Male and Female Imponderables--Delicate Sound of Thunder by Tristan

Chris- have you looked into those buddhist monks who can control their pain receptors?? Here's some info
http://www.wildmind.org/meditation/news/2006-08.htm
Anyway, I would agree that shortsightedness and a belief in their own superiority has led to the downfall of every major empire...I didn't mean that all countries had peace during history, more that very few of the people of that country had their day to day lives affected by it. Only the millitary people were really involved to any major extent in the wars...however, I can't speak for Japan as my history degree is medieval history with a specialization in Crusades Warfare.

Well folks, I am off to tutor the munchkins and then head to the gym ( where I will be careful and not lift weights and just walk on the treadmill) and then home. So TTFN

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 12:07 PM

COZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by SirFrancis:
...sometimes creativity {lives} on the edge of insanity.

So, there's a link between creativity and insanity? Huh.

*Strips naked, runs out through the snow to roll about in rose bushes.*

With apologies if I've trivialized an important notion. It's my nature: couldn't resist. I guess it's just that I happen to be comfortable in my own skin, which, comparatively, sounds kinda dull. It's also true that I rely heavily upon the humour of a situation.

***
Okay, so it ain't snowing here. Yet.

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 12:15 PM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:
To me, having control of your emotions, love, fear, pain, joy, etc., is a sign mastery and near-transcendence.

Might I recommend you work on controlling anger next?

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 12:32 PM

RUGBUG

Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:
It's fine that you disagree, but could you explain further? How is trying to be strong a weakness?

I will. And lest you think I'm ignoring you, I will tell you that it will be tomorrow, if I have time, as I am signing off for the day. Got other things to do right now.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 1:03 PM

LITTLEALBATROSS29

MSG -
to amswer your morning sickness question from before -it's like a really bad hangover.At least it was for me.
With my first I had not a day of it.All I wanted to do was eat.With Sean ,my younger one I was so sick that I lost weight & for some reason could only stomach pizza.
It normally lasts for the first 3 months,but I was sick until the day I had Sean.Truly every everyone's different,and so is every pregnancy.I know you must have heard that a million times,but it is really true.

I'm so excited for you.

Bryce
*******************************

I swallowed a bug.

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 1:15 PM

I have a lot of thoughts on this topic especially about children. I teach young children, and I usually get the children that don't make it in other classrooms. The school psychologist calls me the "Wild Child Whisperer."

When I first started teaching, I was against all ADD type medications until I saw one case that was dramatic. A child that was not able to learn because he was not able to focus on one thing long enough. It was very much like MsG's experience. With the medications, he started to read, write, and focus on topics; and he was able to retain information.

This opened my eyes, but I am very strong in my feelings that medication is not for all children. Too often, I've seen parents beg their doctors for medications for the child that is unruly for them. I think that some of those parents have a fear of disciplining their child because they want to be a friend to their child. They want to be liked.

I have found that consistent discipline with tons of praise is the best way to change a child's behavior. I am using the word discipline and not punishment. Very few of us actually learn from punishment. It usually teaches resentment and/or fear. I've notice several people have refered to parents that spanked as being wrong.

Each of us is a unique individual, and we can't use statements like: all medications are bad or all medications are good. We've seen enough people post on this thread that have shown that each person needs what is best for them. We need to remember to, "Do no harm." If a child turns into a zombie, then that medication is definitely not the right thing.

_______________________________
Mal: Saffron, you're pleasing, you're all kinds of pleasing, and uhh...it's been awhile, a long damn while, since anybody but me took a hold of my plow.

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 1:48 PM

Quote:
Chrismoorhead wrote:
It's fine that you disagree, but could you explain further? How is trying to be strong a weakness?

I'll try. You are strong in your beliefs, but the way you present them sometimes has a way of turning others away. Part of being human is our connection with other. If you are always striving to be strong, you will become one dimensional. It takes a stronger person to understand that it's learning more about our weaknesses that makes us a better person.

If you want me to put it in battle terms, its like the Trojan Horse. The people of Troy were strong and confident that nothing could come through their walls. The Greeks found their overconfident feeling of safety, and they were able to come up with a way to sneak in the city.

If you build this image of a stong confident person that can't be hurt (or enjoys pain - I don't recall your exact words), will you be finding love, companionship, trust, empathy, compassion, or any of the other joys of life?

_______________________________
Mal: Saffron, you're pleasing, you're all kinds of pleasing, and uhh...it's been awhile, a long damn while, since anybody but me took a hold of my plow.

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 2:30 PM

NVGHOSTRIDER

The search for mastery of the human feelings we experiece are detrimental to being human. Beware to anyone trying to do this. When the time comes that you wish to be truly human it is ten times harder to do so. And many experiences will be twice as intense. Human feelings are the basic elements of threat detection we have. Refining the treat detection is far more constructive then suppressing the feelings. And controlling your emotions isn't a brave or strong thing. Controlling your response is.
This should be the first rule of warfare: Exploit your enemy's strengths. Then they only have their weekness as a crutch.

Well. rambled enough. Goodnight everyone.

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 2:39 PM

NV,
WOW! Very profound. On those wonderful insights, good night.

_______________________________
Mal: Saffron, you're pleasing, you're all kinds of pleasing, and uhh...it's been awhile, a long damn while, since anybody but me took a hold of my plow.

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 3:17 PM

COZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:

This should be the first rule of warfare: Exploit your enemy's strengths.

Hubba wha?!

Has this got something to do with the (imagined) war between the sexes? I mean, does this relate to the cliched axiom that any thing (one) worth having is worth fighting for?

I suppose that I'm having difficulty with the concept of "enemy", in the context of gender related imponderables. Oh, and, relax: I'm merely trying to maintain a sense of consistency to the thread, yep.

***
Never fearful of missing a point.

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 4:18 PM

Cozen,
NVghostrider's comment was an answer to a question. We certainly hope there is no enemy. We need to be allies.

Now back to the imponderable thread. Thanks for steering us in the right direction. Since you raised the question, who would you fight for?

_______________________________
Mal: Saffron, you're pleasing, you're all kinds of pleasing, and uhh...it's been awhile, a long damn while, since anybody but me took a hold of my plow.

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 5:06 PM

JAMESTHEDARK

My family, end of sentence.

I don't connect well with people around me, and many of them wouldn't give a second look if I fell down dead on the pavement (really callous folks that you'll see in the two towns we've got). Truth be told, if I was given the duty to fight for any of them, I'd walk the hell away. Too much risk, not enough reward. With my family, I'd fight because... Well, I would.

You might wonder why I didn't include my friends in that? First of all, they can stand up for themselves, second of all, I've had a heavy handful drift out of my life ten times more easily then they shoehorned their way in, and thirdly, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to pull of the adrenaline-soaked, fury-fueled frenzy I could muster for my family on my friends' behalf.

Well, it's midnight, my head hurts, and I'm going to sleep. Ciao.

--------------
I ain't lookin' for help from on high. That's a damn long wait for a train don't come.

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:30 PM

CHRISMOORHEAD

MSG - Yes I have actually. It's partly the fact that my interest in warfare began with Japan, and therefore was heavily influenced by Buddhism, that I believe what I do about controlling emotions.

I can see what you're saying about the average joe not be effected by war, but I'd hesitate very much to say that was the case, either. The most direct impact on non-combatants, of course, would depend on where the war's being fought. Ancient and medieval militaries weren't above pillaging or using peasants as cannon fodder on many occasions.

I'd say the next biggest impact is resources. Militaries on campaign were not shy about taking what they needed from wherever they can get it from. This translates into starvation and punitive damages to those who weren't able to provide for the army in the first place.

The list goes on, from conscription (which doesn't happen all the time but brings the peasants directly into the problem) to dealing with sanitation issues. I'd say war has and does have a very real impact on all nations involved in their entirety, not just the military.

ZEEK - I never claimed to have already accomplished control. Sure enough, I'm as far away from it as anyone else, and if you've read a number of my other posts from other threads, I admit my temper to be my weakest point. Maybe you should point that high powered perception back at yourself if you get off on pointing people's faults out to them?

VERSEEXPLORER - I think my having said "I have a hard time understanding why you think it's immature, unless your actual qualm is with the way I think it's accomplished." is equivalent to your "You are strong in your beliefs, but the way you present them sometimes has a way of turning others away.".

So, for once I'm starting off on the same page as someone else. That's good for both of us.

I will never think of myself as perfect, and striving to master emotion is not equal to striving to master existence.

If I may quote Lao Tzu, "Mastering others is strength Mastering yourself, makes you fearless.", and, "He who knows others is wise. He who knows himself is enlightened.". Yes, I've read the Tao Teh Ching.

I really don't want this discussion to turn into who I am and what I want from life, so forgive me if I leave your final question unanswered.

NVHGHOSTRIDER - I just quoted Lao Tzu twice where he identifies mastering and knowing of yourself to make you fearless and enlightened, respectively. Are you saying you disagree with Lao Tzu?

Cause I certainly wouldn't hold that against you. I disagree with a great deal of things he's written, but it's up to each individual to take and leave what he will from teachers. I'm not aiming at suppression, only control. On that note, I can tell you what the first rule of warfare actually is: Know thine enemy. The second? Well, it seems that Lao Tzu and Sun Tzu are in agreement: Know thy self.

You must first know your enemy's and your own strengths and weaknesses, before you can know which to attack and with what.

[IMG]

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:26 PM

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"

Quote:
Originally posted by SirFrancis:
As far as the belief that the medications will inhibit creativity, or cause personality changes, I have not lost any creativity. I still write, design theatre sets, and act. And my personality is more truly my own. When I was untreated for the BiPolar, there were times when I was a spectator in my own head. Not in control of what I was saying or doing. With the medications, I am more truly myself. So if that is a change in personality, I welcome it.

there is a special place in Hell for people who talk at the Theatre.

Firstly Hi Sir Frances (Bacon I presume) I don't think I have 'talked with you before... and from one thespian to another... welcome!

I too suffer from depression - I think I have talked about this before, but if started after a serious illness at the age of 29 and in retrospect I had signs that i was vulnerable to this disease prior to that. I too am creative and when I finally had a minor break down after a year of poor health and ever increasing depression I welcomed the opportunity to try medication - I have never looked back.

I put this part of your post in because it says what I was trying to figure out how to say in my mind whilst reading through everything here - gosh you guys go for it when I go to bed!!

I am lucky in that I had few, or no, side effects - when I was first on the meds I was put on and that the first ned I tried seems to be the one that works well for me - I know people with various forms of depression/anxiety disorders who have tried numerous and multiple drugs before finding one/a combination that works for them. I had a few minor side-effects at first... funnily enough loss of libido was one that diminished but wasn't an issue since I was too ill and 'disconnected' to think about having a relationship at that time...

I have described the worst period of depression as if I was working hard to do a passible impersonation of myself... trying so hard to look for my cues, react as I felt was expected of me and laugh as if I actually enjoyed things! It was a surprise to reconnect with aspects of my personality that I had forgotten existed prior to my initial illness and subsequen sprial into depression. I still think I look 'blank' in photos of me during this period - whether I was 'smiling' or not...

I am still creative, more clear headed, have a better memory (yes, depression affects your memory a lot!) and yes, in case none of you noticed... I have a healthy libido!

so I would not return to the bad old days for anything.

I recently mentioned to a friend that it was like having asthma - if you are asthmatic you monitor your condition, and look after yourself accordingly. With depression it is a lot like that - I excersize my mind to be positive in relation to myself and talk things over when I feel 'stuck' or 'trapped' in a situation... I have lots of good friends in real life as well as here (I love you guys

) and I adjust my medication, with doctors knowlege, if/when it becomes nesc. Just as if you had a chronic lung condition you have to be prepared for the 'not-so-well-times' as well as the good ones!

Thank you for bringing all this up - it has been a really good opportunity to talk over something that is dear to my heart as I feel 'demystifying' mental illness of any sort is really important in ourt society!

Also I have been richly blessed as a result of having had depression. I have made deep connections with others suffering with similar illnesses... and have been privileged to be there for those coming to terms with it too...

Love you - sorry for the ramble -

- Magda x x x

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 9:04 PM

Quote:
Magdalena wrote:
Also I have been richly blessed as a result of having had depression. I have made deep connections with others suffering with similar illnesses... and have been privileged to be there for those coming to terms with it too...

Magda, you are an inspiration. I do believe we go through challenges in life to learn how to balance our lives and also to be there for others in similar situations. I am thankful that you were able to find a way out of the depression.

_______________________________
Mal: Saffron, you're pleasing, you're all kinds of pleasing, and uhh...it's been awhile, a long damn while, since anybody but me took a hold of my plow.

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 9:38 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by SirFrancis:
As far as the belief that the medications will inhibit creativity, or cause personality changes, I have not lost any creativity. I still write, design theatre sets, and act. And my personality is more truly my own. When I was untreated for the BiPolar, there were times when I was a spectator in my own head. Not in control of what I was saying or doing. With the medications, I am more truly myself. So if that is a change in personality, I welcome it.

I just wanted to comment on this and say I think it is those misdiagnosed medications that lead to a squishing of creative thought. And I know there are things that at times require medication, sometimes even permanent medication, but folk should not think everything is like that. If you, say, have chronic depression and don't do anything about it other than taking a pill, you are not going to get better. As DTH said, sometimes you need a push to get out of it, but then you can work on the cause and hopefully you won't need a chemical push again.
I have been depressed and I have beat it on my own. There were some lingering effects and I found (eventually) the proper homeopathic remedy for me, and that pushed away the lingering effects. I would say that was an instance where I required some outside help, even if it wasn't the currently traditional or totally acceptable form of outside help. It worked for me and I was happy again, I had no problems or side effects. I imagine that, much as with homeopathy, the right medication is important to find, carfully check and diagnose, and that then it will help. The problem I have right now is that many doctors seem keen to just hand out meds and see if it works, which is wrong.
I read a very interesting article about a year ago about the thin line between creative genius and madness. There actually is a connection. There's some kind of divider in your brain, and when it's thin you think creatively and 'outside the box' so to speak. You just see a little bit differently. When it's gone, however, you see so totally differently that you are insane. Interesting, eh?
And yeah, what nvg said. Master your response, and you will master yourself. Hard to put it better than that.

http://www.bigdamnthankyou.com - show Universal your gratitude!

Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared. - Gautama Siddharta

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 10:05 PM

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"

Hey Sweet Phoenix Rose! I probably should have mentioned that I did gain some relief from St. John's Wort, as is a friend of mine at present, but ultimately it was not enough... also I seek counselling when I need to in addition to having close friends to talk with... I did not take the medication alone - I was thoroughly diagnosed by my wonderful doctor who continues to support me and give me sound advice - both emotional and medical at times, as well as valuable coucelling when I really need it.

I also have a friend who has been taking St John's Wort and is finding it is not as effective as it previously was, and, despite also having regular councelling she's nearing a stage where she is considering medication. My advice to her has been to listen to her doctors' advice, ask lots of questions, raise her concerns and if she feels she is not being taken seriously then find another doctor - I have an awesome one and I am very grateful for that!

Thank you so much for your comment VX! You are so like me in your shiney attitude! It sometimes surprises folk that I do suffer from depression, because I hide it really well and generally have a very positive attitude to life... but this is not about attitude alone and that is important to understand. It is sometimes scary opening my mouth and telling people that I suffer from this illness, and the responses are varied, but rarely the judgemental ones I fear! Mostly it's almost relief that they can speak openly themselves about their/sisters/husbands/sons/dughters/parents..etc struggles with depression with someone who is open and understanding of the situation... that is when I realise there is a very positive aspect to being able to draw on my own experiences - even though I would not wish them on my worst enemy... not even that F*X executive!

Thank you again VX

love you - Magda x x x

I also meant to thank MsG for sharing her experience - that gave me insight too!

and really everyone here who is thoughtful and honest about their own life experiences - I am a better person for knowing you all!

Love again - Magda x x x

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 10:10 PM

EMMARIGBY

I find depression a very interesting subject. Quite a frustrating one in my family though. My mum used to suffer from severe depression a couple of years ago and my dad's response was to tell her to stop being so silly and snap out of it. Even when I tried to explain to him that a bit of understanding would help her he refused to acknowledge the problem. I got the distinct impression that the whole subject terrified and baffled him for some reason.

What worries me is how many of my friends are or have been taking antidepressants. Out of the five people I count as close friends 4 are/ have been on meds. That's an alarming statistic. Is it because I tend to be attracted to senitive and unusual people who are more likely to get depressed? I don't know.

___________________

Hissssssssss!

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 11:08 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Hi jie-jie!

Since you seem to be doing well, I have no doubt that you're doing what you need to do.
Hey, you should head to Haven. Neko and I are hiding over there

http://www.bigdamnthankyou.com - show Universal your gratitude!

Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared. - Gautama Siddharta

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 11:29 PM

EMMARIGBY

Um, where is Haven?

___________________

Hissssssssss!

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 11:33 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I'll PM the info to ya, Emma

http://www.bigdamnthankyou.com - show Universal your gratitude!

Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared. - Gautama Siddharta

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 3:36 AM

TRISTAN

Morning, all.
Today is promising to be somewhat busy IRL...so if this thread gets too long...well, y'all know what to do!

Glad to see everyone here! I would love to comment on some of these posts, but it'll have to wait until I can get a break. Y'all be good, and I hope to talk to you today!

______________________________________

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 3:48 AM

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"

Morning Tristan - it's almost my bedtime but I'll be around for a little while...

I so dislike that the best discussions start when I go to bed! I think I need to start working night shifts... but then I wouldn't see PR! ... and there are a few more Aussies on the site these days!

Good morning to you all as you wake up now!

Love, Magda x x x

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:04 AM

Morning all...wow we have really gotten into deep thought recently and I hope no one minds if I lighten up a bit with a frivolous imponderable. Well not that frivolous. According to recent studies, students are more successful in a single gender environment. So PONDER: Would you have prefered to go to a single gender( i.e. all girl's school or all boy's schools)school or if you've been do you think it helped you academically? and as a corollary, do you think you learn better from teachers of the same gender?

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:10 AM

SIRFRANCIS

Magdalena and Phoenixrose,
It is nice to "meet" you both.

I do agree that there is a culture of "give me a pill and make everything better". This comes from both patients and doctors. Additionally there are many who believe that just the medication will solve all the "problems". Perhaps that approach will work in some instances. I can only speak from my own experiences with Bipolar disorder. Everyone has their own path to wellness.

Personally the medication is only one part of the treatment. In order to effectively manage my Bipolar, there is mood charting (tracking myself to see if there are indications that things are getting out of balance), learning coping tools and strategies, plus support groups. There is also regular contact with a therapist. In addition to all of this there is education. Educating myself about this disorder, it's manifestations, and the new treatment options. All of these things give me the tools to manage and optomize my life, each part is important.

Will I be on medications for the rest of my life? Probably. Will I be on the same medication "cocktail" for the rest of my life? The research says probably not. So it is the reason for the self knowledge and vigilance. Is this the solution for all mental disorders? No.
This is the path that works for me.

P.S. the Sir Francis comes from the role I am playing currently in "Charley's Aunt".

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:22 AM

SIRFRANCIS

According to recent studies, students are more successful in a single gender environment. So PONDER: Would you have prefered to go to a single gender( i.e. all girl's school or all boy's schools)school or if you've been do you think it helped you academically? and as a corollary, do you think you learn better from teachers of the same gender?

_________________________________________________
I did attend an all male high school. Did It help academically? I would say yes, not because it was all male, but rather due to the smaller class sizes. One recieved more individual attention.You could not hide in the back of the class, so you were forced to participate, and complete all assignments, ect.

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:49 AM

KELKHIL

Still gotta catch up with the tread.

SirFrancis - to answer your question. I would have loved to go to an all girl school

...oh wait. I have to be the same gender eh? well there goes that idea!

Kelkhil

The Shirtless Forsaken

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:55 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:
ZEEK - I never claimed to have already accomplished control. Sure enough, I'm as far away from it as anyone else, and if you've read a number of my other posts from other threads, I admit my temper to be my weakest point. Maybe you should point that high powered perception back at yourself if you get off on pointing people's faults out to them?

See this is a problem for getting along with people. You get all defensive. Learn to laugh and joke around. Not that I was kidding. You can also just take constructive criticism sometimes.

Quote:
Originally posted by msg:
So PONDER: Would you have prefered to go to a single gender( i.e. all girl's school or all boy's schools)school or if you've been do you think it helped you academically? and as a corollary, do you think you learn better from teachers of the same gender?

Oh heck yeah I would have liked to go to an all girl's school. It would be like being a kid in a candy store (just watched this week's How I Met Your Mother). I suppose you mean I'd have to go to an all boy's school though. In which case NO I wouldn't want to do that. I don't see that helping me academically at all. What it would do is stunt my social growth. How is a person supposed to learn to interact with the opposite sex if they're totally segregated from them? Also I don't think it matters about a teacher's gender. Teaching style is much more important than gender.

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:59 AM

WHITEFALL

Hmm.... personally, I'd hate to go to an all guys school. I could launch into a whole spiel about it, but I doubt this surprises you guys who've heard my previous spiels. As for teachers, I'm just plain more comfortable around women, though that's not to say I've never had good male teachers. I have, it's just that, say on the first day, I'm slightly more apprehensive about the males. Does that seem right to you?

I'm so sad, i'm not going to be teh homecoming king! NOOOOOOOO!!!! Meh, i guess i'll just have to come to terms with the fact that... most of the people I know arent seniors. Oh well. /shrug.

Maybe someday I'll figure out what homecoming actually is. Huh.

edit: To what Zeek said, yeah, of course teaching style is really important too.

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon.

"We take all the money we got saved right now, we could maybe buy a moderately sized gerbil." -Mal

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 5:23 AM

SHINYKITTEN

heya all, i know this thread is REALLY long, and so a new one will be created soon...so not really expecting anyone to actually read this, but hey.

referring back to the very earlier issues, while i don't have a lot to say about the meds stuff, seeing as i never had to go through that, (while i spend most of my childhood sick and in hospital, it was mainly cause my damn lungs kept being bastards and not working)

i do however have soemthing to input about the whole discipline/violence thing.
while i wouldn't say i was 'beaten' as a child (not really having a way to define that), i was physically punished A LOT when i was a kid.
both my parents had really bad tempers, and they exploded on me and my older brother all the time. my dad would 'beat' the crap out of us with a big black leather belt, and once he threw me into a door so hard the glass window in it broke and covered me in glass.
my mum would just completly lose it and come after us- just hit us where-ever on our bodies with her hands or whatever was around (if you've ever had a thick, solid wooden spoon broken across the back of your legs, you'd know what i'm talkin' about)...she would turn her rings around so the settings on them would hurt us.

it wasn't all the time, but often enough that it left a lasting impression...i agree with (i think) PR, who said that this kinda stuff only leads to bitterness(?)
i hate my parents, and have ever since i can remember. theres other stuff as well, but the 'discipline' they used certainly is a major factor in my loathing for them.

(in later years they both found religion, and so resorted to 'bible-bashing' us instead...in some ways it's worse.

)

while kids need discipline in their lives, to give them straucture and rules, i definatly vote for non-violent methods. they can be effective, if used properly, well and consistently.

anyway, just my two cents...

oh, and as for the all girl school thing...i would have had an even worse time in school if i didn't have my guy friends to hang out with! they at least embraced the fact that they were total geeks (my kind of people) unlike the girls who, even though they were TOTAL geeks, still tried to 'fit in' with the cool kids.

*********************
If Cavemen and Astronauts had a fight....

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 5:28 AM

zeek- so do you think Marhsall will take Lilly back? I do because he truly loves her and she made a mistake and hurt him and herself, but I think she's really sorry and really wants to fix it...btw I love how they've left Ted and Robyn the way they are and not made them psycho lovey or something...and Barney is the devil!!

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 5:29 AM

ok I will start a new thread
Hang on
Here's our new home
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=24285

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 5:41 AM