Male Female Imponderables-R.E.S.P.E.C.T. by msg

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"

me first!!!

EDIT: Now that I have been first to respond to a new Imponderable thread for the first time ever I feel like a real, true fair-dinkum imponderer!!! What're we imponderin' peoples...? Ah I see... it's up there isn't it... Thanks MsG!

I have been taunted and cruely treated by a co-worker... but not for my gender, it was because I had the audacity to require extensive time off after suffering a brain haemorrhage! I was just so selfish that he needed to take every opportunity to let me know what a malingerer I was and that a little thing like almost dying, losing my speach or the sight in one eye shouldn't be an excuse for bringing the team stats down...

Does it surprise you that I don't work there any more?

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Friday, August 25, 2006 4:22 AM

yeah for magdalena she's first

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Friday, August 25, 2006 4:23 AM

Can't say that I have had it happen to me personally. Being a male that doesn't happen too often. But I have seen it happen to a few of my female co-workers. Kinda annoys the h*ll out of me. I can understand it if the person is dumb or slow or something. that has nothing to do with gender and should not be classified as such.

Kelkhil

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Friday, August 25, 2006 4:23 AM

we's ponderin whether you've had an experience of someone ignoring your opinion because of your gender.

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Friday, August 25, 2006 4:29 AM

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"

I love you MsG - you're so kind and patient... and look - pretty fireworks! Actually I have seen some guys I trained with as a nanny struggle to be accepted in child care - there seems to be a stigma attached to being a male who wants to work with children!

The Wiggles, for instance are trained kindergarten teachers who couldn't get jobs because of the unease they encountered in the field, they were mostly in a band called the Cockroaches in the 1980s (yes, I saw them in the pub scene in my youth!) and then formed the Wiggles as an alternative form of utilising their Early Childhood qualification... Don't suppose they anticipated they'd be as famous as they now are!

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Friday, August 25, 2006 4:34 AM

I've noticed people get suspicious of a man who wants to be around kids...then there are all they jokes/mean comments about how guys aren't nuturing. DOn't you just love a paradox?

I had a vice principal that just had this" women are dumb" thing that grated at bit, especially since he's somewhat dim and seldom understood concepts without repeated explanations.

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Friday, August 25, 2006 4:35 AM

My daughter loves the Wiggles!

Kelkhil

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Friday, August 25, 2006 4:37 AM

I think every child loves them, and now that I know their history, I will try to be much more tolerant.

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Friday, August 25, 2006 4:39 AM

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"

So do I!! I met them a few years ago and they were wonderful! Really nice guys and very genuine! They get heaps of bagging but when they realised I was a nanny and a genuine fan (not taking the mickey) they relaxed and we had a pleasant time chatting, taking photos and they signed autographs and wrote messages for my niece! Anthony even drew a picture of Dorothy for me... er her!

As for men who think that women are a bit dumb and then dumb things down to explain them to us...

I've met my share of them... it is usually the non-perceptive and none-too-bright among them that have that attitude too I've noticed! Used to get that a bit when I worked in retail - back in my drama-student days...

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Friday, August 25, 2006 4:39 AM

ODDSBODSKINS

not because of my gender on the whole, although there is a bit of a thing at my work whereby the blokes do the restraint's and the physical side and the women do a greater proportion of the washin, cleaning and so on. do my best to work around that, but it does tend to mean you get a full workload AND more injuries

have been put down because of my age on occasion, oddly more often by elderly female nurses then male, never quite figured out why.

_______
jailbait.

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Friday, August 25, 2006 4:42 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by Oddsbodskins:
one of my favorite headfucks is that, how do you KNOW you aren't doing exactly that? how do you know what you see as reality is? how d you know you're not locked in a little room somewhere, dribbling quietly and drugged to high-heaven, and the entire world you see is just the fantasie's of your tattered mind? ^^

I sure hope not. Otherwise I'm not too fond of myself. Why wouldn't I put myself into a reality where I'm all having a great time 24/7, happily married, etc.?

As for having my views dismissed based on gender I guess I don't know. I've had my ideas dismissed before, but I've never felt like gender was an issue. I guess I always just assume it's because I'm young, a newer employee, or my idea just sucks.

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Friday, August 25, 2006 4:48 AM

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"

Hmmmm... coz you're 'jailbait'?

No seriously! - there are always going to be jobs that someone has to break the mold on! I once dated a nurse and he was so sick of the crap he got for being a nurse! He was on the maternity ward for a while but they moved him coz any male within sight of a labouring woman often came in for some of the 'this is all your fault you

arrogant

men!' abuse - it wasn't good for him or the midwives who were trying to keep the mother calm!

He eventually studied journalism and disappeared over the horizon... I wonder what became of him?

Well Goodnight one and all - I have to go to bed, busy weekend and it's aleady 12.45am - I feel like a kid who's parents are holding a social 'do' - "Why do I have to go to bed? Just when everyone is arriving and discussing things... Why do I have to miss out...??" *Little Magdalena sniffs and sulks all the way to bed while the guests drink the wine and eat all the kabana...*

Good night - love you all!

- Magdalena x x x

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Friday, August 25, 2006 4:49 AM

ESTHER

Here is a story from a friend of mine. His father studied to be a teacher in primary school. When he went to the first school after finishing university, he right away became the principal of the school. Why? Well, he was the only male teacher!

Well, that was
a) another time (1950s maybe?) and
b) Ireland

Hope, things have changed in the meantime. At least at my working place (tax consultant), they have. In my group: Manager, Senior Manager and Partner: female, Associate and Senior associate: male. Unusual, but true.

Esther

Love my captain!

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Friday, August 25, 2006 4:50 AM

AZHEA

Hasn't happened to me, guess I've been lucky.

I work at a place where the women outnumber the men about 5:1

*************************************************
I aim to misbehave!

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Friday, August 25, 2006 4:58 AM

LOSTDOG

5:1. I like those odds. I could use a job.

"I'll be in my bunk."

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Friday, August 25, 2006 5:06 AM

HUGS to all:) I have to bail. It's time for my hair appointment and then on to play with my beloved nephew and niece. I will return in about 7 hours. HOpe you guys have a ball today.

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Friday, August 25, 2006 5:11 AM

I had problems with a prof in grad school. In the ten years I've known him, he's graduated one female student successfully (and she hated him and had to lie to him so he'd sign her thesis. It was excellent research, he was just being a

about it!) He's had several woman students, but they can't stand him and leave early. No one seems to notice the pattern, it's so frustrating!

I did one paper and some fieldwork with him, and it's a nightmare. Nothing was done openly; it was just a continuing process of ignoring my opinions (even though I was brought in as an expert) and poo-pooing my input.

I don't think he does it knowingly, it's just something very ingrained in him, that women are helpers and not leaders.

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Friday, August 25, 2006 5:26 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I don't think he does it knowingly, it's just something very ingrained in him, that women are helpers and not leaders.

I have a friend like that. It gets obnoxious at times. Like he has some filter that kicks in when something is said by or about a woman that just turns it into something condescending or belittling.

Just last week a guy was inviting him to join a volleyball team and he said something like, "and luckily we already have two women lined up for our team". To which my friend replied, "well if we just don't put them in positions next to each other we should be able to cover for them." The other guy was like "What? I'm not worried about how well they can play. I was just worried about finding the minimum requirement of having 2 women per team." He does stuff like that all the time. I'm assuming in his head he turned what the other guy said into something like, "I'm just worried that we already have two women lined up for our team". Which is just scary that a person can have such a filter.

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Friday, August 25, 2006 5:32 AM

Good morning to all.

One hell of a day yesterday. Internet down, to tech.s at work to deal with the kids, and crap just exploded at home.

Much better now. I love my family and they know it, that is all that matters.

Tryin' to catch up here and at work. Be back shortly.

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Friday, August 25, 2006 5:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Oddsbodskins:
one of my favorite headfucks is that, how do you KNOW you aren't doing exactly that? how do you know what you see as reality is? how d you know you're not locked in a little room somewhere, dribbling quietly and drugged to high-heaven, and the entire world you see is just the fantasie's of your tattered mind? ^^]

Do you watch Buffy? Joss did an ep called "Normal Again" based on that same thing. I LOVED it, alhtough others didn't (it added a tiny piece of backstory that hadn't been mentioned for 6 seasons so people were upset). Check it out if you haven't seen it.

Okay, now I must go back and read all the posts I skipped just to say the above.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Friday, August 25, 2006 5:38 AM

ODDSBODSKINS

i got into buffy when it first aired (i was male and a teenager, i have no shame about my reason's at the time) but kinda drifted away from it when the scheduling on council telly got unpredictable, will back-track and look it up if i get the chance ^^

_______
jailbait.

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Friday, August 25, 2006 5:51 AM

TEACHDAIRE

Have I been put down at work cos of my gender? Hmm... let me think about it...

YES!!!!!

I work in an office full of women, and am constantly under a barrage of "you're not as good as us" comments. Mind you, I'm used to it by now. I was brought up by a rabid feminist single mother, and was indoctrinated almost from 5 years old (when my father left us) that men are basically scum and not fit to live on the same planet as women. Hell, what I get at work is probably cause to get them all fired for sexism, but it's nothing compared to what I grew up with.

-------------------------------------------------
For every battle honour, a thousand heroes die along, unremembered and unsung...

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Friday, August 25, 2006 6:00 AM

Odds, you shouldn't be ashamed of Buffy at all. It's Joss afterall. Just because it's not set in space and there are relatively few guns doesn't mean it was a chick show.

Co-workers: I think I stated b/4 that when I first started this job, the first thing a college intern said to me was, "So, when are you going to make me cookies?" I'm not sure if he was trying to be cute and charming (okay, he was cute, but there was NO charm whatsoever) but it was obnoxious. My reply was "I'll make you cookies when you get the CEO (who's my direct boss) to make you cookies." Heh. I get a little sensitive about crap like that.

Azhea, the ratio of female to male in my job is 8:1

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Friday, August 25, 2006 6:05 AM

ODDSBODSKINS

awww that's not what i meant, i was making a poor attempt at a joke based around the teenage male reason's i started watching it when it came out, hey, i was/am shallow, i'm okay with that

bit depressing to see sexism in the workplace is still the issue it is...

_______
jailbait.

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Friday, August 25, 2006 6:14 AM

Growing up with mostly women has given a different take on things than many people. Working in an office full of women and with teenagers really gets some folks thinkin'. I just wonder what it is from time to time. But I figure it this way. I have my own reasons for the work I do. I feel the persuit of honor and the chance to absolve my sins is much more important than anything any person can say or think about me. Someone who can say or think something negative about me or my reasons and not have the nuts to step up and tell me so will be ignored accordingly.
There should be no need for anyone to defend their choices if they feel right and just in their actions. Most of the negative things people feel about folks who choose a certain field of work that doesn't seem befitting of them are usually due to ignorance or a reflection of their own insecurities. Some have been traumatized in the past and have issues far reaching beyond their prejudices of certain people. And a very small amount of people know the truth about some folks and have genuine concerns for the people to which the services are being offered.
So much struggle there is with being a man in certain human services fields. Could go on for a while on this subject but I still gotta catch up on paperwok from yesterday.
I love my job.

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Friday, August 25, 2006 6:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Oddsbodskins:
awww that's not what i meant, i was making a poor attempt at a joke based around the teenage male reason's

D'oh! Sorry 'bout that. 'Twas the cute girls, eh?

I'm so used to hearing how Buffy is a stupid show that I immediately start defending it.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Friday, August 25, 2006 6:59 AM

PENGUIN

I go away for a blood-letting and you guys get all post crazy!

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Friday, August 25, 2006 7:08 AM

Teachdaire- that's awful. I spend a lot of time in my classes talking about those put down messages like boys are dumb, girls can't do strength related stuff. I think your mom was taking her hurt out on you...so not ok!
Anyway, brief stop before baby time. Continue the pondering of gender equity.
NV- glad it's ok HUGS

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Friday, August 25, 2006 7:12 AM

I loved Buffy too. Sure it started out as an Allison Hannigan thing but Joss's writing and story telling kept me there.

I still get the whilleys every time Nathan pokes out Xander's eye near in the last season. And Silence?? (the one with no talking) Those guys are still creepy. I loved it!

Kelkhil

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Friday, August 25, 2006 7:17 AM

ESTHER

Quote:
Originally posted by RugBug:
I'm so used to hearing how Buffy is a stupid show that I immediately start defending it.

I think, Buffy IS a stupid show - so what? I still love it, and I won't go into Kaurismäki and Ingmar Bergmann just to be okayed by other people. Someone who doesn't have the guts to admit, that there is some crap around, that you can really get into and enjoy, just is a coward and cannot be taken seroiusly.

Esther

Love my captain!

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Friday, August 25, 2006 7:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Teachdaire:
was indoctrinated almost from 5 years old (when my father left us) that men are basically scum and not fit to live on the same planet as women.

Hey Teach,

I like men. Men are not scum. Well, some are, but I try to avoid those ones.

Begin rant:
And not wanting to get rocks thrown at me, but I tend to blame the moms for the things that bug me most about men. For example: Why are there a plethora of young men that think someone should take care of them, cook for them, do their laundry, clean the house, make the bed, etc? Because their mom did it all for them. There are many over-nuturing moms who raise sons that are just helpless. They're doing their sons, or their son's future wives an injustice. Teach them how to be independent, how to cook, or in the very least follow a recipe, how to NOT put the red shirt in the load of white underwear and we will all be happier.
End rant.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Friday, August 25, 2006 7:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Esther:
Quote:
Originally posted by RugBug:
I'm so used to hearing how Buffy is a stupid show that I immediately start defending it.

Someone who doesn't have the guts to admit, that there is some crap around, that you can really get into and enjoy, just is a coward and cannot be taken seroiusly.

Wait, wait, wait...you think Buffy is crap TV?

Buffy is campy TV, but not crap. It was an excellent show, full of humor, horror, and heartache. Smart dialogue, good characters who grew and some amazing stories.

I'm no coward.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Friday, August 25, 2006 7:49 AM

Amen sister!

Hate bein' lumped in with all the whiney, can't wipe my own butt, make me cereal, give me money little bitches that can't make good on trying to be a man. I like for a woman to cook for me, but for some strange reason I love to cook. Now that I don't work with my hands as much I feel the need to do something constructive. What a better way then to cook a tasty meal for loved ones. Last tasty meal was Sunday. Teriyaki chicken with tons of bell and red peppers, snow peas, carrots, onions, steamed rice and spicy Char Sui sauce. All this after running around in the mountains and scouting rabbit spots for the fall.
Glad I did laundry Saturday.

ADD: Got lost in work for a moment. I blame my mom for alot of things, including some weird sense of resentment of her coddling. I love to be left alone now when things happen. But yesterdays events kinda changed my way of thinking a little. Fill in later.

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Friday, August 25, 2006 7:51 AM

ESTHER

Quote:
Originally posted by RugBug:

I'm no coward.

No you aren't, because you say, what you mean (and like). Cowards are the people, that talk about Oscar Wilde and Hemingway, and then sneak into their room and read Perry Rodan - without letting anyone know.

Buffy isn't Casablanca, O.K.. but it's enjoyable, and people, who do not dare to "sully" themselfs by trying it out, are just phoney (if that's the right word).

I think, that most people enjoy a little "crap" once in a while (sorry, maybe that word is too strong, but I don't know how to put it differenty), but if they do not admit that and put down other people, who just say what they think, that's what I call cowardness.

I mean, over here, a lot of people won't watch a movie, just because it's labeled "science fiction"! And if you are in a crowd discussing movies, and admit, that you like SF, you often can see that suddenly some of the people get very relieved and astonished (oh, there is another one?), but they would never have acknowledged it before. Now THAT'S crap!

Esther

Love my captain!

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Friday, August 25, 2006 7:51 AM

hrmm, weird double posty-ness

But now I'll use this space to say to NV: Yum!

And to Esther: Oh, you're talking that psuedo-intellectual nonsense. If it's not obscure and academic, it's fluff. Gotchya.

No, Buffy as a whole isn't Casablanca, but certain eps were pure genius and hold up as some of the best hours on TV. I, personally, think it holds up as some of the finest television ever on par with most highly-acclaimed shows.

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Friday, August 25, 2006 8:11 AM

Teachdaire - I may occasionally visit the rabid feminist world, but I do love men! Those women around you are unfortunate to have seen some bad ones, and they're missing out on much goodness.

It's so silly! Mean people are mean people, whether they have indoor or outdoor plumbing is beside the point!

Rugbug - I blame both men and women who accept these defined gender roles!! And especially those like the author of that ridiculous article in the last thread. Encouraging bad attitudes towards the opposite gender over gross generalizations and bad non-science. Men who think like that are just missing out on truly fulfilling relationships - as are the women that TeachDaire works with.

NV - don't be talking about food like that unless you brought some to hand out...

*m4p sits with fork and knife at the ready, a little drool on chin*

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Friday, August 25, 2006 8:29 AM

Just had one of the juciest peaches I've had in a while. And the smell of baked potato and chili is wafting from the kitchen.

I too am torturously hungry.

That, and I am an evil bastard.

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Friday, August 25, 2006 8:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
That, and I am an evil bastard.

I'll second that!

Can't get good peaches in New England.

*pouting*

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Friday, August 25, 2006 8:45 AM

CALIFORNIAKAYLEE

Put down by coworkers because of my gender: Never directly to my face, but behind my back plenty of times. The ratio of men to women in my profession is about 9:1, and that's better than it's been in years past. So you get fairly used to the idea of having to prove your skills to every new guy you work with.

Buffy: Loved the first three or four seasons, kinda fell away from it after that. It premiered my sophomore year of high school, so a lot of the events in Buffy's life lined up with mine (her 16th birthday was about a month before mine, etc.). Watched it all through high school and when I could my first year of college, but I really lost interest after Angel left. I continued to watch Angel off and on up to about the point when Darla got pregnant. I'd have to look at a calendar, but I think it was around that time that I started working overnights, so I stopped watching tv almost entirely. I watched the last four or five episodes of Buffy once I heard that the show had been cancelled, but couldn't quite get into the story. The first three seasons will always remind me of high school though, hehe.

~CK

You can't take the sky from me...

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Friday, August 25, 2006 8:50 AM

*Walks out of NVG's kitchen with chili on his chin*

Don't know what you're smelling but there ain't no food in there.

Me I love cooking. Just not too much time to do it as of late. Normally I will grill a couple of weekdays and then I try to make something good on the weekends.

Laundry. Not allowed to do it. When me and the wifey first started living together I threw some of her clothes in with mine. Now mind you I leard how to do laundry in the military. Everthing I can fit in one load. So long story short I shrunk one of her casmire sweaters. (I thought it looked hot on her afterwards

) Now I am not allowed to do laundry.

Kelkhil

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Friday, August 25, 2006 9:03 AM

Favorite quote from Nick Cage movie:

"I could eat a peach for hours."

And the best peaches in the 'verse come from California. See, some good can originate there.

ADD: Had many a lengthy laundry lesson from various females through the years. They just don't seem to understand that the utility clothes can be washed all at once. Then the socks. That is a load unto itself.

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Friday, August 25, 2006 9:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
"I could eat a peach for hours."

Whoa - good quote.

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Friday, August 25, 2006 9:31 AM

I do what I can.

Got too much movin' through my mind right now. I hate this time of day. Had lunch, did some work. Now mind has moved to, well, um, more stimulating things. Think I'll just sit here and think about baseball for a bit. Not stats. Just boring assed baseball.
Can anyone else gauge the time of day they have problems focusing because of that funny feeling way down deep?

ADD: Anyone see the Inara wallpaper posted by Azhea. Bad thoughts just went throught the roof.

ADD, Again: Old boss just brought a fella from the DOJ for a tour. First woman I ever had a real adult crush on. Tall Native/hippie chick who likes my art and whose poetry I enjoy. More bad thoughts. Time for chocolate.

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Friday, August 25, 2006 10:15 AM

PENGUIN

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
Just had one of the juiciest peaches I've had in a while.

Did you bring enough for everyone??

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Friday, August 25, 2006 10:18 AM

PENGUIN

Quote:
Originally posted by Kelkhil:
Laundry. Not allowed to do it. When me and the wifey first started living together I threw some of her clothes in with mine. Now mind you I leard how to do laundry in the military. Everthing I can fit in one load. So long story short I shrunk one of her casmire sweaters. Now I am not allowed to do laundry.Kelkhil

Great plan! Mess up and she won't let you do it!

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Friday, August 25, 2006 10:35 AM

I think there's more in the kitchen. Looking back at my previous posts, I think my mind is not in the right place.

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Friday, August 25, 2006 10:57 AM

Have a great weekend folks! I'm off to get my Chinese takeout. Mmm - tangerine beef.

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Friday, August 25, 2006 11:16 AM