Why Wash is 100% alive and mostly well. by pastorbadger

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Why Wash is 100% alive and mostly well.

POSTED BY: PASTORBADGER
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 23:57
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 68087
PAGE 6 of 6

Monday, July 31, 2006 1:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pinballwizard:
Urg, now we have Serenity 2: In Search of Wash. That's the last thing i'd wish on anyone. Unless, they tie it in with finding out Books past, cause therre's no way he's coming back.

No, I am not insane, I am crazy. Thank you for asking.

Star Trek III: Search for Spock. Except with less of the Vulcan katra-transferrence issues. And less of the blowing up of planets, and less of the total angst of "YOU KILLED MY SON!"
Yeah. I'm just really not seeing Wash as alive. In the Serenity Visual companion, there's a pretty graphic image of what they wanted. Also, has noone consider this: They would have to remove the giant telephone-pole-sized-spike from not only Wash, but the seat and Serenity herself.

I'd like to believe Wash is alive, and that's not only because of the guy on the old official Browncoat board with that name. (Ah, we had so much fun in the old chatroom. Universal, this taking down of the site had to be a fault.) But like I can't bring myself to believe in a God, I just can't quite ged my head around all the "if"s and "then"s and "it's possible"s.

Later, there will be a way for me to figure out how to get an image of the Wash is impaled scene up. And with that will come more arguments.

/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\
May not be smart, and it may not please you, but you're definitely gonna see what I have to say.

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Monday, July 31, 2006 4:45 AM

FIZZIX

Quote:
Originally posted by Eso:
Quote:
The memorial thing is wrong too. Sure Book's body might not be there, but we know darn sure Mr. Universe didn't up and leave. At the very least they probably burried his buffy bot if the Reavers somehow ate him. So, there were bodies to be burried. Besides I think they probably did bring Book's body onboard all Tracy style.

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Ok.. First of all .. there were bodies there. No one ate Mr Universe or his wife-bot.. or Mal couldnt have gotten back to the same hallway where everyone was layed up hurtin'. Secondly they did't bring Book's body with em Tracy style.
In the bloopers reel, Mal telling the crew after getting his big damned idea from Operative. The words were,"Zoe, you and Simon get these bodies
together."
"We got time for grave diggin cap'n?"

"Youre gunna rope em together, five or six right across the nose of the ship. Put Book front and center, he's our friend we should honor him"

"Jayne try not to steal all thier $hit. Kaylee?, go find that kid takin a dirtnap with the baby jesus, we need a hood ornament"

I believe that is a close rendition. Anyway Book came along for the ride on the nose of Serenity. Course, the only thing left of the preacher were his skinny bones, but that is beside the matter.

Let's make this clear, it's a blooper. He ran with it, because it was funny. It isn't in the script. It didn't happen. We don't know whose bodies they so ingraciously but needfully stole.

Quote:
In the Pilot.. the EMP was NOT discussed. It was a magnetic grappel.

In the script, it's "an electronic pulse."
Close enough for us to guess that they mean EMP.

/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\
May not be smart, and it may not please you, but you're definitely gonna see what I have to say.

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Monday, July 31, 2006 5:09 AM

ENGINEANGEL

I'd just like to point out that in the original script of Serenity, Wash didn't die. So if joss was planning for two more movies as well, and he let wash have a spike (or whatever people are calling it) poked through him, he must have had some plan to keep everything moving. I still think wash is either alive or will come back to the story (and not in just flashbacks) but i made my point and opinion way above in the mass of answers in this thread, so just wanted to add this and it'll be my last word here.

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Monday, July 31, 2006 5:41 AM

JAMAICANBATMAN

way to go! A possible way for Wash to come back! But if this doesn't happen now im comin for you!

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Monday, July 31, 2006 5:58 AM

HANS

In my mind Wash is absolutely, inarguably dead.

He is dead in a dramatic sense because it would be extremely cheap and phoney for him to have a miraculous recovery. I would never trust Joss again if he brought Wash back to life.

He is dead in a medical sense because HE HAD A SPIKE THE THICKNESS OF MY ARM SLAMMED THOUGH HIS CHEST!!!! How can anyone believe he lived through that?

Some have argued that the ship that fired the EMP was an Alliance ship, and thus they were first on the scene. I don't believe it, but even if it was we know that the ships that fired the spikes were definitely Reavers. We saw Reaver ships floating behind Serenity, and after the crew took off to the Black Room the first group to follow them was...Reavers. I hardly believe that they would be performing emergency surgery on Wash.

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Monday, July 31, 2006 11:03 AM

GRRRARG

Well, as far as I know - no one has raised a meta-argument about Wash. Not plot holes or clues, but the fact that this is a Joss Whedon production.
So, 2 things.

a. Its hard to stay dead in a Joss Whedon show. Now sure, this isnt Buffy, there isnt any 'most powerful Wiccan in North America' to zap anyone back to life (I still wince at the thought of that line), but we know the tech exists to take all the organs out of a person and then put new ones in and he's walking and talking and trying to get some with Kaylee. Its the ol' Arthur C. Clark quote "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
b. Sad to say it, but Whedon isnt above pandering to his demographic - Willow,once again - is magically changed into a pagan lesbian without any prior plot notification. Pandering to two major demographics. Firefly fans cant seem to wrap their heads around the basic idea that people die - even the ones who dont deserve it. I think its damned ballsy to kill off two main characters - adds realism - but theres enough flak from the fan base that Wash might just pull a Buffy and shuffle back to the mortal coil.
Bah.

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Monday, July 31, 2006 11:09 AM

FIZZIX

Quote:
Originally posted by GrrrArg:
I think its damned ballsy to kill off two main characters - adds realism - but theres enough flak from the fan base that Wash might just pull a Buffy and shuffle back to the mortal coil.
Bah.

Um, maybe not the thread, but Book never felt like a major character to me.

/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\
May not be smart, and it may not please you, but you're definitely gonna see what I have to say.

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 5:09 AM

ARAMINA

This is a very interesting thread. While I agree with those who think the theory it is discussing is far-fetched, I see nothing wrong with developing such a theory.

I'm writing a Masters thesis on the death of Wash and the effects it had on the fans. Something I will be particularly looking at are the ways that fans responded to the death; studying the ways fans express their feelings being an important factor.

What would be interesting to me is knowing why PastorBadger took the time to write out his theory and reply to the responses to it, and why everyone else has contributed to this thread.

If you would like to tell me your own experiences of discussing Wash's death, please do respond to this post or drop me an e-mail.

When I think of an interesting signature you'll be the first to know.

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 6:01 AM

HOPERULES

An entertianing theory. Could be in the sequal, the next comic book, or the forthcoming novel, if they ever happen.

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Monday, October 9, 2006 6:35 AM

PASTORBADGER

Your address and e-mail are apparently deleted by the server.

Any study on the effect Wash's (apparent) death might have had on Firefly fans would be incomplete without a complete understanding of the fan culture in general. Something almost exclusive to the science fiction genre, and lop-sidedly American. (After all, Tom Baker (Dr. Who) once told me he could at least go to the park in England.)

It's fertile ground, but isn't the scope a little large for a thesis? After all, the reaction to Wash's death is hardly unique. Think how much fuss the Trekkers made when they killed Kirk in "Generations"?

Quote:
Originally posted by Aramina:
This is a very interesting thread. While I agree with those who think the theory it is discussing is far-fetched, I see nothing wrong with developing such a theory.

I'm writing a Masters thesis on the death of Wash and the effects it had on the fans. Something I will be particularly looking at are the ways that fans responded to the death; studying the ways fans express their feelings being an important factor.

What would be interesting to me is knowing why PastorBadger took the time to write out his theory and reply to the responses to it, and why everyone else has contributed to this thread.

If you would like to tell me your own experiences of discussing Wash's death, please do respond to this post or drop me an e-mail.

When I think of an interesting signature you'll be the first to know.

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Monday, October 9, 2006 1:07 PM

ARAMINA

Thanks for letting me know about the address, don't know what's up with that.

I'm well versed in the area of fan culture, and have written many papers on the subject before.

I am using Wash's death as a case study because the fandom is relatively small and easy to manage. Firefly fandom is also much more recent, and the events are 'fresher' in people's minds. The internet also means that I have more access to fan reactions and interactions, which have been archived since before Serenity to the present. Being a fan myself I also have more of an understanding of the text involved.

This is simplification, obviously, but you get the gist.

When I think of an interesting signature you'll be the first to know.

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Monday, October 9, 2006 7:16 PM

TERRI

Quote:
Originally posted by GrrrArg:
Sad to say it, but Whedon isnt above pandering to his demographic

And thank God for it. Because certainly the fanboys would still be all up in arms about Buffy dying at the end of the eighth season (or whatever season it was she sacrificed herself in).

Of course Wash is going to be back, in addition to the fact that Alan is signed on for two more movies, the fact remains that Wash has to come back for the simple fact that I really really want him to.

To address the physical concerns of Wash's reappearance, sure, sure, it could happen. Anybody who argues that it couldn't happen is an idiot because anything 'could' happen. The question is weather it did happen. And that my friends is the rub.

You see, some people, like Citizen, will argue that he is dead, not coming back and it will never be. And some people, like our fair thread creator here, (sorry, your name escapses me) will say that it is pure and simple that he's alive and well. But here's the kicker; Joss Whedon is the only one who knows. Well, him that the bear that he tells his secrets to at night, and he ain't talking.

So, the point of this is not to get into a petty discussion about probablity and distinctive weight ratios (whatever that means), it's when you brush your teeth, put on your Kaylee footie pajamas, and snuggle up with your River Tam plushee, what will ease your mind enough so you can snuggle down in your Spongebob Squarepants brand down comfortor? For me, I like to think of Wash as perpetually alive. Just cracking wise and making love until the end of time. Do I have any backing for that? No. Do I have any data or charts? No. Does the first message in this thread make me feel better? Yes. Will it work for you? Not necessarily, but raining on my parade and poking holes in the theory won't make you feel any better. So, just find what works for you, and tuck it under your pillow. Cause, for now, it's all we have to work with.

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Monday, October 9, 2006 7:54 PM

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA

Quote:
Originally posted by Terri:
River Tam plushee

Where can I get one?

"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card

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Monday, October 9, 2006 8:25 PM

USMCHELLRAISER

I know it is a sin to not read every last scrap of a thread before posting, but well, here I go mentioning my .02

1) The BDM was so that Firefly could be resuscitated, I thought. Joss could just write around the movie like it never existed. A sequel could take place before it, a second season could take place before it, hell, it could just be forgotten (STORYLINE-WISE ONLY!!!)

2) Point of odd fact regarding hat people can survive- watch the movie "Blackhawk Down". In real life, the PFC who had an RPG lodge in his abdomen, and the Delta Operator who was blown in two by an RPG that hit some ammo cans he was standing on (in real life- in the movie he was in an MTVR 7-ton truck , I believe) both survived their injuries. They were both sort of "allowed" to die because there was no way in hell the medics could replace the organs that were pulverized. Kowalewski(RPG), was left in a pit because he had UXO(unexploded ordinance) in his abdomen. He hemorraged to death in that pit some time later. Martin, the Delta Operator, who was blown in half, not only made it back to the base alive with essentialy nothing left of him from the midsection down, but was able to speak and grip the hand of the doctor who worked on him. Too bad that it just doesn't seem believeable, even though miracles do happen, and thus would look bad in a movie/t.v. show.

3) Quik Clot sucks. I take it out of my IFAK and throw it in the bottom of my pack, take two extra pressure dressings, a cravat, and a safety pin instead. Also, bungee cords make good tourniquets, even though they do damage the tissue somewhat. It is cool watching it work on water though- just make sure your face is upwind of the powder(!)

Man, that was a really trivial post- hmph. Well, better next time.

"...let's not ruin an otherwise pleasant day with unnecessary bloodshed..."

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Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:58 AM

ARAMINA

Hey PastorB, I had your e-mail, but it seems to have disappeared into the ether when I tried to move it out of my junk mail, damn thing!

Any chance you cold send it again?

When I think of an interesting signature you'll be the first to know.

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Saturday, November 4, 2006 7:33 PM

KELAI

Reviving this thread revives the Wash-lover and Wash-hope in me. Discuss more folks.

--

//breathe today So many lies s w i r l i n g
All A R O U N D You
you're S U F F O C A T I N G
the e m p t y shape in Y O U
s t e a l s your b r e a t h

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Wednesday, November 8, 2006 10:57 AM

ARAMINA

I'd be interested to know whether anyone who contributed in the early stages of this thread has changed their opinion on PastorBadger's theory?

When I think of an interesting signature you'll be the first to know.

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Wednesday, November 8, 2006 11:51 AM

BLAZESOLO

Not me, just let me know when we're gonna leave ta go rescue Wash from the evil Alliance.
Here I sit upon the pooper about ta give birth to an Alliance trooper.

I wear a blaster under my Browncoat

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Wednesday, November 8, 2006 1:16 PM

ZZETTA13

I'm still with PastorBadger on this.

btw Wash ain't dead. I just saw him on CSI last week and there were a number of sightings at Dragon Con. If that isn't proof what is?

Z

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Wednesday, November 8, 2006 4:38 PM

GREENFAERIE

Oh, just stop it. Wash is dead. He may appear in Serenity 2, but as a flashback or dream. Get over it.

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Thursday, November 9, 2006 3:48 AM

ZZETTA13

Last Renaissance festival I went to I had fried greenFaerie on a stick....dang tasty

Z

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Thursday, November 9, 2006 9:21 AM

JOLLY

Now here's an interesting little discovery I just made...every time I refresh the window, the "times read" counter advances 1. Now, assuming that the counter doesn't periodically reset, that means that since the first post in this thread, the page has been reloaded 6866 times. Since I for one have visited the thread multiple times (including posting a few times), that would imply that the thread has been viewed by far less than 6866 viewers (guest status has the same effect). I would gather from this that the implication is that the vast majority of accounts here are no longer active.

Now, of course, this all hinges on my assumption that the viewer counter isn't periodically reset. Can anyone set me straight?

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Thursday, November 9, 2006 2:32 PM

KINGKILLER

I think it's pretty clear from the way Zoe says that Wash aint coming, that he's dead. Sure, Zoe wouldn't be aware of all the stuff you're talking about, but from the standpoint of the script that was the Joss Whedon telling us, "Yes, Wash did just die."

And in the commentary Joss refers to Wash as dying, not as seeming to die, or appears to die. Joss killed off Wash at the that point to make you go, "Are they going to make it through this? Is it possible that they might all die." Seeing that he was willing to kill a major character like that and especially in that fashion makes you a whole lot more worried about the other characters.

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Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 AM

LLA

You know what I think is interesting....?
Lets suppose that in the film Wash did get saved and he was alive and well (if injured!) at the end of the film.
Would anyone be debating the fact that he should be dead????? I don't think so - all these people who say that he must be dead, probably wouldn't be saying it if he wasn't dead, if you get what I mean?
Not sure of the relevance of this, but thought it was interesting!
I am a huge Wash fan and am gutted to find out he is dead (only found Firefly/Serenity a couple of weeks ago!) but can't see how it will fit into the story if he isn't dead. Although I am hoping and praying that he isn't, coz he is so gorgeous!!

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Friday, November 10, 2006 2:23 AM

ZZETTA13

LLA,

One thing that I am sure of is that when the "Joss verse" returns (and it will)there are going to be some disapointed ppl one way or another.

What has me leaning toward Wash coming back to Serenity? Lets say that the BDS would have been allowed to continue at least another season. Would the writters have written him out two or three shows past the OIS eps? I think not. I think that Wash would have remained alive and healthy the full season then another if there had been one.For the BDM Joss needed a story with some bite. Some punch power. Seemingly killing off a couple of main characters would give the story just that.

My wife and I having seen Serenity first, then only as a rented dvd, well Wash's death was sad, but it wasn't a big deal. After that, renting the entire FF series from NetFlix and really enjoying the characters,well Wash's death does become a big deal.Book's too. How could Joss do that to the fans? Doesn't he like us? My thinking is that he already had some sort of planned story for Wash post BDM. It may only be in flashbacks,who's to say but Joss. I feel that Book's story will come out too. The verse is incomplete. There has been no closure and ppl want to know. They Have to know.

Z

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Friday, November 10, 2006 3:37 AM

LLA

Yeah I agree, I only saw a couple of the episodes and then watched the film, then started watching the series from the beginning, and Wash's death in the film was a shock, but I got to being a fan through the series.
I'm sure I read something that said that the film took things to where Joss wanted them to be by the end of season 2....so perhaps he would have been killed off eventually, but not as quickly as in the film. Hey, I don't care if he is dead in the film, if only they brought the series back, from where the last episode finished. But having read a lot of these posts, it would appear that even if a series 2 appears, it would be after the film events......such a shame!
But he's bound to appear in flashbacks and things, and I expect that it will be really funny! I also agree with someone else on this discussion, about how Zoe will be after his death - thats what was interesting about her - the solider woman, and the wife...

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Friday, November 10, 2006 4:16 AM

ZEPH

Okay, first off: long-time lurker, first-time poster (apart from a fanfic ages ago, about a card game). Couldn't remember/find that old log-in and such, so I created a new one.

Secondly, yes, I read the entire gorram thread.

My take on Wash being alive or dead...? Both camps have heaps o' logic and fact on their side. And that matters how much? Exactly none.

If (and yes, there's a whole lot of "if" coming off this post) there is a continuation in whatever form of the 'Verse, Wash's survival or non-survival may just be decided by someone outside the discussion -- including, to a point, Joss.

If some producer/exec/high-muckety-muck says, "Sure, we'll bankroll a new movie/series/puppet show, but only if you can bring in the whole original cast..." then my money is on Joss bringing Wash right back.

Luckily, Joss being the genius he is, I actually have some faith that he'll do it well (even though I do have some reservations on how he's done similar things in the past).

Just my two-tenths of a Platinum.

Let the flaming begin...

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 2:23 AM

BROWNCOAT555

I agree that Joss had it planned all along. Firefly, as good as it was, was all about the crisis of the week. Dreams and flashbacks of former crewmates/spouses gives the core characters more depth and allows for all manner of story hooks to be inserted at any time, under any circumstances.

I think that is the significance of Wash and Bok's deaths.

I suspect that the Jayne character will be the next casualty. The character does not have to die but will leave the crew of Serenity before too long, I suspect. There has always been a lot of tension between the Captain and Jayne and now that River is in a much more prominent position on the ship, I'm thinking Jayne will not be on board much longer.

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:32 AM

ZENDOVE

Quote:
Coming back from the dead is stock and trade in science fiction. I'm hard pressed to remember a 'verse where it hasn't happened. Someone help me out. Can you think of any?"

Depends on if you're excluding sci fi literature (which i personally get much geekier over than TV; it's almost always much better quality storytelling). Orson Scott Card's "Ender's Game" 'verse jumps to mind as a particularly good example of "dead is dead and no gettin' around it." OSC is a genius storyteller who, like Joss, understands that the most powerful sci fi doesn't use conveniently "futuristic" plot devises to let characters (or audience) escape the painful reality of the story. One of the things that is so ruttin' brilliant about this 'verse is that the crew have to face consequences and hard choices with no one but each other; that's why I love them so much - because their life is so much like my life, only with spaceships - no dear and fluffy Lord to save them when what happens isn't to their liking.

Sorry for the rant. I get really wound up about the "socio-political relavence" of sci fi... yes, i'm a geek.

Q
The wheel never stops turning...

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 3:20 PM

GREENFAERIE

OK, OK, I give. In truth, I want Wash back as much as anyone. So, here is how I see he comes back...

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 4:41 PM

GRAYALBATROSS

A) that's funny.

B) Collapsed lungs and damaged heart isn't even the begining of the trouble. It cuts right through the spinal cord, which is instant death no matter how much technology one has. Then it clips the side of the heart, severing many vital arteries, while force trauma collapses the left ventricle and crushes the rest against the rib cage. The lungs aren't just "collapsed" as many people have so quaintly put it; They are torn apart. It ends it's journey by bursting through the sternum and springing probably all the ribs, which then in turn pierce half a dozen other vital organs. How do I know this? I sat down with my science teacher mother and her model of the human body, with the movie paused at the moment of impact. We discussed the subject at length.

I hate to be a downer folks, but no power in the verse can bring him back. *SOOOOOOOOB*

. I wish I could believe you.

***
When in doubt, consult the hamster.

Also, I can kill you with my brain

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Saturday, December 2, 2006 3:31 PM

KELAI

Quote:
Originally posted by GrayAlbatross:
A) that's funny.

B) Collapsed lungs and damaged heart isn't even the begining of the trouble. It cuts right through the spinal cord, which is instant death no matter how much technology one has. Then it clips the side of the heart, severing many vital arteries, while force trauma collapses the left ventricle and crushes the rest against the rib cage. The lungs aren't just "collapsed" as many people have so quaintly put it; They are torn apart. It ends it's journey by bursting through the sternum and springing probably all the ribs, which then in turn pierce half a dozen other vital organs. How do I know this? I sat down with my science teacher mother and her model of the human body, with the movie paused at the moment of impact. We discussed the subject at length.

I hate to be a downer folks, but no power in the verse can bring him back. *SOOOOOOOOB* . I wish I could believe you.

***
When in doubt, consult the hamster.

Also, I can kill you with my brain

People have survived with that before. With crappy medicine.

--

//breathe today So many lies s w i r l i n g
All A R O U N D You
you're S U F F O C A T I N G
the e m p t y shape in Y O U
s t e a l s your b r e a t h

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Tuesday, November 20, 2007 5:39 PM

ORAM

It happened in an episode of Grey’s Anatomy called “Into You Like A Train Wreck” … except one (the guy) lived the other (the girl) died… it’s possible.
But it's Firefly/Serenity. So anything can happen.

***********************************************
We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit those who would do us harm.

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Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:05 PM

WOLFCRY

Ah, so this is a necro post is it? When I first saw this I thought it was a complete joke, and it was amusing, but well thought out all the same. nice work. "Our chocolate River" hahaha, dark chocolate, the best kind.

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Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:25 PM

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA

I agree wholeheartedly that the deaths of Wash and Book were brilliant bits o' storytellin'. They also made me cry.

That said, I think that we could see some damn creative ways of "Getting Better" to quote Python Monty Pictures ltd. from our Joss.

Remember, Joss is Boss.

I think that having one or both come back in a plausible way would have extreme emotional impact, both for the crew and for the audience. Especially if done as was suggested further up and long ago in this very thread - namely:

"Honey, I'm Home!"
"Wash, you're dead."
"Dead! Hmmm. Well, I got better."

And then have him turn out to be an alliance spy/assassin &c.

This would play mary hobb with Zoe, which would not doubt screw up Mal's ability to survive ((She's the brains behind the outfit, doncha know)) and probably would get Jayne shot and//or knocked out by a 90 year old -- man...with man boobs.

Hilarity and drama ensue.

And then there's the Shepherd coming back. I could see it now -

River is convinced that miracles can happen and becomes a born-again Christian, along with a thoroughly impressed Jayne. Simon is constantly trying to figure out what happened because all signs of the massive bullet wound in Book's gut are gone, and Mal gets confused hilariously.

Now, I know this doesn't deal at all with the technical sides of how they "Pulled through, sah" after there apparently mortal woundings, in their own particular "Idiom". But truthfully what we're discussing here is not what is medically feasible in the Firefly//Sereniverse. It is what effect on the story would this situation bring, and then how to carry it out. The latter part is always going to be secondary to a good story. Even in Ender's Game ((A book I thoroughly approve of)), the Ansible and Philotic technology is so obviously counter to our current understanding of physics ((Which, hope of hopes, might change.)) but is necessary for the story, and therefore we suspend our disbelief. And come on, is not Joss a master of story telling?

All in all, it is unsurprising and entirely inevitable that this thread has once again popped up, and once again I post by .02 plat. All I ask now is if Pastor B. is here, would he please reply and give us his general thoughts on how his suitably massive and peer reviewed//criticized thread has become? That would be great. And seeing him again would be nice.

"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card

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Wednesday, November 21, 2007 4:32 AM

RALLEM

It is entirely possible that Wash survived the landing but I think the creamation or burial might have done him in.

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Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:29 AM

MICJWELCH

Anyone else notice that this thread just won't die? Kinda reminds me of a few Joss Whedon characters...

Quote:
Originally posted by rallem:
It is entirely possible that Wash survived the landing but I think the creamation or burial might have done him in.

We don't know that they did bury him. We know there was a marker put up. The crew would not have thought much of it if there was no body there when they got back, considering the circumstances. They probably didn't have Book's body either, but they put up a marker for him. (And if anybody says they strapped his body to the front of the ship...

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:16 AM

KACEK

Of course Zoe said he wasn't coming, she had last seen him pinned like an itty bitty bug to his pilot's chair. However, while watching the movie, I was expecting Wash to be back. Kept expecting him to walk down the ramp at the end. Was actually disappointed when he didn't.
Yeah, so he had a gorram spike [nod to steering column] through his chest.
Couldn't the operative have had a squad still on the ground? After all, they were expecting Serenity to come back. So, medical assistance is possible.

Alternative to Wash being dead but bringing back Alan: Wash's brother, Dry. :P

Shepherd being dead made sense to me (as I've stated in posts elsewhere on the forum). After all, he was a man of faith and there is a pattern of martyrdom in that faith.

I am not a Buffy fan, nor have I watched more than one episode of that particular series, so I'm not clear on Joss' predilection for reincarnation. But it makes sense in Firefly.

Thank you Pastorbadger for providing us with an alternative.

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Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:59 AM

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA

Just for Old times sake -

"Of course Zoe said he wasn't coming, she had last seen him pinned like an itty bitty bug to his pilot's chair."

Steering Column!

This thread just won't die. Which I think is ironic, considering it's content.

I say we have an entirely unscientific poll to determine if Wash is dead or not. We shall count each time this thread has popped back up after a month of dormancy as a vote for Wash possibly being in a state of quasi-not-yet-deadness three times! no more no less! Then we can count every time a person has brought up the Steering Column! argument as one vote for and one half vote against the above Wash proposition. And then afterwards we can duke it out and decide that this thread is really needing to take a cricket bat to the head, as it's obviously a zombie thread, and get no further in our logical discussion of Why Wash is 100% Alive and Mostly Well.

Your thoughts?

And would the Real Pastor Badger Please Stand Up!?

"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card

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Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:03 AM

RALLEM

Quote:
Originally posted by micjwelch:
Anyone else notice that this thread just won't die? Kinda reminds me of a few Joss Whedon characters...

Quote:
Originally posted by rallem:
It is entirely possible that Wash survived the landing but I think the creamation or burial might have done him in.

We don't know that they did bury him. We know there was a marker put up. The crew would not have thought much of it if there was no body there when they got back, considering the circumstances. They probably didn't have Book's body either, but they put up a marker for him. (And if anybody says they strapped his body to the front of the ship... ).

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

Book's body was strapped to the hull of Serenity so they did have the bodies to Wash, Book, and Mr. Universe the three people buried.

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Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:29 AM

MICJWELCH

Quote:
Originally posted by rallem:
Book's body was strapped to the hull of Serenity so they did have the bodies to Wash, Book, and Mr. Universe the three people buried.

That was an OUTTAKE! You could tell because Kaylee couldn't stop laughing! That and it was in the "Outtakes" section of the dvd...

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:37 AM

RALLEM

I thought that outtake was funny too.

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Wednesday, November 21, 2007 12:37 PM

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA

I loved Jayne/Adam's reaction - Just a gobsmacked "wha?" and a smile.

"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card

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Wednesday, November 21, 2007 12:46 PM

QUIETUDE

I spoke with Alan Tudyk at the first Starfury con in the UK after the pre-screening of the movie. Since I had only seen the movie once, I had thought that the spike that got Wash had punched through his stomach. But Alan put me straight and told me the spike went straight through Wash's heart. Now A-Lions medicine maybe pretty good, but it only take two minutes for a brain starved of oxygen for permanent brain damage. Must admit I still hold out hopes, superguts or something like that. Wash was the Zander Harris of the crew, and pretty much I believe the humour outlet for Joss. Zander survived right to the end of Buffy so seems to be a major writing need for Joss so one would hope that Wash is the same.

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Wednesday, November 21, 2007 1:05 PM

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA

That's so cool! Meeting any of the BDHs would be amazing!

And you're right, there are certainly some serious logical problems with making him be only mostly dead, but I think what we need to consider would be the affect on the story if he were to be brought back, Magical Max or not.

"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card

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Wednesday, November 21, 2007 8:03 PM

SWEETESTHAT

What will finally decide whether or not Wash is dead is the next piece of Firefly/Serenity story set after the first Serenity movie-- whether it's a book, movie, comic, series, etc. And that will be up to Joss, and Alan, and all the other people involved in making it. What's come before is true enough... but just as Serenity-the-movie was not the same as Firefly-the-series, I think whatever comes next may well be something new too. And if it is a new ball game, anything could happen...

What happens until then, we can only guess. If it makes you feel better to think Wash is dead, fine, that's your right. If it makes you feel better to think Wash is alive, fine, that's your right too.

Personally...

STEERING COLUMN, baby! I want Wash back, alive if not completely well. (There's gotta be some sort of plot complication to keep things flyin'.) I'm sure Joss & Co. could write it at least as well as so many fanfic writers have, and I've seen several wonderful examples of Resurrection!Fic right here in the Blue Sun Room. Will it cheapen the movie? Not for me. If anything, I thought it was pretty damn cheap to kill Wash off for the sole reason of jerking around the fans, or "raising tension," as TPTB called it. But hey, that's me, and I'm sure there are plenty out there who don't agree.

If that puts me up to my neck in the river De Nial, fine. It's all imaginary anyway, so I'd like to imagine it the way I choose. Kudos to PB in thinking it through so well, and giving this Browncoat a bit more hope. If my hopin's a problem to you... well, I'm just gonna be all Kaylee-like, put on a big sweet smile, and say, "that's okay too, just think what you wanna." And we'll all look forward to the next Firefly/Serenity project happily.

one of the FORSAKEN (self-appointed): We aim to burn!

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Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:57 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Are you sure we're not going to meet Gilbert "Gib" Washburne, Hoban's twin brother?
Although Zoe was not able to explore a relationship with Simon while Wash was around, now it's a different matter.
And of course Gib has the hots for KayLee. That's going to be funny, where every time the "landing party" needs to make an unplanned expedient getaway, err...takeoff, they'll be coitus interruptus for Gib & KayLee (Gib is as good a pilot as Wash).

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