Male and Female Imponderables--Once More Into the Breach... by Tristan

Whitefall hon it's ok...speaking as a short and overly endowed woman, I don't mind a quick unavoidable glance or two..I figure if I guy had a huge nose or an extra large set of hands or something, my eye might stray to that just in the facination of the difference...it's the blatent staring/leering that's a problem. I don't really knwo any woman who objects to a quick appreciative glance.It kind of makes me smile a little and makes me feel pretty:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 7:57 AM

Dratted computer forced a double post...eeek
Sorry was checking on the baking and had to move the water and computer said it timed out so I hit post again and whammo nasty double post!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:03 AM

I doubt anyone would ever say such it to anyone's face, "btw you look like a whore", it's just a thought process that bothers me, that our society encourages women to dress on the side of scantily clad, whereas men not so much. And then men look at women and... seems everyone is a loser here: the man imo should imho feel guilty about talking to and interacting with someone who is screaming sexuality at him without noticing, and the woman is just conforming (no offense intended) to her society, wearing what feels comfortable, and just living. I dont know how to explain it better, but it seems unfair to men. (or, if said man were one of those 'all about the body' types that supposedly exist, it's REALLY unfair to women)

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:03 AM

I feel you on that one. My problem is that I love eye contact. So when a conversation gets too good, (or boring), I tend to look at whatever interests me. The lack of adequeate fabric is always distracting when a conversation gets good. Maybe that is a good thing. Idon't know. Too much thinging. Brain smoking.

MAL: "What happen about me?"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:06 AM

This is why this argument is so much of... well... an argument.

After reading the ladies' posts about this thing of clothing, it's weird, the issue i'm so disturbed by just isnt there (besides as mentioned, the staring thing) in a lot of ways. because i suppose, if the man's ok with it, and the woman's ok with it, what's the issue?

damned moral compass.

edit: after rereading MSG's last post... that glance, it freaks me out because it seems like, for lack of a better term, the man taking a pleasure in the woman completely without consent, but you just mentioned you don't mind. and that's where damned society comes in, where this is ok.

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:

Plus, too, there is how you carry yourself. I'm not sure what it is, but there is a certain sluttiness to some walks. Maybe it's just an exaggeration in the moving of the hips; I really have no idea. But I have never been mistaken for a slut, a whore, a hooker, or anything like that (not that I heard, anyway) and I can still dress to please.

Just look at a Victoria's Secret catalogue. They can make the most mundane business suit look slutty. It's all about the attitude.

But, from the flatter side of life, I feel like I don't fill out tops enough so they end up exposing more skin than they would on my well-endowed friends. Yeah, it's flat, bony chest skin, but it's still skin nonetheless. I have a hard time find bras for V-necks because my lack of boobage means the V goes down to my bellybutton and even the skimpiest bra shows. (and really, I'm not THAT small. Perfect, IMO.

Stretchy jeans are the bomb-diggety. I will never wear non-stretch again.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:13 AM

I dress fairly sexily outside of school...my bemoaning of the outfit choices is mainly related to the fact that I work with mostly teenage boys and I'd like clothes that are stylish and attractive( and in style) and still not distracting/revealing because I definitely can't wear fishnets, short skirts, and clingy tops round my students without embarrassing them and me and setting myself up for charges of sexually inapropriate conduct with students or something:) but as for the guys looking when we are dressed sexy...stop feeling bad damnit why do you think we are wearing them??? so you'll look and appreciate and make us feel sexy!!!
EDIT- I mean do you really think I'd wear the incredibly uncomfortable undergarments required to look good in those outfits for my own enjoyment??

Also yes I love love love stretchy jean ( Old Navy is the best)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:14 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by Whitefall:
I doubt anyone would ever say such it to anyone's face, "btw you look like a whore"

Oh yes, yes they would. I remember being in a lunch line at school and this girl in front of me was wearing a little too much makeup; she wasn't that scantily clad, but a little heavy on the makeup, and this guy came up to her and said "You look like a $10 whore." She really didn't, IMO, but he straight up just said that to her. It really made me angry, actually. Poor girl cried half that makeup off.
And hey, just for the record, I don't mind when guys wear tight clothes, either. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your body. The only people who shouldn't wear tight clothing are the morbidly obese. I will say again, sexuality is part of being human; everyone screams sexuality because they are human. Nothing to feel guilty about.
Although I have to say, those girls who like to show off the fact that they're wearing a thong are a bit much. Does anyone actually think thongs are sexy? I sure don't.

**********************************

**********************************

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:14 AM

Rugbug, bellybuttons are good, too!

Again, I am sorry for today. We are at work, nothing is going on here, and my mind is sixteen shades of not focusing on work...

______________________________________

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:17 AM

I think women want to be appreciated in so many ways. Men are still primative and are easily distracted.

I smell food.

MAL: "What happen about me?"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:19 AM

Now, that, MSG, is... well, touche.

But actually, i should mention that maybe what bugs me is that i'm still in high school, some of my best friends were freshmen this year, that makes them.... 14..... and they are wonderful people, but especially the freshmen it creeps me out to be dealing with this sexuality issue.

Imho, breasts are a part of the woman's body just like any other, just like the male equivalent, and should not be given the sort of reverence or importance they are. A little story: this fellow student of mine, also in theater she who is a bit uptight and never wears anything any more exposing than a tshirt, we were in the same play the months after i first met her, and not until her character was insulted for being flat chested and everyone laughed, that i realized she is rather well endowed (possibly even on the side of back pain, dunno), and i'd never really noticed. and i'm proud of that.

So, MSG, maybe your issue with your students is exactly what i'm dealing with, and i cant really relate to the actually adult ideals of sexuality.

Edit, i'm afraid i'm so longwinded i miss the conversation when i reply to stuff. And yes, i can tell you, living in a teenage male body, men are easily distracted, and i dont have to like it.

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:20 AM

NV- when we spend an hour getting ready you bet we do:)LOL
as for the food...it maight be the banana bread I just baked, or the chicken I am roasting...or maybe the treasure house bread... was in a baking mood ( the cooking I do daily)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:21 AM

DAYVE

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
....Men are still primative and are easily distracted.

is it monday? must be fish sticks again....!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:24 AM

Ooh, even better! I get to have catfish and hushpuppies tonight! BSCPantherFan is coming to town and we are going to Top O The River...

Sorry, were we discussing something else?

Not distractible at all!

______________________________________

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:28 AM

ODDSBODSKINS

so, Whitefall, is it that you feel the act of looking at a woman with sex on the brain is in some way degrading to them, objectifying them and downright morally squiffy, or is it that you feel the disparity between how men and women are treated by society, and the expectations upon them, is the moral issue?

if it's the first i can sympathise, because i used to feel the same way (and thought i must be dreadfully sensitive to do so). but, like someone said, your sexuality is something you grow into, and it takes time to feel comfortable with it ^^ i definately have to say i don't feel that it's degrading to recognise that you find a woman sexually attractive, and as a man, i feel extremely flattered if i ever find myself subject to an appreciative glance at any part of me (althought it happens less, i've gotten lazy and lost my previously toned ass see?

) but everyone is going to feel differantly in this kind of issue, depending on what kind of influence your libido has on your nature.

if it's the second, well i agree whole-heartedly with the principle, society very definately differentiates between men and women (although this could be taken to be societies reaction to men and women having differances, there are ways in which i believe it to be unjustified). Thing is, as regards differant expectations regarding clothing and what's 'on display' i'm not sure i'd agree. the obvious example would be to ask yourself exactly why a topless man is considered so much less offensive then a topless woman, frequently to the point of legislature and law (and certainly to the point of film censorship, er, sorry, classification, boards). i think there is a trend towards revealing clothing for women (although i have to say someone who can strike the right balance between display and imagination is always going to be more attractive. that balance, however, is more 'in the eye of the beholder' then anywhere else). but then, it's not hard if you're a bloke to find a pair of jeans that hug your arse as tight as you could like, or a t-shirt that contours you exactly.

damn, got to cut this short and dash (hope it provided food for thought rather then alod of waffle to skim-read and skip through

) as my bus is a-calling. would draw a conclusion but i'm not sure there's much of a one to draw, 'i humbly beg to differ' maybe, but i'm not sure how well it fits, well, damnit, time to dash.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:28 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by Whitefall:
breasts are a part of the woman's body just like any other, just like the male equivalent, and should not be given the sort of reverence or importance they are.

I have to disagree on that. Boobs should be revered! Where do you think your first year of meals came from?

Ah, well, in terms of professional and school-acceptable clothing, I do not know. Not sure with your chest size if the higher-cut but clingier tops would work for you. Hmmmm....
And yes, we do not wear the uncompfortable undergarments just to please ourselves, we do it so we look pleasing, which can in turn please us if it's noticed. But "noticed" I don't mean gawked at, leered at, or even taken as any kind of invitation. Just smiled at, really. I like to be smiled at and given that "Hey, you're a woman!" look.

*edit* Well said, Oddsbodkins! A little confusing at points, but mostly well said.

**********************************

**********************************

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:31 AM

PR- here here well said..yeah it's hard to find clothes for school that don't make me look like Mother Hubbard, but also don't cause problems ( flashback to day I foolishly wore short black skirt and tightish red v neck sweater ,as I had a party later, which cause near riot level problems with my students)So I stick to button up shirts, trousers, and turtleneck sweaters, but it's a bit boring to say the least!

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:32 AM

I'll be thinkin' about you Browncoats, Tristan, eatin' catfish just a few hours across the way!

Sigh, I'll probably be having leftovers. But my Mama came and cooked for me yesterday, so they're the world's best leftovers!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:36 AM

FireFromHeaven, you are more than welcome to join us. Seriously, the more the merrier! If you need directions, let me know.

My verdict is still kinda out on the clothing issue...thinking about it, though.
Best way to sum up my thoughts ends up being sort of vague, but here goes: dress comfortably and befitting of the situation you will find yourself in. If you have it, flaunt it, but don't be surprised if you do get attention. No, I don't mean come-ons, etc, but you will get attention.

______________________________________

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:37 AM

Tristan ...yeah well I'm making herb crusted chicken casserole with broccoli, rice and hollandaise in a paremesan crust and homemade bread so nyah nyah!! ( sigh it's just not the same as having a nice catfish fry, but I'll just sulk quietly over here in the desert wasteland)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:39 AM

to odd's question, basically i'm talking about both issues.

the "looking at a woman with sex on the brain" thing... well, it's a problem for me because, well, i don't know how much women do it (i really dont understand the atractiveness of males. were i female, i'd probably swing the other way.) but me assuming that they usually dont, i think men should walk up to women and look em in the face, in the mind, in the part of the body that makes them a unique and beautiful human being.

as for the issue of society, that too, maybe i'm alone in this but it disturbs, partially in what i've read here, how much women enjoy this attention that, as a man-person i dont think is really right. but actually, i'm not sure my issue is with adult society, more with teens, like if your child was wearing lowcut stuff at ten, would you be freaked out how young our society values sex? well, my issue with... well, everyone in high school, is that they are each one underage, they cant and really shouldnt take a relationship too seriously, so why do they seem to start dare-i-call-it the process. (ok, this might have something to do with my dislike of dating, but meh)

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:42 AM

MSG,

....herb crusted chicken casserole with broccoli, rice and hollandaise in a paremesan crust and homemade bread....
Would you, by any chance, need another husband?

______________________________________

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:45 AM

Whitefall, I truly hope you never lose that respect of females. Wow. I know you are young, but wow, you have a great view of females there. It would be nice if the society of your age group shared these views.

______________________________________

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:46 AM

Tristan, you don't know how much I wish I could join you!

On the whole clothing thing, I agree with your general statement, but nice clothing that fits well can be really hard to find! I hate shopping for clothing -- some years are better (or worse) than others, depending on what's "in style."

Who are they designing/making this stuff for? Because it isn't real women!

Then, there's having an 11 year old daughter. I don't want her to look like Britney, and she doesn't want that, either. But, she doesn't want to look like a little girl in pinafores, either. So, the love/hate relationship with clothing starts early.

The days when she wants to go around being a tomboy are the easiest, really -- except for the unkempt thing. I don't even say a word when she just sticks all that hair up in a baseball cap and lets it hang out in a ponytail through the back.

I don't want to fight with her about appearance at all. Although once in a while I can't help saying things like, "Sweetie, we do own brushes, you know?"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:47 AM

LOL- wait until I actually make something decent before you go nuts.I love to cook! Sneak peek of this week's menu:
today- Herb crusted chicken casserole
Tues- pan seared scallops in garlic cream over homemade fettuchini
Wed-Blue cheese stuffed burgers with pan roasted thyme crusted french fries
Thurs-Tilapia in breadcrums pan baked with zuchinni in dill sour cream sauce
I can actually do way better, but this week actually looks pretty good:)
EDIT- Fire you sound like my mom. SHe really wanted the pinafore child, but got the tomboy..giggle. She's past it though. Sadly I still usually have my hair in a pony tail:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:48 AM

at Tristan

Now you see why i like Mr. Whedon. I'm proud to say i was something of a feminist before i knew joss was, and i'm damned proud (if not a bit creepified about how much we have in common) to support a guy who so well fits my beliefs. Also, i did a history project on the second wave feminst movement as an excuse to read The Feminine Mystique. well... half of it. still thinking on finishing the other bit lol.

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:49 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I agree with you, whitefall, that younger people shouldn't be too into sex. I know they think about it (hey, hasn't been that long, ya know) but it should be a process. I started thinking about it when I was 14. I had my first kiss when I was 16. I started dressing to be noticed when I was 17. I dated a little more seriously then, too. I had my first semi-sexual encounter at 17. I didn't have sex until I was 19. This was a good progression, I think. I had time to adjust to all of it.
Kids think that having sex will make you mature, but really you should be mature to have sex. I have seen many young ladies have it before they were actually ready for it, and it has completely messed them up. Not quite to the extent that being actually asaulted would and has, but still. I am in total aggreement with Fire up there that sex and the soul are intwined, and subjecting the soul to something it isn't ready for is going to lead to problems. However, when it is ready for it, it's a celebration, a deep connection, and an all-around beautiful thing.
And yes, women do look at men that way as well. Some more than others, some in different ways, but we find men sexually attractive in much the same way they find us sexually attractive. As someone who can work from both ends of that spectrum, I'm just gonna have to ask you to trust me on that. As I said, it should not be all that's looked at; I wouldn't hop into bed with someone I found physically attractive, I have to actually find them as a person attractive and trust them first. But it's not ignored. It's impossible to ignore and shouldn't be at all. It should just be one thing among many that's taken into account. If you're going to be with someone, you need all forms of chemistry; spiritual, emotional, social, and sexual. There is balance to be had.
But most people do not pace themselves like me and don't view things the way I do. Such is life, sadly.
But if I had a daugher, I would raise her more the way I was raised, and I don't think she'd jump into things before she was ready.

**********************************

**********************************

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:50 AM

FFH, that's part of why I dread having children...especially a daughter. I would end up in jail so many times over, it wouldn't be funny. "You looking at my daughter?!? She's 12, you pervert!" Know what I mean? Or, the flip side; dressing them in burlap sacks until they are old enough to move out of the house...

______________________________________

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:52 AM

MSG...seriously, do you need another husband? Maybe a gardner or something? Ooh, an older version of a poolboy? I could be all of those if you wanted!

______________________________________

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:56 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Hell, I just wish I was close enough to be invited to dinner every once in awhile. That all sound DE-lish!
Now I'm all hungry and should already be in bed.

**********************************

**********************************

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 8:58 AM

LOL- Tristan hey the more the merrier:) I throw parties at the drop of a hat:) I do much better food for parties than just regular cooking... as for the little girls thing...It's been fun to watch our friends James and Kristie ( original wild children in high school smoked pot, Kristie wore very sexy clothes etc)with their 12 year old. She tried to buy leather pants and got grounded!! They get crazy if she even talks about boys.... I will pass on your burlap idea:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 9:03 AM

Wow... i dunno what to say anymore, lol. My argument sorta dried up when we established that its mostly a problem with my age grp thing. Well... that ended well...

so what do we talk about now?

Actually, bah i gotta run. gotta be at a rehearsal in 3 hours, and gotta get all set then probably walk there. :-\ whatever, tone my legs or whatnot.

See you folks in... about 8 hours! i hope i wont have to read too much!

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 9:03 AM

Tristan, I *love* being a parent. And DH is the world's best Dad for a little girl. No sexist expectations at all; it's a beautiful thing.

Children are whole people in their own right -- with their own opinions and stubbornness and everything. I don't think I could get away with burlap sacks with a shotgun!

My daughter does dress appropriately -- well, except sometimes for that unkempt thing. But, she's a kid. I keep telling myself that I'll miss that when she's in the bathroom for an hour, fussing with her hair etc.

If you're ready to be a parent, it's a transcendent experience. There is no stronger love. It doesn't overshadow being in love with an SO, but it's just as compelling.

MSG, I have sympathy for your Mom because I was a pinafore girl! My gosh, was I feminine -- way up into adulthood.

I have no such expectations of my child. When her favorite pants have a hole in them, I don't argue, I sew the hole closed. She has one pair of pants that got darned so many times that I thought it was ready for the trash. Dear daughter wailed, "No! Those are special -- they have to go in the baby box!" So, into the memory box they went.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 9:09 AM

Bah, i know i'm gone but first....

Here's a ponder, after this thread i cant help but want to get past these damned teenage contrivances and get on with the real thing, ya know, adult relationships, the whole mutual respecting thing, teenage years are just damned awkward.

You know how they say life is short? well... not atm it doesnt feel like it. Weird, huh?

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 9:11 AM

Fire- that's great. My mom was pretty good about that and now I am all sorts of girly ( combined with all sorts of tomboy) I had a favorite sweater like that. I can still remember it. Cream coloured cotton irish fishermans sweater. Wore that thing til the sleeves fell off:)
Hey that's a good topic. Does anyone else have great memories of a piece of clothing that made them feel grown up, pretty, or just made them happy??
EDIT- good luck at rehersal Whitefall..and I know it doesn't seem short now. If won't start to seem short til you pass 21 and then it flies like a tornado:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 9:19 AM

Don't know what happend.

MAL: "What happen about me?"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 9:20 AM

Um- NV you feeling ok? HUGS

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 9:31 AM

All this talk about food and clothes and kids. Like I said, I have no clue what happened. I am suddenly laughing at my desk and everyone is looking.

MSG, who cooks like that? Your guy must be pretty great if he gets to eat so well.

MSG is great! I want one of those.

MAL: "What happen about me?"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 9:33 AM

Lol i leave to take shower and it's so quiet all of a sudden! Dont have to take off for another half an hour yet, i figure in two hours i can walk anywhere. So what is there still to ponder?

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 9:34 AM

MSG: I think I want to marry you, too.

Mabye you could box some of that up and send it to CA? I don't cook. Not because I can't, but b/c it's just me, I have no time and I HATE doing dishes. Dinner tonight will probably be peas. Or some lima beans.

Whitefall, I understand where you are coming from and have been there myself. There is a distinction to make between finding someone sexually attractive and objectifying them. Possibly the difference between wanting to take someone out on a date and get to know who they are as opposed to taking them out so you can get in their pants.

But don't listen to me as I really don't know anything. I'm a pretty asexual person until I get to know someone. I don't make it easy on the opposite sex b/c gosh darn it, you better want to get to know me for me and not because you think I'm cute, which let's face it, is often the initial attractive quality. I need to get this straightened out, because I think it's holding me back. And in this small town with limited numbers of men anyway, I'm limiting it even further. It's almost like I test them to make sure they are interested enough to stick with me without the physical and then, and only then, do they get to see the sexual side. Not many men perservere....

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 9:35 AM

I think he's kind of used to it by now. We've been married 10 year. My mom's a cordon blue level cook so I spent my childhood in the kitchen learning to deglaze and blanche, etc.. Like I said you're all welcome any time you pass through Salt Lake and I'll do something a lot better than the usual stuff I make ( see above post of menu) Cooking makes me feel cheerful and productive so it's what I use after a long day with the kidlets..I'm sure you have something you do to decompress:)
So is everything ok? Not trying to be nosy I just worried about you a lot this weekend:)

EDIT- OMG rugbug that is awful...peas for dinner. That is not a dinner. Here is an easy recipe and only one dish to wash. Take a cup of uncooked rice and pour into baking dish. Put in 1 1/2 c broth. Then put 3-4 chicken breasts on. then fresh or frozen spinach over that.Then a large can of italian canned chopped tomatos..bake 350 degrees for 1 hour. Take it out and sprinkle favorite cheese over and put back in for about 10-15 min till cheese bubbles...voila all food groups, a few days worth of leftovers, and only one dish dirty..plus no real prep time or fuss:)
I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 9:36 AM

I think girly plus tomboy is the best, most versatile combination! Of course, this coming from a woman who once said to her boyfriend (now husband), "Hon, on this thing of camping out all the time? I think roughing it is a hotel without room service!"

I had all kinds of wonderful clothing! My mother used to sew most of my clothes. I got so spoiled by that! I actually made a memory quilt with bits of leftover fabric. It's currently at Mom's house.

Of course, my favorite is probably the (appropriate) shorts with the long flowy vest, which looked almost like a dress. This was in HS; mini skirts not allowed in those days. The VP started to say something about my dress being too short, and I got to say, "But, I'm not wearing a dress, sir!" and flap open the vest and show him! I walked off, leaving him befuddled. But, I didn't get sent home!

My mother was (and is) a genius!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 9:37 AM

Lol Rugbug, you wont get an argument from me. Hold yourself hostage for all you're worth!

Yeah, you may have hit the nail there, seems like to many relationships (keep in mind i dont actually know of many/any real ones) start with physical attraction and end in disaster.

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 9:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Whitefall:
Yeah, you may have hit the nail there, seems like to many relationships (keep in mind i dont actually know of many/any real ones) start with physical attraction and end in disaster.

Oh, but I think the best relationships start with physical attraction, they just don't end there. A relationship based solely on the physical isn't going to make it for the long haul. That attraction is VERY important. Otherwise you're just friends.

Tomboy/Girly girl: Hrmmm, I've almost always been a tomboy. Even now I detest wearing high heels. Now, I LOVE the look of them, but can't stand the pain. I will not suffer (too much) to fit an image. IMO, being too girly can shut you out of a lot of really fun and interesting experiences in life.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 9:50 AM

"Otherwise you're just friends."

Huh, in my romanticized ideal of romance, it should be based on friendship before it can effectively become anything else. Dare i quote a buffy writer (might have been joss) as anya in saying: "I'm married to my best friend: yah!"

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 9:50 AM

Teenagers and young adults are hard-wired to feel like they're going to live forever. Don't have a link handy off the top of my head with one of the articles on this subject, but if you want one, I'll find one.

You feel that way until somewhere in the vicinity of 25 or 30. Apparently, having young humans be risk-takers had evolutionary value. Now, it gets them killed for driving too fast while young and stuff like that.

So, you feeling that life is not short? Completely normal.

For you, life is not short: it's all still ahead of you.

Don't get in too much of a hurry! Appreciate where you are *right now*.

Really, truly, one day you're going to look back with nostalgia on times that feel awkward now. You're going to savor those memories of theater and friends and learning about yourself and the world.

Those good moments are gold in the bedrock of our existence as time deposits layers of silt in an unexpected pattern.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 9:53 AM

Touche. In all honesty, as much as i'm looking forward to getting out of home n high school, i'm just as much worried about losing the friends i have now. I don't understand this custom that you should lose the friends you make in high school in that rediculous age old adage "You'll make new friends!". I really do understand how much i'll miss this theater-ish experience, just cant seem do much about it.

Damned life and its confusing bits.

Edit: ok, really out the door this time folks, as the operative sayeth "I may have a long way to travel..." so, cya folks in 8 hours. (You're all still awesome, btw.)

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 10:02 AM

I'm with you, there. It was hard for me that everyone scattered off to different colleges. I am still in touch with some of my buddies from that time, though. I even live reasonably close to my best girlfriend from HS.

But, a whole new life does open up. In some ways quickly; in some ways slowly.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 10:19 AM