Serenity Question? by lostdog

because he could.

No one is ever safe in Joss world.

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:09 AM

I guess you are right. I was thinking, though if they made a sequel it would not be quite the same w/out the whole crew. But I suppose something would be better than nothing.

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:15 AM

First you have to remember that in Joss world, dead is not necessarily forever.

Then, who said a sequel? Why not a prequel? Why not a movie just to be a movie and not reference the first movie at all?

This is Joss' world. He can do what he wants, and so far, what he wants has been good enough for me!

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:25 AM

I like the way you think. Maybe, even some flashbacks or two. You're making me feel better already.

"Ah, the pitter patter of tiny feet in huge combat boots."

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:26 AM

Its my job. Make folk feel better, spread the shiny and dispell the rumor that is Idaho and Iowa.

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:46 AM

You spread the shiny so well, I am blinded in Atlanta. This browncoat needs some shades.

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:47 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Alright, here's why they needed to die.

1) Joss Whedon is occasionaly a bastard. (Do I need to sensor that? 'Cause I can.)

2) We (the viewers) wouldn't have believed that anyone was in danger of dying if they hadn't. In the series, everyone had been injured, sometimes near-death (or, in Mal's case, actually death); and, the only way to instill fear for everyone's life in the Reaver battle - and Mal with the Operative - was to end a couple of characters, especially one that people liked a lot (poor you-know-who).

3) As has been previously stated, dead in Joss' 'verse rarely means dead.

4) It's realistic.

---

Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:58 AM

I don't believe in sensorship. Thanks for the reply. That made sense. It is true every time a crew was injured during the series, they seemed to make it in the end. In a way, though, that is what made them special. Okay, that is corny.... My bad. We can just cross our fingers for future episodes and a prequel or sequel, but I might not hold my breath. At least we have the box set and Serenity movie. We can still hope.

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:59 AM

Lostdog

We all asked that question! No one's "bad" - none of us liked it. We just accept and try to move on!

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:22 PM

TERRI

God, I hate Joss, if this is a prequel, then I'm going to be frickin' pissed. But I love Joss, too, you know, I can't help it. He's great. I dunno how he'll bring Wash and Book back, though, but if it's lame I'll be mad too. No clones, no robots, nothing lame like that. But it's his world. I'm just a squirrel. trying to get a nut. Whedon's going to do what Whedon wants to do.

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:23 PM

Anger Terri! Curb the anger! Have some mudders milk!

Its all good! Everythings shiny!

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 1:12 PM

I don't buy the "Joss killed off Wash and Book to make the show more realistic" angle. I've got 14 eps that say Joss can make big screen entertainment and not kill off any crew members of Serenity and still have it believable. So that opinion just doesn't Firefly with me. I do recall something where offing a couple of crew members would make the near death of Simon more believable. I guess that could be true. The only bad thing about that is that so many of the FF fans saw Serenity first (I did). Killing off Book and Wash was at that time no big deal. It wasn't until after I rented the series that Book and Wash became more than just two guys filling out the crew. Joss has to know this. It's why I think he still has plans to bring them back. I could be wrong but stranger things have happened.

Z

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 1:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
First you have to remember that in Joss world, dead is not necessarily forever.

Unfortunetly, I have to disagree. While in the Buffyverse people popping back up happens, that is believable because of the supernatral nature of the show. I think that Joss would have (will?) stick to a more realistic setup whereby people who die (particularly by having their chests smashed in) stay dead. After all, Firefly is the real world (in about 500 years).

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 1:42 PM

FRED I have to respectfuly disagree. The Firefly verse being the "real" verse 500 years from now is only one possibility. The "real' universe could and more that likely will be totaly different. So the possibility of either Wash or Book coming back should be included in any different option on the table. Is the glass half full or empty? Depends on ones POV. see below.

Book being the secrent agent that he is faked his death and infiltrated the Operatives crew. He was the second to reach Wash aboard a crippled Serenity and used his ID card to get him the best in alliance care. The future of medical care has come a long way in 500 years so they patched Wash up with a cure-all band-aid and put him in an alliance prison,until Serenity 3: The saerch for Wash hits theaters in 2010.

Z easy peezy

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 1:58 PM

Fred

I agree with Z's disagreeing.

We thought Tracy was dead then he wasn't then he was. Or is he?

Got it

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:04 PM

I agree with FUTUREMRSFILLION's agreeing with me.

Z

Hiya FMF

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:14 PM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
First you have to remember that in Joss world, dead is not necessarily forever.

Then, who said a sequel? Why not a prequel? Why not a movie just to be a movie and not reference the first movie at all?

This is Joss' world. He can do what he wants, and so far, what he wants has been good enough for me!

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

I agree with FMF. When we get our BDHs back Joss will find a way to include Wash and Book...Prequel sounds good to me. There are many stories to be told with these characters and if anyone can pull it off seamlessly it's Joss. Read some Fanfic, good ideas aplenty(also a lot of horrendous plot ideas)created by people that do not have Joss' talent. And FMF I took my Meds today. *Hugs and kisses*

*Edit*....Not meant that people who create Fanfic aren't talented... I'm sure some may even posses Joss' talent...

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:15 PM

Hiya Z

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:16 PM

Hi ya Kaneman!

Glad to hear it! Hugs and Kisses back!

And I agree with Kaneman agreeing with me agreeing with Z.

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zzetta13:
FRED I have to respectfuly disagree. The Firefly verse being the "real" verse 500 years from now is only one possibility. The "real' universe could and more that likely will be totaly different.

I wasn't really being serious, I would actually be a little surprised if we had cheap, easy interplanetary transportation in 500 years.

Quote:
Book being the secrent agent that he is faked his death and infiltrated the Operatives crew. He was the second to reach Wash aboard a crippled Serenity and used his ID card to get him the best in alliance care. The future of medical care has come a long way in 500 years so they patched Wash up with a cure-all band-aid and put him in an alliance prison,until Serenity 3: The saerch for Wash hits theaters in 2010.

And I wouldn't watch either of them. Torturing logic and reversing major decisions just because the fans don't like them is not something I am a fan of. My point was that in the Buffyverse things like

Select to view spoiler:

Angel coming back from Hell

are somewhat acceptable because of the supernatural aspects of the show, but in Firefly things are supposedly remotely based on reality. Book was probably buried by the BDH's, and I don't think even an Operative could fool them (probably had Simon checking every possible vital sign). Wash was imapled by a giant...thing, he was dead before the camera cut away and he must have stayed dead for quite some time before anyone would have taken the time to pull him off the spike. Brains don't last for very long without oxygen.

Wash and Book died so that the tension could be racheted up (I think Joss talks about this in the commentary), Book died because it's an ensemble action movie and a good guy is supposed to die, Wash died because Joss wanted to take us out of the comfort zone ("well the obligatory good guy dying thing happened so the rest of them will be just fine no matter what"). IMHO bringing them back (outside of a prequel), would cheapen their deaths in the BDM and I for one would rather they be dead and have their deaths have meaning then have them alive just because the fans want it to be so. If the fans got everything they wanted out of every show then there would be chaos. I hope I am not alone in hoping that if there are more movies Joss sticks with whats happened so far.

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:52 PM

DONCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by lostdog:
I don't believe in sensorship.

Or censorship, either.

Or censership, for that matter, unless you're trying to make Inara's shuttle smell funny.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:59 PM

TERRI

"Anger Terri! Curb the anger! Have some mudders milk!

Its all good! Everythings shiny!"

Anger? No, futuremrsfillion. Not anger, just a deep, hollowed out nothingness where my heart should be. Man, I sound gorram rabid. My bad, my bad. Let me take a step back and bring myself together. I don't want Joss thinking I'm lurking around his house or something. Let's just say we have creative differences, lol.

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:03 PM

I agree that a lot of the shows appeal is due to the believability injected into it by the writters. But I would not limit myself to watching FF or sequel to Serenity if W/B happen to come back. JMO

If they remain dead, that's cool. But if Joss would manage to bring one or both back IMO that's the coolest.

My second opinion. I think Joss already knows what his plans are if the show were to continue. What I or you think doesn't make a difference. If they come back, I'll watch the show. If they don't come back,I'll watch the show. If he hasn't written or hasn't thought of any future plans for Wash or Book that's just the way it is. The only thing I would not like would be if he tried to bring one of them back in a "Jump the Shark" type of eps.

Now lets talk about the realm of believability. In the BDM. Jayne harpooned through the leg and pulled behind the mule(full body length) by a reavermobile. Seems the thing to do from a reavers POV would be to put on the brakes and enjoy your Jayne McNuggets.That didn't happen and I accept that. But like I've always said JMO.

Z

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:05 PM

WTE

I agree with pretty much everything Fred has said so far, I think.

Just thought you all should know. :p

HONKS

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:17 PM

Yeah, censorship. That's what I meant. Thanks
Damn, I need to lern to spell. I know, learn.

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:22 PM

LostDog

Has anyone welcomed you yet? Do you have your browncoat?

A Shiny Shiny welcome!

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:27 PM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by lostdog:
Yeah, censorship. That's what I meant. Thanks
Damn, I need to lern to spell. I know, learn.

Many lurking school teachers.....Spell check will keep them at bay.

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:33 PM

That and a spit ball

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:33 PM

Me understand. Me will pay more good attention.
No, seriously, I need to use that spellcheck more often. If I mess up again, which could very well happen. I trust someone to bust me on it. I promise to do the same.

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:49 PM

LOSTDOG welcome to the boat.

Enjoy some mudders milk. Nice thread you got going here.

Z

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 4:01 PM

Thanks Z. This is a cool website and I should have joined sooner. Long time Firefly fan. First day on the boat. I think this lost dog has found a home.

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 4:10 PM

Shiny LostDog

Join in the wacky fun - but remember - the slip n slide is mine!

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 4:17 PM

DEVONNITE

You guys do know that all of the BDHs signed on for the Trilogy right??

Joss plans on all of the characters being in future movies.

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 4:48 PM

Don't worry FMF. I know what happens when you rock the boat. The slip n slide is all yours. I am just happy to be a part of this shiny shindig and thanks for the welcome earlier.

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 4:55 PM

Welcome Devon!

And of course we know silly you. We are only the obsessed!

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 5:07 PM

JOSSISAGOD

I'm not gonna pay attention to others who responded to your post, strictly to give you my POV. I believe in the commentary, Joss says something along the lines of, he killed Book in the first half of the movie, and subsequently, Wash in the second, to show those who stepped in without seeing the series first, that no one was safe, and to keep the tension up. Also, the rest of the crew gets pretty banged up by the end of the movie as well.

Also, Welcome to the 'Verse, I think you'll like it here!

JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

Self appointed Forsaken! Been on the list for a while now!

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
"Look at me, I'm STUPID!" The Doctor.

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 5:35 PM

I am glad to hear that. I think all are great actors. I'm surprised I haven't seen more of them on tv and big screen recently.

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 5:38 PM

I have heard a lot of opinions today and I love them all. Yeah, actually I thought everybody was going to die there for a moment or two in the movie..

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 6:04 PM

HIEI

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but Book can't come back his dead body was turned into crispy fried Book. Mal had his dead body put front and center of Serenity when they were tieing dead bodys on the front of the boat to fool the reavers. As for Wash he has a hole through him, I don't care what kind of medicine you have it won't cure a hole through you.

"A man of honor, in a den of thieves."

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:03 PM

STAKETHELURK

To specifically quote Joss (from the Visual Companion): “By the way, there’s a strong possibility that everybody would return for a sequel. How is that possible? Not my usual way--there are no amulets to be had for love or money. But there’s every chance you could see these characters again.”

And to elaborate a little, although on Buffy and Angel characters did return from the dead in various supernatural ways (as vampires, as ghosts, as manifestations of the First, as demon-possessed shells, in alternate realities, or completely resurrected), Joss also--perhaps more frequently--used scientifically plausible methods to give us another look at characters. Flashbacks have been discussed already (had the series continued, for example, Tracy might’ve appeared in another wartime flashback). But Joss has also used dreams, visions, hallucinations, and video recordings to show us characters we’d thought we’d never see again (in fact, a particularly poignant video recording let them show us a character again even though the actor who played him was by then deceased).

The ‘verse adds a few new methods, of particular note perhaps is holograms. Just off the top of my head, I could imagine some scenario where the captain stumble’s over some fragment of Book’s past (since Joss I believe has said he still wants to explain the Shepherd’s mysterious past), but Book has anticipated this and left instructions on a hologram for Mal (or someone else, perhaps?) to warn or protect them. This would allow us to see Book again, uncover his past, and have it affect the lives of the crew in the present. All without any amulets at all!

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Friday, August 11, 2006 7:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by lostdog:
I have heard a lot of opinions today and I love them all. Yeah, actually I thought everybody was going to die there for a moment or two in the movie..

And that is exactly why Joss did it.

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Friday, August 11, 2006 8:19 AM

DARKFLY

You've got to remember one thing if there's a prequel when would it take place cause for instance the comics do the in between bit between Firefly & Serenity so I don't think Joss would do that and before the in between bit is FIrefly so that only leave's the time before Firefly which would mean there's no Simon & River abourd Serenity not unless you see a bit more about how Simon got River out & seeing more of what the alliance where doing to River & show a bit about Book at the church showing his adventure's as a preacher(with some more hints to who he is),man that would make a prequel.

-------------------------------------------------------

Go to http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=19&t=22697 for more info!

Things are about to get interesting...Define interesting...Oh GOD oh GOD we're all going to die.

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Friday, August 11, 2006 8:28 AM