Something I've wondered for a while by slickt0mmy

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Something I've wondered for a while

POSTED BY: SLICKT0MMY
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 08:22
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Sunday, July 9, 2006 5:42 PM

Sorry if this is a stupid question but why is it that in Safe, Mal says to Simon (after being rescued) "You're on my crew. Why are we still talking about this?"

Then, in the BDM at the beginning he says, "I look out for me and mine. That don't include you unless I conjure it does."

Why does Mal feel one way towards Simon in the series then another in the movie? Did I miss something?

"Put Book front and center. He's our friend; we should honor him." -Mal

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Sunday, July 9, 2006 5:43 PM

For the purposes of the script.

All I'm gonna say.

-------------------------------------------------

'It's Braedan. With an A.'

'Shiny moments aren't a destination any of us get to, and stay put forever. They're unknowable, brief flashes in time. That's what makes them shiny.' -GorramReevers

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Sunday, July 9, 2006 5:45 PM

SLICKT0MMY

I understand that to new comers to the 'verse Joss needed to show that there is tension between Mal and Simon. But still, that line confuses me.

"Put Book front and center. He's our friend; we should honor him." -Mal

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Sunday, July 9, 2006 5:46 PM

NANITE1018

Quote:
Originally posted by slickt0mmy:
Sorry if this is a stupid question but why is it that in Safe, Mal says to Simon (after being rescued) "You're on my crew. Why are we still talking about this?"

Then, in the BDM at the beginning he says, "I look out for me and mine. That don't include you unless I conjure it does."

Why does Mal feel one way towards Simon in the series then another in the movie? Did I miss something?

"Put Book front and center. He's our friend; we should honor him." -Mal

It's to show that things have gone downhill. Simon and River have caused enough hardship for Mal b/w the series and the BDM that he no longer considers them part of his crew. He conjured differently than in "Safe".

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Sunday, July 9, 2006 6:12 PM

BELUGASMOM

I concur. Things have gone to hell in a handbasket for our dear Captain, he's already driven off Book and Inara with his winsome personality, and he's barely hanging on to his ship and his sanity. He's hanging on by his fingernails and doesn't care who he alienates. Hunger will do that to a person...........that, and I suspect our dear Captain hasn't gotten laid since "Heart of Gold." Get that man a Companion!!

Life is short, brutal, and unpredictable. EAT DESSERT FIRST.

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Sunday, July 9, 2006 6:30 PM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by slickt0mmy:
Did I miss something?

Nanite1018 is right, in the comics Joss tried to show how difficult things had become:
they hadn't gotten paid and a lot of the problem was the constant need to keep River & Simon safe from the Alliance.
And of course having Book & Inara leave makes Mal edgier and meaner.
He is picking fights with everyone.

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse
have you checked out this thread?:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

and listen to 'I'm Going To See Serenity':
http://music.podshow.com/music/listeners/artistdetails.php?BandHash=a0
c814e1229742ce77ed4497cbf4631c

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Sunday, July 9, 2006 6:46 PM

YROGERG

OKay thanks for the prev stuff that helped guess i should get those comics and read up. Other things come to mind about the movie. Like why does River get better so quickly how does such a simple thing fix a huge medical problem does it have to do with the goverments "activation"

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Sunday, July 9, 2006 7:12 PM

NANITE1018

Quote:
Originally posted by Yrogerg:
OKay thanks for the prev stuff that helped guess i should get those comics and read up. Other things come to mind about the movie. Like why does River get better so quickly how does such a simple thing fix a huge medical problem does it have to do with the goverments "activation"

Oh, well sure she is traumatized from the experimentation and she can no longer push her emotions to the back of her mind. But she no longer has that horrible truth tearing apart her psyche. Now that it's out, that she knows it consciously and others know it too, it is no longer tearing her apart. The secret about Miranda was a major part of her instability. Now, with the help of medication, she should be able to be a normal super-hyper intelligent girl.

I aim to misbehave.

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Monday, July 10, 2006 12:04 AM

ZOID

Yrogerg asked:

Quote:
...why does River get better so quickly how does such a simple thing fix a huge medical problem does it have to do with the goverments "activation"

Actually -- in the real world -- the mechanics and harmful effects of repressed memories is fairly well recognized by mental health caregivers. A repressed memory of something so dire that it cannot even be examined consciously by the sufferer -- frequently a childhood trauma like sexual molestation -- can lead to a very wide range of bizarre and/or destructive outward behaviors. And the sufferer has no inkling what's causing them.

The fact that River was "alright" after her deeply buried memory is revealed (even though the memory "isn't mine and I shouldn't have to carry it"), is one of my favorite moments from the movie because the turnaround is frequently just that rapid in real life, too. Once the too-painful-to-recall trauma is brought to the surface, much of the sufferer's internal agony is lifted from them in what can be an astonishingly immediate way.

So, I really liked that moment, because it was 'real', and because Joss found a totally believable way to rehabilitate River in a single moment of self-recognition.

Now, whether the Alliance can or will still 'trigger' River's conditioned killing response is another question, entirely. But, if I was Mal I wouldn't let that girl anywhere near a Cortex-connected device... (NB: Now what's Mal gonna do for pr0n, whilst 'handling his plow'? Won't make Jayne happy either, I'd wager.

)

Digitally,

zoid

P.S.
See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repressed_memory. And I just spent like 15 minutes trying to figure out Wiki's markup to add the Serenity reference to the "Repressed memories in popular entertainment" section (turned me into a newt, but I got better)...
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Monday, July 10, 2006 12:11 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by slickt0mmy:
Sorry if this is a stupid question but why is it that in Safe, Mal says to Simon (after being rescued) "You're on my crew. Why are we still talking about this?"

Then, in the BDM at the beginning he says, "I look out for me and mine. That don't include you unless I conjure it does."

Why does Mal feel one way towards Simon in the series then another in the movie? Did I miss something?

"Put Book front and center. He's our friend; we should honor him." -Mal

Seems pretty simple to me. Mal and Simon have an agreement that Mal keeps the Tams on the move and away from the Gov't and Simon earns his keep by being the ships doctor. Times are tough, and Mal's in a desperate spot, which means he's gonna do what it takes to get out of a jam. That means making use of River.

Plus its important for the script.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, July 10, 2006 12:19 AM

SPACEANJL

I was wondering about this, too. I think River has a certain amount of control over her response - she didn't shoot Mal in the Maidenhead, and she had the time. She was knocking out bar patrons, and injuring them (some of them possibly fatally, but pointing a gun at her was dumb) but she didn't kill Jayne, and there were other people coming round when Mal carried her out. Whether they then survived the Operative is another story - (he had Fanty and Mingo captive in TBOTF)

Gotta wonder what else is in her brainpan though...

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Monday, July 10, 2006 9:56 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

SlickTommy - You have to really look at the BDM and the show as two separate entities.

I think it is as simple as that. People new to the verse would not have heard the first quote.

This was a way for Joss to convey that there was a lack of friendliness between Mal and Simon. In the show, we saw that during the whole pilot, in the BDM it had to be conveyed in the first scene so that we would understand Simon punching Mal and Mal agreeing to their leaving.

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Monday, July 10, 2006 10:07 AM

NOSADSEVEN

Quote:
Originally posted by slickt0mmy:
Sorry if this is a stupid question but why is it that in Safe, Mal says to Simon (after being rescued) "You're on my crew. Why are we still talking about this?"

Then, in the BDM at the beginning he says, "I look out for me and mine. That don't include you unless I conjure it does."

Why does Mal feel one way towards Simon in the series then another in the movie? Did I miss something?

In addition to the devolution of Mal's general disposition by the movie, I see Mal as not so much telling Simon he's not one of the 'me and mine', just that if Simon gets in his way enough he won't be.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

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Monday, July 10, 2006 10:27 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by slickt0mmy:
Sorry if this is a stupid question

It isn't.

Quote:
but why is it that in Safe, Mal says to Simon (after being rescued) "You're on my crew. Why are we still talking about this?"

Then, in the BDM at the beginning he says, "I look out for me and mine. That don't include you unless I conjure it does."

Why does Mal feel one way towards Simon in the series then another in the movie?

This has already been said but I want to repeat:

Mal's position isn't different in the movie because otherwise he would have left River in the bar, what the line says seems very clear to me, "You're on my crew because I say so, I can change my mind." Whether you see it as a warning or a threat the line only makes sense if he currently does include them in, "me and mine."

-
--
-

On the subject of River the shooting script has more conversation between the Operative and the Dr Mathias than what made it into the final film.

In that conversation is is revealed that the reason the Operative is there is because someone realized that River's mental state went to hell right after she was shown off to Key Members of Parliment so the implication is that, while the medical part of it may have left River in trauma and slightly off kilter the reason for the vast majority of her problems was having Miranda in her head.

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Tuesday, July 11, 2006 8:22 AM

INDIGOSTARBLASTER

Just to elaborate on that... I think Mal really meant it when he said in "Safe" that Simon and River are part of his crew, and he was just being ornery when he said Simon and River were his "guests" in the BDM. (Kind of like a parent saying to his/her children "This is my house, you follow my rules, and if you don't like that you can just leave." Very few parents actually mean that, or mean to imply that it isn't their children's house as well.)

After all, even after they had explicitly agreed that Simon and River were leaving and would therefore not be part of the crew, Mal still took them back to Serenity after they had caused a heap of trouble.

It's one of those kind of puzzling things -- Mal is more or less a man of honour and his word is his bond, but he can be downright mean sometimes. He tells the Tams they are merely guests when really he thinks of them as crew; he calls Inara demeaning names when he really has enormous respect for her. If they took his words at face value they'd think he hated them.

Hmm... it just struck me that he only acts this way to the "Alliance-y" members of his crew. It's like he just can't resist taking them down a peg... maybe some kind of inferiority complex?

Indigo S.

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