Male and Female Imponderables--Once More Into the Breach... by Tristan

NV-Hey if you looked back on your life as you entered old age...how sad would it be if you had no regrets, no leaped before you looked moments, and no love affairs gone wrong...it would mean you hadn't lived at all:)
And as I am sleeping with my best friend now:) I shouldn't vote:)

Rugbug...you know it's not one side or the other girly v. tomboy ( despite the many people who give me a hard time for being both)I can explain clipping and TKO's, police my brass after a day on the shooting range, and still wear strappy sandals and get manicures...go for it. Be both or one or the other or whatever you want...sorry for the soapbox moment. I guess I'm still irritated at the woman who during my spa day yeasterday remarked ( because I asked for the scores on world cup and was talking about it with the masseur)" oh I guess somebody gave you a gift certificate who didn't know you well...I asked why and she said" well obviously you're not the kind of girl who goes to spas."
HEY- am so, I just also like sports, shooting, and violent action movies.Wow long post...sorry ignore that all:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Monday, July 3, 2006 11:04 AM

I have to admit to a very noteable anniversary this year. In less than a week is the tenth year since my first drink. Since the middle of June will be the tenth year since my only serious relationship. May will have been the tenth year without my Firebird.
Ten years.
Any notable anniversaries for anybody?

ADD: I think I wasted alot of my ultra courageous, leap before looking, do or die trying moments a long time ago. I rarely get the smallest adrenaline rush over the biggest things anymore. I can't stand it. Chances are that is the reason for Ms. Questionable. Never had a need to be courageous. Felt like being myself was enough. Kinda fell short.

MAL: "What happen about me?"

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Monday, July 3, 2006 11:18 AM

RUGBUG

MSG: Oh, I know that it doesn't have to be one or the other. I do believe a woman who can be both is enjoying the best of both worlds. Your spa incident has me laughing. I actually have a gift cert for a spa that was given to me when I turned 30 (almost 5 years ago) that I've never used. Not because I don't like the pampering, but b/c I've just never gone before. Mani/pedi is a waste with my lifestyle. I really should use that one of these days.

For me, sense of self doesn't really fall into girly/tomboy, but I just have to be comfortable with the image I am portraying. I can be all sex kitteny some days (or more likely evenings...days is all about black slacks and conservative tops) and frilly peasant tops and ruffle-y skirts the next and then jeans and a t. Even on my most tomboyish days, I still LOOK like a girl. My signature is actually jeans with a super feminine top.

Shoes are problematic for me, though. Like I said earlier: I just can't do uncomfortable. I don't get the point. So sneakers rule the feet most of the time. And with my height, and my penchant for meeting men my height or shorter, the new strappy wedges make me look like a giant...although I prefer the term statuesque.

NV: Yesterday is the 3rd year anniversary of buying my horse. I know, I know...more horse stuff. But really, it is the third year anniversary of making one of my biggest dreams come true.

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Monday, July 3, 2006 11:21 AM

TRISTAN

NVG, I understand what you mean. Used to think I was "enough"...turns out that is not always true. I am slowly getting into the mindset of "the hell with it, I am happy with myself"...I highly suggest trying it out. Makes life so much less stressful. Not suggesting giving up, just a change of "technique" when dealing with certain things.

Anniversaries this year...2nd anniversary for marriage, 6th anniversary for divorce, 19 years from my first cigarette, and the happy one...one more day and I will have been on this board for three months! Seems like I have been here all my life, and it's only three months...

______________________________________

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Monday, July 3, 2006 11:21 AM

Hey NV you didn't fall short. SHE DID! It does sound like you're sort of hiding your light under a bushel though. Might want to take the lid off and let some other ladies have a chance;) And you know what, you don't have to take a leap to take a chance...just go home a different way, rent a movie you never thought you'd like...Ask a woman out!!! ( ok was that not subtle??)
As for notable anniversaries..Just had my 10th wedding anniversary and my birthday( July 28th) will be my 32nd anniversary of breathing...or not depending on my allergies/asthma:)Oh and the first year of being back to me without the extra weight:)And I guess it'll be( well next year on the 28th of July)the first year of having a Firefly tattoo:)
EDIT- oh and rugbug..grin you sexy horsewoman you. Yeah made me laugh too..you should get a nice long massage not the mani pedi..it'll feel great after a long ride:) I often forget that most women still have nerve tissue in their feet ( mine's long since destroyed with dancing) so I forget heels hurt others:)
I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Monday, July 3, 2006 11:50 AM

RUGBUG- I understand about the whole horse thing. Though my pony is a brown 72 Ranchero. Alot of people don't understand my reasons for loving such a manly, ugly car. I don't fully understand myself. Its been through four engines, two transmissions, several accidents, and two short lived relationships. Basically alot of crap. It has its own being, alot like your horse. Still haven't given up on it and it still hasn't given up on me. Thats just good medicine.

TRISTAN and MSG- I really hate looking back. I was really starting to like myself. All things happen for a reason, I am aware of why most of the time. But my jaw has been tightly clenched for the last two weeks and I can't tell if I am trying to keep my mad face on or if I am holding back tears. I have plenty of help and support so why am I still doubting myself. It ain't any different from before. I just don't have my stupid sister and her less than desireable boyfriend around to gum up the works. Honestly it comes down to me hating being right about things. My mind has always had some subconcious workings of possible scenario's, (my answer to ESP). Many of the things I see are horrible and I hate them. But those before me always said it is better to see than not to. It is better to know than not to. And it is better to be ready than not to.

Should try to get some stuff done. Stupid work.

MAL: "What happen about me?"

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Monday, July 3, 2006 11:57 AM

HUGS and more HUGS NV...love you sweety just hang in there. There's always good with bad ok. SO just hold on and I still say posting ms. Questionable on a site for those with emotional frigidity would be fun:)
EDIT- I am also less than fond of watching the inevitable train wreck..SIGH, but hey once the wreck hits, you can start cleaning up and fixing the track:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Monday, July 3, 2006 12:03 PM

SERYN

Garh! long day, I was up at five thirty am and i've been humping priceless works of art around all day (I love my job I shouldn't be doing cause Ihad to take holidays off from my normal job to do it!) and i got all the way to the end of the last htread and click on this one and theres a gazillion more!

Well, i'm going to catch up on what i've read so far, and then catch up the rest anothers time. I may never. If some one could summarise for me I'd love them forecevr.

Fireworks! Ooooohh! pretty! I have a confession to make... my last experience of firworks was at a new years eve party. I was sat on a fence in a sparkly top and totally inapropriate shoes for a night walk through grass, glass of champagne (first and last time i ever got drunk on champagne) in one hand and a

in the other. And with the guy sat next to me (grrr, i shall moan about him in a minute) we were giving a very loud commentary (Are you sure you know how to work a match? You're crap, get off the pitch! Yey! we have fire! RUN! ok, everybody! 1,2,3, 'ooooooooh...' can we get an 'aaaaaaahh...') I think the word is 'decadent'

But drug addled as i was, i appreciated bangs and noises much much more.
Everyother time i've been stood there, thinking, 'oh yes, its very pretty, but why does it have to be so darn noisy?'
there was a point to this but i've lost it...

As for destruction fire and what not - i'm a firm believer that its the best catalyst for change and development there everwas (apart from dissatisfaction) so its (mostly) all good to me.

um, movies. I'm lucky enough that i don't have to please anyone but myself in my choice of movies music and tv.
Well, tv i don't get to watch half of what I want because my family are unyeilding and ignorant. No, thats harsh, they resist things for no good reason even though they've loved everything i've managed to make them watch. But we also have the 5 year old tyrant, so i've seen all her favorite movies upwards of 20 times each, and don't get to watch what I want until my sister has gone away and taken her with her.
I love movies from most - my favorite is Amelie, but thats one of a very few romances I like, I'm mostly into wierd quirky stuff - Terry gilliam movies etc, some horror and SF and fantasy.

New question.

Bloody guys!

That guy i was talking about. I wouldn't have minded this if we were teens, but he was 26 fer crissakes - he approached me at this party, singled me out, chatted me up, very flattering. We sat yelling our way through the fireworks, laughing like idiots and having a great time, significant looks and that strange voice thing that men do when they're interested, I was in a fair way to being seduced. And then as soon as we get back to the house, I turn round and he's gone.
Then he turns up hours later at the kitchen sink, looking decidedly green, and i get pushed in to 'comfort' him (I can't stand sick drunks, i just can't do bodily functions, so the 'comfort' was a couple of 'are you all rights? and a hand on the back of his neck)(from a full arm length away).

Do I look like a mum? did he infact not actually fancy me, but was just securing a friend to nurse him through the icky bit at the end of the party? AAAAAAARGH! men!

ok, i did not mean to start ranting, but fun memories come with confusion I suppose.

Its late, 5 30 am again tomorrow!

See ya!

Your robot reminds me of you. You tell it to turn it stops. You tell it to stop it turns. You ask it to take out the garbage it watches reruns of Firefly.
http://www.myspace.com/seryndippyt

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Monday, July 3, 2006 12:18 PM

Seryn- I'll try and send you a summary:) I bet he fancied you, got nervous, tried to compensate with alcohol, and ended up making an ass of himself in front of the very girl he was trying to impress. I'd bet he still tells the story of the time he got stupid drunk and scared off the girl he liked as a cautionary tale:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Monday, July 3, 2006 12:25 PM

I have to admit to doing that at least twice. Well, once. The second time was to keep from sleeping with another close female friend a while back. Damn I have issues. And how can intercourse possibly be called sleeping together? Ain't that dumb. I've slept with alot of women that I never had sex with. Can that be interchanged with bedding someone down? (Thinks) Guess not.

MAL: "What happen about me?"

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Monday, July 3, 2006 12:32 PM

ok question...why would you try to stop yourself from sleeping with someone. Presumably she was interested...so what she was married??? Confused.
Not sure why they call it sleeping together except for it's a more polite euphemism than say boinking, horizantal rhumba,jungle love, beast with two backs, poking, humping, oh I could go on and on LOL
Hey ok everyone try to think of every euphemism for sex you can and let's see how many we can get:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Monday, July 3, 2006 12:39 PM

PENGUIN

knockin' boots

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Monday, July 3, 2006 12:46 PM

The girl was my friend from freshman year in High School. I really wanted to try makin' bacon (one for your list) with her for a long time. After a while I didn't really see her in the same way. I thought she was very physically appealing, but she'd been into drugs on and off and the guys she was dorking (yet another for the list) were real dirtbags. Really messed with my head. Haven't been camping with anyone since.
(Sarcastically) I am such a nice guy.
Think I would like to give up the nice guy act and get laid.
Who am I kidding. I am a nice guy.
I am so unscrewed.
Literally!
Crap!

MAL: "What happen about me?"

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Monday, July 3, 2006 12:49 PM

JAMESTHEDARK

On Porn: No guilt, but then again I don't go for 'abuse porn'. It's always best when the woman involved at least seems like she's having fun.

On Fashion: Button down shirts in plain colors, and basic pants. I'm not flashy, but that's just the way I roll. I lead an uninteresting life.

On Objectification: I don't objectify women I know, simply because I know them. It's hard to objectify friends, especially. The only friend I had in high school was female, and she was a gift. So no, I'm not in the practice of veiwing ladies as sex-objects.

On Anniversaries: 21 years, six months since I last smoke, 21 years, 5 months since I last drank, and 21 years since I was born. As I have mentioned, I lead an extremely uninteresting life.

Now, on a different track, there's a question that's been bugging me for a few years now: Ladies, why do you consistently return to men who mistreat or even abuse you? I've seen a lot of relationships go straight to hell over this, and it bugs me every damn time the cycle repeats itself.

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I ain't lookin' for help from on high. That's a damn long wait for a train don't come.

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Monday, July 3, 2006 1:06 PM

Its a pattern. Chances are a person will end a relationship and basically end up with the same girl/guy all over again. Those who've been abused establish a pattern and look for that sense of pain, drama, or excitement all over again. Paterns. We are creatures of habit. At least I know for sure I am. I hate the sure thing. Always need a challenge. Like to know I worked for the reward. Part of the reason for my most recent follies.

Oh well. Can't win them all. Just need one. One is enough for me.

Gotta go. Big bosses let everyone out at 3:00 PM and we never got the fax (right along with Law Enforcement and Social Services as usual). See Y'all in a day or two. Happy Birthday America. Be safe. Love to all the BROWNCOATS.

MAL: "What happen about me?"

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Monday, July 3, 2006 2:28 PM

Wow bad experience James? HUGS I think it's because women sometimes confuses familiar with love...they keep waiting for the guy to turn back to the charming Dr. Jeckyll they met at first ( when abusers tend to be charming and loving) not realizing the evil Mr. Hyde is the true guy and the charming Dr. Jeckyll is the fake. They keep thinking if they do better/are better he will go back...foolish and sad, but somewhat human nature..
NV- HUGS sweety and good guys always get what they deserve eventually...so I hope you're prepared for the gorgeous Amazon who will tear your clothes off:) The world has so few good guys it always gives us hope to know there's one out there:)
Bailing for the night so I shall see you all tomorrow:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Monday, July 3, 2006 4:45 PM

At last, i have returned to our humble abode. Anything new to ponder? Or anything old, of course?

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

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Monday, July 3, 2006 4:59 PM

There's always *something* to ponder!

How was rehearsal?

Things are a little quiet on the board. I had to go off to do real life stuff for a while, too, and am just checking in before bed time. I think I'm on the opposite coast from you, so you'll undoubtedly be up later than I will.

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Monday, July 3, 2006 6:11 PM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by RugBug:
MSG: I think I want to marry you, too. Mabye you could box some of that up and send it to CA? I don't cook. Not because I can't, but b/c it's just me, I have no time and I HATE doing dishes. Dinner tonight will probably be peas. Or some lima beans.

Whitefall, I understand where you are coming from and have been there myself. There is a distinction to make between finding someone sexually attractive and objectifying them. Possibly the difference between wanting to take someone out on a date and get to know who they are as opposed to taking them out so you can get in their pants.

But don't listen to me as I really don't know anything. I'm a pretty asexual person until I get to know someone. I don't make it easy on the opposite sex b/c gosh darn it, you better want to get to know me for me and not because you think I'm cute, which let's face it, is often the initial attractive quality. I need to get this straightened out, because I think it's holding me back. And in this small town with limited numbers of men anyway, I'm limiting it even further. It's almost like I test them to make sure they are interested enough to stick with me without the physical and then, and only then, do they get to see the sexual side. Not many men perservere....

Heh, I do that a bit, too. I won't let anyone into my pants if that's all they're after, which is possibly why I was a virgin until very late teens, whereas many of my friends just kinda went with it the first time there was mutual desire. I might be even worse than you because I might be looked at as a bit of a tease; I'm not asexual. I like to kiss and cuddle, I like it a lot. And yeah, a lot of interest starts at physical, but it's only a problem if it also ends there. I remember having that problem a few times; I wanted to deck a couple guys. But I don't have a problem with becoming friends with someone I'm attracted to.
I feel like I'm repeating myself.
Anyway. Clothing. Not sure about that. I didn't wear skirts until I was well into adolescence; up until then I hated them. I had a favorite pair of jeans that I insited on turning into cutoffs and wore until they didn't fit me anymore. Once I stopped growing, I was able to hold on to many of my clothes. I try to take good care of them.
Hey, I have very comfy shoes that also look nice. It took some hunting, but the shoe makers seem to have figured out that women might want some nice shoes that don't kill their feet.
No real anniverseries on my horizon. I feel dull.

James, I would never go back to a man who had been nasty in any way to me. Don't know if you haven't caught me talking about the Ex of Doom who recently got back in "touch" with me (i.e. he wrote me an e-mail) that I made up my mind to ignore? And he wasn't even that bad. He never struck me, rarely raised his voice at all... But he still hurt me. That's not kosher. I would not get back with him. Don't generalize.
As for women who do, they obviously have low self-esteem and think that they either deserve it or can't do any better. And often they hope it will be different if they try again, and false hope is very powerful. I even had that hope myself before I sat myself down for a good talking to.
MsG said it quite well. Mr Hyde will always come out.
GAH! I wanna get out of the house! I love you all but I wanna get out of the house bad. Curse my crazy schedule!

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Monday, July 3, 2006 6:15 PM

Oops, i was replying then i decided it twas time to get my bike up n running. Just had great news, my friend, who has always been into DnD just found out about the Serenity RPG ("Why didnt you tell me about it?!", it hadnt occured to me) and now, i'm planning a biking expedition to buy the book (i have some money tucked away for a worthy cuase like this, but i wasnt gonna buy the book if i'd never ever use it), and we planned a mighty RPG-ing session in a week or two. Whee!

As for rehearsal, twas good, this be a student run show, so it's inspiring as well as poorly organized. Still, our choreographer is making some interesting choices for preliminary choreography, has a lot of lining up (a taboo in her opinion) and a bunch of indicating, but it fits the show, really. I got to crack a few firefly jokes, our choreographer has seen Serenity and loved it, only managed a few eps of firefly tho till she decided to give em back, but still, i got to make a "I swallowed a bug" joke when a bug got caught in her script. Fun. :)

Ok, this was offtopic, um.... let's keep the pondering up!

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

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Monday, July 3, 2006 8:25 PM

/cry the thread is so quite! Seems like only yesterday (mostly because it was) that we all posted into the wee hours!

Come, we must think of new things to ponder, gorramit!

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 12:22 AM

EMMARIGBY

Oh dear, I have gone way over my budgeted time for relaxing with FFF.net. I'll have to get back to work and I was only 3/4 of the way down this thread.

I'll chip in with a couple of issues raised.

Movies: I think it's good when partners/ friends have different tastes in films as it introduces you to good movies you may not have chosen to watch. I'm quite lazy and probably choose trashy and superficial films like Charlie's Angels and Mr and Mrs Smith because they are pleasing to the eye (I call them junk food for the brain!). If I'm encouraged to watch something a little deeper I usually really enjoy it (for example I watched Hero with friends recently and loved it!)

Clothes/ body image: I agree that many clothes fall either into the category of slutty or sexless. The latter is especially true for the larger sizes. I was appalled when I last ventured into a shop that specialised in size 16 and over. I couldn't find anything fitted at all. It was all shapeless bags that just hung off you. I may not be a size 12 any more but I have all the right inny outy bits (they just go in and out a bit more than some) and I don't particularly want something that looks like a maternity smock! As has been pointed out to me by an amused friend, I actually have very slutty taste in clothes (I do like the look of leather, PVC, fishnet, tight Lycra etc) but I also know what looks horrible on me so am forced to squash those impulses and go for smart and tailored instead. If I ever managed to slim down to a size 10 I'd probably want to show off all the hard work!

Damn, must go now. I'll try to catch up later!

___________________

Hissssssssss!

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 1:02 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
I like to be smiled at and given that "Hey, you're a woman!" look.

Nicely put

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 2:37 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I find that a good chain belt can fix a lot of problems with the shapeless clothes.
Yeah, that's all I have to say. I was napping and am not all back yet.

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 5:12 AM

PIZ

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
I think women want to be appreciated in so many ways.

Indeed, and ought to be.

Quote:
Men are still primative and are easily distracted.

Not all of us.

--
"That's what government's for: get in a man's way." - Mal

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 5:23 AM

PIZ

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
MSG, who cooks like that? Your guy must be pretty great if he gets to eat so well.

Ain't it the truth!

Now, in my house I do nearly all the cooking (that was also true while I was still married), and I'm more than capable of making things like MSG does. I never get much chance, though, because Son 1 is almost never home (works weird hours and hangs out all other hours with his friends) and Son 2 is the World's Pickiest Eater. I miss real food!

Quote:
I want one of those.

LOL! That's what I kept saying about Saffron the first time I saw Our Mrs. Reynolds, right up until Mal passed out.

Then I realized she's exactly like my ex.

--
"That's what government's for: get in a man's way." - Mal

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 6:09 AM

PIZ

My all-time favorite movies (in order): The Thomas Crown Affair (1999), The Lord of the Rings (whole trilogy as one work), Chocolat, Chariots of Fire, Ocean's 11 (2001), Animal House, The Sting, Bull Durham. Some other favs (in no particular order): A Fish Called Wanda, The Incredibles, The Matrix, Singing in the Rain, The In-Laws (1979), For Your Eyes Only, A Clockwork Orange, Lilo & Stitch, The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly, L.A. Story, Master & Commander, Laws of Attraction, Ghostbusters. That's not to mention Serenity, of course, though I think of it and Firefly as one thing, and it doesn't fit my mental category of "a movie."

Like others here, I experience no guilt about erotica. Some things are just sick, though, (such as anything involving animals or children). As to the nature of the form, as someone else said I don't feel guilty if doing something was a bad choice for someone else, whatever their own issues might be. As long as they volunteered for the job, I don't concern myself with it.

Body Image: I don't like my body the way it is, but I don't care what anyone else thinks it "ought" to be. As for women, I don't have a "type" but I know what I like when I see it, and it depends entirely on the individual woman. I've found thin women, heavy women, and all kinds of in-between women attractive. Beyond initial attraction (that which catches the eye), there has to be a lot more for things to progress beyond a date or three: intelligence, honesty, independence, honesty, humor, and honesty, among other things (can you tell I've been bitten in the honesty department?

). I've also known women I didn't find attractive at first and changed my mind after I'd known them for a while.

--
"That's what government's for: get in a man's way." - Mal

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 6:44 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Oh Piz, you are not the only one!
Can anyone honestly (heh) say they haven't been bitten in the honesty dept?

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 8:34 AM

I think i can say that... annoying maybe, honesty not so much.

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 9:49 AM

ODDSBODSKINS

h'mmm, vaguely guiltily suspect i've bitten in the honesty department as well as being bitten (not that i'm a bad person, just cack-handed at dealing with people sometimes) so i've got to confess to feeling vague twinge's of guilt reading the last few comments here

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 11:15 AM

SERYN

Quote:
Originally posted by StillFlyin:
I'm into war movies and sci-fi, but Ive never found a girl who liked them, are there any out there?

yup!

I hated Apocalypse Now. but that may have been because it was required viewing for uni. But I loved? enjoyed? (not apropriate adjectives really are they?) appreciated Full Metal Jacket, and stuff like Buffalo Soldiers, Jarhead, Three Kings, hell, even liked Memphis Belle. Got really excited when I heard they were developing Catch 22, but then heard nothing since, Grrrr.

I have to be in a certain mood, they ain't the kinds of movies i weatch to relax.

Looking at my dvd collection, I lean towards fantasy more (I can see twelve monkeys, edward scissorhands, the company of wolves. Sci fi itend towards things like Fifth element, Serenity, Aliens and tv stuff like Farscape. With horror i'm very patriotic - dog soldiers, 28 days later, shawn of the dead. I've no issue with gore but do get bored if its the be all and end all of the movie, I can see what eli roth is trying to do, but i'm not bothered about watching it. Then theres the 'gritty ralism stuff' rules of attraction, american psycho, quills etc. the rest of it is all quirky wierd stuff that could fit a multitude of genres. The only out and out romances i own are Amelie and Gardenstate, and my ever growing collection of Austen adaps.

Now if only there were men out there with stamina enough for all six our of Pride & Predjudice.

Your robot reminds me of you. You tell it to turn it stops. You tell it to stop it turns. You ask it to take out the garbage it watches reruns of Firefly.
http://www.myspace.com/seryndippyt

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 11:39 AM

Hmm... well i've sat through (and rather enjoyed) the emma thompson remake of sense & sensibility. Also i have read the book of and really enjoyed the play of pride n prejudice.... so.... well... i still dunno if it'd make it through 6 hours of it lol.

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 11:44 AM

SERYN

Quote:
Originally posted by Whitefall:
i did a history project on the second wave feminst movement as an excuse to read The Feminine Mystique. well... half of it. still thinking on finishing the other bit lol.

Gaaarrgh! bleedin germain Greer! hate the hippocritical old cow.

Clothes - the reason every one is finding it so hard to find clothes tha fit well is that most manufacturers are still making clothes to standard sizes (and usually standard sizes taken 50 years ago) no-body is going to get perfectly fitted clothing unless its made or fitted specifically for them, which is what i'd be doing if i had the income.

In support of fashion designers - some, like vivienne westwood issey myaki and bend di lisi are brilliant at making stunning works of art that could concievably be worn by any woman. So you leave them alone!

The problem lies with the others, often gay designers, who i'm convinced are subconciously designing clothes for pre pubescent boys. so uber skinny and devoid of hips or tits or you haven't go a hope in hell.

And one of them in particular, Karl Largerfeld, can be strung up and slapped six ways till sunday. odious little creep. Turd of a pipsqueek moron. He designed a capsule collection for a high street chain a few seasons ago, and refused to have his clothes made in any thing above a size fourteen. If he'd had his own way, it would probably have stopped at 10. (american size 6?) creepifying scumbag, and to look at him, his terrible fake tan, the plastic shades, the bad 80's hair and the collar! oh my god the collar! would you want to wear anything that he designed?

But I could sing Vivs praises all day long. She designs for boobs, and hips, and even tummys and backsides. she designs wearable art for actual women. And she's bonkers!

My own style is fairly boring. I need to start making my own clothes, but i can never seem to make them work for me. If icould buy what iwant, my style would be very theatrical - lots of period shapes, rich colours, unusual fabrics. and it would all be highly structured. alot based around corsetry and the underwear - the problem with modern fashions is no -one knows how to really dress up - in the past the finished effect was considered from the very first layer, shape would be perfected by the underwear and the outer clothes were just the icing on the cake - nowadays we expect to throw on a bra and knickers and feel 'right' in the clothes, and its not going to happen. So womens lib yey! women looking crap? sorry, unavoidable side effect.

By the way, that is where this obsession with the perfect body has come from - old style underwear is strictly fetishised now, no self respecting modern woman would wear it! it would go against the last thrity years of womens right campaining! so instead every woman is killing herself either trying to get the corseted figure through starvation and punishment (sorry, diet and exercise) or mentally punishing herself for a failure for not having or even trying for it.

That aint healthy, and it certainly aint liberated.

Porn - people are ****ed in the head, adult movies are just another place they can go to be like that, and as someone said, its better than drugs etc.
Saying that, I can't watch it, i find myself admiring the drapes. I like sex in movies like I like songs in movies. someone humming to themselves, or wayne and garth singing along to Queen in the car - great! Some on leans against a wagon whell, grins like a t*** throws out an arm and serenades the sparrows (who really don't want to hear it) - toe curlingly embarrasing.
It has to be natural. And there is not a singly thing even remotely natural or real about adult movies.

Whitefall! It admirable that you think of women in terms of their brains - it what i'd love a lot of men my age to start bleedin doing. But you also have to start thinking of women interms of brains attatched to bodies. I.e as creatures who want to be admired and love ALL OVER. Same way as you can't disregard the mind and go for the hot body, you can't disregard the body entirly.

I hate to say it, but if that girl you were so proud not ot have noticed had known that, she probably would have been mortified.

Though, saying all that. I'd love to know how all these opinions change once your sex drive kicks in.

oh boy.

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 12:35 PM

ODDSBODSKINS

Quote:
Originally posted by seryn:
Though, saying all that. I'd love to know how all these opinions change once your sex drive kicks in.

oh boy.

and there i thought i'd monopolised cynicism

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 2:26 PM

Ok, i got a question, considering what i've said before about my issues being intrinsically related to my age group and all... then seryn mentioned my sex drive... well gorramit now i'm a little confused.

As one of those damned teenage males, i was under the impression that i had a sex drive and i try to ignore it. so, assuming that aint true, is there a difference between the crude sexual desires developed in puberty and having a "sex drive"?

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 2:43 PM

KANEMAN

I am usually attracted to small petite women. But, I think the actress that plays Starbuck on Battlestar Galactica is gorgeous...no-one else I know agrees....Movies? Straight to the horror section.

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 2:51 PM

You know, I don't think there is. I think you develop that essential impulse during puberty. As you get into serious relationships and have more experience, it becomes more focused. You learn a lot over time. You also go through life where you are more focused on one thing or another. You direct your energies.

We (older, no longer "young adult") adults sometimes find the truth of this stuff a little scary, I think. Teenagers have a full range of emotions. In fact, I think teen emotions tend to be very intense, part of it is biological and part of it is a factor of range of experience. When you're young, it can be hard to have context.

However, at any age, making good and responsible choices for ourselves counts!

I have a 20 year old nephew who is very busy being a college student, but slow to get into a lot of social stuff. Unfortunately, for him, he is living with my parents -- his *grandparents*!

My (69 year old) Mom was telling me recently that he has a girlfriend and they're planning a trip to Florida. She was being just a little odd in the telling. I looked at her and said, "At 20, he *should* have a girlfriend, and they should be doing things like taking trips to Florida together!"

I then emailed my nephew and told him that I said so. My parents are wonderful people but they are products of their generations (Dad's 81) and their experience and, to this day, tend to be repressed and repressive. I told my nephew to not let that stop him from having a life. He can still be respectful and grateful to them without giving up his essential self.

Of course, being old enough to be his Mom, I had to throw in a few lecture words, too -- safe sex, that kind of stuff.

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 4:53 PM

JAMESTHEDARK

I agree that Katee Sackoff bears a certain unexplainable magnetism, especially because as the show progresses, you get to see more and more facets of her character and can start to think of her as a human being, and not just the angry chick in the Viper.
Personally, though, I'd prefer the lady who plays Anastasia Dualla. Not only is she petite, but she's got a kind face. And the black thing's an exoticness I'd never turn down.
Just so you know, I know the full character names of most of the people on that show. Don't know how that happened, but all of a sudden Gaeta became Felix and the Chief became Galen Tyrell.

I suppose it's just as well I dodged my sexual peak entirely. I wasn't ready then, and truth be told, I'm probably still not ready for it now. That, and I'm not anchored to some unpleasant existence by any premature offspring...
There's an interesting story. A few weeks ago, I was eating a burger when I noticed a high-school classmate. She's pretty much everything I found attractive, tiny, natural blonde, freckles. And in the three years since I last saw her, she appearantly had a baby. Talk about sobering.
I would never want to be locked to this island. PEI is a great place to visit, but there's no way anybody can reasonably create a life for oneself here, and it would be even more impossible to support a family. This is the poorest province in the nation, bears the lowest minimum and average wage in the nation, and almost every job enjoys a 10 to 25% pay increase by taking twenty minutes and jumping over to New Brunswick. Seeing her trapped on the island like that... Well, it made me glad I don't have to deal with that niao se at the moment. I want to have children, but not here, and not until I can provide at least a modicum of a future for them.

And that's my rant for the night.

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I ain't lookin' for help from on high. That's a damn long wait for a train don't come.

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 5:25 PM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I'm gonna jump in with kudos for those who are taking their time with their sex life, but also a few facts about birth control.
I do not want children either at this time. But that was not gonna stop me from loving someone. I still don't have kids. That's basically the end of my argument.
Now, maybe that's not fair. As James said it was a poor area, maybe birth control isn't that readily available. It should be, especially in poor places. It should be handed out like frickin' candy. But that would require governments to start thinking logically.
I'm sorry, I'm in a pissy mood because I'm at work and don't get any fireworks. What else were we talkin' about?
Oh, sex drive and hormones. Hormones are different from actual sex drive, I think. And I'm not sure, Whitefall, that your hormones have all kicked in yet if you honestly aren't noticing the female form at all. If they have, I'm a little worried about you because that level of repression cannot be healthy. Anyway, sex drive come when you're older; supposedly men peak in their twenties and women peak in their thirties, which is a long way from being a teen.
Blah. Back to work for me.

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 7:23 PM

If it's repression that could be bad. It isn't necessarily repression, though.

People develop all kinds of traits on different schedules.

I'm definitely *not* for repression. I *am* for being responsible and in touch with yourself, in all kinds of ways. Which you are, too. You developed serious relationships on a slightly later track than your peers, and, really that's a good thing. It worked for you.

Just giving into pressure, even if it's societal pressure, is not a good thing.

So, Whitefall, since you seem to feel OK about where you're at, no need to worry.

And all of this relationship stuff? As wonderful as it is, it's hard. It can be complicated. Not to be taken too lightly. Despite all of the pain and effort and confusion, we keep doing it because, well, when it's going right, it really is wonderful.

PR, sorry you're at work and feeling like you're missing stuff! Other people missed stuff, too.

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 10:38 PM

Yeah, i'm probably all right in the department all things considered. edit: PRose, i notice, that's whole problem. I notice and i'd prefer not to cause it's just seems like a distraction from the person behind the body when we're still all underage both legally and mentally. See earlier post about the 'getting into sex/clothing earlier' thing. But now i think i'm sorta repeating myself. /shrug

Lol, what do we talk about now? seems i really kept the topic going

must be more to ponder! have we bridged the gendre barrier in a mere X,000 forum posts?

...give me something to debate so we can have an argument! it's so engaging!

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 10:59 PM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Sorry mate, arguments are more for the RWED forum; this sector, we play nice. For the most part. Heh. We like discussion, though. I prefer discussion to argument myself.

"Yes, I would like to buy an argument."
...
Got off track there.

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Wednesday, July 5, 2006 2:41 AM

TRISTAN

Morning, all!
Yes, I would prefer that this thread steer clear of RWE-ism. We can still debate without turning it mean...
That said, hope all the Americans had a great 4th of July!

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Wednesday, July 5, 2006 3:55 AM

Morning all:) Seryn right with you on Viv Westwood...I think as she is a woman, she has bothered to realize we actually might have actual body parts:)
Anyway, yesterday was busy, but fun. I hope everyone had a good day:)
oooh hey Serenity got a mention on our local newscast today. The movie reporter was talking about summer movies and said that with Supermand and x-3 people should just stay home and rent a good movie and then he said he'd reccomend the underwatched, but fatastic action movie Serenity... Yea!!!
So I have a ponderable... My husband and I have a list of 5 actor/celebrities each that if that celeb made the moves on us, we could take them up on it with spousal permission ( the main fun in this is you know it would never happen, but making the list is fun) so does anyone else have such a list?

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Wednesday, July 5, 2006 4:01 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I had a list like that with a previous boyfriend of long ago. It was mostly rock stars. He was fine and all upbeat about it until he actually went to a concert with me and realized I was really, really lusting after this singer.
Don't think it was because of that, but we didn't last very long.

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Wednesday, July 5, 2006 4:05 AM

TRISTAN

Morning, MSG!
The wife and I sort of have that kind of list...I am not sure of her choices off-hand, but it's fun to have that kind of thing. Makes watching some movies that much more entertaining!

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Wednesday, July 5, 2006 4:06 AM

PR- well he is obviously just a picklepuss spoilsport and should be bapped roundly.
Ok there are tons of thoughts sort of zinging aournd in my head, but I am so tired, they aren't connecting nor explicable. If I lapse into incoherence...someone slap me:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Wednesday, July 5, 2006 4:06 AM