how much would firefly cost? by Ariya

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

how much would firefly cost?

POSTED BY: ARIYA
UPDATED: Saturday, January 3, 2004 11:23
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VIEWED: 18010
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Wednesday, December 31, 2003 1:20 PM

Anyone know what the budget was per episode for Firefly? Just thinking today that every Firefly fan should contribute $10, and try and privately fund another episode. I need my fix, and soon rewatching the DVDs won't hack it anymore. There must be at least fifty thousand people world wide who really liked the show (I hope that is a low number). Can TV shows be privately financed?

Ariya

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Wednesday, December 31, 2003 1:26 PM

ZAPHODB

Just a shade over 2 million per ep.

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Wednesday, December 31, 2003 1:32 PM

ZAPHODB

And here's a little list I compiled a couple of months ago. It's good for comparison sakes.

Genre Show Budgets
Enterprise (2001)
$5,000,000 (per episode) (Season 2-7)
$3,500,000 (per episode)
$12,000,000 (pilot episode)
Star Trek TNG (1987)
$2,500,000 (per episode) (season 3-7)
$1,500,000 (per episode)
Star Trek DS9 (1993)
$4,000,000 (per episode) (Season 4-7)
$2,000,000 (per episode)
Star Trek Voyager (1995)
$3,500,000 (per episode) (Season 4-7)
$2,200,000 (Per Episode)
Stargate SG1 (1996)
$1,400,000 (per episode)
The X-Files (1993)
$1,500,000 (per episode - Canada)
$2,500,000 (per episode - US)
$66,000,000 (movie)
Space: Above and Beyond (1995)
$5,000,000 (per episode)
Star Trek TOS (1966)
$100,000 (per episode)
Babylon Five (1994)
$750,000 (per episode)
$900,000 (per episode) (Season 4-5)
Battlestar Galactica (1978)
$750,000 (per episode)
The Outer Limits (1995)
$1,100,000 (per episode, 7th season)
Buffy (1997)
$2,300,000 (per episode, 5th season)
Angel (1999)
$2,000,000 (per episode)
Firefly (2002)
$2,000,000 (per episode)
$10,000,000 (pilot episode)
Farscape (1999)
$1,500,000 (per episode)

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Wednesday, December 31, 2003 3:10 PM

JAYSEDAI

From what I understand $2 million an episode is only partially true. The actual cost of a specific episode was quite a bit less, somewhere in the range of 800k to 1.2 million, but Fox was amortizing the cost of the pilot (including set building and initial start up costs) into the individual episodes. So when people say that Firefly was canceled because it was too expensive, I don't tend to agree.

In fact, as I understand it, Fox's total investment in Firefly was about $32 million. Which works out to just over $2 million per hour of TV. Which, based in the quality, is a damn good deal if you ask me. I'd like to see a hollywood studio create a 11+ hour movie of that quality for $32 million. It would never happen!

So let's do the math. Firefly's average weekly viewership hovered around 4 million viewers. If 10% of the viewers agreed to pay $80 per season (15 episodes long) for the show to be produced direct to dvd. Shazzam! You've paid for your show.

Move the production to Canada, throw some advertisers on the DVD, and costs drop even further.

If this idea interests you, sign up for the Firefly subscriber mailing list at:

http://www.fireflymovie.com and click on direct to dvd.

Jeremy

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Thursday, January 1, 2004 7:59 AM

ARIYA

well........the obstacles of course would be the necessity of rebuilding the set, so I imagine there would be significant start-up costs. But seriously, I kind of started this as a joke, but what would stop a plan like that from working? Do you think there are at least 300,000 people out there that would shell out $100 for another season? I would pay twice that without blinking.
Can it be done? Wouldn't it be a interesting day to hand about $30 million to Joss, and say "Go to town, we need more eps!"
Anyway, probably dreaming here, but does anyone think this is even vaguely possible?

Ariya

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Thursday, January 1, 2004 8:21 AM

JAYSEDAI

I asked Joss about the idea at LA Con while he was signing an autograph for me. And his reply was "You know that might just be the future..."

Jeremy

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Thursday, January 1, 2004 8:42 AM

ARIYA

Well.....I think so too really, given how effective straight to DVD could be. So how do we do it? If there are really three or four hundred thoundsand people out there who would fork over around $100 to see another season, how would one go about organizing such an effort? It seems to me that if the people who control our media are not willing to promote truly good storytelling, then it is up to the individual to make it happen. Personally, I turned off my cable, and now I buy the shows I want on DVD anyway. So how can we rally a whole mess of people with the money and inclination?

Ariya

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Thursday, January 1, 2004 8:50 AM

LORDJ

The price comparisons were really interesting, although if price (cost/benefit) wasn't the reason Fox cancelled firefly then what do you all think it was? FF may not have cost much in comparison to other scifi series (although I think the comparisons to ST are a little off as all those series were/are produced independently of networks and are financially analagous to syndicated shows as I understand it); but I wonder how that compares to the rest of Fox's line up of poo sitcoms and double poo reality shows?

Maybe if there is enough interest created by the buzz over the DVDs to translate into a big movie perhaps that will generate enough interest for a return to the series. But if the $80 thing is the way to go I'm down :)

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Thursday, January 1, 2004 1:03 PM

GAIJIN

That would be an interesting way for TV shows to go in the future...funded by the fans.

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Thursday, January 1, 2004 1:03 PM

SLOWSMURF

Not that I think this would happen, but remember if an entire season was produced it would be no trouble to sell it in stores too afterwords for more sales.

Though in all seriousness, this won't happen, no matter how popular the show. There simply aren't enough people who would fork over that kind of cash.

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Thursday, January 1, 2004 1:21 PM

SCAFELL

"well........the obstacles of course would be the necessity of rebuilding the set, so I imagine there would be significant start-up costs"

The set that we hope to see rebuilt for the movie? At the same time as all the cast will be together again anyway? Anyone else seeing potential synergies here?

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Thursday, January 1, 2004 6:24 PM

ARIYA

well, yes indeed, synergy me please!
But seriously, I know this is more than likely a pipe-dream, but how do we make an effort, how do we go about doing something? At least then the worst was that we failed as opposed to having sat around and wondered what would have happened if....
So are there that many fans? How would one go about convincing them too fork over money?
A couple years from now I want to buy season 2 on DVD, lets make it happen.

Ariya

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Thursday, January 1, 2004 11:52 PM

CONGOCHRIS

Actually, audience funded TV isn't that far in the future... heck, it's in the past and present. PBS, anyone? Audience funded big budget TV, on the other hand, well, we'll just have to wait and see on that.

As to how to do it, maybe the best way would be to start a corporation, and sell shares to get the capital. Honestly I think if a market survey were done, you would see that youcould easily recoup the costs and even have a tidy profit strictly from DVD sales of the series. I mean, come on, the DVD set was what, 11 on amazon recently, and climbing? Perhaps even film it in complete widescreen (as opposed to the "almost-widscreen" aspect ratio the series was done in), and bring back the "serial" days where you go to a movie theatre to watch it each week instead of TV.

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Friday, January 2, 2004 6:28 AM

ZAMPANO

Quote:
Originally posted by SlowSmurf:
Though in all seriousness, this won't happen, no matter how popular the show. There simply aren't enough people who would fork over that kind of cash.

Tell that to Paramount.

They charge a hefty €99,- for a single Season of DS9 on DVD, without any commentary tracks!!!

That's $124.205.- based on todays Euro price. Absolutely insane! I can buy almost three seasons of Buffy for that!

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Friday, January 2, 2004 1:42 PM

MRGREEN

Not to mention FOX is already planning on doing a direct to dvd 8 episode 24 spin off.

This was actually pitched to Fox righ taround the time the show was canceled. www.fireflymovie.com has a little info on the guy (representing some media company) who tried to make it happen. Seems they are still willing/eager to do it as well).

So, in short, good sales of the Firefly DVD set, a movie with decent profits, and good sales of the 24 spinoff series could very well turn into a 'mini-season' of firefly direct to DVD.

Only troubles would be getting all the actors back together for extended shooting (several have new shows starting). Which is why a short 8 or so episode season would make more sense... shoot all the footage during the regular tv season's filming breaks and do the post production/small extra shots as you go.

Here's to hoping!

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Friday, January 2, 2004 2:10 PM

LDYSILVER

*delurk*

Wasn't there a movie project recently that was funded by the format of a fellow starting a corporation and then selling shares to aquire the cash to make the movie? I may be misremebering but it sounds like a viable option that is beginning to take shape in our future.

-K

*relurk*

Mal: "And Kaylee, what the hell's goin' on in the engine room? Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?"

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Friday, January 2, 2004 2:11 PM

JAYSEDAI

That media company would be mine.

And yes we are willing and eager to do this. But whether WE do it or not is secondary to it actually happening.

Very good point about the availability of actors. A shortened season would also have the benefit of costing less overall (easier to find investors beyond the subscribers), and would allow more attention to quality, as the time pressures would be less severe. HBO's/Showtime's series' are always less than the standard 22 for these very reasons.

Although I would like to see more than 8 (how about 12?), of course even one more episode would be nothing short of heaven sent.

If the movie does get greenighted, we need to jump onto the direct-to-DVD bandwagon full force. The last thing we want to have happen is for the movie to be made, and then the sets to be torn town a second time!

Jeremy

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Friday, January 2, 2004 3:12 PM

ARIYA

Hmmm, sounds cool. Whats the name of the company and the film Jeremy?
Ok, so, it really sounds to me like this strategy is a possibility. Have steps already been taken to muster fan support with some sort of petition to push the direct to DVD format? Does Fox have to sign off on it because they still own the rights? And why in the world, given that Firefly has been *increasing* in popularity since it got freakin cancelled, haven't they opted to just fund the direct to DVD episodes themselves? Surely it would be profitable...

Ariya

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Friday, January 2, 2004 4:03 PM

JAYSEDAI

All very good questions. I only have some of the answers.

First; my company is Rivetal, Inc., I'm one of the partners. We do a lot of DVD work, including promotional DVDs for several Hollywood studios; Fox (X-Men, Planet of the Apes), MGM (007, Barbershop), New Line (DVD-ROM on Freddy vs Jason) and others.

I started a push for subscribers just over one year ago, and in less than a month generated nearly 2000 names of people interested in subscribing. I handed that list over to Mutant Enemy and Fox. Mutant Enemy could see the potential, but had little power to execute on it, as Fox owns all the rights. And, at the time Fox just seemed to want to wash their hands of the whole Firefly thing. Hopefully the excellent DVDs and the movie have proven that their attitude has changed.

Since my site went up a few days ago, I've received close to 100 more names. This is a far cry from the 100,000 + subscribers that we will need, but keep in mind, I spent exactly zero dollars to get those 2000 names.

As for why Fox doesn't just do this themselves... The whole idea is completely foreign to the way they work today, and way out of their comfort zone. Not to mention, even when it works (which it will!), Fox wants to see big profits, not just something that covers costs. So as a result, they are probably more interested in focusing their attention elsewhere. Big movies, reality shows, etc.

On the other hand, I believe that with the expansion of PVRs (TiVo...etc) and the slow decline in the efficacy of advertising, they are going to have to start thinking outside their comfort zone, and take ideas like direct-to-DVD much more seriously in the future. I personally think Firefly (and 24) are the perfect vehicles with which to try it.

Even News Corp (Fox's parent company) is planning on contributing to the decline in the efficacy of TV advertising:

http://www.imdb.com/StudioBrief/2003/20031229.html
(scroll to the bottom)

A project like this is very much in our company's comfort zone. We are happy to step in and focus on all the details. All Fox needs to do is give us a green light. We will find up front investors, we'll hire Mutant Enemy to resume production, we'll build and maintain the mailing list, we'll create, replicate and distribute the DVDs. I'm certainly not saying we are the only company that can do all that, but we are ready and willing.

However, since the movie is a distinct probability, we don't want to rock the boat by pushing too hard on the direct-to-DVD thing until after the movie has been officially greenlighted.

Jeremy

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Friday, January 2, 2004 11:02 PM

ARIYA

Well, now I am really baffled. If all you say is true, Jeremy, I don't quite understand how Fox would be taking any risks. If your company found investors, handled all of the manufacturing and distribution, and the cast and crew were willing and able, then the only thing Fox would need to do is advertise Firefly a bit (heaven forbid they advertise *good* television) and snatch up their piece of the pie. Is there a complicating factor not previously mentioned? Does Fox have other costs or responsibilities that prohibit them from simply giving the go-ahead for more Firefly on direct to DVD?
I wonder if Joss is approaching the movie as a method for revitalizing the tv show, or if he plans on converting Firefly to a motion picture franchise only.
Other than buying the DVD and trying to get it carried more places, is there anything the little guy (like me) can do to promote Firefly? I still think assinating one of the Fox execs might be in order...

Ariya

P.S. Upon reflection, I think some of the exchanges between Simon and Jubal Early stand as some of the best writing in a tv show (at least for my tastes). In particular the exchange about "Alliance" and "a lion", and the arsonist midget are, IMHO, pure genius. OiS is rapidly becoming one of my faves.

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Saturday, January 3, 2004 11:23 AM

MRGREEN

Quote:
HBO's/Showtime's series' are always less than the standard 22 for these very reasons.

Although I would like to see more than 8 (how about 12?), of course even one more episode would be nothing short of heaven sent.

Yes, HBO/Showtime type series is exactly how I imagine Firefly looking. In fact, I still wonder why one of the premium channels hasn't tried to get Firefly yet. 12 episodes would be indee better than 8. I picked 8 as that was the number I heard for the 24 spinoff series, it was more or less a random number under 22

Quote:
If the movie does get greenighted, we need to jump onto the direct-to-DVD bandwagon full force. The last thing we want to have happen is for the movie to be made, and then the sets to be torn town a second time!

Oh, man, just thought about filming SEASONS of Firefly with some really nice, big budget MOVIE SETS. The sets were already excellent, but I would imagine that as they rebuild/re-assemble them for a movie there would be additions/improvements, as the budget should be a bit bigger

Quote:
Since my site went up a few days ago, I've received close to 100 more names. This is a far cry from the 100,000 + subscribers that we will need, but keep in mind, I spent exactly zero dollars to get those 2000 names.

If we emailed you our names last year, do you need us to do so again, or are you adding to your list from then?

Thanks again for all your hard work!

Rob

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