The Onion reviews Firefly by williamx

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

The Onion reviews Firefly

POSTED BY: WILLIAMX
UPDATED: Friday, January 16, 2004 04:53
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 6761
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Tuesday, January 13, 2004 4:35 PM

WILLIAMX

http://www.theonionavclub.com/4002/video.html

Pretty balanced. A bit harsh. Good review.

All glory is fleeting

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Tuesday, January 13, 2004 4:56 PM

SEVENPERCENT

Now see, you had to go and post something good like this, which only serves to make me mad at Fox again- You guys have got to stop doing this to me-

- I can only take so much-

He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

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Tuesday, January 13, 2004 6:11 PM

FFYING2

Thanks for posting the link. Overall, it's a great review. People have different opinions, but I have to quibble with the reviewer about one thing.

Quote:
the characters' universal habit of lapsing into Chinese in order to spout lengthy, colorful, untranslated curses becomes irritating.

The reviewer may have found it irritating, but it's not merely "in order to" curse. Even being generous with what you consider a curse (e.g. Run-tse duh Fwo-tzoo..., "Merciful buddha..."), less than 60% of the Chinese in the show is cursing, even if you include repeated expressions.

They're just trying to give the flavor of a blending of cultures in this Sino-American Alliance--with probably a little "let's get this past the network censors," too.

It's not like any of the Chinese was crucial to understanding what was going on. And you could guess what a lot of it meant anyway.

Ying
Firefly Funsite http://fireflyfunsite.home.att.net
Firefly Chinese Pinyinary http://fireflychinese.home.att.net

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Tuesday, January 13, 2004 8:29 PM

HUMBLE

I like the fact that they use Chinese in the future mixed in with English. I mean, you'd expect some sort of evolution of spoken language 500 years into the future. Most futuristic scifi shows don't even bother to address this aspect. Kudos to Joss and Co. for using something I found cool from Bladerunner.

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Tuesday, January 13, 2004 10:04 PM

HKCAVALIER

Yeah, that crack about Inara's status irks me (that her extremely high status as a companion seems like a facile inversion of societal norms).

What irks me most about it is actually one of my only gripes about the show: namely, there is no reason to leave so much unexplained about the nature of 26th century companions. Clearly they owe a great deal to the gaisha of Earth-that-was, but gaisha are never even mentioned in the show, while every third word to describe Inara is "whore." Granted the back-woods conservative whites amongst whom we spend nearly all our time, would think like that, but I know Joss has much more to say on the subject than he did. It's a gaping hole without the excuse of being some fascinating mystery to be savored. Every review I've read of the DVD uses words like "high-class prostitute" and "space hooker," and I, in part, have to lay the responsibility for the misconception and disrespect on Joss & Co. for not giving us more info.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Tuesday, January 13, 2004 10:10 PM

TALONPEST

Ah, but they do mention gaisha- In Trash, when Inara accuses Mal to trying to keep her from working, she points out that they'd smuggled a cargo gaisha dolls. Just an annoying nit-pick... it's what I do.

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Tuesday, January 13, 2004 10:35 PM

SOUPCATCHER

It was actually Inara's status that made me sit up and take notice of the show. When The Train Job first aired I remember thinking to myself, "That is so cool that the only legitimate businessperson on board is basically a prostitute." Of course, the ending of that episode with Crow also had a good deal to do with me getting hooked.

That comment about Inara's character by the Onion reviewer also rubbed me the wrong way. Highly respected courtesans or geishas are a lot more recent to our history than 500 years so it makes sense that the pendulum could swing back the other way just as quickly.

I was also interested to learn, in Heart of Gold, that there was a religious element to the Companions. I can't remember the exact quote but the head of the whorehouse told Mal that Inara could've been house priestess if she stuck around. Maybe it was just the terminology but it reminded me of temple prositution, of which we have a long tradition going back thousands of years.

I SHAVED OFF MY BEARD FOR YOU, DEVIL WOMAN!

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Tuesday, January 13, 2004 11:27 PM

HKCAVALIER

I know I read somewhere in an interview with Joss that he wanted to get at that whole "temple prostitute" thing in Firefly (sorry I can't remember where). What's most interesting to me about that is that we specifically don't have a "long tradition going back thousands of years." The so-called "temple prostitutes" of prepatriarchal societies remain a pretty shadowy institution from the dawn of history. Much studious misinformation and very little reliable sorces--very fertile ground for speculative fiction though.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:56 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

I always considered Inara to be more like tha Hetaera of ancient Greece. Wikipedia describes them as "...courtesans, that is to say, sophisticated prostitutes and companions."
Full definition at: http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetaera

One of Robert Heinlein's characters in "Time Enough For Love" was a famous hetaera in a future society.

Keep the Shiny side up

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Wednesday, January 14, 2004 4:55 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

The Onion review is a very positive review, and that is the most important thing. Right? Sure the critic nit picks a few personal gripes, but hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I think that all of the positive reviews the DVD set is getting is gorram fantastic. The more good words that are put out there about Firefly the more fence sitters who haven't made the decision to buy it will be influenced to pick it up. With reviews like this one, more people will be convinced to give the show a shot.

I don't agree w/ any of the gripes this reviewer had, but I am sure not going to fuss when the review is a good one.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Wednesday, January 14, 2004 5:04 AM

TULIP

FYI, traditional japanese geishas did not have sex with the patrons. The were exceptional entertainers (played musical instruments, read/made up poetry).

But I agree, their is definitely a strong social heirerchy that is not being explained. I figure this is because the show was short lived and unable to flesh out all these details (damn you fox!!).

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Wednesday, January 14, 2004 5:39 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave

8-O They called Serenity "rickety." Better not let Kaylee hear 'em say it!

Otherwise, pretty darn decent review. Wonder if anyone at the unmentionable alleged network is paying attention to all of this positive reveiw goodness?

Firefly Artwork Series
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Wednesday, January 14, 2004 5:45 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:
:-O They called Serenity "rickety." Better not let Kaylee hear 'em say it!

Otherwise, pretty darn decent review. Wonder if anyone at the unmentionable alleged network is paying attention to all of this positive reveiw goodness?

Doubt it. Seems Fox is satisfied w/ racking in the cash from the DVD sets, but selling the rights to Universal says to me they don't want anything more to do w/ Firefly.

Reckon that suits me fine, since I would rather see the show on any network but Fox. Why should they make any more money than necessary off of a show they didn't give half a chance to make it?

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Wednesday, January 14, 2004 6:16 AM

JASONZZZ

Frankly, the particular bit upsets me. The whole chinese dialogue thing is, well, supposed to be a blend of "chinese"/westerner thing. The Geisha deal is "japanese". Hello, last time I checked, that's a big insult to both the Chinese and the Japanese people. It might have been better if it's a bigger blend of everything Asian. Throw in some Korean, Philipino, Thai, Vietnam, and the eighteen different states of India, why don't we.

If it was deliberate, then I don't see any other theme or explanation within the show that supports it. If it was just a dumb "white-boy never left the farm from the backwoods" mistake, then that's just plain complete stupidity for anyone writing Scifi. Either, inexcusable.

Haken needs a new development system. Donate.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=5&t=3283

Quote:
Originally posted by tulip:
FYI, traditional japanese geishas did not have sex with the patrons. The were exceptional entertainers (played musical instruments, read/made up poetry).

But I agree, their is definitely a strong social heirerchy that is not being explained. I figure this is because the show was short lived and unable to flesh out all these details (damn you fox!!).

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Wednesday, January 14, 2004 11:49 AM

TULIP

I agree, maybe it should be more of a blend of all asian, but again, I give a little slack as they didn't have time to really flesh things out. Someone mentioned Bladerunner, there it was a mish mash as you described. That would have been better. But when you compare to the typical crap on tv, I'll take those small mistakes any day.

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Wednesday, January 14, 2004 12:14 PM

CAITLYN

In a future where the government is a merger of two former superpowers who spoke English and Chinese, the switching back and forth makes sense. Y'all remember what the Alliance flag looks like, right?

The reveiew was mostly positive, but I think the mixed cliches work well. A matter of taste, I suppose...

Oh well... any review that gets people curious enough to watch the DVD is worth something I guess.

"They say the snow on the roof was too heavy.
They say the ceiling will cave in. His brains
are in terrible danger."

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Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:24 PM

PBGAINES

"Sometimes, the results are simply twice as clichéd" (Onion review)

That's a very insightful criticism. Firefly plays with a lot of peri-formulaic stuff, and there always seems to be a risk that the above quote could be true. I am reminded of the superb killing of Crow, a scene that is just half a beat away from corny.

BTA,

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Wednesday, January 14, 2004 4:28 PM

EARLY

Quote:
Frankly, the particular bit upsets me. The whole chinese dialogue thing is, well, supposed to be a blend of "chinese"/westerner thing. The Geisha deal is "japanese". Hello, last time I checked, that's a big insult to both the Chinese and the Japanese people. It might have been better if it's a bigger blend of everything Asian. Throw in some Korean, Philipino, Thai, Vietnam, and the eighteen different states of India, why don't we.

First many cultures are blended into the series and Joss makes a point of that in the commentaries. Second a Chinese superpower would have probably absorbed most if not all of Asia. It can be assumed that they destroyed the local cultures (as many conquering nations including the US have done in the past and which is very common among Asian empires) and some things remained while others didn't. I don't think anyone on this thread was meaning to insult any Asians. Just like the comment made earlier about the Greeks didn't insult me even though it was a merger of American and Chinese and all Crackers aren't the same. I'm pretty sure they were trying to lump all of us European decended folks together and I'm sure no one is trying to say China and Japan are the same.

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Wednesday, January 14, 2004 4:37 PM

EARLY

I think a better question for the whole Asian thing is where are all the Asian characters. I mean you have some extras and bit parts but not even major supporting or guest stars are Asian in a future that is suppossed to be a merger of America and China. Thats kinda weird in my opinion though again I don't think Joss meant it as an offense but Asians should be much much much much more common.

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Wednesday, January 14, 2004 6:31 PM

SHAMBLEAU

There was a deletion from the Serenity episode where the guy from the Brutus said something about not accepting Asians or Catholics on their ship, which was headed for the Outer Rings. It's possible that there is tension between the two partners in the Alliance. There may be many worlds that are mainly Chinese or Asian, where primarily English-speaking people don't go, either out of discomfort or prejudice, or because of politics, if things are a little hostile. That would explain why we see relatively few Asians on the worlds that Serenity visits.

Someone suggested once that the Asian population was more centered on the Core planets, which is another reason we might not have seen them. Of course, that's fan-wankery. Finding large numbers of Asian extras is probably difficult. They can't be a large percentage of the SAG.

Another thing I thought about is that we don't know how many people from Asia got off of Earth-That-Was. They might actually have been unable to get as many of their citizens off-world as the U.S. did. They could even be a minority, population-wise. We'll never know, unless Joss decides to explain it more fully in the movie, assuming there is one.

shambleau

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Wednesday, January 14, 2004 6:38 PM

TOM

Yea that is a good point but there were asian people on the show granteed none were a major role but in Hearts of gold and some of the extras on the sets were of asian decent. maybe if the show had gone on longer there might have been more people added to the cast.....Hmm i wonder just how many people they could get on Serenity.

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Thursday, January 15, 2004 5:04 AM

CARDIE

I posted about this on some other thread. I would at the very least have expected to see a considerable Asian presence on the core worlds and among Alliance officers. In fact, it would have been very convincing if River and Simon had been played by Asian actors (not that I don't love Sean and Summer.)

Cardie

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Thursday, January 15, 2004 5:17 AM

DAVEB

Quote:
The science-fiction/Western TV series Firefly was admittedly crowded, pretentious, and too innovative to be a guaranteed success

Crowded? Maybe but the reason I love the show is the large ensemble cast and no character is negelted to the background so there's no real problem.

Pretentious? Mmmmmmm, how?

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Thursday, January 15, 2004 6:23 AM

FREMDFIRMA

>>I am reminded of the superb killing of Crow, a scene that is just half a beat away from corny.<<

The whole show is, in essence, half a beat away from corny, that is it's "magic" - that they somehow manage to write/act/film this and it's NOT corny, but entertaining.

And for TheOnion's standards, that review is glowing.

-frem
diefuxdie

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Friday, January 16, 2004 12:46 AM

DRAKON

Quote:
Originally posted by tulip:
FYI, traditional japanese geishas did not have sex with the patrons. The were exceptional entertainers (played musical instruments, read/made up poetry).

...
(damn you fox!!).

I keep hearing this, but the Japanese seemed to have a more relaxed sexual morality than was present in Protestant Christian civilization. And that makes me doubt it. I don't know.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Friday, January 16, 2004 4:53 AM

TULIP

Oh, they had(have) prostitutes. Geishas were a later (imperial japan I think) development for brothels that wanted to make their environment more sophisticated. The Geishas were usually very beautiful, excellent musicians, good at converstation, poetry, calligraphy, etc. Then once the patron had been entertained socially by the Geisha, the patron would go off to the prostitute for the actual sex. Inara seems to be a combination.

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