Male and Female Imponderables--We are such stuff... As dreams are made on by Tristan

Damn, still too slow. I can still lift heavy things.

"Better dead and cool
Than alive and uncool."

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Monday, July 17, 2006 11:56 AM

Out for the night. Y'all have fun and I will talk to my fellow Imponderable-ers tomorrow!

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Monday, July 17, 2006 12:11 PM

WHITEFALL

Ahhh feminism......

Did a project on the 70s resurgence of feminism (topic was my choice), was really pretty interesting, but you folks raise an interesting point. Feminists of that era, Friedan in particular, were out to disprove that all females could do was be housewives, but when their ideas became politically correct, this ended up leaving housewives alienated. At the time, so many women were housewives anyway, despite feminism, that the idea of implying motherhood was limiting ones potential didnt seem to matter: how likely was it that the reform movement's ideas would become so widespread that they themselves would need reform?

So here today we have some problems feminists legitmately fight for, such as the glass cieling and equal pay, and some that feminists helped create: the stigma against motherhood.

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

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Monday, July 17, 2006 12:15 PM

GED

Ok, here goes a ponderable. If you were actually in the verse and ended up on Serenity and you had the chance to "be" with one of the crew (or non crew characters, ie YoSaffBridge), who would it be?

I'd choose Kaylee... she's so sweet!

__________________________________________________
This above all, — to thine ownself be true.
http://www.myspace.com/artv

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Monday, July 17, 2006 12:26 PM

Evening yall.

I tend to avoid subjects like feminism. I seem prone to offending people when discussing anything with that much political correctness hanging about it.

GED- I don't know. Inara maybe. I find her very alluring.

and as an unimportant aside, I recommend avoiding heat exhaustion

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Monday, July 17, 2006 12:26 PM

RUGBUG

Quote:
Originally posted by Ged:
Ok, here goes a ponderable. If you were actually in the verse and ended up on Serenity and you had the chance to "be" with one of the crew (or non crew characters, ie YoSaffBridge), who would it be?

Um, pondered that for all of .0000000001 seconds. Answer is Mal. Though I might have to wrestly FMF for him. But I'll make a deal with her. She can have Nathan if I get Mal.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 12:34 PM

You know, I don't really think of any of them like that anymore. I feel too speculative of any of them to get too close. But I'd have to agree with Kaylee. All of the females are pretty much spoken for so I'd have to hang around a while and see what small corners of the 'verse are hiding all the wonderful women.

"Better dead and cool
Than alive and uncool."

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Monday, July 17, 2006 12:34 PM

BLACKSHAMROCK5

If was a one time thing it would definitely be Mal...or Jayne...no Mal (cause Nandi looked like she was having a good time), but if it was more than once then I would have to go with Wash just 'cause of the way Zoe was when they were done.

Shamrock

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Monday, July 17, 2006 1:10 PM

I've found myself brooding over alot in the last week. Seems to be over for the time being, but it always seems to come back. Most of it is the lack of love in my life. Some of it is my inability to really connect with anyone, even family. Distancing myself from folks as not to hurt when they go away. Does anyone else have this problem? DO uou sometimes find yourself so deep in your own self loathing that it pushes your loved ones to just outside of reach. It ain't healthy. Especially with a toddler and an infant in the house. I'm concerned that may rub off on their developing minds, ruining them like me in the future. Anyone have any advice. Anything will help at this point.

"Better dead and cool
Than alive and uncool."

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Monday, July 17, 2006 1:19 PM

NV- HUGS hon I know how you feel and have been there more times than I care to count. I can smother people with love, but not so good at letting them give it back 'cause if you depend on that what will happen when they go away...I finally figured so what if they go away I am still someone they loved in their own way and it doesn't make me less it only makes them less:) I'm not sure what to tell you other than hug them, say I love you, listen when they talk( even if it is with only 1/8th your brain)and make time for them each day just them no distractions...that's all any kid needs. You know how to do this hon You are very loving you just don't feel like it right now...we love you HUGS!!!

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Monday, July 17, 2006 1:30 PM

NV: Since I was one extremely self-deprecating and self-loathing s.o.b, I know how much distance can be put between yourself. My tiny little hangout circle consists of my two buds, and my girlfriend. (Did I not mention her before? Weird.) Difference 'tween us is I don't self-deprecate anymore, and the self-loathing is down to occasional, and I like being in either small groups or by myself. Just listen to Ms.G, you'se be fine. She knows what she's talkin' bout.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 1:31 PM

Sounds like clinical depression NV. Which I will attest is not fun. Listen to MSG's advice, talk to people about how you're feeling, and maybe see your doctor is about the best thing I can tell ya

I do the job, and then I get paid.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 1:39 PM

I just hope when they are old enough to see it, I will not have wasted my own life being unhappy. Couldn't stand having them feel responsible for my unhappiness. Just can't grasp what my problem is. Maybe a chemical imbalance? Emotional issues aside, I feel fairly healthy. I like working hard and sweating in the outdoors. That helps me feel a bit more alive. Just feels I haven't lived for myself ever. Fighting real hard to find that warm, soft spot. Just coming up short.

ADD: I'd like to say that it could be depression in a clinical sense. I may be in denial, but more or less I can go months without expressing alot of emotion and have a sudden surge of everything all at once. Who says men don't have monthlies?

"Better dead and cool
Than alive and uncool."

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Monday, July 17, 2006 1:43 PM

A chemical imbalance could be possible. I know I felt fine physically but was an emotional wreck for years. It turned out to be a chemical imbalance. Went on some meds and I'm told there was a noticable difference right away.

I do the job, and then I get paid.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 1:44 PM

ELOISA

*trebly hugs NGV* I know how that is. The real dilemma is that that time is when you need to be around people the most, but when you genuinely can hurt them the worst.

I recommend going for a jog with someone or kicking a ball around or something similar. Just do too much work to talk easily (easy for me as I have asthma, don't know how easy it'll be for you...). The body chemicals'll kick in while you're out and when you get back you'll be able to be human with your exercise-mate and also other people, which should finish the job of putting you back on an even keel. Works quite well for me, anyway. If exercise isn't an option, try inducing the same endorphin / serotonin internal mix with chocolate, followed up again by a bit of basic human contact. Not good for frequent use, but works as a quick remedy.

For the long term... Mircea's right, could be a spot of depression if it lasts more than a week or so, which is nasty. Genuine non-chronic depression does lift (and temporary steps mentioned in previous paragraph will help in lieu of antidepressants, especially the exercising). Just watch out for yourself for now - physically and mentally.

If you don't start feeling better soon re. people, remember the old adage that it's better to get close to people for the enjoyment even if they go away again in the end. There are plenty of people, myself included, who'd be happier after all if they'd remembered that.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 1:58 PM

Quote:
Mircea's right.

Gonna have to have that bronzed or something. Its not something I here often.

I do the job, and then I get paid.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 3:10 PM

WHITEFALL

Bah, self loathing, now you got me started...

I'm an excellent self-loather, you name it, I can say that I'm terrible at it. It's great stuff. Not too useful though. Eh, depression, yeah probably, and if indeed I am, it's 9 years and counting. Meh, I got that therapy thing going, it aint bad.

Toddler n a baby.... NV, wouldnt the passel o' critters make ya sorta happy?

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

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Monday, July 17, 2006 3:53 PM

NVG, you are one of the most "there" people I have had the pleasure of chatting with. You are strong enough to overcome any obstacle in your path and any challenge in your way. Us being on a board may not be enough to help...but it might be. Follow the advice that makes sense, take with a grain of salt anything that doesn't feel right. Seek help IRL if you think that is the right thing to do. Your happiness with yourself is paramount to your survival...almost everything else is trivial. May sound callous, but the most important person in your life is you. If you are not happy it makes it harder to give happiness to others.
Sorry for waxing all philisophical...I am here for you in any capacity you need.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 4:00 PM

Me too. Your the first person to suggest me ever becoming a hero before.

Wrap the batwing 'round me boys
to die is far more sweet...

Usually, I give pretty bad advice, but sometimes I get it right.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 4:32 PM

PIZ

Sheesh. I go to work for 10 hours and miss everything! Don't even know where to start catching up, so I'll wait for new stuff.

--
"That's what government's for: get in a man's way." - Mal

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Monday, July 17, 2006 5:42 PM

STILLFLYIN

Pix- Join the club
GED- If I had to choose one it would definetly be River. She's intelligent, swai, and sudden death in both hands. All of which add up to EXTREMLY attractive in my book.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 6:08 PM

CHOLLETT

Lemme see.....

Last time i posted on one of these threads was WAAAY back in Version III. Chance some o' y'all remember me...anyways, what i posted about then ended just the way i predicted, so now i'm here to put in my two cents for the new topic.

Truth be told, Depression is, sadly, a genetic tendency in my family, and i myself got hit with it. Thing was, it was when i was in the second grade, a mere child o' 7. Starting on Valentine's Day, no less (don't worry, t'wasn't caused by anything related to the day). Was the first time that the possibility of actually being mortal occured to me. Somehow, though, even at that age, i got past it. It took me months, and it was a very gradual process. There wasn't a day where i just woke up and realized i was finally out of it. Like all good things, it took work, and it was only long after that i looked back and realized that i was back to the emotional level of prosperity that i was before, with a little added wisdom.

So here i am, 10 and a half years later. When i dug myself out of that hole, i made sure to fill it behind me with shiny things that would prevent me from falling back into it, and save for about a month 3 years ago, i haven't even toed the line. I know how horrible it felt, and that alone is half the motivation to keep from going back. So, long story made slightly less long, make a list of all of the things that make you happiest and/or most content, and surround yourself with them as much as possible. I suggest the 3 F's: Family, Friends, and Firefly.

Currently, when i consider the fact that my biggest annoyance right now is that my twin brother gets more romantic attention than me, i'm in a good place.

Oh-and my answer's Kaylee or River.

Sorry for the length.

I'm babbling like a moonbrain.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 10:29 PM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

*yawn stretch*
Sorry I just kinda disappeared this morning, I had all kinds of errands to run and didn't get home until... Well, very late and I just had to go to bed.
Going back to last thread, I wouldn't say there's a gender I get along with better than another. They're all just people. I do tend to have more female friends, but am working on that. Actually met a very interesting guy at one point. Not sure there's romatic possibility there at all, but he is a cool guy. I keep meaning to call him. But there are quite a few people I'd rather avoid. Catty women and the like, yeah, but men have their faults too. The really really dense guys, fo example, who are the oppposite of perceptive and will say the stupidest things and not even pick up on it. That kind of thing gets to me. Like I said, though, they're all just people. I guess I don't really like "traditional" people or walking stereotypes or what have you.
And here's something; I love weapons and I like sci-fi and some video games, but not a lot of things that tend to kinda be related to that. I'm not obsessed with going to the Ren Faire every year, I don't play RPG's, I don't like any movie that has pretty explosions in it; I'm picky about my movies. I can watch a lot of movies, but not really be that into them. It's mild entertainment for however long and then I forget about it. Most people will be like "Wasn't this cool when that happened" and blah blah blah. My interests are varied and picky and don't fall under "male" or "female". And yes I can talk about nails for probably ridiculous amounts of time

And I love my little outfits, it's just that they don't tend to conform with whatever the magazines say. But I do so love it when everything matches.
CK, it sounds like you found a great husband. See, that's what I'm looking for is someone who doesn't want all that much time away or space or whatever. I understand that some people need that, but it makes me twitchy.

Quote:
Originally posted by Whitefall
First off, Rose and maintenance... eh, your description of yourself aint high maintenance by any means, it's a normal (or more like perfect) relationship. Only trouble is in finding someone who wants the companionship as much of the time as you do. Some folk like their privacy, some folk (I'd put myself in this category) spent way too much of their life in privacy and are looking for some company.

Thank you!

I needed that.
*wants Ms G's new bed*
Seryn, I think equality is key. Women are goddesses, no question about that. But hey, men are gods. Balance is good. And I agree with most of what you said in discrimination. And moderation is indeed key. I don't currently want to be a mother, but I might some day. Nothing wrong with it; love to pass my vast wisdom to the next generation. But I wouldn't want to raise a kid all by myself either, that's another good area for equality.
I can't sleep standing or siting, and I can't really sleep in cars very easily. Not even when I was a baby. I have a few times slept on a special little mattress on the floor, though.
BEing with one of the crew... Yeah, I've talked about that elsewhere. Probably Wash (assuming Zoe wouldn't shoot me, though I wouldn't say no to both of them....) But really I don't think a single member of the crew would be turned down. Although maybe there would be issues with Jayne and Book. I'm sure Jayne could be fun, but wouldn't take a relatiosnhip seriously. And Book is a preacher. Even if he did want to break his vows, I can't imagine that he wouldn't lecture me on the wickedness of my ways. And he's a little old for me - well, most of them are - but he's a fine looking older man. But I love Wash; he's close to my ideal personality (and knows how to please a lady, too

) But I have a mad crush on Summer.
Depression; pretty sure I went through quite a bout of it between 6th and 8th grade. Homeopathic remedies, meditation, and growing into myself all helped me out of it. Now I tend to have a fairly cheery disposition. Except when I'm hurting about something; breakups take all the wind out of my sails for at least a month, and then it takes quite a while to get back on course. I think I'm nearly there, but there are still a lot of things like regularly cleaning up and doing laundry and looking for a better job that just seem like too much work sometimes. I didn't used to mind. Just need to build myself back up. If you haven't got your ental health, you haven't got anything, right?
Hooray I'm all caught up! I'm sure this is horribly long. Off I go to catch up on other threads!

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 2:41 AM

NV - Of course I have to speak up on this!

I spent my whole life thinking I just wasn't good with people. But I was good at other stuff and went about my business, with the occasional crisis making me blue. I didn't feel depressed, just anti-social. I just knew my limits. After the most recent crisis, I went on meds. Since then, I've come to realize I've been depressed my whole life (death wish in a third grader? oh ya. depressed.) Probably, it runs in my family, especially in the women. My mom and her mom? Issues. Big time.

Now I'm thinking the whole bad-with-people thing isn't so true. Like I talked about a few threads ago: now that I can actually like other people, they tend to like me back. There are many other things too - depression shifted my whole understanding of myself.

So... I don't know what will solve it for you. But the things you say about yourself are a lot like how I was feeling a year ago, and I think you're as wrong about yourself as I was about me! The people you open up to, the ones on this thread, are seeing the real you, and it's good stuff!

Other imponderable:
Who on the crew? Duh! Mal!! yummmmy Mal. *sigh*

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I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 2:50 AM

Morning, all! Monday's behind us...here's hoping Tuesday turns out all right.

Chollett, welcome back! I think you have a lot of catching up to do...something like seven or eight threads' worth! It's ok, we'll wait...we're patient.

Morning, PR! Thought you went "poof" the other day.

Morning, Mal4Prez! You know that we love you and want you to be happy, right?

And crewmember? Oy...have to be Kaylee.

______________________________________

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:
Morning, Mal4Prez! You know that we love you and want you to be happy, right?

Thanks Tristan! I'm certainly getting there!

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I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:18 AM

Mal4Prez, you need not worry about verification...the love will always be here!

As for the happiness...we shall provide!
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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:20 AM

PENGUIN

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:20 AM

Morning all:) good to see I didn't miss a thousand posts while I slept..yes PR the bed is amazing it's giant and fabulous and I may sleep a lot more now:)

Who on the crew...oh Jayne absolutely!

NV- about 5 years into teaching I was putting in 85 hours a week, doing all the cooking ,cleaning etc at home, and helping with the school musical. One day as I attempted to finish the build of the cottage with my 104 degree fever after teaching all day my principal came up to me. He said " you know on airplanes there's a reason they tell the adult to put the oxygen mask on themselves first and then on the kids. If you can't take care of yourself, you're no use to anyone." Then he told me I had the next 2 days off( he'd gotten a sub for me) and gave me a book and hot chocolate and told me if he saw me before that he'd fire me. I started realizing he was right. You do have to put the oxygen mask on yourself first. If you want to be there and give kids what they need you have to take care of yourself and treat yourself to rest, proper food, and sometimes medication to keep your own balance before you can hold anyone else up:)...sorry it's kind of preachy and all, but I am worried about you big time HUGS and

NEW PONDERABLE- We talked about the qualities we look for in a mate.. so what are some qualities that would absolutely make you not choose someone?

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:23 AM

New imponderables: What is the BD deal with boobies?

Associated rant:

I am flat chested. I don't need a gorram bra! But if there any visible nipple detail, I get looks and even, from time to time, comments. But I've seen men with bigger chests then me wear super thin Tshirts and this is fine. What's up with that?? I just want to tell the gaping men, yes you have nipples too. Get over it! And I'm not trying to show off anything, I just like being free of elastic!

I'd burn my bra in protest but I'm not wearing one.

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I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:27 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Well, I know I've said before, but I'll say again. Kinda a recap.
1. Drug usage of any kind
2. Recklessness
3. Closed mind
4. Fundamentalism
5. Disrespectful attitude
6. Total lack of self-awareness

Um... that's all I've got right this minute. Those are the basics.

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by msg:
NEW PONDERABLE- We talked about the qualities we look for in a mate.. so what are some qualities that would absolutely make you not choose someone?

No offense to those this applies to - I couldn't date someone who avidly believes in the Bible. Or likes George Bush.

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I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:32 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
New imponderables: What is the BD deal with boobies?

Associated rant:

I am flat chested. I don't need a gorram bra! But if there any visible nipple detail, I get looks and even, from time to time, comments. But I've seen men with bigger chests then me wear super thin Tshirts and this is fine. What's up with that?? I just want to tell the gaping men, yes you have nipples too. Get over it! And I'm not trying to show off anything, I just like being free of elastic!

I'd burn my bra in protest but I'm not wearing one.

I like chests...

*ahem* sorry. Be it male or female, if someone is wearing a tight shirt I'm likely to notice. I'm not sure why it's more "acceptable" for men to go shirtless/wear tight shirts, and that kinda bothers me but... C'mon, boobies! Chests! Nipples! There is much joy to be had...

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:33 AM

LOL Mal4Prez...they can't help it. boobs are hypnotic and the check it out impulse is some what automatic. Kinda like if a guy has a really arresting eye color or great smile

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:34 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:
Originally posted by msg:
NEW PONDERABLE- We talked about the qualities we look for in a mate.. so what are some qualities that would absolutely make you not choose someone?

No offense to those this applies to - I couldn't date someone who avidly believes in the Bible. Or likes George Bush.

Ditto. Kinda lump that in with "fundamentalist" in my list.

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:40 AM

SPACEANJL

Definitely fundamentalists. Dated a guy for a while before he unveiled a really neurotic fundamentalist Christian belief system.

Other things;

smoking
Oedipal complex (don't ask)
Disinterest in food/drink/finer things in life.
Abuse issues

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:42 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I shouldn't laugh, but that Oedipal thing is funny!
Yeah, I think that any major mental health issues... That could be bad.
And any really disgusting fetishes... Of course you can't really ask that kind of thing on the first date.

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:44 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

I might let you borrow Mal, but only on days ending in Q in months beginning with P.

one of the Forsaken TM

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:46 AM

hmm that brings up the side note of how soon is too soon to tell someone something you think might be a problem for them...I mean obviously not a first date, but how soon before you say stuff like I don't want kids ever or I like girls who dress up like little bo peep?

EDIT- FMF you can keep Mal, just leave me Jayne and we're good:)
I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:47 AM

SPACEANJL

PR - And any really disgusting fetishes... Of course you can't really ask that kind of thing on the first date.

Depends on where the date is...

Met the husband at Tai chi, and bonded over the fact that I had heard of Jim diGriz.

Sometimes you can be with someone a long time *coughsevenyearscough* before you discover serious issues.

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
Definitely fundamentalists. Dated a guy for a while before he unveiled a really neurotic fundamentalist Christian belief system.

Yeah - I'd been dating one a month when he said he was concerned about how we'd raise our children, him being a true Christian and me being... well, whatever I am. I was still stuck on - children?

Oh, he also told me that there was no way he could ever be convinced to even consider the insane notion that God might be a woman. Jerk.

Other things that end the dating possibilities... lack of creativity, an insane work ethic (I used to work too much, can't be around it anymore), and if there ever was abuse of me it would stop right there. Smoking too - ick!

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I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:49 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I uh... I actually try to get that kind of thing out of the way as early as possible. Between the first and third dates. I've actually wondered if maybe I should wait on it, though, because sometimes it becomes a problem anyway, even if they say at first that they're fine with it. Or maybe I should just keep bringing it up. But I really don't think there's much point in making a real emotional investment and then letting a potential bomb drop; best to get it all out early.

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:52 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
PR - And any really disgusting fetishes... Of course you can't really ask that kind of thing on the first date.

Depends on where the date is...

So what first date location would you be able to ask "Oh by the way, do your sex life and bathroom habits collide?"
I have not personally encountered that little kink, but I would be out the door if I ever did.

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:54 AM

SPACEANJL

Yeah, 'cos things like "...and I think we should move to so and so because the schools are good." is so not what you want to hear when you are just dropping off to sleep.

MSG - didja do the fish thing? Any good?

Er, nope, coming up empty on that kind of location, PR...

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 5:05 AM

SpaceAnJL- Fish was fantastic. Thanks for the suggestion/recipe it was wonderful and my husband loved it:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 5:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I uh... I actually try to get that kind of thing out of the way as early as possible. Between the first and third dates.

Excellent issue here. I've always been one to keep myself to myself, so I'm not good at knowing where the line is for sharing info. Namely - with my new forray into dating, I feel like it could avoid badness to let a guy know up front - woman with complications here! I'm sorting them out but just so you know...

When does one let a date in on your Dark Side? I don't quite see it working as an intro. Hi, I'm on meds. How are you? Wow, you run fast!

PR - I agree re the bathroom habits - not a good kink there. *shudder*

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I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 5:11 AM