken the "ladies first" approach. Guess that means I've been lucky? But I hear what you're saying Tristan, the thing about being bored is that it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the person or even the quality of the... encounter. For me anyway sometimes I just pass that point where I'm still into it. Not that it happens all the time... but when it does, faking it just seems like the easiest way for everyone! I've been kind of scared that one time or another I'd get "caught" faking but that doesn't seem to ever happen... I guess in that kind of situation most guys just prefer to be happily ignorant?

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:16 AM

SASSALICIOUS

They're on sale at the fight!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:19 AM

DAYVE

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Men - what would you want your lover to do in this situation? Would it crush your manly ego to know she just wants you to finish up

I just can't get into sex unless there is mutual arousal...boring sex is, well, boring...might as well be playing golf...(sorta the same feeling...)

I don't think I have a fragile ego, but i've been down so long it all looks like up to me.... (that's a joke, son)

I think if you are with someone who is bored of having sex with you, maybe it's time to move on... Maybe sex isn't the only part of the relationship, but until you hit those golden years it is a large part.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:25 AM

FLAUTISTFIRST

Raises hand quietly while sitting in the back row.

And I married him. Going on 18 years now. And it is still a mind-blowing wonderful experience.

And you all thought you were strange.

EDIT: Clearly, I don't know how to work my computer or how to post on this board. I was trying to respond to Emmarigby's question about the first time being a mindblowing wonderful experience. But my post is so far removed from the original I doubt anyone could understand it. When I tried to edit, it failed, so now I'm double posting with an explanation. Yeah me for spoiling the mood.

Carry on as if I never entered the thread.

There's no place I can be since I found serenity.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:
And as a side note, I would hate to find out that a lover had been bored...talk about an ego-killer...

I hear ya, but I'm not talking about boredom, just occasional physical impossibility. I guess I'm like a man in that I got one time and I'm done for. Makes for tough logistics, re who's first.

Like someone else said, I've had the good fortune to have considerate lovers (or the stereotype of selfish men is overdone) and sometimes they try so hard, I don't want to disappoint...

I've decided that the fault is often mine for not being more open about how things are... it's just that the topic doesn't tend to come up beforehand, and I'm so afraid of crushing that ego! Must tread carefully!

Edit: [and warning for the too much detail, but this is kind of fun to vent] I should add that this is mostly based on my last BF, the stoner, who'd sometimes be too high and have a difficult time, a-hem, finishing up. It was sometimes unclear if he was waiting for me or what. I wasn't sure what to do about it.

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:39 AM

You are just fine. Double posts happen to me by accident all the time. At least you had a reason.

And thanks btw. I thought you were saying you faked all the time and it was mind blowing!

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:40 AM

COPILOT

Don't go away!!! You could probably give a lot of good advice Faultisfirst.

An I carried such a torch

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:42 AM

I would rather a lover told me things weren't going right, and either end it, or guide me in the right direction. It is so much easier for a man to "get off" that I think it is very important to focus on the female...and the female body is a wonderful playground! (don't take that the wrong way) It is vital to give as much pleasure as possible before the peak is reached. In a perfect world, the male would know exactly what to do, when, and how often...however, the erogenous zones of a female are elusive creatures. What turns you on one time may not have the same reaction the next. I love exploring and finding out where these spots went, but sometimes I like to know if I'm doing alright. No, I don't need scorecards held up (

) or anything like that, but gentle guidance is nice.
My findings; they may be exclusive or shared by other males...

Holding until you get back, Captain.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:45 AM

FLAUTISTFIRST

I have to go to the store to get a new keyboard now. I shouldn't drink pop while reading at the 'puter.

Very, very funny FMF.

To be clear, I've never faked. I've never had to. Am I lucky or what!

Any complaining on this topic has never had to do with the quality issue with my guy. Quantity maybe, but not quality. Perhaps if quality were the issue, quantity (or lack there of) wouldn't be the issue.

I can't believe I just told how many "strangers" this.

There's no place I can be since I found serenity.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:48 AM

There are no strangers here...we are all just folk.
It helps to type out issues, problems, and views...that is what this thread is for.

Thank you for sharing, Flautisfirst, and welcome to the thread (should have done that earlier, sorry!)

Holding until you get back, Captain.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:49 AM

Thats the beauty of a virtual world. We could walk right by each other and never know it!

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:59 AM

That would be a sad thought, though, FMF. I would love to meet all of you in person, share a pint, a shot, ice cream, vodka, whatever! I am looking forward to meeting some of y'all at D*C, and hopefully will run into some of you elsewhere!

Holding until you get back, Captain.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:05 AM

EMMARIGBY

Quote:
Originally posted by flautistfirst:
Raises hand quietly while sitting in the back row.

And I married him. Going on 18 years now. And it is still a mind-blowing wonderful experience.

And you all thought you were strange.

EDIT: Clearly, I don't know how to work my computer or how to post on this board. I was trying to respond to Emmarigby's question about the first time being a mindblowing wonderful experience. But my post is so far removed from the original I doubt anyone could understand it. When I tried to edit, it failed, so now I'm double posting with an explanation. Yeah me for spoiling the mood.

Carry on as if I never entered the thread.

There's no place I can be since I found serenity.

Ah that's sweet, and not at all what I first thought! I thought you were commenting on the later faking it discussion and concluded that if you could have the odd off night and still maintain a long and happy marriage there was hope for us all! Never mind!

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by flautistfirst:
Any complaining on this topic has never had to do with the quality issue with my guy. Quantity maybe, but not quality. Perhaps if quality were the issue, quantity (or lack there of) wouldn't be the issue.

I have to comment on this because I am having the same problem... Menfolk - any advice for the ladies on what to do if we want it more and it doesn't seem to happen naturally? Or ladies, anything that has worked for you?

My guy is great and we get along famously in this department, but lately it seems like more of an afterthought than a priority in the relationship. Mind you - when it happens, it's still great, and it's not terribly infrequent, but still I find myself yearning for a little more "gotta have it" sentiment from him, rather than the more typical "time for bed, let's do this". Anyone else?

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 AM

Something that from a male ideology might work: ambush. I love being ambushed. Walk in the door, and get dragged into either the bedroom (if we make it that far) or wherever we end up. I do not like planning out intimate encounters (do the laundry, clean the kitchen, make dinner, have sex, go to sleep...naw), but there are times when it almost has to be that way. To break monotony, try the ambush approach. I am going to assume that no male out there would complain too terribly about that (barring unforseen circumstances, of course), and would probaly get very enthusiastic.

Holding until you get back, Captain.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:20 AM

The thing is - I've gone with the ambush a few times, but the problem is that I want to be the one ambushed for a change! I've tried to hint around it, but even after 3 YEARS he still seems too shy to just grab me and drag me into the bedroom. Or, dare I suggest it, some other room entirely!

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:25 AM

I would love to meet everyone! I wish I could get to all the SHINY conventions and shindigs!

But at least the very shy can be safe in the knowledge that we can't see them

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:31 AM

Hmm. I am that way, too, sometimes. It may just be me, but I do not want to force something my partner is not interested in. I am guilty of ambush; sometimes it's taken well, sometimes, not so much. Now, if I get the slightest hint that she may be interested, I move and move fast. If I do make a move, and it is not returned or acknowledged, I back away smiling.

Your complaint is one that I have had, as well. Most of the time, the male seems to be the instigator, and the female's reaction seems to be "Alright, alright, just get it over with". This is not something that happens to me nowadays, but it has in the past. There seems to be a societal leaning that the male HAS to be the agressor. This is just a generalization, mind you, and may not be as widespread as it used to be. (I have met several very liberated females in these past three threads!) Men like to be seduced/ambushed/moved on, too. It just seems like males do the majority of the instigating.
Disagreements?

Holding until you get back, Captain.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:35 AM

Quote:

Something that from a male ideology might work: ambush. I love being ambushed. Walk in the door, and get dragged into either the bedroom (if we make it that far) or wherever we end up. I do not like planning out intimate encounters (do the laundry, clean the kitchen, make dinner, have sex, go to sleep...naw), but there are times when it almost has to be that way. To break monotony, try the ambush approach. I am going to assume that no male out there would complain too terribly about that (barring unforseen circumstances, of course), and would probaly get very enthusiastic

That is awesome Tristan - this is what I meant earlier about public gropings - not so much in the view of others, actually, not at all, that weirds me out - but just the ambushing thing.

More fun too-much-detail (I love the internet): I just got back from traveling, and went to fancy and exotic-ish restaurant in Tbilisi, which had a fabulous bathroom (which is very rare in Georgia) and I had a rather amusing idea that if I had a sweetie along, I might just yank him into the bathroom with me to make good use of the plushness of it...

Anyway, I've never been so forward in a relationship, not sure if a man would feel like he was being used by being so accosted, but that's silly. Most men would love that. No?

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:43 AM

You are very right that a lot of it has to do with societal norms and stereotypes. Maybe that is what makes me wish I were the ambush-ee a little more often. Although, it's true that I'm not *always* interested, but often enough that I don't think there's cause for him to feel like he's going to get shot down if he goes for it.

Like I said we've been together for long enough now that he's not totally self-conscious, but I feel like he's not entirely comfortable being the "aggressor" in the traditional sense. And I have never minded being the one to initiate sex but I guess the problem is I feel like if I don't, it just becomes routine. I know he enjoys it, but I don't know what else to do... or should I just get used to the fact that if I don't meet him at the door in a teddy, I have to wait until bedtime?

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:48 AM

Sorry, a post got ahead of me!

Holding until you get back, Captain.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Anyway, I've never been so forward in a relationship, not sure if a man would feel like he was being used by being so accosted, but that's silly. Most men would love that. No?
/B]

See this fits right in with what I'm talking about. My ex was WAY into sex, probably a little too much, but I think it got me used to the idea that men are supposed to want it all the time. We got carried away in any number of inappropriate places... but my current guy is practically the opposite. He surely enjoys sex, and knows what he is doing, but I never feel like he is overcome by lust... I guess my point is that there are definitely guys out there who are unbelievably turned on by something like that, and others whose reaction is just "no way, are you crazy?!?" I am trying to convert my current guy into being a little more of the former, but I'm not sure if it's working. Do you all think it's even possible?

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:51 AM

So - as an aside - you've all seen Fried Green Tomatoes, right? Where what's her name meets her husband at the door dressed in saran wrap?

Well, for work I recently had to ship big things, and I went out to buy a roll, 2 feet wide and ~3 feet in diameter, of bubble wrap.

Oh the fun that could ensue...

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I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:57 AM

Let's see if I can get this down before another post gets there first...

Mal4Prez, I can give you a resounding YES on that question. Again, unable to speak for all males, but it is great when I get ambushed, used for all I am worth, and left in a quivering pile on the floor while she bounces away to do something else. It doesn't happen often, but when it does, I have a dumb grin on my face for days.
So, by all means, do what you have to!

WorshipMal, it may not be totally necessary to meet him at the door in a teddy. Have you tried talking? Sorry, that may sound weird, but give me a minute. This approach is similar to the "ambush", but is much more subtle and refined...whispering in his ear that you would like to make love here and now. That way, you are initiating, and yet he becomes the agressor. With encouragement, most males will become the agressor, but we do need an indication that this is what you want. Try that, see if it works.
Does that make sense?

Holding until you get back, Captain.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by WorshipMal:
I guess my point is that there are definitely guys out there who are unbelievably turned on by something like that, and others whose reaction is just "no way, are you crazy?!?" I am trying to convert my current guy into being a little more of the former, but I'm not sure if it's working. Do you all think it's even possible?

I'm thinking a lot of these issues could be avoided if a couple could just sit down and talk about it openly. What do you like, what do I like, etc.

Which is something I've always dreaded, being a properly prudish American. Sex talk, oh fear, discomfort, yikes! I think I'm getting over it in my middle age, thank goodness.

Now, is that stereotypical chick behavior or what, suggesting that talking will fix everything... LOL!

EDIT: great suggestion re the sex talk Tristan! What an excellent solution.

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I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 11:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Now, is that stereotypical chick behavior or what, suggesting that talking will fix everything... LOL!

Well it must not be since you and Tristan suggested it at the same time! The advice sounds good to me. I definitely like the whispering sweet naughties into his ear idea... maybe I'll try that tonight

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 11:20 AM

The whispering has always worked for me...well, to me...um, against me? No, when it's used on me. Yeah, that makes more sense.

Good luck!

Holding until you get back, Captain.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 11:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by WorshipMal:
Well it must not be since you and Tristan suggested it at the same time! The advice sounds good to me. I definitely like the whispering sweet naughties into his ear idea... maybe I'll try that tonight

Well... I recommended boring grown-up talk, and Tristan added the naughty part. I like his idea much better!

Good luck with that...

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 11:35 AM

Thank you both - maybe I'll start an "Imponderables Part IV" thread tomorrow and let you know the result!

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 11:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by WorshipMal:
Thank you both - maybe I'll start an "Imponderables Part IV" thread tomorrow and let you know the result!

Excellent plan!

I'm out for the night, fun thread all!

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 11:56 AM

Worship Mal,
Per your idea, I will start Part IV. Not getting presumptuous, but I started the first one, and I'd like to continue hosting these...please don't take that the wrong way...I'll create the thread now...

Holding until you get back, Captain.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 11:59 AM