Fire in space by DaveB

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Fire in space

POSTED BY: DAVEB
UPDATED: Sunday, February 1, 2004 20:36
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Thursday, January 15, 2004 12:14 AM

Now I love everything about Firefly and I really like the fact that there's no sound in space. So surly you wouldn't see an explosion either as there's no air in space. Yet in the episode 'Bushwhacked' we clearly see the spaceship, which has been attacked by Reavers explode. Any explanations?

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Thursday, January 15, 2004 12:35 AM

LENNIER

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveB:
Now I love everything about Firefly and I really like the fact that there's no sound in space. So surly you wouldn't see an explosion either as there's no air in space. Yet in the episode 'Bushwhacked' we clearly see the spaceship, which has been attacked by Reavers explode. Any explanations?

It's called oxygen, bub.
The stuff that humans need to breath if they're going to be inside a little tin can in space.

You might just as well ask why we could see the fire drifting off into space in "Out of Gas", but then we'd have to use the word 'special'.

p.s. just to be clear, the vacuum in space doesn't STOP fire from occuring, if there is air and fire to be had. Of course, the explosion of the ship couldn't last very LONG nor go very FAR (nor would we hear it unless we were connected to it by something), but what we're shown in the episode is small and only lasts a few seconds.

And also, it makes a nice metaphor, doesn't it? Joss's main reason for being realistic with this series was really that it fit his meaning and the feel he was going for, not because he's obsessed with realism.

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Thursday, January 15, 2004 1:03 AM

REDKOMMIE

There was Oxygen on board the ship at the time. When they fired on it, the oxygen reacted with the big balls of engery they were shooting at it, and hence why we saw an expolison.

Fire being sucked out would be the same way. There was alot of oxygen being sucked out with it. Once it burns up all the oxygen, then there will be no fire.

I will say I don't think it would have happen that way, but since I don't have a degree in Rocket Sicence I am not going to try to explain it anymore. :p

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Thursday, January 15, 2004 3:21 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Seems others beat me to the explaination.

I would agree that there can be explosions in space, as the vacuum does not eliminate the detonation of gases or the weapon itself. The explosion would occur, and would be visible so long as there is oxygen to feed it. Once that is gone, the explosion would play out.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Thursday, January 15, 2004 4:37 AM

DAVEB

Ok that seems logical.

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Thursday, January 15, 2004 11:03 PM

RONALDRAYGUN

If a ship loaded with oxygen exploded in space there would probably only be a quick flash of fire and then nothing. With zero G's in a vacuum the gases required to keep a fire ignited would almost instantly spread out in all directions becoming to dispersed to remain "on fire". Also the byproduct gases from a fire in space would not rise as they do on Earth so the fire would end up smothering itself.

Bender! You're blind stinking sober!

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Thursday, January 15, 2004 11:52 PM

DRAKON

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveB:
Now I love everything about Firefly and I really like the fact that there's no sound in space. So surly you wouldn't see an explosion either as there's no air in space. Yet in the episode 'Bushwhacked' we clearly see the spaceship, which has been attacked by Reavers explode. Any explanations?

You would see an outrushing of gasses and debris from such a hit. What you will not see is a "billowing" as the cloud of expanding gas will not roll into itself after some distance from the initial explosion. Which I am sure is what you meant, and I am just being my pendantic self.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Friday, January 16, 2004 6:22 AM

JASONZZZ

Actually, NASA has done lots of study of zero-g fires (imagine that?!). The were lots of significant findings, but some of them contradicts what people thought. Such as what you described. In zero-g, fires tend to be 'localized' and smolder, but burn much hotter - precisely because there is no gravity and no weather, the hot gases from the fire doesn't billow up, spread, and carry all over. The fire just rolled up into a ball of hot gas if it's in free space, or tend to smolder (super hot) right around the ignition material and become very difficult to detect.

An explosion and rapid expansion of gases would behave quite differently though.

Quote:
Originally posted by RonaldRaygun:
If a ship loaded with oxygen exploded in space there would probably only be a quick flash of fire and then nothing. With zero G's in a vacuum the gases required to keep a fire ignited would almost instantly spread out in all directions becoming to dispersed to remain "on fire". Also the byproduct gases from a fire in space would not rise as they do on Earth so the fire would end up smothering itself.

Bender! You're blind stinking sober!

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Sunday, February 1, 2004 8:06 PM

MRPEERMAN

You do realize, that those "experiements" were also done inside... If you think that everything just sits where it is, I ask you, please, walk out of a shuttle when it's in space, and tell me if the air in your mask sits where it does when there's a hole...

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Sunday, February 1, 2004 8:36 PM

JASONZZZ

Right. And I did say that there is a difference in how gases behave when it's pressurized in zero-G .vs. not pressurized in zero-G. If the gas is not pressurized or in a static environment, then it does sit there. Gases don't just expand for no reason even in zero-G.

I was only describing the interesting bits when it's in an equi-static environment and zero-G or a non-pressuized and zero-G environment.

I think we've seen enough of the hot jet of flame spewing out of a spaceship CGI FX enought. What isn't completely intuitive is what happens in that non pressurized zero-G environment. What I was describing was what happens in zero-G contained equi-static environment, pressurized or not. The fire will simply smolder and not run like hell thru all of the corridors.

Here's another one. You hold a helium balloon while sitting in the cargo area of a van. The van takes a sharp right turn. What happens with the balloon?

Quote:
Originally posted by MrPeerMan:
You do realize, that those "experiements" were also done inside... If you think that everything just sits where it is, I ask you, please, walk out of a shuttle when it's in space, and tell me if the air in your mask sits where it does when there's a hole...

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