How long ' should ' a t.v. show last ? by AURaptor

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

How long ' should ' a t.v. show last ?

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 6, 2006 04:59
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VIEWED: 5131
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Saturday, June 3, 2006 10:33 AM

America loves a winner!

I know, the network weasles will tell us ..as long as it gets good ratings ! But that's not what I mean. We know all too well that some shows never get a chance ( Firefly, Wonderfalls, etc... ) and despite a very loyal, intelligent and tenacious following, they are gone far too quicly.

But clearly there are some shows which do make it for several years, and even some that stick around TOO long.

So, is 5 years the target by which most shows idealy look toward ? Is 10 yrs too much ? Those who are Buffy/Angel fans, are 7 and 5 yrs about what you'd have expected ? Too long ? What do ya think?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, June 3, 2006 10:38 AM

DOWIE100

I would say as long as there are on a creative high, i.e. not repeating themselves or dull.

Firefly would ideally have been 4-8 serie's.

"You can't take the sky from me"

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Saturday, June 3, 2006 10:42 AM

DAVESHAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
So, is 5 years the target by which most shows idealy look toward ? Is 10 yrs too much ? Those who are Buffy/Angel fans, are 7 and 5 yrs about what you'd have expected ? Too long ? What do ya think?

It depends on the show of course but 5 to 7 years seems like a good average for an otherwise quality show. After that most shows start repeating themselves.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Saturday, June 3, 2006 10:43 AM

ILLYRIAWASHBURNE

buffy, in my opinion could have ended a season earlier and i would have been happy. i loved the seventh season and i'm never going to be "happy" it's over, but i do think that buffy went a bit too long. as for angel, i don't think that was long enough. i'm really not sure that one more year would have done it for me either, so i guess it really just depends on the show. i think that 5 years is a good run, and 10 years is quite often too long, but i think as long as a show gets a closing number, it's done well enough.

so as for firefly, wonderfalls, the inside, point pleasant, and all those other shows that were cut WAY too early, it's not fair.

"I looked under twenty and found a pea and you wonder why i'm not sleeping?!?!"

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Saturday, June 3, 2006 10:54 AM

SIMONWHO

I think shows that have an arc should know when that arc is going to end and finish it properly. The X-Files went on and on and on and on and on. They should have completely finished the arc in the movie that was after season 5, even if that meant doing something totally radical like starting a global alien invasion that was seen by the public then totally reinvent the show. As it was, they drove lots of people away and ran the franchise into the ground.

The maxim is 'always leave them wanting more' but that should probably have the addendum that they should be screaming at you in the street for more.

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Saturday, June 3, 2006 11:04 AM

JOSSISAGOD

I agree with dowie100, as long as it doesn't start repeating itself, usually around five to seven seasons for a Joss Whedon caliber show.

JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

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Saturday, June 3, 2006 11:17 AM

GWENHARKER

Most shows, if I remember correctly, have a five year contract with their actors. Then when they resign, It's up to eight season. Of course, it's been awhile so I may be wrong but I remember reading some articles on it.

IMO, if it weren't for Firefly and the network split, Buffy and Angel could've kept on the high track and probably would've lasted another 'good' season. But Firefly happened and the two shows suffered so...

Depending on the content of the show, 5 seasons is a good number and could usually go on for another season.

How Charmed lasted as long as it did, I'll never know.

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Saturday, June 3, 2006 1:31 PM

GIXXER

For as long as it is good. As in imaginative, well scripted / acted / directed.

However, for anything with a Live Studio Audience, they should consider pulling the plug when they get the whooping troop of baboons effect simply because a character walks on stage.

I wouldn't call myself extraordinarily discerning, but I'd reserve my cheers for something wortwhile

www.jumptheshark.com offers opinions.

(Yes, I did look at the Firefly entry.)

Some predictable / justified love, but also the hardy perennial gripes are present and correct; too many characters / too western / not enough ray guns / moral objections to Inara.

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Saturday, June 3, 2006 1:34 PM

KANEMAN

'till they jump the shark

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Saturday, June 3, 2006 2:17 PM

REGINAROADIE

I agree that a show should only last between 5 and 7 years. I know with BUFFY that if they did end it at five with "The Gift", then they would have left on a perfect note. And while seasons 6 and 7 had their moments, you could tell that they were getting a bit long in the tooth. As per ANGEL (Still havn't seen season 5), I know people were up in arms of it ending after 5 years, but I think it was the right choice. I mean, they could have gone on for two more years like BUFFY and drove it into the ground. But apparrantly, they left on a high note that's still ringing out to this day.

As for shows that last ten years or so, yeah you do get some shows that just seem to go on and on. SEVENTH HEAVEN is the thing that pops into my mind immediately. They do the wholesome family act thing for like ten years, they say they're finished...and then they turn around and say "We're still not done yet." It's like going to a six hour play, you see them bow and do the curtain call, and then they do like a half hour sketch to entertain you when all you want to do is go to the bathroom, get a smoke, get a drink and go home.

But in some cases, there are shows that actually seem to get better as they go along. My example for this is SOUTH PARK. This and their last season (seasons 10 and 9) are IMHO, their best seasons yet. They've finally hit on the perfect formula for their episodes, and are at the top of their game. They've found that perfect blend of social and political satire, jaw dropping "Oh my God, I can't believe I'm actually seeing this" humor and truthful characterizations of their kids. And the last season of FRASIER was pretty satisfying in that you saw these characters for the last ten years and their series long arch come to an end.

So yeah, I think that 5 to 7 years should be the length of any series, but if they touch into something great, then their 9th or 10 could end up being their best seasons. I guess it's a matter of "have we explored this world and these characters long enough?" I think with a show like LOST, I think maybe they should end on a high note before they make the mythology of the show even more confusing and frustrate people to the point where they just don't give a damn and just want them to be rescued. You can only do so many flashbacks and whatever before you exhaust your avenue's of storytelling.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"There's only one "Return" ok, and it ain't "of the King", it's "of the Jedi."

"Maybe we should start calling your friend 'Padme' because he loves 'Mannequin Skywalker' so much, Right? (imitating robot) Danger...danger...my name is Anakin...my shitty acting is ruining saga."

Excerpt of internet teaser for CLERKS 2.

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Saturday, June 3, 2006 2:18 PM

LEAINA

I agree with the general number, five series, but I think the real problem is redefining the series MO as they progress. With Buffy and Angel they picked up more and more characters and more and more stories that needed to be dealt with which meant they moved away from their original episodic, stand alone nature. I know the last series of Angel moved back that way and I think it was all the better for it.

I guess the question is, at which point does it become just a soap? And thus, less likely to pick up more viewers (and all the time losing some). That's my theory, I could well be wrong.

I love Buffy, but I think it should have ended with The Gift, and Angel, although I seriously mourn its passing, I really subscribe to the theory "always leave them wanting more". I guess Firefly suceeded there. A little too much perhaps.

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Saturday, June 3, 2006 3:43 PM

CHRISMOORHEAD

Untill it's on the verge of becoming boring and redundent.
------------------------------------------
They say I am a sinner and seducer, they try to put the blame on me, but I don't give a fuck for the way they see

Stand up and you'll win, surrender and you'll lose, it's heads or tails, you have to choose.

Heads or tails, which way will you choose? Die or live, surrender or fight? Wild and free, together we'll stand, strong and proud, we will claim our right.

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Saturday, June 3, 2006 3:45 PM

SIMONB

Quote:
Originally posted by Dowie100:
I would say as long as there are on a creative high, i.e. not repeating themselves or dull.

Firefly would ideally have been 4-8 serie's.

"You can't take the sky from me"

I agree with that - as long as they are still fresh and enjoyable, and still have plenty of scope for untold stories without become dull, predictable etc then they should keep going. IMHO one such show doing just that is Stargate SG-1, which I am still loving 9 years on, and which, again IMHO, just gets better (though I know some will disagree with me on that one)

.

Most shows run for 5-7 years, something about having to pay actors more each new season until it gets to the point where the show becomes too expensive to produce - so the networks usually axe things around the end of the 7th year.

In an ideal world I would have loved to have seen 5-8 years of Firefly and then a trilogy of films...heck, even a quadrilogy (because I'm greedy like that) and because Firefly deserved so much more than what it got given. And sadly, I believe far too many great shows are now being killed before their time.

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die

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Saturday, June 3, 2006 4:14 PM

REGINAROADIE

Certainly. There's definitly a list as long as my arm of shows that deserved to last longer than they did. Not to hijack this thread, but what was one show (other than the obvious) that you wish lasted longer than it did.

For me, one recent show that truly deserved a longer life was this show that actually came out at the same time as FIREFLY called BOOMTOWN. I'm not sure if any of you guys remember this, but it was a cop show that broke the mold. It borrowed the "multiple P.O.V." idea that RASHOMON had and told each of it's episodes from various points of view. Each of the characters were incredibly complex and had like a season long arc that paid off in the end. My fave was Neal McDonough's David McNorris, who has to be without a doubt the most fucked up character ever to appear on network tv. It did have a second season, but it only consisted of nine episodes, and the multiple POV's were cut down a bit. I'm still waiting for Lionsgate to issue a Season 2 DVD just so that I have the complete series in my collection.

I think it might have also been an issue of timing. It pre-dated LOST by two years, and if it came on after LOST, I think it would have been a smash instead of a flop. Or maybe it should have gone to cable instead of network tv. Either way, I'm eager as Hell to see what Graham Yost, the creator, will come up with.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"There's only one "Return" ok, and it ain't "of the King", it's "of the Jedi."

"Maybe we should start calling your friend 'Padme' because he loves 'Mannequin Skywalker' so much, Right? (imitating robot) Danger...danger...my name is Anakin...my shitty acting is ruining saga."

Excerpt of internet teaser for CLERKS 2.

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Saturday, June 3, 2006 8:12 PM

GWENHARKER

Actually Angel got cancelled before Joss could pull it back to how it was supposed to be. They didn't decide to end it.

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 3:42 AM

CATHERA

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:

I think with a show like LOST, I think maybe they should end on a high note before they make the mythology of the show even more confusing and frustrate people to the point where they just don't give a damn and just want them to be rescued. You can only do so many flashbacks and whatever before you exhaust your avenue's of storytelling.

The creators of LOST have a five year plan. After that it's going to be how well the show is still doing.

One day.
One plan.
One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 5:23 AM

EST120

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
So, is 5 years the target by which most shows idealy look toward ? Is 10 yrs too much ? Those who are Buffy/Angel fans, are 7 and 5 yrs about what you'd have expected ? Too long ? What do ya think?

I agree with most people that 5-7 years is best but it really depends on the show.

Angel, I think, did fine with 5 seasons and I think the end was satisfying. My complaint about the end is that they writers and producers were not told early enough that they had been canceled. Thus, I felt the end of the story arc for the show got compressed into probably 2 episodes short of what it should have been. I kind of wish the network had said "We are going to cancel your show but tell us how many episodes within reason you need to wrap things up". For a show that has been on for more than a couple seasons, I think this would be a nice thing because then the show can clear up things as much as they would like. So many good shows get canceled without much warning and do not get their "farewell" season like Buffy or Alias or Friends where the writers know a full season in advance that they are not coming back (either by choice or whatever).

Angel could not have gone on much longer. The mythology was starting to break down from factors beyond the control of the writers. Angel, obviously, was starting to look 5 years older. Being an immortal, this does not help! Plus, there is only so long that the Good versus Evil battle can rage on before the stories get repetitive.

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 5:38 AM

GIXXER

Good to see "Boomtown" fans.

The guys from "Band of Brothers" were brilliant in that, and equally brilliant in "Boomtown".

I have to give a vote to Gary Basaraba.

I also liked "Homicide:Life on the Street" and the early "The Shield" when Vic wasn't a producer, meaner and less interested in going Arnie. (Big Man, in T2, you were a Terminator. What's with the not-killing-anyone stuff? Next thing you know, Vin'll be covered in dummies.) Oh wait...

As sidekicks go, Shane was a total effin' liability on a scale rivalled only by Billy Bob Thornton in "A Simple Plan."

That Captain Aceveda, though. He was always overdue a visit from Vera's Windowcleaning Contractors Inc.

Lost? Five Years?

It already feels a lot longer than that. However it's nice to see there is excellent dental care on the Island. Only the batty old woman in "The Devil's Rejects" sports a less implausible set of perfect gnashers.

(Declaring interest - I've never actually seen any of Lost, but the wall-to-wall trailers and blanket publicity mean that anyone not living in a cave can generally get what's going on.)

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 6:59 AM

DATALESS

I find it very disappionting when a good show ends after 5 seasons or less. I feel that their is something left unsaid.

In the case of Angel that show did something very cool. Having the gang go from Angel Investigations to the Hell Inc. was an amazing move and that could have been a total new series lasting 7 years all on its own.

Alias is another she that is quiting to early after 5 years, It minimalizes what these shows were.

It's impressive to own the complete series of a Series like Buffy or Stargate SG-1 (not that you can own all of it now) but looking a the Babylon 5 complete dvd set or Angel isn't nearly as cool.

There should be no limit on a series either other than the writing (that includes a Movie series. Star Wars Ep 1-3, Why was he called Vader, what a story that could have been told "arrise Lord Vader" weak, Sorry.)

If the writing fails the show is over. Show like SG-1, Seinfeld, Simpsons (thought they have lost it lately) South Park seem to have the potential to go on forever and no get stale. The writing is the key to telling you how long a show should last.

If Lost is really going to be five years I think the show is weaker for it. The creators (producers, writers) aren't able to get 2 more years out of it. It's sad because that show has been amazing so far.

7-8 years for a sucessful series.

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 8:06 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

As long as it should.

Babylon 5 was a five year deal, they were going to cancel it at four seasons so the end of season 4 was scrunched and season 5 got off to a slow start.

That's not how it should be.

Firefly died before we found out how long it could last, and Earth Final Conflict lasted a bare minimum of one season too late.

I think it's more of a, "You know it when you see it," deal than anything else. Every story has the same length: it's over when it's done, not sooner, not later.

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Monday, June 5, 2006 3:49 AM

ZZETTA13

Speaking of Firefly and I don't want to step on toes or make anyone mad here( Ok I realy don't care if I do) but I do believe FF was not ment to last by the tv exects.

I mean it was ment as a filler and would have been considered a dead show by Fox even if it had had good ratings.The only thing that would have saved FF on Fox would have been if it would have become a phenomenon after the 3rd or 4th eps. Thats it in a nutshell.

Its just my opinion but who in their right mind would think a tv series would survive with the advertising they did,then airing the show out of sequence.

You as a television viewer are considered to have poor taste or no taste.You're just one of the mass viewing public that can be fed poop on a stick ( and like it) as for as the tv powers that be are concerned.

Although we love the show and are hopeful for its return don't ever think that the higher ups would give you the time of day if there weren't a nickel in it for them.

Z

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Monday, June 5, 2006 5:31 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
So, is 5 years the target by which most shows idealy look toward ? Is 10 yrs too much ? Those who are Buffy/Angel fans, are 7 and 5 yrs about what you'd have expected ? Too long ? What do ya think?

Its always nice when shows come to a natural conclusion. Thats when the SHOULD go off the air. But some lose their creative focus, their characters, or their energy and should go off without necessarily coming to that final wrap up.

A good example is Stargate SG-1 which keeps going and going. Also the various daytime soap operas seem to have an endless supply of meaningless pulp drama. Other shows like Farscape end too soon, but have nice wrap ups in the form of life after cancelation. Some shows, like John Doe, hardly even get started.

So there is no real answer to your question. I say if its a good show and people are watching, then it should stay on until the story is done, but few have ever managed it properly, I think Babylon 5 or maybe MASH came the closest in my opinion.

H

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Monday, June 5, 2006 8:39 AM

GIXXER

ZedZed.

I'm sure the execs wanted it to succeed, and would have been plenty willing to fund it until it dropped dead of old age.

I reckon they just couldn't understand the lack of:

Phone-in audience voting;
Actual video phootage phrom Police vehicles;
Sound of rockets in space;
The Enterprise. Anywhere;
A laugh track;
Bill Cosby;
Ray guns in greater numbers than two;
Animals doing the Craziest Things;
Donald Trump still not firing his hairdresser;
The Osbournes;
Paris Hilton;
A makeover against the clock;
A big theological secret spelt out in words of half a syllable. In crayon.

So they panicked. Understandable.

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Monday, June 5, 2006 9:16 AM

MSG

hmm so really what we should be doing to ressurect the show is get Paris Hilton and say Jessica Simpson to agree to wander through and make a few painfully unintelligent comments and we should be set. Or we could vote characters on or off the show...or even better play who's gonna sleep with Inara this week and vote which crew member gets her each week...ok it's scaring me that I can keep going with this horrible idea thing

You're only young once, but you can be immature any time!

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Monday, June 5, 2006 11:38 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

It has occured to me that the real solution is to create a really lousy reality show, which will of course do great and get huge ratings and lots of money, then use the profits from that to fund Firefly.

Is Paris Hilton's soul still on the market? Does she even have one? Perhaps we could buy it, and her income along with it, and use the profits from The Simple Life something-or-other to get a season of Firefly.

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Monday, June 5, 2006 12:15 PM

CITIZEN

Two episodes before they go down hill...

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
So there is no real answer to your question. I say if its a good show and people are watching, then it should stay on until the story is done, but few have ever managed it properly, I think Babylon 5 or maybe MASH came the closest in my opinion.

Amen to that. The problem with B5 was it ended too soon, so the fourth and fifth seasons were shoehorned into one.

Then it didn't so they had to come up with a 'sixth' season that was never planned for to go out as the fifth.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
"I had a rose named after me and I was very flattered. But I was not pleased to read the description in the catalog: 'No good in a bed, but fine against a wall'." -- Eleanor Roosevelt.

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Tuesday, June 6, 2006 4:28 AM

ZZETTA13

If I recall "Gunsmoke" the tv western lasted 20 someodd years. Not that FF should have lasted that long but it should have been given a second season. Time for its core audience to find it. Then recommend it to their friends.

waiting 25 years for a sequel is just to long. Read list:

Captain Mal: Hobbling around Serenity with the help of a cane.

Zoe & Wash: in their bunk having sex at 50+ (please I'm eating)

Inara: in her shuttle having sex at 55 (please, I've stopped eating)

Jayne:in his bunk polishing "Vera" to the point where now the weapons the size of a tooth-pick.

Book: the shephards character died 3 years earlier and is stuffed and stored in the cargo bay. Arm raised as if hes waving.

Simon: a drunk that keeps cutting himself with his own med lab instruments.

Kaylee: is down to one arm. The other one got caught in the whirling engine when she was 39.

River: " I can kill you with my......I forgot what I was going to say." the old brain ceils have began to cement.

Yep if we are going to have more FF,the next 2-5 years if not NOW is better.

Z

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Tuesday, June 6, 2006 4:59 AM

DEEPGIRL187

I really think it depends on the nature of the series. Some shows are only meant to run for so long, while others are more open ended. Take Lost for example. Unless they want it to turn into Gilligan's Island, the writers will have to let them leave the island at some point. First Wave (for those of you who remember it) is another example. Since it was a given that the Gua were coming at some point, it also meant that the series would have to end once they got there (course, they could have done a better job of ending said series, but that's a different story entirely).

Sitcoms and many primetime dramas (House, CSI) are more open-ended. Not to say they should last forever (Friends, anyone?), but they're designed to be more flexible about running time.

**************************************************

"I'm going to sing the doom song! Doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, dooooooom...."

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