Firefly Fanfiction: What Are Your Pet-Peeves? by Xeyra

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Firefly Fanfiction: What Are Your Pet-Peeves?

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POSTED BY: XEYRA
UPDATED: Thursday, November 29, 2012 16:57
SHORT URL: http://bit.ly/X5fdQE
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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:51 AM

It is interesting to see what people are annoyed by! It's funny too - because everything brought up here, when it's in a fic, gets its postitive comments.

We got all kinds here.

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I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:04 AM

SAMEERTIA

Well, my theory is "don't like it, don't read it", so I very seldom leave negative comments. If I read something I don't like, that's fine, no need to drag someone down by stomping on their creative baby.

I will, however, if I see where an author seems inexperienced, make suggestions for improvement of their writing style as gently as possible.

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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:13 AM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:
Well, my theory is "don't like it, don't read it", so I very seldom leave negative comments. If I read something I don't like, that's fine, no need to drag someone down by stomping on their creative baby.

I will, however, if I see where an author seems inexperienced, make suggestions for improvement of their writing style as gently as possible.

Good theory -

My BIGGEST pet peeve is when someone leaves a comment ripping on a fic that clearly stated it was slash, or was non-canon, or whatever!!

I forgot to agree about crossovers - I can't handle it. The one pseudo-exception being the "Nathan Fillion wakes up in the 'verse and has to be Mal" story. I forget who's writing it, but it's cleverly done and highly entertaining.

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I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:19 AM

SAMEERTIA

I tend not to read cross-overs at all, but so far I've actually read two Highlander/Firefly cross-overs that worked fairly well.

Someone did that terrifying Brady Bunch thing that was downright hysterically funny.

Buffy/Firefly? Not so good. I mean, Joss specifically left aliens out of Firefly, and my feeling is that demons and vampires don't belong there either.

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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:09 PM

RMMC

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:
I tend not to read cross-overs at all, but so far I've actually read two Highlander/Firefly cross-overs that worked fairly well.

Oooo! Could you please email the fic names to me?

Yeah, I'll admit it...*stands up ala and AA meeting* Hi, I'm RMMC and I like crossovers. They're fun. They're suppose to be fun. I figure it's got as much place in the 'verse as Rayne or Jaylee fics do.

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:

Someone did that terrifying Brady Bunch thing that was downright hysterically funny.

*shudder* That may be just a bit too scary for me.

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:
Buffy/Firefly? Not so good. I mean, Joss specifically left aliens out of Firefly, and my feeling is that demons and vampires don't belong there either.

Again, I find these kinda fun. However...I am sick of the 'River is a Slayer' fics. Just once I'd like to see a 'Kaylee is a Slayer' fic just shake things up a bit, But then, I'm weird.

Quote:
Originally posted by Squid:
I would like to see Joss's face if the subject of Jayne/River or Mal/River ever came up. Or my favorite... Mal/Simon. WTH?

He's aware of this stuff, trust me. They had the same sort of stuff happening in Buffy fandom and it finally got to the point where Joss just made a quick joke out of it in an episode. (Buffy S7, 'Beneath You')

In all the parings I mentioned earlier I forgot completely about the slah ones. I've got one work: ick. Just my person taste. YMMV.

Big huge long fics....if they're novel length, there'd better be a gorram lot of character developement AND one heck of a plot, folks.

Deux ex machina...present it right and I'll read it. Heck, I happily watched it in the BDM.

And now...authors who are unsure of where the story is going. Yeah, this kinda bothers me, but I also understand how it happens as I've got a few folks I number as friends who write...professionally. There are times when you can plot your story within an inch of it's life, but when you go to write it, the characters just won't cooperate. This means you end up going in an unanticipated direction in your writing. (There's a really funny song called 'Railroad Bill' which kinda addresses the recalcitrant character issue.)

Wow...I got kinda wordy again. Sorry.

*****
RMMC

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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:33 PM

STEAMER

Another thing that gets me, in Firefly and elsewhere, is when a fanfic writer seems to be deliberately misspelling a name. Like leaving the Y out of Jayne's name, or the E off of 'Washburne' and 'Frye', or 'Malcom', which drives me especially nuts. These are canon spellings, lads and lasses, and IMO they should be observed. One misspelling is one thing, but a succession of 'em? Sorry, no can do.

~
'Eta Gorram Na Smech!'
(That's gorram ridiculous!)

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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 3:09 PM

REGINAROADIE

The "Jayne eating the pet" comment suddenly made me think of that ep of THE SOPRANOS where Christopher was so high on heroin that he unknowingly sat on Adrianna's dog, which was this little rat/poodle called Cosette and killed it. And then later when he actually realizes what he's done, he says "She must've crawled under there for warmth." It still makes me laugh uncontrollably.

Jeez, after reading this tread, I'm starting to question everything I've ever written and posted on this site. But it's true that this thread shouldn't deter people from what they're writing. The way I see it, we're all fulfilling what we want to see involving our characters. If someone wants to write a Tolstoy lenth fanfic, go ahead. If someone wants x with y, go ahead. And if I want to read a fanfic involving Simon and River coming home and dealing with what happens after the fact with their parents and throw in a sub-plot involving the revival of rock music in a futuristic depression, then by god I'm gonna write it myself. No one else is gonna do it.

Peace

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"There's only one "Return" ok, and it ain't "of the King", it's "of the Jedi."

"Maybe we should start calling your friend 'Padme' because he loves 'Mannequin Skywalker' so much, Right? (imitating robot) Danger...danger...my name is Anakin...my shitty acting is ruining saga."

Excerpt of internet teaser for CLERKS 2.

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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 4:52 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:
I'm currently in the middle of a project to write every possible character pairing on Serenity, just to see if it's at all possible. (Some of them are posted here already.)

I have read the ones you have up; they are quite good! Hold Me is the only Mal/Kaylee fic I've read, and I have to say I liked it. I never saw the characters together (wonder how many times I'm gonna say that?) but it did work pretty well. And I will admit I have a secret love of Zoe/Jayne. Obviously post-BDM! But I can really see those two together.
Anyway, please keep writing them and posting them here!

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 5:02 PM

SAMEERTIA

Thanks PhoenixRose! I'm so glad you're enjoying them!
My Simon/Wash is almost done, as is Zoe/River. Probably up by the weekend, I think.

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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:56 PM

DCWASHINGTON

Hey all -

I personally, hate poor story thought. I find people just write and write without having a plan or even thinking 'what direction is my story going?'

I also prefer scripts to prose, because they are easier to read, and the end result is MUCH closer to watching a real Firefly episode.

Check out www.stillflying.net - script based continuation of Firefly from after OiS. Best fanfic out there, and I don't say that lightly. I was so impressed by their first season, that I joined them for their new shiny second season, airing now.

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Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:08 PM

CANTONHEROINE

Someone mentioned the thing about Zoe & Wash's kid's eyes - mine is about eye colour in general. I've seen a few fics where Jayne's eyes have been described as brown or green and it just drives me insane. It especially irks the portrait-drawing side of me, cause the first thing I always notice about a person is their eyes.

I never read slash, but I don't have a problem with most other non-canon pairings and am a HUGE Jaylee fan.

Grammar and spelling are what turns me off reading a fic. I also have a problem with the misspelling of character's names. (Especially Inara). If the writer didn't make the effort to get it right, why should I make the effort to read it?

--*--*--*--*--

Check out my artwork:
http://s43.photobucket.com/albums/e365/CantonHeroine/Sketches
REN: "We're not hitchhiking anymore! We're RIDING!!"
Ren & Stimpy (Space Madness)

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:44 AM

HAWKMOTH

Apart from the various grammar/punctuation mistakes that appear, it seems, in every fandom...

Over-use of Chinese. We rarely, if ever, heard it on the show for anything except swearing, short questions and the occasional greeting. It was there for flavor, a touch of the different. When it's used in fics for entire, multi-paragraph conversations, it's distracting and annoying. I don't care if translations are provided at the end of the story/chapter; it's just too much and way out of place.

I also dislike the tendency to overdo 'verse-speak. "Jist" for "just," "yer" for "your/you're," made-up spellings, too many dropped final consonants, etc. The dialogue on the show had a definite rhythm, with an Old West/Southern sound, but also influences of Elizabethan English. As mentioned somwehere above, making every character sound like a stereotypical hick just doesn't work.

Over-use of sentence fragments. They're fine in very small doses for narrative/dramatic effect. But entire paragraphs composed that way are wrong, wrong, wrong!

Finally, if I have one HUGE complaint about proper usage in Firefly fanfic, it's faulty punctuation of dialogue. I was even moved to devote an entire journal entry on that subject:

http://words-in-flight.livejournal.com/14637.html#cutid1

(And thanks for the oppurtunity ti rant!)

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 2:09 AM

SPACEANJL

To follow on from Hawkmoth -

Every character has a unique 'voice', a different vocabulary and syntax. If done correctly, you should be able to read a page of dialogue and know who is saying what.

I'll admit to the dropped consonant school of writing, but I don't think it detracts, if you do it properly. (Immodest cough)

Read the scripts, watch the show, and hear it in your head. The only way to do it. Think about where these people come from, their levels of education (or otherwise.) The information is all there, if you look for it.

SpaceAnJL

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 2:11 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by CantonHeroine:

Someone mentioned the thing about Zoe & Wash's kid's eyes - mine is about eye colour in general. I've seen a few fics where Jayne's eyes have been described as brown or green and it just drives me insane.

I haven't seen that one, but it would certainly irk me. What I have seen is the hair color desription being off. I haven't stopped reading a good story because of it, but I kinda yell at the screen every time I see, for example, Wash's hair described as red. Kaylee's hair is also described as red in some cases. Hers has red tones to it, but it's mostly brown, and Wash is completely blond.
I agree completely that if names are spelled wrong there's no point in reading the rest. The best fics are written by really hard core fans, and any true fan can spell the names perfectly.

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 2:54 AM

XEYRA

Oh my God. I've created a monster. LOL. Just kidding.

I've been loving all your opinions. I'm glad to see that there are different tastes for everyone. Some like certain pairings, others don't.

And pretty much everyone has some problem with bad grammar and mispelled names (everytime I see someone write Malcom I have an overbearing huge to knock my head against the keyboard, but I don't 'cause I like my head to be whole, thank you very much).

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:41 AM

MAVOURNEEN

I think it's important to remember that fanfic is almost always born from the writer's need for the series / characters to go on...for them to live another day. While not always done to what "You or I" would write, respect the fact that the writer felt compelled to write, and to share it with the world. It is a nerve-wracking moment…hitting that submit button and knowing your fiction, your idea of “What Happens Next” is available to anyone, anywhere, at anytime.

That said, I must admit I read a slash story with Wash giving Mal a hummer in the Mess and I was nauseated. Just. Wouldn't. Happen.

I can deal with crossover. I can deal with Original Characters. I can deal with the occasional Mary Sue. I can deal with X rated scenes.

I can't deal with non-canon actions and dialogue.

Agentrouka posted this previously in this thread:

“I mean, there are always going to be different interpretations of a character, but some things are just facts.

Mal is distrustful of strangers, not a noble hero swooping in to save every damsel.
Inara is a dignified adult woman, not a shrieking, hapless and easily manipulated victim.
Jayne has brains - but not too much.

And so on...”

Yep. Yep, Triple Yep.

I personally would rather read one long story/novella than 4,000 ½ page chapters. But hey, that’s just me.

I’ve read some AMAZING stories. I’ve read stories where I’ve questioned the sanity of the writer. I’ve read everything in between. The point is, I’ve read… and shared the author’s urge for the character to live on. To find out “What Happens Next.”

"Have you ever been with a Warrior Woman?"

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:48 AM

SAMEERTIA

:D
Not to mention you go through quite a few keyboards that way! I cured myself of it by buying an expensive laptop. I don't dare slam my head into it.

I think using slang spellings works if it's how the character speaks, it gives the essence of the character's voice. Mal says, "Y'all", Zoe doesn't. She says "You". Simon has the crispest pronunciation on the shi'P' and an author should try to capture that as best they can with his dialogue.
Kaylee says, Capt'n almost slurred to Capmm UNLESS she's teasing him, "Captain Tightpants". She doesn't say "Cap", not that I can recall.

The trick is to recall each voice and bring it to life through words.

ps- I LOATHE Script format fanfic! I want to feel, see and sense each character, set and scene. Script format seems to me like a lazy way to get out of true descriptive writing.

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 6:05 AM

EMMARIGBY

Quote:
Originally posted by Mavourneen:

I can deal with crossover. I can deal with Original Characters. I can deal with the occasional Mary Sue. I can deal with X rated scenes.

I can't deal with non-canon actions and dialogue.

Yay! Someone who doesn't feel sickened by my embarrassing pervertions (I'm talking here of cross-over fic - for those who like to mash all the good stuff in their life into one fun, if not altogether authentic, package!)

I am glad to see the range of likes and dislikes on this site. After all there is room in the world for all styles (except the badly written!) and if something isn't your cup of mudders milk you can always click the back button!

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 6:26 AM

EKIDD79

Use original characters, but please don't base them on yourself especially when they then have a relationship with a main character it just don't sit right.

Take notice of how characters react and their dialogue, I hate totally non-canon situations.

Oh and stay away from Xovers, they rarely work.

And don't turn it into an epic, I rarely read fanfic which is into chapter twentysomething, it usually loses the orignal story and dynamic. Think beginning, middle and end, turn it into several 'episodes' or sequels if you have to, but don't over do it.

Finally check your spelling and grammar, the basics work best...and if you start a fanfic, for gods sake finish it....don't leave us hanging!

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 6:47 AM

SAMEERTIA

ekidd79,

Please take care. This about personal pet peeves, not about trying to discourage any writer from creating what their heart desires, be that a cross-over or original character/mary sue fic.

If you don't like them, that's fine, and you're welcome to say so, but others DO like them, enjoy reading and writing them. Please don't stomp on their creative babies just because you don't like them.

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 6:56 AM

EKIDD79

It's about personal pet peeves and those were mine...I've read and written ALOT of fan fiction in the last few years and I would never discourage anyone to write, but with criticism people can only improve their writing.

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 6:58 AM

SAMEERTIA

And I quote:

Quote:
Originally posted by ekidd79:
Oh and stay away from Xovers, they rarely work.

And don't turn it into an epic, I rarely read fanfic which is into chapter twentysomething, it usually loses the orignal story and dynamic. Think beginning, middle and end, turn it into several 'episodes' or sequels if you have to, but don't over do it.

This is telling people WHAT to write based on your personal preferences, which is NOT what this thread is about.

Not your cup of tea? FINE! Say that you don't enjoy them, but don't tell the author not to write them.

Can you see the difference?

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:07 AM

EKIDD79

Thanks for the criticism, duely noted.

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:19 AM

EMMARIGBY

Quote:
Originally posted by ekidd79:
It's about personal pet peeves and those were mine...I've read and written ALOT of fan fiction in the last few years and I would never discourage anyone to write, but with criticism people can only improve their writing.

Yes, but there's a subtle but important difference in saying 'I don't like to read' rather than 'You should not write'.

As previously stated, I happen to like xover stories. It's true that at their worst they're awful but done well they make me squeal with joy (I am a simple soul!)

Sometimes even the truley self-indulgent Mary Sue stories are fun to read, just to laugh fondly at someone else's private (or not so private) fantasies!

I particularly liked this rather cruel but accurate parady of a Lord of the Rings Mary Sue ficlet over at fanfiction.net

www.fanfiction.net/s/1004203/1/

Sadly I've seen some on there that are almost as bad! It does point out some big no-nos though!

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:30 AM

JOSSISAGOD

Not fond of Jaylee, Mal/Kaylee or River/Jayne, River/Mal. other than that I love the fanfic. Oh, and the length of a story makes me stop reading, if it's too long i get disinterested.

JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:41 AM

DIZ

Give me a story that's well-written, has a snap-cracking plot, and characters that ring true, and I'll accept almost anything.

One thing that bugs is when "'verse speak" is used during narration. For instance, "Mal took the gun while shakin' his head; he dinit knowed what were worse: the fact that River done kissed him, or that she had bin so creative-like wit her tongue." It's especially bad when it's not inner-dialog. And even if it's inner dialog, people tend to think better grammar then they speak. So Mal might drop his g's in words ending in -ing when speaking, but it's doubtful that's how he thinks. It's also very distracting to read, and doesn't tend to flow.

I'm not fond of frequent changes in point-of-view. It can be confusing if first it's Mal's point-of-view, then next sentence, Inara, and so forth. It's easier to read fic that shifts point of view no more then once a paragraph; but I think scenes work better if there is one consistent point-of-view per scene.

I do enjoy inner dialog, because what's the point of reading fiction if one does not get in the head of the characters?

And finally, fics that start out but never get finished. I'm not guilty of that at all. *ahem* (I've been working on my fic forever, and hope one day to have it done and posted; but I rushed it and posted the chapters I had just written, and regretted it, then vowed not to post until it was done.)

---------------------------------
Welcome to Serenity - Joss Whedon

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:52 AM

XEYRA

Quote:
Originally posted by Diz:
Give me a story that's well-written, has a snap-cracking plot, and characters that ring true, and I'll accept almost anything.

Amen to that!

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

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Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:45 PM

LAUGHINGMUSE

Someone else mentioned that they don't enjoy reading Simon/Kaylee fic because it's too nice, and this person prefers a bit of darkness. I agree...with a slight addendum:

I enjoy the well-written S/K stories, but I do dislike the near-reflexive, nice but kind of simplistic "they get married, they raise a family" plotline. Simon's still technically running from something rather than to something. He left his old life to get River away from harm, but I doubt that he thought beyond getting River away from the Academy. As such, he's been living in "reaction" mode for the past year, without the material comforts to which he was accustomed. What will happen when he looks around, takes stock, and begins to see that his sister doesn't absolutely require his full attention and support to live - even thrive? Will he look forward to staying on Serenity, including the arguments with the captain and sniping with Jayne? When will he feel that he's valued on Serenity? And until he does...what effect will that have on Simon and Kaylee's relationship? What does he want? What does she want? How will they go about deciding that for themselves, deciding that for the two of them, working out a compromise? Or will they just settle for living for the day, because they don't know how to plan for anything together but don't want to let go of a bright spot in their lives? (Because that never happens in real life. Nooooooooo...)

People - there's gold in them thar plotbunnies. Darkness and struggle and stories and fiction without having to go into Deepest Darkest Angst Country.

There are days when I really wish I could write fanfic longer than a vignette. All I can do is Armchair Ficwrite.

(Sincere apologies to the original poster of this sentiment - but I don't remember which poster you were!)

---------------------------------
Mankind makes tools; we use them to augment our hands, arms and legs.
The computer augments the brain and this makes it very unpopular with totalitarians. - Charles J.C. Lyall

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Friday, May 26, 2006 3:45 AM

MAVOURNEEN

Quote:
Originally posted by LaughingMuse:
Simon's still technically running from something rather than to something. He left his old life to get River away from harm, but I doubt that he thought beyond getting River away from the Academy. As such, he's been living in "reaction" mode for the past year, without the material comforts to which he was accustomed. What will happen when he looks around, takes stock, and begins to see that his sister doesn't absolutely require his full attention and support to live - even thrive? Will he look forward to staying on Serenity, including the arguments with the captain and sniping with Jayne? When will he feel that he's valued on Serenity? And until he does...what effect will that have on Simon and Kaylee's relationship? What does he want? What does she want?

---------------------------------
Mankind makes tools; we use them to augment our hands, arms and legs.
The computer augments the brain and this makes it very unpopular with totalitarians. - Charles J.C. Lyall

This is exactly the "within canon" sentiments most people who read fic are asking for...regardless of whether the fic is set pre or post BDM. It has to ring true. Where is the next logical place for that character to be in time and space? Expand their horizons, but make it ring true.
I enjoy reading fic that introduces Original Characters - hell, where would we be without Atherton Wing, Nandi, or Jubal Early? They were all single episode characters...the closest equivalent of an OC. Their presence enhances the continuing storyline.

My petpeeve is non-canon action and dialoge for the crew. Simon and Kaylee may knock boots, but there will be no "White Picket Fence" for them.

"Have you ever been with a Warrior Woman?"

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Friday, May 26, 2006 3:58 AM

ELOISA

Indigostarblaster mentioned above that s/he thinks third subjective is a big no-no. As someone who's written well over a million words all told, IMO third subjective is the best way to write any novel that isn't either a straight thriller or the type of old-school hard SF that was in vogue fifty years ago, and it seriously annoys me when authors don't use it in its place. Actions and dialogue alone don't make most stories work; character perspective is very important. Even something as simple as the fact that different characters put different emphasis on different things in their surroundings is important - effective internal dialogue is as crucial as spoken dialogue in the effective depiction of a canon character. In addition, shifting perspectives in the right way makes a long story far richer. For what I mean, please see Mal4prez's The Fish Job, especially round about chapters 11-16 where Mal's perspective on the ongoing situation clashes strongly with that of his crew. It's all very well to say that we're fanficcing a TV show, but unless we're writing script format we're writing short stories, novellas or novels. The rules differ.

That said, poor characterisation of any character in thought, word or deed annoys me. My favourite peeves including making Simon (and Kaylee) too nice or passive, making Inara too helpless (she's clearly had combat training, for instance) or too free with her emotions, making Jayne too nice and making Zoe too feminine outside of her private time with her emotional battering ram of a husband. River's level of sanity is an obvious problem because it's unclear how stable she is at the end of the BDM, so anything plausible is fine by me, as with Mal's evolution at the end (whether he is easier or harder to live with - there are arguments on both sides).

Plausibility. Hm. From believable characterisation comes believable plot. It's the same thing as effectively building the characters; if the story doesn't work or has gaping holes in it, I'll be dissatisfied. As a result, I dislike almost all post-BDM fics where Wash and Book are alive. The one counter-example is How I Soar, an AU where Zoe dies instead of Wash, a theory that works well in context.

Non-canon pairings, again, need to be plausibly written to catch my eye. People have mentioned Rayne - there are a few Raynes out there where they don't just turn round, look at each other and meet in a moment of animal passion, which is dreadful for any pairing, but where they slowly work out the issues and end up together almost by accident. The same has to apply to slash fiction, but I'll read it with pleasure if it's good. I've actually written non-canon slash in other fandoms, but wouldn't attempt it in Firefly as I see it as too difficult for me to find a way to make it work. That's my attitude to how rare good slash in this fandom is (and exactly how good the good slashers are).

Any OCs, not just obvious Mar(t)y S(t)ues, annoy me unless they are as carefully constructed as any character in that position would be in an original novel. (Gideon in Kaynara's Bed and Wine, for instance, is a positive example.)

Poor spelling and grammar kills my enjoyment of a story unless it is used for emphasis by a writer who can clearly use perfect grammar if necessary (it does so to the extent that I'd just delightedly read five or so chapters of a story at once (on another site), and a single misspelt word threw me off for the next three). Like various posters above, it annoys me if authors use too many artifically contracted words for a character's speech, as opposed to an appropriate level of slang.

Chinese doesn't bother me too much. Inara's greeting to the older man at the ball in Shindig suggests that it is used for long conversations in canon as well as for substitute vulgarity to beat the US censors.

***
http://forums.ffonline.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19
Creative Writing

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Friday, May 26, 2006 4:01 AM

XEYRA

Quote:
Originally posted by Mavourneen:
I enjoy reading fic that introduces Original Characters - hell, where would we be without Atherton Wing, Nandi, or Jubal Early? They were all single episode characters...the closest equivalent of an OC. Their presence enhances the continuing storyline.

I don't mind OCs. In fact, I quite like them... when they're done well.

It seems fandom, whatever it is, has a tendency to have a frightening number of female or male original characters that border or are, without a doubt, Mary Sues/Marty Stues, too perfect to be true, more powerful than any canon character, who save the day and get to be the love of a beloved canon character. Too many times OCs tend to fall into this trap, of being just a bit too perfect. Of being too... two dimensional. I really hate those kinds of OCs.

On the other hand, I love a well done original character, with strengths and weaknesses, with a belieavable story, with an actual personality instead of an aglomeration of all known virtues or somesuch. I've found quite a few stories in the Firefly 'verse that introduce some really cool and interesting new characters, even if some of them desmontrate a few Sue/Stue characteristics, but I don't mind them so much because the characters are actually truly fleshed out and they fit well!

When they're done well, when they are written by someone who really knows how to write and doesn't fall into the trap of making their OC just a bit too powerful or perfect, then I absolutely love them. But when I read "long flowy hair" and "violet eyes" and "psychic" in the same sentence, I tend to hit the back button if I'm smart or continue reading with dread if I'm feeling sufficiently masochistic that day...

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

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Friday, May 26, 2006 4:27 AM

DEEPGIRL187

Quote:
Originally posted by LaughingMuse:
(Sincere apologies to the original poster of this sentiment - but I don't remember which poster you were!)

No apology needed; that was me. And I certainly agree with your point; depth of character is a nice thing to have. For second there, I thought I was the only one that had a beef with S/K fics.

**************************************************

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."

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Friday, May 26, 2006 5:59 AM

SAMEERTIA

Quote:
Originally posted by Xeyra:
[When they're done well, when they are written by someone who really knows how to write and doesn't fall into the trap of making their OC just a bit too powerful or perfect, then I absolutely love them. But when I read "long flowy hair" and "violet eyes" and "psychic" in the same sentence, I tend to hit the back button if I'm smart or continue reading with dread if I'm feeling sufficiently masochistic that day...

Ertia tossed her long red hair over shoulder, gazing sulkily at Jayne with her dark hazel green eyes. Since Blue Sun had stripped her natural psychic abilities, she could no longer drink his simple sexual thoughts. She would have to wait for him to come to her.

Yah...okay, see what you mean.

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Friday, May 26, 2006 7:58 AM

INDIGOSTARBLASTER

Hey Eloisa,

I take your point about the fact that third person subjective is the way most fiction is supposed to be written. You're right; almost everything I read is third person subjective and I never even notice it.

But I really do dislike a lot of Firefly fanfic written in third person subjective. Hmm... I think it's because I'm reading it mostly because I miss the TV show -- I want the TV show back, not a novel or written piece of fiction at all -- and so I get annoyed reading lengthy descriptions of the characters' insides, because I picture the TV screen with the characters just standing there, not doing anything.

And maybe that's why I actually really liked "Fine Line", even though that's third person subjective from Inara's point of view; I can picture exactly what she's doing while she's thinking :)

At the end of the day, I guess good writing is good writing and can break any rules and violate any pet peeves.

Indigo S.

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Friday, May 26, 2006 8:30 AM

REGINAROADIE

Even though in my story Kaylee's five months along, I've actually thought about the whole conundrum you've brought up. I wanted there to be a story where Simon and River go home and deal with what has happened with their family with their folks. I've read some reunion stories that are similar in nature, but they all seem rushed to me, mainly because they're still fugees and the whole "The Alliance is coming" thing always makes them leave early before anything is really resolved. So basically the main reason why I decided to bankrupt the Alliance was so that they could reunite with their folks without having to worry about being caught. They'll leave when they're good and ready.

The reason why it's taking so long for me to write this story and post chapters of it is for two reasons. 1) Work and regular life with school and summer jobs and 2) I really want my story to be incredibly well written. Everything you've mentioned at one point on this thread I'm taking into consideration so that I can write something more emotionally honest and better than anything out there.

LaughingMuse, I'd like to know what you think of my story, YOU CAN'T GO HOME AGAIN and if addresses your issues with S/K fanfics.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"There's only one "Return" ok, and it ain't "of the King", it's "of the Jedi."

"Maybe we should start calling your friend 'Padme' because he loves 'Mannequin Skywalker' so much, Right? (imitating robot) Danger...danger...my name is Anakin...my shitty acting is ruining saga."

Excerpt of internet teaser for CLERKS 2.

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Friday, May 26, 2006 8:54 AM

DIZ

Those are simply misspellings. I suppose a case could be made that it is a canon spelling, but Joss always spells it "MalcoLm", and it's that way is in his script.

---------------------------------
Welcome to Serenity - Joss Whedon

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Friday, May 26, 2006 9:54 AM

DIZ

Well, when I said "misspellings", I meant on the part of the production crew that made the screens up (and somehow the director must have missed it. ;)).

In any case, Joss is the creator of Mal, and so how he has always spelled the name trumps how it was in the movie, to me at least. Tho, as I said, it can be argued to be canon. I just believe it's a flub, and not intentional.

It might be picky, but these are pet-peeves, which tend to be picky little things. :) For myself, spelling Mal's name wrong doesn't bug so much because it's a fairly subtle spelling error (and then there is always the movie to support the spelling), but misspelling Jayne as Jane, or Inara and Anara or something just really bothers me because it jumps right off the page and screams "wrong!" to me. But that's just me. :)

---------------------------------
Welcome to Serenity - Joss Whedon

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Friday, May 26, 2006 10:01 AM

Personally, I hate myself for posting 'original' fics, thinking they'd do well and be praised.

How wrong I was...

-13

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Friday, May 26, 2006 10:32 AM

LEIASKY

>Personally, I hate myself for posting 'original' fics, thinking they'd do well and be praised.

Well, typically, we like fanfic because it takes the characters we all know and love and puts them in situations we want to read about, or that we think would have happened if the series had gone on long enough.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

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Friday, May 26, 2006 1:53 PM

LAUGHINGMUSE

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
LaughingMuse, I'd like to know what you think of my story, YOU CAN'T GO HOME AGAIN and if addresses your issues with S/K fanfics.

Hi reginaroadie,

I dropped a message to you through the FFF system. Short answer, that story avoids two of my listed peeves, but it doesn't really address the evolution of their relationship on its own.

---------------------------------
Mankind makes tools; we use them to augment our hands, arms and legs.
The computer augments the brain and this makes it very unpopular with totalitarians. - Charles J.C. Lyall

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Friday, May 26, 2006 2:44 PM

Good point, Leiasky..

Perhaps the two crews could meet up? Friends or enemies? Got me a'thinking...

-13

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Friday, May 26, 2006 7:56 PM

VELOXI

My pet peeve? That it exists at all. ;) Sorry, but I hate fan-fic, it's usually a jumbled mess of shoddy ideas and bad writing mixed with egotism.

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Friday, May 26, 2006 8:19 PM

NOSADSEVEN

Quote:
Originally posted by JillArroway:
Yes, it is spelt "Malcolm" in the script. But it's also spelt "Malcom" in the movie. So which is more canon, where script and movie contradict?

Could it really be a mis-spelling? Mal's war record? As delivered from the Alliance by computer to an Operative of the Parliament? Could it really be mis-spelt three times?

Those same screens also say he was a Captain in the war, that he's about 50 years old, and that he got a commendation for his actions at Serenity Valley from what would then be a defunct military command. That his name is spelled incorrectly on those screens just reassures me that the other inconsistant information on them is more likely flub than fact.

IIRC, the original intention was for the relavent information to be divulged through dialogue, rather than the visual screens, so there may not have been quite as close an oversight on them as one would expect. Or one could simply fanwank that the Alliance's databases are as wildly inaccurate as those of today. (Have you ever checked your credit report?)
......

But back to fanfic...

Someone commented liking script form better. I really prefer 3rd person subjective myself, because the script is incomplete without the actors and all else that goes into a tv production. In written form, it is the author's responsibility to get across everything that (for instance) Nathan does when he just "stands there" as Inara tells Mal that she's leaving.

Oh, and...yay Fish Job citation!

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

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Friday, May 26, 2006 9:21 PM

BLUEEYEDBRIGADIER

My fan fic pet peeves, huh? Well, gotta agree with the mob and say poor writing (i.e. improper spelling/grammar/punctuation) drive me batty. Hence the reason I volunteer to help out my fellow Browncoats concerning the need for beta readers. Though I find you have to be careful, especially if ya want to write something of your own, that you don't start messing with the overall message and actions

Really can't say anything else specifically....cuz really, I am willing to suspend my disbelief for almost anything if the author has made an attempt to take the 'Verse and play with in ways that are plausible but probably not possible for one Joss-based reason or another. I mean....not really into slash unless the author explains things out sufficiently on how the couple got together and why and the issues they face being a couple. And OCs can be cool...if one tries to make them at least more than a 2D Mary Sue/Marty Stu. The crew ain't perfect and anyone who was would cause major friction amongst our BDHs; letting the characters have flaws is the best idea you can have....as long as they aren't completely ruled by them;)

And concerning epics like Screw's "Kaylee's Lament" and "The Treasure of Lei Fong Wu?" Yeah...they be long and complex. I will admit up front I have sadly forgotten plot points from chapters ago. But I am still enthralled by Screw's dedication and skills. Or the "Genius" series (whose author I have sadly forgotten

)...that series is getting into the 40s. Still loving it to pieces

Really...we all have different tastes in things. We were damn lucky that Joss Whedon managed to create something like Firefly that managed to satisfy our appetites, and the series appealed to us for different reasons. I eagerly await every fanfic (at least at first) just to see what my fellow Browncoats have come up with. Yeah...some ideas are probably gonna end up failing miserably. So what? I'll be honest and polite by explaining that certain things didn't seem to work, but that the person did something wonderful by writing.

BEB

Literature has shown us some of humanity's greatest achievements; history, some of our greatest failures -- Alun Lewis

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Saturday, May 27, 2006 3:44 AM

SPACEANJL

Gonna roar on in with another rant here.

Just read another Rayne baby fic. Hate 'em. Hate 'em with a passion.

Sorry, but these tweak me into Reaver mode. I don't think River is ready to be a mother in any way, shape or form. (If she can - what kind of drugs has she got through her system?) As I've said, I just can't see Rayne fic, which is just my bad, but I also think this sitch is just a no. In fact, I'm gonna jump off this now, or I'll end up in troll country, 'cos these are Mary-Sue/white picket fence/gak issues for me...

sums it up really. Sorry. I don't like to shoot anybody's plotbunnies (though I got me a real good recipe for rabbit casserole - mebbe I'll post it...)

SpaceAnJL

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Saturday, May 27, 2006 4:23 AM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Veloxi:
My pet peeve? That it exists at all. ;) Sorry, but I hate fan-fic, it's usually a jumbled mess of shoddy ideas and bad writing mixed with egotism.

Ouch! But I must admit, I felt like you did at first. And then I got lucky and read some good ones.

I find going from the Strawberry Awards nominees gets me to some very well written ones. So well written that I've found myself accepting some crazy couples and situations.

No Malver or Rayne though. I still can't take that.

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Saturday, May 27, 2006 4:47 AM

SMARTBUTDUMBBLONDE

I have carefully read every post on this page, so I can make the next fanfic I write as good as posible.Thanks for the pointers. Right now, I'm working on a fanfic with an one main and a couple minor OCs(not gonna tell you who, because that will spoil it.) And I'm now going to work hard to make sure they won't be perfect, as it was beginning to look like the main OC might have been. Also, I'm finishing it on paper before I post it, since it would drive me mad if I'd been reading a fairly long chaptered story that suddenly stopped because the writer ran out of muse juice.

Damn you Fox!! Damn you to Hades!!

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Saturday, May 27, 2006 4:59 AM

XEYRA

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
No Malver or Rayne though. I still can't take that.

I kind of like a good Mal/River fanfic, as long as they don't ignore Inara, which is a character I very much like. I like Mal and I like River, and thought I'd love to see more non-romantic fics focusing on their relationship, I don't mind a well-written Mal/River. Some writers actually make it work.

Rayne, on the other hand, just doesn't work for me. Haven't come across a single one I could really get into, that could convert me, mostly because I don't think River would act the way some of these Rayne fanfics make her act. Jayne developing some attraction to River is hard enough since he never did like her (but who knows, maybe he appreciates someone who can kick his butt), but River? Doesn't compute.

Maybe it's our interpretations of the characters that make certain pairings possible or not in our heads. We all have different views of what the characters might or might not do. I'm glad that there is such a variety of tastes and writers in this 'Verse, because everyone can find a fanfic or ten that caters to their tastes. :)

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

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