women folk in the verse by dianaspr

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

women folk in the verse

POSTED BY: DIANASPR
UPDATED: Monday, May 22, 2006 18:13
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Monday, May 22, 2006 3:18 AM

so I was wondering about how River was treated as a second class citizen by her parents in Safe, She was smarter than Simon,but her parents still put all the attention towards Simon
was this because
A) Simon was the first born?
B) women were treated as second class citizen by core planets?
C) their parents were involved with sending her to the alliance?
D) the alliance had the family threaten?

your thoughts would be appretiated

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Monday, May 22, 2006 3:36 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

My feelings from watching the episode were that Simon & River's father was more afraid for his social standing, wealth, and good name then he was for the welfare of either child. He and his wife were perfectly okay w/ sending River away to school, then ignoring Simon's misgivings about what was going on in the "Academy".

When Simon got tired of his pleas falling on his parents deaf ears he took matters into his own hands. He threw away his career and his money to build the contacts to find River and spring her.

Remember the scene where Simon's father comes into the Alliance station to bail Simon out for being caught in a "blackout zone". He was more upset about his record being permanently marked by entering the station then he was for his son being in what is perceived as a dangerous area of the city after curfew. I also point out how he told Simon he was cut off if he continued to pursue saving River.

Everything points to a man afraid of the Alliance and what they would do to him and his standing if he was implicated in freeing River. Obviously his wealth and standing meant more to him than both his children. That is what I can not fathom.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Monday, May 22, 2006 3:50 AM

VINTERDRAKEN

I just saw safe, and I thought that in the first flashback River was just younger then Simon. Then when he tries to tell them something is wrong I always get the feeling that they dont want to realise what is happening. In the last part I always get the feeling that its a mix of him not wanting to risk the familys social staning and that he doesnt want to loose Simon aswell, think there father knows that River is lost just feels he cant do anything to help her and wants to do his best to keep simon out of it.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Monday, May 22, 2006 3:50 AM

VINTERDRAKEN

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Monday, May 22, 2006 3:50 AM

VINTERDRAKEN

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Monday, May 22, 2006 3:50 AM

VINTERDRAKEN

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Monday, May 22, 2006 3:50 AM

VINTERDRAKEN

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Monday, May 22, 2006 3:50 AM

VINTERDRAKEN

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Monday, May 22, 2006 4:13 AM

PENGUIN

In some cultures male children are valued higher than female children. I think this is why the Tam's valued Simon more than River.

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Monday, May 22, 2006 4:13 AM

EMBERS

I don't think the Tams value their daughter less than their older son, originally they had been proud of both of them, now they are ashamed of both of them.

The parents, their wealth, their standing in society, and their self-importance was all completely a part of the Alliance being good and right and not to be questioned.
River chose the program, she was excited about it, and the cryptic message (and Simon's crazy ideas about it being 'code') was all a huge mistake.

It is called denial: to believe Simon meant giving up everything they had, everything they believed in. He was ready to do that, they weren't.

You notice that they didn't love Simon more than River, because just as they were not willing to believe River was in danger: they were ALSO not willing to believe Simon was right (they bailed him out of trouble once, but said "never again").

These people are still living in comfort and totally bewildered about how they went wrong (obviously their children fell into a bad crowd or got mixed up in something bad, for them to become fugitives and enemies of the Alliance, which is perfect).

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Monday, May 22, 2006 5:52 AM

ONETOOMANY

Quote:
Originally posted by Penguin:
In some cultures male children are valued higher than female children. I think this is why the Tam's valued Simon more than River.

This could be one of the main reasons beside thier father not wanting his reputation hurt. Since the verse is primarily anglo/asian (even though you never see a single asian in the entire series or BDM) it would make sense. With china's problems surrounding over-population & the limited number of births allowed. The tendency is to favor the males under some silly notion they're more valuable because the male carries on the name. Even though both sexes carry the genes

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Notice anythig particular 'bout our luck these past few days, any kind'a pattern'. You depend on luck you end up on the drift no fuel, no prospects, beggin for alliance make work getiin' towed off to the scrap out THAT AIN'T US NOT EVER

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Monday, May 22, 2006 6:05 AM

DEEPGIRL187

One theory I've seen in fan fictions is that the Tams were actually afraid of River. It's obvious that she wasn't a normal child (and probably wouldn't act like one either). It would be hard, then, to marry her off to someone respectable. So once they hear about this special "Academy", they see a perfect opportunity to get rid of her. Not to say that they didn't love River in their own way, but I think that their fear of her and what she could do overrode that love.

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"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."

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Monday, May 22, 2006 6:09 AM

ZZETTA13

I really enjoy seeing post of questions about FF/Serenity. There is just so much this verse has to offer.So much left unanswered.

Very good question Dianaspr.
For my opinion I would like to say that I don't feel that Simon and Rivers parents are looking for his success over his sisters. Or that women in the verse are viewed with any less value that their male "brothers".

During our brief look into the battle of Serenity Valley we see Zoey in a leadership roll and several women fighters in Mals squad.

In other news: we find Kaylee offered a job on FF/Serenity due to her ability as being a better mechanic. Even though the job had already been filled(by a male)

Inara holds in the verse a respectible possition and River herself is being exploited by the Alliance for her brain power.

Mal speaks of his mom (living on Shadow) with much respect as a tough woman that didn't take any crap off of the cattle ranchers she dealt with. Heres a lady that ran a business with several dozen cattle hands at her employ.

Jayne is respectful of the woman who gave him birth also. He dawns his mothers made Jayne cap with pride. Though everyone is making fun of him.

Simon says it pretty well in his statment to Mal about "What is of importance" in the BDM.
What is important to him is family and his sister. He gives up so much and becomes a criminal on the run to save his sibling.

As for Simon and Rivers parents. Looks to me that the "world without sin" verse has become somewhat of a ONE WORLD ORDER bully. To have something go on your permanent record because of something your offspring has done is one scary thought. The strait line set up for people to follow by the Alliance(and key members of Parliament) is very narrow.

I'd hate to be sitting at home then get a wave saying I'd gotten a dark mark in my file because my cousin was sited for spitting his bubblegum on the sidewalk.

Z

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Monday, May 22, 2006 8:19 AM

DIANASPR

well but i was thinking more in the lines of people in the core,
I say this cuz Atherton treatment of Inara was along tha same line and also wasthisname in Heart of gold and how he treated Mandy,
I know he was not at the core, but he wanted to be like them.
But i see you point

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Monday, May 22, 2006 10:59 AM

MORWEN112

The whole "blame you for what your family does" could come from the Chinese influence too. From what I've studied, it seems that Asian cultures value honor very highly, especially family honor. One is more part of a unit- a community, family, company, etc. In the Western cultures it's more individualistic, more about what one single person does to distunuish themselves. The Asian influence might play into what Simon's father is talking about with his reputation and all.

Quote:
OneTooMany wrote:
Since the verse is primarily anglo/asian (even though you never see a single asian in the entire series or BDM)

There are Asians in BDM (I can't say much about the whole series, I haven't seen it all yet). There are some in the Maidenhead (note the girl paid off to keep the pass off between Mal and Fanty/Mingo hidden from the cameras) and on the street outside. There are some as various Alliance soldiers too.

Mine is an evil sugar high laugh! Bwahahahaha!

Morwen

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Monday, May 22, 2006 4:19 PM

ZZETTA13

In the Joss verse maybe some see, with the conversion of both far east/western cultures certain infulences that have raised the ugly head of sudservient humankind. Were one group or cast of people are seen as less than that of another.

When it comes to the sexes in the Joss created verse I just don't see it.Whether on the outer rim planets or core worlds I have not seen any evidence of women being viewed on any level unequaled to men as a whole.

In the eps "Heart of Gold" there was a king pin (male) who wanted to control the women of the brothel and I would add the surrounding countryside as well.But this was an isolated case. Same can be said of Patience and Whitefall.

I do agree with Morwen112 with the honor of ancestry type thing maybe going on in the core.But I'm fairly certain that it isn't same with folk on the border worlds.

Z

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Monday, May 22, 2006 6:13 PM

MORWEN112

Yeah, the Outer worlds seem to have more of the American/Western culture. Which makes sense really. When you're just trying to survive on a recently terraformed world that doesn't have much of anything, extended etiquette and proticol tend to take the back burner to more important matters, such as if there'll be enough food for the winter...

Mine is an evil sugar high laugh! Bwahahahaha!

Morwen

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