Gina Torres gun trivia by DrSyn

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Gina Torres gun trivia

POSTED BY: DRSYN
UPDATED: Saturday, November 26, 2005 09:20
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Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:07 PM

I just saw my first episode ever yesterday, so I'm late with this I'm sure, but has anyone out there recognised the gun and rig she wears from an old western. They were made as toys for kids in the early sixties because of the popularity of this show.

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Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:50 PM

LOADANDMAKEREADY

It looked very much like -- but wasn't -- the rig used by Steve McQueen in the TV show Wanted Dead Or Alive. McQueen plays a bounty hunter named Josh Randall.
Sheesh, I can't believe I still remember this stuff. That must have been fourty years ago!
I notice that Gina's character Zoe seems to have a liking for 19th Century lever guns. (Gotta admit, I do too.) The rifle (carbine actually) that she uses in the episode "War Stories" is a Winchester Model 1873. You can see -- partly covered by her hand -- the brass rising block on the bottom of the frame, and -- just barely -- the side plate which identifies this model.

loadandmakeready

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Wednesday, January 21, 2004 5:27 PM

DRSYN

great catch! I didn't make out the distinction though. I think McQueens "mares leg" was some unusaul caliber like a 32.20, but they it would be interesting to know if the firefly gun was inspired by Wanted Dead or Alive which ran around 1962

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Wednesday, January 21, 2004 6:59 PM

LOADANDMAKEREADY

I happen to own a Winchester Model 1873 -- made in 1890 -- so I rather tend to take notice of these things. The scene in "War Stories" where you can see Zoe's rifle clearly is at the initial assault of Neeska's space station. She has her back to the wall with the rifle held vertically, and her hand is partially covering the top part of the brass rising block.

I was in my early teens when "Wanted: Dead or Alive" was aired, so I don't know if the gun was a model '92, or '94. About 80% of Model '92's were chambered in 44WCF (.44-40) the rest seem to be split between .25-20, .32-20, and .38-40.
The Winchester Model 1894 was chambered in just about everything imaginable, so what it actually was, is open to debate. As the cartridge overall length (COL) of the above mentioned is fairly close, there would be no particular advantage in any of them regarding magazine capacity. But the smaller bore cartridges would have lower recoil ... they were also considerably less effective.
Inspiration? Hoo nose.

I can't imagine a clumsier, more inconvenient firearm to even carry, much less actually shoot! But then, Hey! This is television -- not reality! It's for entertainment purposes only -- and entertaining it is!

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Wednesday, January 21, 2004 7:53 PM

HARDWARE

Those "clumsy" and "inconvenient" lever guns are the same ones the Native Americans used to slaughter Col. Custer and his men of the 7th Cav. at Little Big Horn.

Zoe's sidearm is a cut down lever action rifle with a very short magazine. No telling what make or caliber.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Wednesday, January 21, 2004 9:31 PM

LOADANDMAKEREADY

The clumsy, inconvenient gun I was referring to was the cut down kluge that Zoe uses for a hand gun. Not the lever action rifle.
The fact that lever guns were used to finally bring Colonel Custer to justice is one of the reasons I like them.
I'll have to look closer to see if it was a '92 or '94, but Zoe's sidearm is definitely a Winchester! As for the caliber ... it looks like a .44.

Ditto for me and my cats. (Dogs are slavish, and I don't like slavishness.)

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Wednesday, January 21, 2004 11:25 PM

LOADANDMAKEREADY

I looked closer. Zoe's side arm is positively a Winchester Model 1892 ... and it is .44 caliber.

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Thursday, January 22, 2004 3:03 AM

WERZBOWSKI

Quote:
I think McQueens "mares leg" was some unusaul caliber like a 32.20

Hey DrSyn,

If I remember correctly the caliber of the Mare's Leg, in the show, was supposed to be .45-70 gov't. A very powerful round that is still around today and has also been used as the basis for the .450 Marlin round, the .475 Linebaugh round and the .480 Ruger round.

I think, though my memory here is fuzzy, that in real life the Mare's Leg was actually chambered for .44-40 as it could carry more rounds that way and was more shootable for Mr. McQueen. They put .45-70 gov't rounds in his gun belt to make it look more intimidating.

And, uh, oh yeah... lever actions rule.

"We will rise again!"

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Thursday, January 22, 2004 4:01 AM

HARDWARE

Quote:
Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:
The clumsy, inconvenient gun I was referring to was the cut down kluge that Zoe uses for a hand gun. Not the lever action rifle.
The fact that lever guns were used to finally bring Colonel Custer to justice is one of the reasons I like them.
I'll have to look closer to see if it was a '92 or '94, but Zoe's sidearm is definitely a Winchester! As for the caliber ... it looks like a .44.

Ditto for me and my cats. (Dogs are slavish, and I don't like slavishness.)

Yeah, I've got to agree with you about Zoe's rig being clumsy. I'm sure you could operate the gun one handed a la John Wayne in Stagecoach or Ah-nuld in T2, but where's the advantage? You can operate a revolver one handed. Of couse she did use the lever like a pair of brass knuckles in "the Train Job" so there is some small advantage and it does look more intimidating.

Just my preference, but if I was going to carry a cut down longarm I would cut down a shotgun into a roombroom.

Oh, and dogs aren't slavish, they're loyal. A bad dog is a disloyal dog. But I do have two cats as well.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Thursday, January 22, 2004 4:35 AM

FREMDFIRMA

One is forgetting military mindset, here.

No matter how clumsy, difficult or inefficient a weapon is, once it's saved your arse many times over, you grow to love the damned thing and would not part with it for all the world, your hands know the feel, your reflexes know for SURE where the bullet will go, etc.

Also note that in many of the war scenes we've seen in the series, the tactical doctrine of the unification war seems based on 1917-style trench warfare, a kind of warfare very much suited to small, powerful arms without much regard to accuracy - as it's not easy to swing around a fullsize assault rifle in the trenches..
Zoe's choice of weapon makes perfect sense in such a respect, since it's single-shot "clouting power" exceeds that of most pistols or submachineguns, making it very likely the first and effectively LAST shot in an engagement at short range.

Zoe also seems well aware of the limitations of the weapon, generally preferring it's use at short ranges, opting for more conventional weaponry when needs be.

Her flawless use of grenade-clearing in War Stories also pegs her as a trench-fighter, so one must consider the origin of a weapon when discussing it's effectiveness.

Just some thoughts,

-frem
diefuxdie

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Thursday, January 22, 2004 10:00 AM

WERZBOWSKI

Quote:
Just my preference, but if I was going to carry a cut down longarm I would cut down a shotgun into a roombroom.

I agree with Hardware... Shotguns are good for CQB. (close quarters battle) I would recommend a cut down Winchester 1887/1901 lever action shotgun, a la T2, for a "roombroom" but I still like the idea of a cut-down winchester rifle for general use.

"We will rise again!"

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Thursday, January 22, 2004 5:19 PM

LOADANDMAKEREADY

The only difference -- aside from magazine attachment to the barrel -- between a Winchester Model 1887 and the Model 1901, is the '87 was 12 gauge, while the '01 was 10 gauge.

The reason this Browning design was produced for only 14 years is because ol' John Moses came up with a pump action design in 1897. There were only about 64,000 Model '87's produced, while over a Million '97's came out of the Winchester factory.

There was a reason for this.

Although the action was very slick, and easy to use -- as far as lever actions go -- the model '87 was very clumsy, and difficult to load. You have to drop the shell down into the bottom of the receiver, get your thumb in behind it, and push it forward into the magazine tube.
The '97 on the other hand, is very easy to load, and the slide (pump) action is also very fast to operate.

Once Winchester came out with the '97, the '87's days were numbered. The Model 1897 was superior in every way.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Model '87, but in a combat situation I'll grab my '97 instead.

As for lever action rifles ... give me a Marlin.

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Saturday, November 26, 2005 7:45 AM

AINTNOSHEPHERD

Are you sure Zoe's personal sidearm isn't the Josh Randall mare's leg pistol? Sure looks like it at http://www.eaglesquadron.net. Yes, she also uses a carbine in the (first) pilot, Shindig, War Stories, & others - but that ain't her mare's leg.

"Sir, I think you have a problem with your brain being missing."

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Saturday, November 26, 2005 9:20 AM

LOADANDMAKEREADY

Quote:
Originally posted by aintnoshepherd:
Are you sure Zoe's personal sidearm isn't the Josh Randall mare's leg pistol? Sure looks like it at http://www.eaglesquadron.net. Yes, she also uses a carbine in the (first) pilot, Shindig, War Stories, & others - but that ain't her mare's leg.

"Sir, I think you have a problem with your brain being missing."

By "the Josh Randall Mares Laig pistol," if you mean that it's one of the exact firearms that Steve McQueen used in the TV series -- not bloody likely! As the link you provided states, the actual ones he used are in museums.

If you mean however, one just like -- or very closely resembling -- the one McQueen used, then yes, it is. Without going back through this thread, I don't think I ever said that it wasn't LIKE the one McQueen used.

What I remember saying initially was that it was a model '92, and not a model '97 as someone had initially claimed.

A duplicate of Zoe's gun would be easy enough to make -- provided the dimensions don't violate the National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA '34) which states that a short barreled rifle cannot have a barrel less than 16 inches in length (originally 18 inches, and changed by the Gun Control Act of 1968 [GCA '68]) and/or an overall length of 26 inches.

(I've been a gunsmith for 25 years.)

loadandmakeready

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