GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Male and Female Imponderables---Guess What? I Lost Count!

POSTED BY: TRISTAN
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 4, 2006 03:56
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Monday, July 3, 2006 3:27 AM

DEEPGIRL187


Thanks for keeping the peace, Tristan.

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"What you plan and what takes place ain't ever exactly been similar."

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Monday, July 3, 2006 3:29 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
And no, no religion of any sort should or will gain a foothold in government schools; that's what the separation of church and state is for. If you don't want such things to happen, vote against them; it's worked so far.
Anyway, you can't be only on one side of any issue. I'm sorry, but you are behaving as though there is only one right way, which is your way. I have long been of the opinion that if two sides of an issue could just meet that the solution would be far superior to what either side is suggestion by themselves. I think the idea of a blend between privatized education and public education is quite rational. Know why? Because choice is the basis of this country, and there should be a myriad of choice. That includes the choice to pay taxes for the government to do it's job and maintain facilities for education that you can then send your children to. The only thing that makes this a bad choice is if the government isn't doing its job. And whether it's doing its job depends entirely on the people in power. Who, I might remind you, are put there by a vote system. Yeah, that system also has its flaws. Nothing is going to be perfect. If independant thinkers would take one little voting lesson from the sheep and all try to vote for the same thing, then they would outnumber the organized sheep. This hasn't happened and isn't likely to, but that's not going to stop me from trying.

Is it just me, or did it get very RWED in here?

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The separation of church and state was put in the constitution to ensure that the head of the country (I.E., the king or England - was not ALSO the head of the church, i.e., the king of England) It did not mean that you could not say a prayer in school or have a religious picture in the state courthouse. It was simply a way of ensuring that we did not end up in a Theocracy. (Which someone should explain to ole GW).

I am not a believer in "organized religion" and we all know I don't like bible thumpers - I just think we should understand the reasoning behind the constitution

Other than that PR - WELL SAID!!!!

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Monday, July 3, 2006 3:33 AM

PENGUIN





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Monday, July 3, 2006 3:39 AM

FIREFROMHEAVEN


Whitefall, what a wonderful post! Not creepy at all. I'm so glad to know that you like your school!

The whole issue of "the smart kids" thing can be problematic, partly because some very smart kids get overlooked, and most people aren't smart in every subject.

Back when I was in high school (HS), I took mostly honors and AP classes, too. We had some incredible teachers, too. I can think of only one who was bad and he was scum of the earth -- an alcoholic, I believe. Lots of wonderful men and women, though. I may have to go back and thank them all again.

I didn't date in HS, either. OK, there was that one ROTC guy and that one date and he just didn't “get” me. I'm afraid that I have to report that, even though I was 15 or 16, my reaction to him wanting to kiss me was probably along the lines of what my 11 year old daughter's reaction would be to a boy wanting to kiss her. You know, some combination of “What?!” and “Ew!” I probably didn't handle it well, which is too bad because he was a nice boy.

I would say that I was socially backwards, except that I wasn't! I was just much more into organizing and running the social events. So I attended everything because I was almost always on the committee that put it together – even the prom.

When I think back on it, most of the “smart kids” that I ran with were socially backwards on the dating spectrum. We tended to try, with varying degrees of disaster and success, because it was expected. A lot of us were from military families and we were literally drilled into the whole doing what's right and expected thing. There were a few spectacular rebellions, too, of course.

But, really, given our druthers, we just liked hanging out together. We were like herds. Groups of us would get together and drive up to Pine Mountain and wander around, hike, swim, splash in streams, picnic, grill dinner. This was especially fun in the dead of winter because we'd build bonfires. I don't think I appreciated that enough at the time.

We liked to study together, too, which was very cool.

It's almost as though my friends and I had our minds so engaged with everything else in the world that all of that dating and sexual stuff developed a lot slower. There is evidence now that the brains of smart kids – paradoxically – actually develop more slowly: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12063178/
I wish I'd known that as a teen!

You just sound incredibly wonderful and beautiful and gifted, Whitefall. Try not to let teen angst create a shadow over that. You say you're healthy, well, that counts the most! It sounds like you're having fun and have friends and that's fabulous! You'll make a great catch someday.

And, if you want to date, there's actually a lot more information around now than when I was young and confused. For general purposes, I love Daniel Goleman's book on Emotional Intelligence.

But, date on your own schedule. Develop on your own schedule. You are who you are, and that's a wonderful thing.

And, PhoenixRose, I have no doubt that you are perfect. You're absolutely beautiful in your picture.


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Monday, July 3, 2006 3:43 AM

TRISTAN


Morning, DeepGirl! I tried...let's see if it works...I really hate when threads go RWE when we are doing so well.




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Monday, July 3, 2006 3:54 AM

FIREFROMHEAVEN


PIZ, you must be a Libertarian! There are others, of course, who are libertines. And we like it that way.

So, how are the men and women of Atlantis?

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Monday, July 3, 2006 4:12 AM

MSG


Morning all- Just a side note about vouchers and private schools...There are NO regulations on aprivate school. All curriculum is up to the school so if they choose not to teach math or to teach creationism only they can. Also the teachers in private schools are not required to meet any standards. They don't even have to be high school graduates. I think people see them as upper class and therefore better, but at least in my state the kids in private school have lower scores on SAT ( Standard Achievement Tests) than public school.
Also vouchers take their money directly from the public schools budget ( and one voucher is about the cost of 3-4 students public tution) and if that kid gets kicked out of the private school ( private schools can kick kids out for poor grades, misbehavior, and frequently kick kids out who have learning disabilities) the kid goes back to public school, but the voucher money stays with the private school. If they could make it tax breaks for those who choose private schools or if private schools had to meet standards I think I'd probably be more comfortable with them...I am not saying I think the public school system is fantastic, but I think vouchers are not a good way to fix it. I think having local school board control curriculum and funding, cutting number of management employees, having teachers take strandardized test and be evaluated by other teachers, students, parents, and principals, and increasing funding to education with the provision that it all goes for class supplies and teaching materials would probably be more successful:)One more side note and then I swear I will get off the soap box. 60% of private schools do not accept/serve any student with a diagnosed disability.

ANYWAY- so how was everyone's weekend? I note some of you had some serious co worker related adventures:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Monday, July 3, 2006 4:43 AM

TRISTAN


No co-worker related incidents, but a busy week of sewing. We thought we were going to have a long weekend, but it turns out we had to work today...gorram it!

I have an Imponderable that is appropriate for most of us...what are the feelings on fireworks? Most males have an inate desire to burn things and blow things up...how about the females?


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Monday, July 3, 2006 4:55 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


What do you think?

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v

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Monday, July 3, 2006 5:08 AM

DEEPGIRL187


Fire! Fire, fire, fire, fire, fire!!!!!!

Ummm, yeah. I like to burn stuff up.

Of course, I've always felt that it's within the boundaries of human nature to want to destroy things. So I wouldn't say it's a distinctly male phenomenon.

**************************************************

"What you plan and what takes place ain't ever exactly been similar."

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Monday, July 3, 2006 5:08 AM

TRISTAN


Ooh, pretties go BOOM!

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Monday, July 3, 2006 5:10 AM

DEEPGIRL187




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"What you plan and what takes place ain't ever exactly been similar."

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Monday, July 3, 2006 5:11 AM

MSG


Hey best art teacher I ever had let us do something called "fire day" round about a day or two before spring holiday he issued each of us a bok of wooden matches and glue...we got prizes for tallest, cutests, best done, etc...for making structures and then we went out onto the back cement ( with fire department in attendance) and one by one set them on fire. It was sooooo fun and I'd bet ever student remembers that...sadly now days you couldn't do that the lawsuits would destroy you:(

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Monday, July 3, 2006 5:12 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


It's not about destruction! (well, a little...)

It's PRETTY!


*edit* That would have been sooooo fun, Ms G
I detest our suit-happy society!
Oh right, no RW discussion, sorry...

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Monday, July 3, 2006 5:13 AM

FIREFROMHEAVEN


I think there's a universal human fascination (but also fear -- or maybe that should say "awe") with fire. I love it!

When my husband felt the need recently to dispose of some hazardous chemicals, he chose to burn them. It was stuff like paint thinner. He took an air gun and improvised a blowtorch. It was occasionally spectacular! Mind you, the man's an engineer and knows how to do this.

I let our daughter help him. She loved it!

Now, if only I could figure out what to do about the scorch mark on the driveway...


Oh, and Tristan. I love my job! I work with the most amazingly wonderful people. I'm a good contract specialist (translation: low level bureaucrat) and work with other highly skilled people.

The politics are occasionally problematic, so I try to steer clear.

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Monday, July 3, 2006 5:13 AM

LITTLEALBATROSS29


Morning all,


Absolutely no fireworks for me. I'm very skittish & hate the noise.Love the pretty pretty lights though.I can see the NYC Macy's display from my living room, so I get the show & no big boom. Very cool.
Bryce
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I swallowed a bug.

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Monday, July 3, 2006 5:23 AM

MSG


Fire - oh leave it there and years from now your daughter will stop and say" remember that time dad let me help make a blowtorch" it'll be a fun family memory forever! at least take a picture:)

Speaking of fireworks...does anyone else enjoy watching the crowd go ooooh aaaaah in unison? it's so cute and yet so collectively unconscious:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Monday, July 3, 2006 5:27 AM

TRISTAN


Yes, humankind love fire. Goes back to the cave days, when it was the only protection against the unknown. Of course, we have by far surpassed that by creating magnificent sky flowers that elicit "oohs" and "aahhhs" from the watchers. Not to mention the big bangs...always gotta love those!



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Monday, July 3, 2006 5:36 AM

FIREFROMHEAVEN


MSG, my support of vouchers is reluctant. I'm just not seeing other viable solutions at the moment, esp. with the Federal laws. We also have special problems here in Georgia with dishonest politicians and what have you, misusing public funds meant for education. It's a fixture of our news stories.

I always went to public schools myself. I had many wonderful teachers.

My baby is currently in a Montessori school where her diagnosed disability is a non-issue. She has the most incredible teacher (who has a Master's degree) who is not only a terrific teacher but is dyslexic herself and has two dyslexic sons. Her BS is also in Agricultural Science, so from her first career, she brings in this wonderful point of view. Her teaching of the life sciences is inspired. She plans the *best* field trips. I am envious whenever my husband gets to chaperon one of those field trips.

Your art teacher sounds amazing! You're right -- I'll bet his every student has always remembered "fire day!"

I, too, love the oohs and ahhs that a crowd makes during things like fireworks. It's like we all become children and mercifully, appropriately, forget ourselves for a short time.

Good idea on taking a picture of the scorch mark! That hadn't occurred to me. Before it fades any more, I'll need to do that.

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Monday, July 3, 2006 5:42 AM

MSG



Fire-so are you keeping the marks? cool that the husband is an engineer. My brother is just finishing up his bio mechanical engineering degree:)
Tristan darling this is getting a bit long in the tooth...perhaps a new one is in order:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Monday, July 3, 2006 5:43 AM

ODDSBODSKINS


with the crashin' and the bangin' and the flashin' and the whizzin' and *drifts off into a trance*


yeah, i'm with the whole loving fire thing, although it's not just loud explosions and spectacular fireworks (although me and most of the friends i had in high-school had a thing for them, and tended to develop quite a talent for that kinda thing. none of us had eyebrows to speak of) but also when i stayed with my parents we had an open fire, and i could happily sit and stare at that for hours, in fact i kinda wish i had one now, however environmentally unsound that is of me.


maybe if i burned peat exclusively, h'mmmm *gets to pondering*

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Monday, July 3, 2006 5:44 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER


He's back.

Used to like fireworks as a kid. Not into them too much any more. Damn PTSD flares somethin' fierce. I tend to mostly watch the crowd and drink lots of water.

Weekend: Not bad.

Glad to hear from y'all. Try to get back later. Stupid payroll is due by noon.

MAL: "What happen about me?"

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Monday, July 3, 2006 5:50 AM

PENGUIN


Here's a neat little fireworks applet that i have on my website. Just click inside the box and go oooooo and ahhhhh!

http://www.netwerkin.com/fworks/fworks.shtml


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Monday, July 3, 2006 5:51 AM

TRISTAN


Apparently, this thread is getting a bit long...or so I have been told

Give me a minute, and there will be a new one.
-EDIT-
Our new home
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=21984&m=331247#331247
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Monday, July 3, 2006 5:55 AM

FIREFROMHEAVEN


LittleAlbatross29, my daughter still has a bit of trouble with the noise from fireworks, even though she loves them. The noise used to make her cry when she was about 2 to 4 years old. It was too bad because we lived in a small city that had lovely fireworks over the river. We were only able to go once. Nowadays, we try to view fireworks from a slight distance.

MSG, so far I have managed to resist the urge to throw bleach on the scorch mark and see if that would remove it. Guess I'll just keep resisting that urge!

Oddsbodkins, staring into a fire can be nice. Especially on a cold night, snuggled up with someone.

NVGhostrider, I'm sorry to hear that PTSD hampers your enjoyment of fireworks -- among other things, I'm sure.

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Monday, July 3, 2006 6:28 AM

RUGBUG


Yeesh, you guys. I go away for a little par-taying and some weekend fun and have over 100 posts to catch up on.

MSG: Thanks for the info on vouchers. I was getting my teaching credential during the first voucher initiative in CA, many years ago. I remember some HUGE holes and not supporting it, but I couldn't remember why.

Fireworks: Thems cool! But I have a fear of losing body parts so I stay away from the actual shooting of them. I basically like to go "ooh, pretty."

I DO sort of hate fourth of july, though. See, I have the day off work, and what I like to do most on my days off is ride my horse. But with the the morons that inhabit that area around the barn shooting off fireworks, and guns all day...riding becomes VERY dangerous. Pooh on them.

Oh, and just to be part of the group, I suck at math too. But I can figure out percentages and add in my head. I just can't do algebra to save my life...but geometry is my friend. It is all rules and order. I get that.

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Monday, July 3, 2006 6:35 AM

TRISTAN


We have moved...
Our new home
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=21984&m=331247#331247


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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 3:17 AM

PIZ


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I don't support utter anarchy, if that's what you're asking. I don't support the government wholeheartedly, no, but a government is required to keep people from being at each other's throats. I think our government is messing up, but such is not always the case; we've had good administrations who made the education system better. I was lucky enough to have quite a few of my school years under such an administration, as I have heard a lot of stories recently that make my struggles in school look like a joke.
You say "would" as though it's a given, but it isn't. Nearly all private schools available right now are based in religion. Not just religion, but Abrahamic religion. That is a big problem for me, for reasons I would think are obvious.
And no, no religion of any sort should or will gain a foothold in government schools; that's what the separation of church and state is for. If you don't want such things to happen, vote against them; it's worked so far.
Anyway, you can't be only on one side of any issue. I'm sorry, but you are behaving as though there is only one right way, which is your way. I have long been of the opinion that if two sides of an issue could just meet that the solution would be far superior to what either side is suggestion by themselves. I think the idea of a blend between privatized education and public education is quite rational. Know why? Because choice is the basis of this country, and there should be a myriad of choice. That includes the choice to pay taxes for the government to do it's job and maintain facilities for education that you can then send your children to. The only thing that makes this a bad choice is if the government isn't doing its job. And whether it's doing its job depends entirely on the people in power. Who, I might remind you, are put there by a vote system. Yeah, that system also has its flaws. Nothing is going to be perfect. If independant thinkers would take one little voting lesson from the sheep and all try to vote for the same thing, then they would outnumber the organized sheep. This hasn't happened and isn't likely to, but that's not going to stop me from trying.

Is it just me, or did it get very RWED in here?

Just two comments:

1. "My" way is nothing more or less than to have everyone decide everything for themselves, and as long as no one initiates force against anyone else (including and especially the government initiating force against its own citizens, or a larger group of citizens initiating force against a smaller group via the vote), then whatever they choose is OK. Under what conceivable circumstances is that not right?

2. What's RWED?

--
"That's what government's for: get in a man's way." - Mal

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 3:34 AM

PIZ


Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Piz

You are right. I have no desire to work to pay for you - so from now on, you can not drive on any but private roads, or expect any help from the Fire and Police Departments. Make sure you don't apply for medicaid when you hit 65, never step into a National Park or Memorial, or expect any part of the Military or National Guard to protect you or your rights anywhere at anytime. Oh and God forbid you should ever have to use social services or have an attorney assigned to you.


If you live in a society, you have to help pay to keep that society. The childen are the future - I personally, would like to know that my old age will be in the hands of a qualified, well rounded young America. If the schools are nit supported and the curriculum in this country is not improved and more diverse, well one shudders to imagine.

Naturally it's not possible to jump from what we have right now to what I'm suggesting; there would have to be a transition. But after that transition roads, fire departments, health care, parks, memorials, all services ("social" or otherwise), schools, and a whole lot more would be privately run (and far better and cheaper than what we have now).

As for the police and military, those are two of the three proper functions of a government and I would gladly pay for them voluntarily. The third is the courts, for which I would also voluntarily pay.

"Society" isn't an entity over and above the individuals that comprise it, and it's certainly not "things run by the government." Society is merely a group of individuals who share geography and culture. Individuals don't owe anything to that which does not exist.

Do I expect to see this in my lifetime? No more than I expect to see any more Firefly. Doesn't mean I'll stop advocating it, though, because any step in that direction is an improvement.

--
"That's what government's for: get in a man's way." - Mal

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 3:39 AM

PENGUIN


Quote:

Originally posted by Piz:

2. What's RWED?



Real World Event Discussions

It confused me for a while, too!


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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 3:40 AM

PIZ


Quote:

Originally posted by FIREfromHEAVEN:
PIZ, you must be a Libertarian! There are others, of course, who are libertines. And we like it that way.

So, how are the men and women of Atlantis?

Not a libertarian, an independent. I disagree with a lot of libertarian thought. A libertine, though? Depends on the situation.

So you read my profile? We're fine. BTW, there's a character from Atlantis in the fanfic I'm writing. He's minor in that story, but I can see him having lots of shiny adventures of his own in time.

--
"That's what government's for: get in a man's way." - Mal

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 3:56 AM

FIREFROMHEAVEN


Sure, I read your profile and saw that it was fun and imaginative!

It's very cool that you're writing a fanfic.

You should move over to the next Imponderables thread; see Tristan's link in one of the posts above.

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