Question about OiS by Rekka2

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Question about OiS

POSTED BY: REKKA2
UPDATED: Sunday, January 18, 2004 06:17
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Thursday, January 15, 2004 9:59 PM

I was just wondering, when Early entered the ship, how did he just open that hatch without affecting the life support of the ship? I mean, the oxygen should have been sucked out, not to mention the crew being exposed to space (never a pretty picture)...

Just wondering if im missing something...

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Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:00 PM

TALONPEST

Presumably all the hatches have airlocks on them... it would be kinda silly not to.

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Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:04 PM

SLOWSMURF

The lightning there was kinda iffy...looked like you'd assume its space, but of course it isn't. (besides, almost no light would come in from outside anyway(compared to internal lightning), so there must've been a light in the airlock.

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Friday, January 16, 2004 6:27 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

I had questions about it as well.

Doesn't Serenity have some sort of proximity alert to warn of ships or objects approaching too close to the ship, a collision alert or something?

I suppose Early could have had a device to disable such a sensor, but it seems to me once the outer hatch to the airlock was opened, some sort of alarm or warning should have been sounded, at least on the bridge.

I would be willing to bet that Mal would be asking himself these same questions and coming up w/ some way to keep such an intrusion from happening again.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Friday, January 16, 2004 6:31 AM

BOOMERGOODHEART

I think it definitely has some sort of airlock, as Early puts his helmet up above the ladder. Be kind of silly to set it on the outside of the ship, right?

BoomerGoodheart
"I love my Captain."

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Friday, January 16, 2004 6:34 AM

SAINT JAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
I suppose Early could have had a device to disable such a sensor, but it seems to me once the outer hatch to the airlock was opened, some sort of alarm or warning should have been sounded, at least on the bridge.

This information might keep me from buying a Firefly, but it's not anything that should hamper your enjoyment of the episode. Early simply knows what he's doing, sneaking up in a blind spot. And the lack of alarm when the hatch opened isn't too surprising. When Jayne was nearly sucked through the hatch in Ariel it would have been funny to hear a voice calmly stating, "door is ajar; door is ajar" and repeating in Chinese, of course.

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Friday, January 16, 2004 7:08 AM

REKKA2

actually, if you think about it, why would there be an alarm for a door opening? Any alarm would prob be more rigged to trip in case of damage or a breach, but not a door opening. I mean...who boards a ship manually in outer space? its not somewhere youd normally have someone just drop in. Would have been kinda funny if he knocked or rang a bell...lol

As for the proximity alert, Wash didnt seem to have trouble in War Stories avoiding such things.

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Friday, January 16, 2004 7:42 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by Saint Jayne:
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
I suppose Early could have had a device to disable such a sensor, but it seems to me once the outer hatch to the airlock was opened, some sort of alarm or warning should have been sounded, at least on the bridge.

This information might keep me from buying a Firefly, but it's not anything that should hamper your enjoyment of the episode. Early simply knows what he's doing, sneaking up in a blind spot. And the lack of alarm when the hatch opened isn't too surprising. When Jayne was nearly sucked through the hatch in Ariel it would have been funny to hear a voice calmly stating, "door is ajar; door is ajar" and repeating in Chinese, of course.

Actually, a red warning light starts flashing & a computer voice said something about leaving the atmosphere and to close the airlock. Don't remember exactly what it said word for word, but that is the basis of what it said.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Friday, January 16, 2004 8:35 AM

SHINY

It says "leaving atmo in two minutes...secure airlock door at once"...kind of funny now that I think about it, that the computer is programmed with slang ('atmo' instead of 'atmosphere')...

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

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Friday, January 16, 2004 8:44 AM

DRAKON

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
I had questions about it as well.

I suppose Early could have had a device to disable such a sensor, but it seems to me once the outer hatch to the airlock was opened, some sort of alarm or warning should have been sounded, at least on the bridge.

That has ALWAYS really bugged me. I come from a submarine background, and we had a system that would do exactly that, tell you if a hatch was open. And it was simple and basic, why Serenity does not have it, well...

Maybe Mal has not been keeping his ship maintained the way a good captain should.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Friday, January 16, 2004 8:53 AM

SHINY

I always just assumed that Early was sophisticated enough to know how to disable any alarms prior to boarding the ship...after all, his ship was apparently able to approach Serenity without triggering any of the proximity alarms

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

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Friday, January 16, 2004 9:48 AM

SLOWSMURF

Remember, Wash did notice something strange a bit before he boarded, but obviously early had done it right and made only a minimal indication of himself.

As for the door, you can either fault Joss for not having an alarm(again as this would be a minimal issue it might have only been on the bridge, and as far as I know, no one was there), or assume early disabled it before opening the door. Personally, I'd go for the second one.

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Friday, January 16, 2004 10:03 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by Drakon:
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
I had questions about it as well.

I suppose Early could have had a device to disable such a sensor, but it seems to me once the outer hatch to the airlock was opened, some sort of alarm or warning should have been sounded, at least on the bridge.

That has ALWAYS really bugged me. I come from a submarine background, and we had a system that would do exactly that, tell you if a hatch was open. And it was simple and basic, why Serenity does not have it, well...

Maybe Mal has not been keeping his ship maintained the way a good captain should.s my damn spaceship?"

I suppose that it is possible that disrepair could be the cause. It could also be that Early somehow disabled it once he reached the ships hull.

As far as his approach goes, it could be he laid in a course than drifted into proximity of Serenity under no power to try to avoid detection. Still seems a proximity alert would have been sounded.

Guess we don't want to poke too many holes in the story since Joss had to get Early onto the boat somehow.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Friday, January 16, 2004 10:18 AM

SERGEANTX

Early had an experimental 'plot device' built into the electronics of his ship that 'suspended disbelief' so that he could get onboard Serenity without alerting the crew. I believe its some sort of top secret technology the Alliance has been working on.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Friday, January 16, 2004 11:33 AM

SAKRYSTA

Remember, Wash said something about picking up a weird heat bounce off their wake.

I just assumed that if Early had good enough tech to make his ship look like a "heat bounce," he had a way to open the hatch without being detected.

River also got OFF the ship without being detected. ;)

...still a little whimsical in the brain pan...

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Friday, January 16, 2004 12:16 PM

WERESPAZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Sakrysta:
Remember, Wash said something about picking up a weird heat bounce off their wake.

I just assumed that if Early had good enough tech to make his ship look like a "heat bounce," he had a way to open the hatch without being detected.

River also got OFF the ship without being detected. ;)

...still a little whimsical in the brain pan...

The way I figure it, the proximity alert would only be neccesary for things toward the front of your ship, therefore Early could have come up from behind (with his own proximity alerts going off, I'm sure) and thus only giving a "heat bounce" that most people would think was a "sensor being turned around". As for the hatch, I think there's probably some light or something on the bridge that says the "starboard ventricle exterior airlook door is ajar" or something like that, but everyone was pretty much in bed, which Early could have what Early was waiting for, after all, the captain had made for his bed right before Early came in.

-The SpAz

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Friday, January 16, 2004 12:37 PM

SPECTRE

For starters. Early's ship ruled! As far as I know it's still drifting out there somewhere so it may be a future find.
Serenity has to have airlocks. In a few different eps EVA's were conducted. Evidence enough that there were airlocks? Besides it would be nuts not to have an airlock or EVA procedure in place.
Early obviously knew enough about the Firefly design to know how he was going to breach the ship and since he didn't want to kill River by explosive decompression he figured it out.

Wow! That came out in a blurt. It feels good to GEEK!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks.
Buzz

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Friday, January 16, 2004 12:53 PM

SUCCATASH

Quote:
Originally posted by Spectre:
For starters. Early's ship ruled! As far as I know it's still drifting out there somewhere so it may be a future find.

I know I'm not the first person to say this, but why didn't the crew of Serenity steal his ship or at least ransack it for valuables? Isn't that what they do best?

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Friday, January 16, 2004 1:19 PM

SHINY

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Quote:
Originally posted by Spectre:
For starters. Early's ship ruled! As far as I know it's still drifting out there somewhere so it may be a future find.
I know I'm not the first person to say this, but why didn't the crew of Serenity steal his ship or at least ransack it for valuables? Isn't that what they do best?

Yes, I had the same question when I first saw the ep. The only reason I could come up with is that it might be too distinguishable and maybe Early's friends or employers might be able to trace it back to the crew (especially since many of their disreputible contacts are probably not about selling them out...)

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

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Friday, January 16, 2004 5:47 PM

KERNELM

This has been discussed before... note first of all that it's almost certainly River who sends the ship off. Why didn't Mal stop her then? Who knows. Could be he was so relieved River's plan worked he wasn't thinking about the ship, maybe he told River to send it to a rendezvous point where Serenity could get at it more easily. Other theories also exist...

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Saturday, January 17, 2004 2:54 AM

DRAKON

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
I always just assumed that Early was sophisticated enough to know how to disable any alarms prior to boarding the ship...after all, his ship was apparently able to approach Serenity without triggering any of the proximity alarms

Proximity alarms I will give you. Different stealth/cloaking technology may make his ship look nothing more than some abnormal heat bounce off the engine wake.

[Even then, I would do a quick turn to "clear baffles" (look at blind spots) instead of blowing it off]

But the hatch alarms? All you need is a limit switch mounted against the hatch. Wire it so any break in the line triggers the alarm (switch closed when hatch closed. Make is small enough, and any tiny opening in the hatch breaks the switch, sets off the alarm. Early can't wire around the switch from the outside, he has to open the hatch first to do that, and that sets off the alarm.

So the hatch alarms have to be in disrepair or not maintained. An open hatch is a big danger on a spaceship, so not maintaining it seems kinda extremely negligent.

Of course maintenence costs money.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Saturday, January 17, 2004 8:31 AM

SHADOWKATE

Okay I admit I know next to nothing about submarines, but it seems to me that most people wouldn't put alarms on the doors. Think about it:

You're in space on a ship. If someone was going to try and break in via a hatch, you'd probably be able to detect the ship and be prepared. And if you needed to open a hatch, you wouldn't want an alarm (which can be very annoying) going off.

However, with this theory, it seems to indicate that the Firefly has some design flaws (I think at some point its mentioned that they leave a wake of heat and thought that they were just picking that up) or maybe its just because Early was flying a very small ship. I did wonder if maybe he had a larger ship somewhere, since his didn't look up to intersteller travel.

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Saturday, January 17, 2004 8:58 AM

SAINT JAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by Drakon:
So the hatch alarms have to be in disrepair or not maintained. An open hatch is a big danger on a spaceship, so not maintaining it seems kinda extremely negligent.

It seems that every hatch would have an alarm, but it is only necessary to sound that alarm is there is an emergency, no? Early must have gone through the regular airlock procedures to get into the ship, and an alarm would only sound then if Wash set one up. Perhaps a surprise visit in space was not something they were expecting.

I would agree the crew had lack of foresight and caution here, but it's still believable.

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Saturday, January 17, 2004 10:57 PM

DRAKON

Quote:
Originally posted by Shadowkate:
Okay I admit I know next to nothing about submarines, but it seems to me that most people wouldn't put alarms on the doors. Think about it:

You're in space on a ship. If someone was going to try and break in via a hatch, you'd probably be able to detect the ship and be prepared. And if you needed to open a hatch, you wouldn't want an alarm (which can be very annoying) going off.

But, opening a hatch on either a sub or a spacecraft has far different consequences. The cat may get out of your house if you leave the door open. But on a spacecraft, all the air leaves with the cat. That just ain't good.

You are right that such an alarm would be annoying, which is why all noise alarms on the boat (submarine) have a cutoff switch, that just kills the audible alarm and not the blinking light. (Or in some cases, changes the blinking light to a steady on light)

DAMN! That's it. Someone cut out the audible and forgot to turn it back on. No one was in the bridge at the time, so no one noticed the light flashing when the hatch opened.. geeze, I am getting senile.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Saturday, January 17, 2004 10:57 PM

DRAKON

Quote:
Originally posted by Shadowkate:
Okay I admit I know next to nothing about submarines, but it seems to me that most people wouldn't put alarms on the doors. Think about it:

You're in space on a ship. If someone was going to try and break in via a hatch, you'd probably be able to detect the ship and be prepared. And if you needed to open a hatch, you wouldn't want an alarm (which can be very annoying) going off.

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Sunday, January 18, 2004 1:28 AM

MOMAW

River did send off the fighter by herself, but wasn't there some discussion about Early being part of an organization known as "Red Glory"? Did she hear/sense/intuit that, or recognize the markings on the ship? Perhaps Red Glory is made up of people that will kill you on sight if you have one of their ships. Sort of like stealing a police car and expecting to sell it to the scrap yard without a hitch.

Other possibilities include;
- Issues with transference of ownership on spacecraft makes it all but certain that the Alliance will eventually learn that the ship was sold, when and where; they'd be very interested in such information. Better that the ship vanish without a trace.

- They wouldn't be able to sell it at all because they aren't the lawful owners. It seems like a very Alliance thing to do, strangle up on ship manufacturing and sales. Plus they just fought a nasty war mere 6 years ago, so they're mostlike combing ship records carefully to make sure the browncoats aren't cropping up again.

- River acted on her own iniative and got rid of the ship because it disturbed her. Well, disturbed her more than she already is.

- It had some sort of undefeatable anti-theft device. How River would detect such a device is open to speculation.

- The writers just didn't feel like dealing with it.

How Early got into the ship? He's really good, obviously. You could probably do some interesting things with induction from the outside of the hatch. Or has anybody considered the possibility that River was already outside at that point, and he got in because she left the hatch unlocked? Though one wonders, wouldn't he see her exiting the ship. Mmm, no, I don't like that, makes him look stupid. Or even better, that she knew all this was going to happen and unlocked the hatch for him because she already had her plan worked out. I like that, makes River seem even more bizarre.

And why is everybody saying it's MAL's fault if the airlock closure sensors aren't working? Go yell at Kaylee! Or rather don't, just mention it nicely and offer fresh fruit as a bribe. If it's something to do with the ship's workings or innards, Captain Dummy isn't going to be the one to deal with it. So far the extent of his demonstratable mechanical skills is connecting wires after somebody else shows him where the part goes. The idea that they can't afford to fix them doesn't really work: if a hatch isn't closed and they break atmo, they all die. So airlock sensors are definitely high on their priority list.

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Sunday, January 18, 2004 4:24 AM

GOATUS

Remember when Wash got serenity to dock with niska's space station without being detected? if a humble cargo ship can do it then boba fetts must be able to ;)

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Sunday, January 18, 2004 6:17 AM

SHADOWKATE

Quote:
Originally posted by Drakon:
But, opening a hatch on either a sub or a spacecraft has far different consequences. The cat may get out of your house if you leave the door open. But on a spacecraft, all the air leaves with the cat. That just ain't good.

You are right that such an alarm would be annoying, which is why all noise alarms on the boat (submarine) have a cutoff switch, that just kills the audible alarm and not the blinking light. (Or in some cases, changes the blinking light to a steady on light)

However that is the point of most airlocks. The idea being that you can't open up one of the doors (say the inside one) with the outside one being open so that the air stays in.

However I think that Saint Jayne is probably right, there is probably the correct procedure for going in and Early followed it.

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