Serenity and Profitability by Shiny

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Serenity and Profitability

POSTED BY: SHINY
UPDATED: Thursday, October 4, 2007 12:10
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VIEWED: 4344
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Friday, September 15, 2006 1:18 PM

Copied from an IMDB posting via Whedonesque. I make no assurances as to the accuracy of this, but it sounds plausible to me.

http://whedonesque.com/comments/11361

http://imdb.com/title/tt0379786/board/thread/53775296

I'll be bad...

A talk with Universal
by - TensersFloatingDisk 4 hours ago (Fri Sep 15 2006 11:20:32)

Greetings, all.
I was intrigued by some of the discussion of Serenity's marketing in some threads here a few weeks ago, and, as always, interested in the discussions of new paradigms, economic and otherwise, which it demonstrated. I do a lot of work in media theory and reception studies, so I put on my academic hat, waved my credentials, and got Universal on the phone.

You may recall that I promised that if I got any solid information about Serenity's performance, I'd relate it here. I am following through on that promise. Unfortunately, the one thing I can't do here is tell you the name of my source. After a brief discussion about how I planned to use the info (mostly in preparing for a new syllabus on media studies, possibly a follow-up article), I offered to cite my source simply as a "senior executive at NBC-Universal." You're going to have to trust me that by "senior," in this case, I mean extremely senior. I had thought I would get through to some minor flunky in a sub-department somewhere, and instead I landed a very pleasant phone interview with...well, someone who makes a lot more money than probably all of us. Combined. So the information is beyond solid.

We talked about a lot of stuff that means a great deal to my class and my academic work on how humanities disciplines interact with digital media, none of which would interest y'all very much. But I did also promise to let you guys know if I got any solid numbers.

Here are the facts:
Serenity's marketing budget was, in fact, in line with market standards for a film of its budget. That is, somewhat more than $30 million was spent on marketing, and while my source did not give me a more exact figure than that, he implied that it was not much less than $40 million. So any suggestion that this movie was somehow under-marketed is incorrect.

In addition, contrary to some previous interpretations of remarks by another Universal exec., only 10% of that budget was devoted to online marketing. In general, according to my source, even the most forward-thinking studios are only devoting about 5% to 10% of their marketing dollars to online and other digital media. That is certainly partially because online marketing is significantly cheaper than traditional venues, so you get more bang for your buck. It is also, however, because a number of legal issues arise when engaged in online marketing (such as the widely circulated "River Tam Sessions" video clips). Copyright can easily become an issue, particularly when, as in the case of Serenity, you have a large number of different entities with a stake in the material. Universal is one of many studios interested in, for example, providing online space for consumers to make their own video "mash-ups," or music video re-mixes, of popular movies and music, but they are having trouble negotiating all the necessary copyright releases.

Even with such limitations, Serenity's built in and net-savvy fanbase dictated that a higher-than-normal percentage of the budget would be spent on non-traditional and online marketing. However, that still constituted only about 10% of the total.

How did Universal feel about Serenity's box-office performance? Given the wide circulation of the "River Tam" videos, and significant online buzz generated for initial screenings, they were happy with the success of the initial launch. They felt that the online marketing worked well enough, and will pursue such methods in future releases, particularly those in genres (like sci-fi) which have a high percentage of net-conscious potential consumers. However, they were not particularly happy with the failure of that buzz to translate into wider numbers. I know some of the previously circulated articles already mentioned this, but I did get it confirmed. Net marketing is still seen as a very new, unpredictable field. Everyone is looking for the next "Blair Witch Project" effect, and nobody has figured out quite how to generate it yet.

So, has Serenity made a profit? Unfortunately, no. My source was quite clear about this. Counting all the costs and revenues to date, Serenity has not made back its investment.
HOWEVER
Universal has not, by any means "given up" on the property. All costs, other than additional printings of the DVD, and fractional marketing and distribution costs, have now been paid. Any additional sales translate into revenue, which may well propel the series not only into profitability, but into sequel-generating-territory.

I asked for clarification on this point, confessing that I was both a fan myself and asking on behalf of many other fans of the franchise. My source made it explicit: if we would like to see a sequel, we need to see to it in practical terms, by seeing that Serenity generates box-office revenue. Letter-writing campaigns, petitions, and similar "stunts" will have no effect. Universal would love to do a sequel of a succesful movie. They will not consider it if the initial movie does not generate more money than it already has. They like the movie. They're happy with it, even though it has not yet proven itself economically. They would be happy to consider a sequel, even one on the same scale: if the price is right.

I will try to answer any additional questions.

-- Your humble servant.

---

I don't need a gorram back-spaceship driver!!!

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Friday, September 15, 2006 3:00 PM

ANONYMOUS1

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
Copied from an IMDB posting via Whedonesque. I make no assurances as to the accuracy of this, but it sounds plausible to me.

Sounds plausible to me too.

Got 25 Browncoats? Find a theater? Screen Serenity! Serenity Screening Shindigs!

DVD sales.

Official merchandise.

Spread the word. More people find out about Firefly/Serenity--more Serenity DVD sales.

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Friday, September 15, 2006 3:39 PM

DAVESHAYNE

IMDB?

Shouldn't they be getting back to spreading Wonder Woman casting rumors?

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Friday, September 15, 2006 3:43 PM

TWITCH

Since Serenity is out of the theaters here, and since with one exception I stand about as good a chance of convincing one of the local theaters to screen it as Mal stands of becoming an admiral in the Alliance fleet, what forms of revenue would Universal respond to?

DVD sales and sales of official merchandise I can easily see. Do the digital downloads from Amazon translate into dollars at Universal? (Last time I checked I noticed the Firefly episodes ranked higher than episodes of 24!)

Did you get any feel for the kind of margin we're talking about? For instance, would DVD sales have to double before they would consider it in sequel-territory, or would it be something a little more reasonable than that?

What you write makes good sense. Petitions are all well and good, but companies like Universal really do have to worry about the bottom line, and the bottom line is a return on their investment. (Jayne would understand that much.) And yes, I'd like to help. I'm interested.

Thanks for taking the time to call Universal, and to post your findings here. I sincerely appreciate it.

-- Twitch

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Friday, September 15, 2006 5:05 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

Coincidentally , there was a story on the wires today about a recent film release , " The Illusionist " :

"The Illusionist" weaves magic at box office

Friday September 15 6:38 PM ET

It took a little magic and a lot of money, but "The Illusionist" has steadily moved up box office charts in recent weeks with the backing of an upstart distributor for a movie that Hollywood had refused to touch.

While heavily hyped major-studio movies such as the football drama "Invincible" open in 3,000 theaters in their first weekend then fade away, "The Illusionist" has emerged as one of those rare films that opens in a handful of venues and gains momentum week after week.

Its backers at the Yari Film Group credit the film's creative quality and critical success --

"The Illusionist" scored a 75 percent "fresh" rating on review Web site rottentomatoes.com -- as well as a guerrilla-style marketing campaign.
"In early screenings the film played through the roof, and you started to smell there was something special here," said David Dinerstein, a former studio executive hired by Yari to lead the campaign for "The Illusionist."

"The Illusionist," about a 19th-century magician (Edward Norton) and his love for a woman (Jessica Biel), debuted at the 2006 Sundance Film Festival looking for a Hollywood studio to scoop up distribution rights.

But at $14 million, the film's production costs exceeded those of most indie flicks. Sundance films generally are quirky and made for art houses, and their low budgets often mean sacrifices in picture quality, sets and costumes.

"The Illusionist" features a more mainstream story and is set in turn-of-the-century Vienna with lavish sets and costumes and well-known stars, including Oscar nominee Paul Giamatti.

PROBLEM SOLVED

Bob Yari, who in recent years has taken a real estate fortune and returned to his first career, moviemaking, said every major studio looked at "The Illusionist" and passed because it did not fit the mold of a typical independent film.

Yari Film Group is new to film distribution, but Yari is no stranger to Hollywood. His companies have made or co-produced more than 25 movies, including "Crash," which won the Oscar for best picture in March.

He also has been the subject of widely reported lawsuits and complaints by former partners who deride his business tactics.

Regardless of his legal troubles, Yari had a unique problem on his hands with "The Illusionist" -- a mainstream movie looking for distributors in the art-house market.
Conventional wisdom might have suggested that Yari dump the movie and cut his losses. But he decided to release it on his own and spend millions more on a marketing campaign that used preview screenings and other tactics instead of expensive television commercials.

On average in 2005, Hollywood's major studios spent $36 million to promote and advertise one film, according to the Motion Picture Association of America.

Independent distributors typically spend $5 million to $10 million, and that is only when titles become hits. Yari and Dinerstein would not say how much they spent on "The Illusionist," but their strategy is working.
This week after a month in theaters, "The Illusionist" will add 76 venues to bring its total to around 1,430 and boost its total box office revenue above $20 million.

It is no blockbuster by Hollywood standards, but for an indie film that earlier this year had no distributor, it is magic.

Reuters/VNU

It seems very relevant to this thread . My aim here is not to promote this film , although I have seen and liked it .

I think the article contains some quotes and marketing strategies that suggest some ways in which the Serenity marketing campaign could have been done somewhat differently , and perhaps some of these strategies could be put to good use in future outings of the Serenity franchise .

The point seems to me to be that " conventional wisdom " often doesn't quite work for the reason that it's , well , how should we say this , " conventional " . And that the film and distribution business is in flux and changing .

I'm still curious about sales of the Japanese-language versions of the Serenity DVD . Maybe someone here would like to research that for us . I feel that there are many aspects of Serenity and the Firefly-'Verse that appeal to the sensibilities of the Japanese pop culture and sci-fi consumer .

Keep the Faith . Share the Love . Feel the Joy !

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Friday, September 15, 2006 6:15 PM

DEVONNITE

Tensers and I have gone back and forth about a few things having to do with “Serenity”, In fact it is I to whom he is referring, when he speaks about “unverified claims”. Another story for another time, BTW Tensers I have more info about the Scotsman.com article. At times our discussions got a bit contentious, but he has said from the beginning that he was a fan of the movie.

Tensers was able to get information before I was, even when I had the inside track. He and I may not agree on everything, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt on this.

He could have twisted the numbers and sounded the trumpet of doom, but, instead he gave us information that, if true, would actually help us get to our goal of a sequel.

Time to push the signal. If Tensers is right, then we are on the verge of doing something that lots and lots of people said couldn’t be done. On the verge of “Doing the Impossible” once again,

Jerry was right about something, Serenity is not in the black yet, but, here’s us, on the raggedy edge. All we need are numbers now, numbers and dollars signs.

The time to hold is over, now it’s time to push the signal as far as we can, then push it some more. No more holding, it’s time to misbehave,

Jayne: Whoo! My John Thomas is about to pop off and fly around the room, there's so much tasty in here.

Wash: Would be you'd get your most poetical about your pecker.

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Friday, September 15, 2006 7:31 PM

ANONYMOUS1

Quote:
Originally posted by twitch:
Since Serenity is out of the theaters here, and since with one exception I stand about as good a chance of convincing one of the local theaters to screen it as Mal stands of becoming an admiral in the Alliance fleet, what forms of revenue would Universal respond to?

Heh! Know any other Browncoats? You need about 24 other Browncoats to convince a theater to screen a movie unless you find a Browncoat theater owner. I like to wear my Serenity Logo shirt when I see a movie--just to show the theater people there are movie going Serenity fans still out there.

Quote:
Originally posted by twitch:
DVD sales and sales of official merchandise I can easily see. Do the digital downloads from Amazon translate into dollars at Universal? (Last time I checked I noticed the Firefly episodes ranked higher than episodes of 24!)

Firefly is Fox property. Universal gets no money from it. But the Amazon downloads of Firefly hopefully lead people to the movie Serenity. Shiny, someone mentioned fff.net in the reviews on amazon unbox Firefly page.

I think Itunes has Serenity and later Amazon will be unboxing Serenity

Official Universal Serenity merchandise I've come across--there may be more--I just haven't seen it yet or I forgot to type it in my list.

Serenity movie:

Serenity Dvd-Widescreen
Serenity Dvd-Fullscreen
Serenity VHS-Fullscreen
Serenity UMD Video for PSP (Handheld Sony PSP Game Player)
Serenity HD-DVD

Books:

Serenity by Keith R.A. DeCandido (novel based on the motion picture screenplay)
Serenity the Official Visual Companion
Serenity Role Playing Game -book not just for RPGers-
Serenity: Out in the Black by Tracy & Laura Hickman New RPG
Serenity: Those Left Behind the Graphic Novel.

Music: Serenity soundtrack CD music by David Newman

Universal Official Serenity T-Shirts at the mall Hot Topic stores.

Online stores with Official Serenity t-shirts:

http://stylinonline.stores.yahoo.net
http://makeusmiletees.com
http://hottopic.com
http://www.80stees.com

Search for Serenity.

Serenity Movie Poster --you can buy on-line at allposters.com Link available on home page
of www.fireflyfans.net

Serenity Crew Poster --you can buy on-line at allposters.com Link available on home page
of www.fireflyfans.net

Serenity Zippo Lighter from Dark Horse Comics

Serenity Ornament (model) from Dark Horse Comics

pic from http://www.tfaw.com/Profile/Serenity-Ornament___217120

And there is now an official Serenity prop replica company who will soon be making a Mal and Zoe gun replica.

But this is what I want

“We’re also hoping to come out with a large scale, 16 to 18” model of the ship, light-emitting, spinning engine, very detailed. That’ll be an expensive project, that’ll be next year.”

http://www.serenitystuff.com/2006/09/06/new-licensed-serenity-props-fr
om-qmx/#more-995

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Saturday, September 16, 2006 4:05 AM

DEVONNITE

Just a BUMP

Jayne: Whoo! My John Thomas is about to pop off and fly around the room, there's so much tasty in here.

Wash: Would be you'd get your most poetical about your pecker.

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Saturday, September 16, 2006 5:02 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

This is pretty shiny information to have. It seems perfectly logical from a business standpoint, and it's good to know they hven't given up on our Big Damn Heroes!
*calculates how many copies of the movie she can buy*
Well, I can have an extra copy, and I could give a copy to this person, and another one to that person...
*wanders off, still talking to herself*

http://www.bigdamnthankyou.com - show Universal your gratitude!

You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection. - Gautama Siddharta

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Saturday, September 16, 2006 5:32 PM

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA

Doin' my part, I bought one today.

"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card

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Saturday, September 16, 2006 6:18 PM

RYANGOODMAN

One thing that it doesn't seem anyone else has mentioned is that Browncoats worldwide are probably going to go out and buy tons of copies of our BDM on September 30. Hopefully that'll give us a little nudge from the red towards the black. And from there, we just have to keep buying copies until Universal dubs us "sequel-worthy."

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/piedmontbrowncoats

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Saturday, September 16, 2006 7:03 PM

MENTISMORTIS

ok, so everyone i know is getting a copy of serenity for thier birthday and christmas and yule and president's day and martin luther king day. not to mention all the copies i'll buy for myself with the first edition, the hd edition, and all the special editions, super extra special editions, the director's cut, and whatever other editions they think to come out with.

hell, i've bought 3 copies of heathers, 4 copies of from dusk till dawn and numerous copies of other movies just because they kept coming out with boxed sets and new editions with more stuff on them. gotta have em. gotta. GOTTA.

have i mentioned that i'm a bit ocd?

so if all us browncoats start celebrating arbor day and flag day and whatnot with gifts of the BDM we should have ourselves a sequel in no time flat.

shiny.

rob

"Everytime a dog salivates, a behavioral scientist must ring a bell," Robert Hienlien, " I Will Fear No Evil"

You can't find your waitress with a geiger counter.
She hates you and your friends and you can't get served without her.

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Sunday, September 17, 2006 1:00 AM

ANONYMOUS1

mentismortis,

Don't forget to check if your local libraries have Serenity and Firefly the TV Series.

Most libraries have a form called a Purchase request form that you can fill out to ask a library to purchase things. But first check that they do not already have it.

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Sunday, September 17, 2006 5:32 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Or you can donate things to the library, too. I bet that's faster.
The 'versary is comin' up; let's flood the streets and libraries with Serenity!

http://www.bigdamnthankyou.com - show Universal your gratitude!

You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection. - Gautama Siddharta

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Monday, September 18, 2006 3:15 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Ok, so there are some questions as to the accuracy of this info and the sources. I can understand that. Sometimes though you just got to believe.

Like Book said, it's about faith, it's about believing. If anybody knows about believing, it's browncoats. We been keeping the faith so long we could probably get tax exempt status as a church. We believe because we love this 'verse and characters that Joss graced our lives with back in '02. It is belief that has us here, still reading and visiting these message boards, going to cons and buying any merchandise we can get our hands on. It's faith and love of this 'verse that keeps us going. Armed with those nothing can stop us, nothing is impossible. We've done the impossible a couple of times already. What's to stop us from doing it again?

Keep the faith browncoats. Hold the line! Keep converting those new people and keep pushing those Serenity dvds. Let's show the world why we are the best gorram fan base in the world.

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

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Monday, September 18, 2006 4:13 AM

KURYA

Can I be the head priest?
" The church of Joss... and the holy serenity, is given unto thee, for I am the Shepard to the flock of fuzzy-wuzzies.. "

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Sunday, October 1, 2006 9:15 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

*would be willing to be a fuzzy-wuzzy in such a church*

http://www.bigdamnthankyou.com - show Universal your gratitude!

We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow in sunlight. - Gautama Siddharta

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Thursday, October 4, 2007 12:10 PM

EBOLAOUTKAST

Greetings. I think I can assure you this is real. I'm just stopping by, I'm not a fan, but I was in disscussion w/tensers via private messages when this took place, and I thought you'd be interested to know this, since he really had no reason to lie to me.

Kay thanks, by.

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