So who was Book? by SpaceCoyote

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

So who was Book?

POSTED BY: SPACECOYOTE
UPDATED: Thursday, August 3, 2006 06:52
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 5006
PAGE 1 of 1

Sunday, July 30, 2006 5:30 PM

We never really get to hear or see who Book really was in the past, but we do get a few moments and clues that suggests he was not always the man he appeared to be. Was he running from something when he boarded Serenity?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, July 30, 2006 5:39 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

My personal theory; he was an Operative. Having to retire, he took his fanatical faith in the parliment and turned it into faith in the Church. Going into retreat and moving past the horrors he may have done in his past, he became a Shepherd. It might be why he defended the fed in the pilot, and certainly explains his star treatment at an Alliance facility. Just look how the Operative was treated in the movie. Probably Book's ident card just said he was high-status and was to have access to anything he needed.
It comes the closest to fitting to me. Possibly he was just a high-ranking member, but considering what he knew about how an Operative "thinks and moves" I'm pretty sure that's what he was.

**********************************

**********************************

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, July 30, 2006 6:06 PM

ANONYMOUS1

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceCoyote:
We never really get to hear or see who Book really was in the past

Nathan Fillion revealed much to Joss's horror Book's past at a convention in 2005.

Nathan said Book "was a landscaper".

Joss said "This is your last convention, young man."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, July 30, 2006 6:14 PM

REVDEADCORPSE

There is the Operative theory.

There is also the "high level government official" that has gone into retirement to escape the sins of his past.

My favorite is that he was an Alliance general. Possibly one of the ones that helped break the Independents on Hera.

Dunno for sure.

Hey... I've got an idea. Let's get Universal to green light another movie so Joss can tell more of the story...

*sigh* If only it were that easy...

Qui Desiridat Pacem, Preparet Bellum

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, July 30, 2006 6:28 PM

XITWOUND117

There's no way he was an Operative, I don't think the Parliament would just let an Operative go. Plus, Book seems far less composed than an Operative would be. The one in the movie has just about no emotions, shows no fear, and is an expert of combat. Book is just fair in combat, certainly fears, and is a man of God. How can you be a man of God after being an Operative? Book seems genuine in his faith in God, so I don't think its an act. Plus, he's more insecure than an operative would be.

My guess? Alliance special ops. Maybe a scout or commando. Not anywhere near an Operative, but enough to know something militarily, be allowed to slip away from the alliance, and still try to reconcile his actions with God.

I'm absolutely fascinated with the meaning behind what he says in Objects in Space. I really really really hope that one day Joss gets to explain it.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 31, 2006 2:12 AM

RODAN

It's possible he is (was?) some kind of assassin hired by the alliance to find and kill River. He got lucky and ran into her on Serenity, then started waiting for the right moment. He was still waiting when the alliance decided to send in the Operative.
Unfourtunatly, that theory would put even more doubt on Kaylee's seemingly uncanny ability to sense good people.

________
Bwa.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 31, 2006 3:13 AM

STORMFALCON70

Quote:
Originally posted by RevDeadCorpse:
There is the Operative theory.

There is also the "high level government official" that has gone into retirement to escape the sins of his past.

My favorite is that he was an Alliance general. Possibly one of the ones that helped break the Independents on Hera.

Dunno for sure.

Hey... I've got an idea. Let's get Universal to green light another movie so Joss can tell more of the story...

*sigh* If only it were that easy...

Qui Desiridat Pacem, Preparet Bellum

Alliance general? Mmmmm....I like it!

Damn you'se highups fer robbing us the opportunity to see Books story told.

As fer the Alliance letting Book 'The Operative' or Book 'The General' just 'slip away' well....he had powerful connections? Generals can retire you know. Who says Operatives can't also? So they kept a close eye on him for awhile....until he dissappeared aboard Serenity. I don't remember him leaving the ship as much as the others, so....?

And, by the way, bloody-wicked-evil people setting aside the sword for the path of faith isn't exactly an unheard of concept in literature and history. This in response to the poster who doubted he could have been such a 'monster' as 'The Operative' then become a man of God.

I like the 'General' idea....I like the 'Operative' idea.

A Browncoat AND one of the 2%

"It's my estimation that every man ever got a statue made of him was one kind of sumbitch or another."

Capt Mal Reynolds

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 31, 2006 3:21 AM

DARKFLY

It's obvious he's been part of the alliance before but I think he was an operative which realized what he did was wrong much like the operative in the Big Damn Movie and then realized the only way to get forgiven for all the wrong he did was to give himself to GOD,nuff said.

------------------------------------------------

This is about to get interesting...Define interesting...Oh GOD oh GOD we're all going to die.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 31, 2006 4:16 AM

SPACEANJL

Posted this elsewhere, but I'll post it again.

Cop. Maybe Military Police. Possibly Internal Affairs. Possibly on the take.

Think 'LA Confidential'. It would fit with the criminal knowledge, and knowledge of the Operative.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 31, 2006 4:17 AM

CALLAHAN

I'm personally a fan of the higherish ranking general in the War theory.

Explains all his knowledge, certainly his clearance.

Became a man of faith in a monastery to escape what he had done in the war. When he left, he left to see the rest of the verse, see what kind of a place he helped create.

At the end of Serenity when he's clearly upset about the events that had taken place all in that one day, he's not upset because it's broken the type of a life he's supposed to uphold as a preacher, but because he knows that his actions in the war eventually forced people to take up this type of life and do bad things. He wasn't sure he was on the right ship because it was too stark of a reminder of what he has created.

Just the way I see it.

---

"It's a Callahan full-bore auto lock. Customized trigger, double cartridge thorough gauge...
It is my very favourite gun."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 31, 2006 6:37 AM

PAGANPAUL

High ranking generals would not get beat up and taken off guard quite so easily. Same with law enforcement and cops. An operatave (or even an ex-operative) would be doubly aware of potential dangerous situations. Plus I don't think a retired operative would be allowed to just walk away (if allowed to retire at all!), and almost certainly their past would be shrouded and they'd not have enough clout to make an Alliance crew hop to it.

I've posted it in other threads, and I'll post it again here.

I think he used to be a member of Parliament. That's how he would know about the methods the operatives use, and would have some military training, but as a government official he wouldn't necessarily be used to assessing every situation for personal danger, thus he gets knocked out and beaten up much more than a general, cop or operative would.

We've never seen the members of Parliament itself, their identities are closely guarded, and we wouldn't recognize one if he just wandered on to the ship, just like Book did.

* - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * -

流口水的婊子和猴子的笨儿子。
Liou coe shway duh biao-tze huh hoe-tze duh bun ur-tze.
"Stupid son of a drooling whore and a monkey."

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 31, 2006 12:48 PM

LAMPYRID

In the pilot, the captain of the Dortmunder tells the ensign to "flag Interpol".

I think Book was simply an Interpol agent, a top cop or intelligence gatherer. He has knowledge crime, Niska, and "scrap shops". He knows police procedures when he tells off Wommack and he knows how to identify the type of gun by the wound it causes (War Stories).

In Serenity it is strongly implied that he was a former Operative, but in Firefly, Operatives didn't exist.

Book doesn't impress me either with his military knowledge or knowledge of Parliment. Was there even a Parliment in Firefly?

He doesn't seem to know what River is, he only becomes suspicious and I think shocked at what was done to her.

If he was a former Operative, he may not know specifically about Project Oracle, but it would have been his job to protect the secrets of places like Area 54.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 31, 2006 1:02 PM

STINKINGROSE

Landscaper hmm?
Maybe that's another term for terraforming? Or blowing the hell out of the landscape in battle until the hills are valleys and the valleys are plains?
Or maybe he's just got a green thumb!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 31, 2006 1:14 PM

PENGUIN

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you...

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, August 1, 2006 7:03 AM

PAGANPAUL

Quote:
Originally posted by Lampyrid:
Book doesn't impress me either with his military knowledge or knowledge of Parliment. Was there even a Parliment in Firefly?

Somebody had to start the Unification War, and authorize the experiments done on River, and later send the Blue Hands after her. Call it whatever name you'd like, but those would be the minds behind the war, the bounty hunters, the Blue Hands and even the Reavers. They would be the ones responsible for the whole mess that lands in Mal's lap.

* - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * -

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, August 1, 2006 8:09 AM

TRAVELER

I suspect Book was some type of police. Perhaps interplanetary. Just a guess. He probably got caught up with some bad cops. There seems to be an endless supply of these. Cops kind of get a bad rap on this show. But they are aliance and Mal and his crew are criminals so cops look bad even when they are only trying to arrest poor old Mal. Anyeay back to the tread. Book saw the wrong he was committing and quit. Who knows what kind of deal he had to make to leave, because he does seem to know to much. But once a cop his ident card will show this and get him some respect from Aliance dudes. I am still trying to decide if he actually joined a brotherhood of shepherds or is faking it. I always go back to what Early said in the last episode. That Book wasn't a shepherd. He seemed very sure of that fact. Or it may have been just Early's attitude toward Book personally.
I will leave that open. And since Book is now gone we will probably never know. So this is just a guess on what I've noticed from his behavior.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, August 1, 2006 7:49 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

You know what, PaganPaul? You've convinced me. It makes much more sense that he was Parlament. He would know about Operatives, would probably have worked his way through a few ranks, maybe been in some form of law enforcment first... Yeah, that fits. Very good!

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 2, 2006 7:38 AM

ZOID

Before 'losing his faith' in the Alliance Ideal and becoming a cloistered Shepherd as a reaction, Book was General Richard 'The Hammer' Wilkins. Wilkins was a brilliant battlefield tactician, mastermind of the "deep flank" maneuver that broke Independent resistance on Hera at the Battle of Serenity Valley, and effectively ending the War of Unification.

His nickname, 'The Hammer', stems from his unstinting demand for discipline from his troops throughout his military career -- and most particularly -- from his reputation as the presiding officer in numerous courts martial. He was so-nicknamed because of an over-90% conviction rate in cases he heard, and a tendency to sentence said convicts to multiple-year terms at hard labor. Basically, it was rumored that Gen. Wilkins didn't really give half a hump if you were innocent or not. If you were even peripherally involved in wrongdoing, he was going to drop the hammer on you.

After Serenity Valley, in which massive casualties were taken in both camps after the hostilities had ceased, General Wilkins held himself accountable to that same standard, quit a promising military career, and joined the clergy. It wasn't his fault that his masters decided to make examples of the rebels by letting them starve to death, but he held himself responsible anyway...

Aside from his knowledge of weapons, fighting, spies, military and police tactics, et cetera -- and the medical attention he receives on an Alliance military cruiser just by showing his retired general officer/Alliance Hero of Serenity Valley IDent card -- it also explains why he can't discuss his past with Mal.

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
...And as a general officer, I'd be willing to bet he'd had more than passing familiarity with Parliamentary Operatives. The CIA does lots of stuff hand-in-hand with the US military...
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 2, 2006 9:11 AM

NCBROWNCOAT

Zoid,
What you said makes perfect sense and answers all the questions.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 2, 2006 7:45 PM

ZOID

ncbrowncoat:

Well, yeah, it makes perfect sense; but is it right? I'm just guessing, like everyone else...

But for me, the ultimate clue is how Book talks. Specifically, every time he calls Mal, "son" (or "boy"). It's not a "my son", like a priest would say. It's not a "let me see your license, son" like a cop would say. It's the "son" spoken by a military commander.

Hot on the heels of that little insight is the way Book interacts with Jayne. That's military camaraderie to a tee. You may not have a lot in common with the guy next to you, but you're still pals. If he was a secretive ex-agent, if he was a cop, or a judge, he'd be a lot more aloof and/or judgmental, especially toward Jayne. By way of contrast, think of Jayne's interaction with (cop and spy) Dobson, leading up to his sarcastic remark: "Gee, I've never been in trouble with the law before."

Point is, Jayne's been in trouble with the law, a lot. So Book as a civilian officer or interpreter of the law? I don't think so, but that's just my opinion.

I reckon Jayne reminds the old general of most of the 'dogfaces' he once commanded, many of whom joined the service to avoid jail time...

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
I wouldn't give you a plugged nickel for most of the officers I've met; but the generals I've talked with truly impressed the hell out of me. They're great communicators (meaning they actually listen to what you're saying, too) and their breadth of knowledge and experience is nothing short of amazing. Military history and tactics, jurisprudence, intelligence gathering, logistics, battlefield medicine... The list goes on and on...
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 2, 2006 8:15 PM

TASIA

Had there been a second season - it would have been great for them to have done an entire backstory on him.

Especially with him having told Mal in the movie that he wasn't going to tell him why he knew so much abou the Alliance/Operatives.

T~

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 3, 2006 12:27 AM

JAMAICANBATMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Before 'losing his faith' in the Alliance Ideal and becoming a cloistered Shepherd as a reaction, Book was General Richard 'The Hammer' Wilkins. Wilkins was a brilliant battlefield tactician, mastermind of the "deep flank" maneuver that broke Independent resistance on Hera at the Battle of Serenity Valley, and effectively ending the War of Unification.

His nickname, 'The Hammer', stems from his unstinting demand for discipline from his troops throughout his military career -- and most particularly -- from his reputation as the presiding officer in numerous courts martial. He was so-nicknamed because of an over-90% conviction rate in cases he heard, and a tendency to sentence said convicts to multiple-year terms at hard labor. Basically, it was rumored that Gen. Wilkins didn't really give half a hump if you were innocent or not. If you were even peripherally involved in wrongdoing, he was going to drop the hammer on you.

After Serenity Valley, in which massive casualties were taken in both camps after the hostilities had ceased, General Wilkins held himself accountable to that same standard, quit a promising military career, and joined the clergy. It wasn't his fault that his masters decided to make examples of the rebels by letting them starve to death, but he held himself responsible anyway...

Aside from his knowledge of weapons, fighting, spies, military and police tactics, et cetera -- and the medical attention he receives on an Alliance military cruiser just by showing his retired general officer/Alliance Hero of Serenity Valley IDent card -- it also explains why he can't discuss his past with Mal.

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
...And as a general officer, I'd be willing to bet he'd had more than passing familiarity with Parliamentary Operatives. The CIA does lots of stuff hand-in-hand with the US military...
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

Everyone seems to be forgetting that scene in the start of War Stories, wherein both Book and Niska quote the works of Shan-Yu, (probably spelt that wrong), and anticipates that is was Niska who snatched Mal and Wash. Then in the Train Job when he talks of Adelai Niska Jayne even says, "How does Shepard know a name like that?" so how would an alliance general have known a criminal mastermind so intimately as book knows Niska?

"I mean to say."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 3, 2006 1:02 AM

DONCOAT

Well, it's certainly not unprecedented for a military force to be sent against a criminal organization.

Arguably the current actions of the US armed forces against Al Quaida (in Afghanistan and elsewhere) are examples of that. But there are better ones. American cavalry entered Mexico in pursuit of Pancho Villa. He was a revolutionary (against the Mexican government) but was considered a criminal for attacks against Americans along the border.

So an Alliance general might have knowledge of criminal organizations, either as a result of similar actions or through making contingency plans for such operations.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 3, 2006 1:05 AM

JAMAICANBATMAN

Well doncoat, how would both Book and Niska have been quoting Shan yu, coz to me that suggests that they have met before or possibly worked together, maybe Book was screwed over by him.
Not everything fits as well as you'd like eh?

"I mean to say."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 3, 2006 1:32 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Shan Yu is someone who might be read by military leaders and the like. "Warrior Poet" and all that, not to mention all the things about torture.
There was a scene that was in the script of "The Message" that wasn't put in the episode; might shed some light on Book. But then, as it was never in the ep, it also might not be canon.
Anyway, after the cops leave the ship, Jayne was to look at Book and say "You either spent a lot of time fighting bad cops or being one." and Book's response is "Maybe both."
So he might have been in law enforcement. Might have dealt with Niska. Might even have turned crooked at one point. And that, of course, doesn't preclude the possibility that he was also military and/or parlament at some point in his life. I mean, he's not exactly a young guy. Of course we never find out how long he was at the Abbey. Not that I remember.

[]

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 3, 2006 5:25 AM

ZOID

jamaicanbatman:

Shan Yu is clearly a 'through the mirror darkly' analogue of Sun Tzu, author of "The Art of War".

While "Art of War" is required reading in War College, it is also de rigeur for businessmen. So, by your reasoning, perhaps Book was a CEO for a BlueSun corporate entity?

I find it more interesting that Niska has read the works of Shan Yu. But clearly Adelai has an admiration for Shan Yu's techniques, whereas Book regards his works as more of a philosophical study rather than words to live by and a model for behavior. In addition to Sun Tzu and numerous other philosophical and strategy texts, today's War College syllabi also include Niccolò di dei Machiavelli's "The Prince", not so much to encourage students to behave in the way he prescribes, as to recognize the mentality in their enemies. I propose that an Alliance General might thus be equally familiar with the works of Shan Yu as a negative example with telling insights into common human nature, as well as the mindset of the sociopath...

As to how Book -- if he were a military commander -- would know the name of Adelai Niska: Again, you should perhaps look a little deeper into the character and breadth of knowledge/experience of our modern general officers...

First, Adelai Niska enjoys his notoriety. He's very big on "reputation", meaning he spends a lot of time making sure everybody knows that he's the baddest mutha in the system. Think of Al Capone. Do you suppose there were any military officers who didn't know the name Capone?

Second, general officers are very much aware of criminal activities in our country and abroad. Not only because they might be called upon to engage them, but because their troops might fall prey to local criminal activities, or international terrorism/criminal organizations.

In short, the militaries of the 'Free World' (at least) know a lot more -- about a lot more -- than you are giving them credit for. I know that for a fact, because I've seen the proof with my own eyes. You're still thinking of the military as a glorified version of plastic army men, good only for shooting guns and lobbing grenades (ka-blooiee!).

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
Again, like everybody else, I'm just guessing. Nobody but Joss and his 'Inner Circle' knows for sure. It wouldn't surprise me if each of the actors had been given different hints into the character of Book. If I were creating this show, I'd want to increase Book's mystery by having the actors react/interact differently to him. So, I might intimate to Nathan -- in a non-specific way and "don't tell anybody I told you" -- that Book was a copper, while likewise telling Adam that he was a judge. In the meantime, I'd keep the real secret that he was General Wilkins to myself, not even letting Ron Glass know his character's actual past nature; I'd just direct him in such a way as to get a performace consistent with that past.

In this way, the actors would subconsciously reveal how they feel about Book's past, through their body language. Then when I revealed him, the audience would see the natural and honest shock through the actors' visceral reactions on film.

But then again, I'm a great fan of manipulative directors (for instance, Huston), so...

P.P.S.
Here's a link to the National War College (US) that might set y'all to thinkin':
http://www.ndu.edu/nwc/handbooks/studenthandbook/Part3.html#CoreProgra
m
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 3, 2006 6:52 AM

NCBROWNCOAT

Zoid,
I think you have good instincts here. I spent 4 years active duty Army as an NCO, 4 in the Reserves and 13 years as a spouse. I also am currently living about an hour and a half from Camp Lejuene Marine Corps Base in Jacksonville, NC so news from there is a constant even in peacetime.

You're right how generals have to be up on everything from the local criminals, the latest intel and tactics of the enemy to how the sewer is working on post. Most have at least a masters degree and quite a few have PHD's or are close to obtaining one with a combination of military training (War College etc.) and civilian education financed by the military. They have to look at the broad picture and at the minutia at the same time.

As a spouse I worked in family support and at the Post Museeum gift shop at Ft, Hood, TX. General Shinseki was commander there at the time and I talked to him once or twice. He didnt intididate me at all and was very friendly and had a wide breadth of knowledge.

IMHO it's easier to talk to a General than anyone with the rank from Major to full Colonel. The people in those officer ranks are so focused on their particular speciality and/or command and don't have the time to get involved in a personal way with the troops except those they work closely with.

BTW the last time I visited Gettysburg there was a group from the War College there and they were doing a detailed walk around the battlefield.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER

POST DATE