Has JJ Abrams (creator of Lost & Alias)ever given Joss props? by jwhedonaddict

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Has JJ Abrams (creator of Lost & Alias)ever given Joss props?

POSTED BY: JWHEDONADDICT
UPDATED: Thursday, November 30, 2006 11:59
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Saturday, November 25, 2006 1:15 PM

With Buffy, Joss created a warm, witty, character-driven, thought-provoking serialized ensemble show (based on a bizarre premise) a good three years before Alias. Then he did the same with Angel and Firefly, while JJ did Alias and Lost, with similar types of storytelling. Alias had the kick-ass female lead, while Lost is often thought-provoking and told with heart. Joss did everything JJ did first(and better!), although JJ usually gets more credit, for somewhat lesser work. Not that I have anything against JJ or his shows, as I was (and am) a fan, but it does irritate me beyond belief.

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Saturday, November 25, 2006 2:01 PM

WHOISRIVER

Hello! Has Joss given credit to all the people whose work he referenced or used in in Buffy, Angel and Firefly? Probably not. There's a lot of referenced stuff in Buffy in particular, along with borrowed concepts etc.

A little known fact, Joss and JJ are friends.

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Saturday, November 25, 2006 2:05 PM

ANONYMOUS1

jwhedonaddict,

Did you miss Nathan (Our Captain) Fillion's episode of LOST?

You can see it at http://abc.com click on shows click on LOST.

It is so giving Joss props. Someday, I think there will be a LOST DVD listing all the movies and shows that are referenced in the LOST series.

Nathan's episode--It is Firefly: Our Mrs. Reynolds.

Also someone noticed that a guy was sucked into an engine in the LOST pilot.

The smoke monster sounds like the monster from Forbidden planet.

There is stuff in LOST from The Wizard of OZ. The Twilight Zone. I think I noticed two references to Stephen Kings' book Twelve Seconds Past midnight. Nathan's character Kevin in LOST says a line from his movie SLiTHER (Available on DVD now)

This is how they give props. Director/writer James Gunn did the same thing in his movie SLiTHER. Little hidden nuggets that fans have to find that point to the other works the writer/director/producers loved.

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Sunday, November 26, 2006 2:18 AM

JWHEDONADDICT

Actually, Joss has ALWAYS acknowledged where his influences come from. Usually, he even cracks on himself for it.

However, I can't remember JJ ever acknowledging Joss.

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Sunday, November 26, 2006 2:26 AM

JWHEDONADDICT

Nope, I didn't miss Nathan's episode. My favorite episode this year by far. Hope the rumor that he'll be in one more episode this year is true.

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Sunday, November 26, 2006 3:22 AM

WHOISRIVER

Actually, he doesn't always - there's hundreds of references in - say - Buffy, which aren't mentioned.

Tis the nature of the game.

Like I said, JJ and JW are friends, and I'm pretty sure if we went looking for interviews with JJ we'd find references to Joss in them. Let's face it - if Joss was at all bothered about it, he wouldn't speak to JJ.

JJ has had many of the former Buffy writers and producers on his shows, two Whedonverse actors, and various Whedon related directors. Which is great for all concerned.

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Sunday, November 26, 2006 5:54 AM

KELAI

Three Actors (to my knowledge) -- Gina, Nathan, and Amy Acker

--

//breathe today So many lies s w i r l i n g
All A R O U N D You
you're S U F F O C A T I N G
the e m p t y shape in Y O U
s t e a l s your b r e a t h

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Sunday, November 26, 2006 6:57 AM

JWHEDONADDICT

I didn't mean that he mentions every single little thing (because how could he?), but he HAS regularly mentioned "homages", as he usually likes to call them, in interviews, commentaries, wherever the opportunity comes up.

I am NOT condemning JJ or saying that JJ never does this at all (except I have never heard him mention Joss by name). I am simply a little upset at the idea that Joss doesn't get as much credit over all as JJ does.

I also didn't say Joss had a problem with it, I said that I did.

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Sunday, November 26, 2006 7:07 AM

WHOISRIVER

Oh, don't get me wrong - sorry if you're picking that vibe up from me. I'm not trying to be a dick about it, just put a different spin on the situation.

One thing I will say is that JJ tends to do far less than Joss in terms of comentaries and such (and let's face it - can anybody remember the last time he wrote or directed an episode of Lost?).

The reason JJ gets a lot more attention than Joss in the media and in terms of online people is this: Lost has had 23m+ viewers at times, and Alias did similar numbers along the way. Buffy was, like, 2m viewers or so.

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Sunday, November 26, 2006 7:35 AM

JWHEDONADDICT

I realize that ratings are an obvious issue in this case, but I just don't think that should matter as much as quality. The thing that really kickstarted this whole thing for me(again, I should say) is when MSN recently did a top ten or whatever of TV producers and JJ was at #3 (or #4 or something) while Joss was way behind at #8. It's just total B.S. as far as I'm concerned.

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Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:24 AM

KELAI

JJ has a tendency to create newshows and leave the others behind. When LOST was created he stopped writing and generally caring about Alias, and with 6Degrees and other shows he's bound to stop writing for LOST pretty soon. And when JJ left ALIAS in season 5, it SUCKED BIG TIME.

btw Alias never exceeded 14m viewers. In seasons 3 and 4 it was like 7m and in 5th it was 5m or at some points 2.5m

--

//breathe today So many lies s w i r l i n g
All A R O U N D You
you're S U F F O C A T I N G
the e m p t y shape in Y O U
s t e a l s your b r e a t h

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Sunday, November 26, 2006 10:06 AM

WHOISRIVER

Quote:
Originally posted by jwhedonaddict:
I realize that ratings are an obvious issue in this case, but I just don't think that should matter as much as quality. The thing that really kickstarted this whole thing for me(again, I should say) is when MSN recently did a top ten or whatever of TV producers and JJ was at #3 (or #4 or something) while Joss was way behind at #8. It's just total B.S. as far as I'm concerned.

Ratings matter only in that, for example, say to the average joe on the street - what's American Idol and who's in it? They'll know. Ask the same about Firefly. They won't.

JJ has created several TV shows which are extremely successful (in commercial terms) series, which have been mainstream successes. Yes, he's cherry picked ideas from Joss and lots of other people, but in terms of is he a more successful TV producer than Joss? Yes, if you're judging it on ratings alone. In terms of creativity, I think Joss wins hands down -- however there's many people who don't like Joss Whedon's work or style of writing. Those are the people who laughed when "From the creator of Buffy" came up in the Serenity trailers at the theatre.

With regards to JJ not writing for LOST, I don't think he's written an episode since season 1 anyway. JJ has a lot going on at the moment, and is big on the movies (STAR TREK for Paramount due to go into production next year yada). I know there's people who accuse Joss of doing similar things with Buffy.

Anyway, whatever the case, I think they're both extremely talented people who produce pop culture shows.

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Sunday, November 26, 2006 10:17 AM

HUGHFF

Ratings also matter because they determine advertising and, ultimately, revenue. TV is a commercial concern first and an artistic one second (don't matter if you don't like that) so any list is going to measure casual ratings above dedicated fanbase or artistic merit.

www.cpfc.org - my life
www.nbhs.school.nz - my work

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Monday, November 27, 2006 8:00 AM

SICKDUDE

Unless I'm mistaken, which I seldom am, both of them are third-generation Hollywood/writers as well.

"I am your father, Luke. Give in to the Dark Side, you nob!" - Doug McKenzie

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Monday, November 27, 2006 8:51 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by jwhedonaddict:
Actually, Joss has ALWAYS acknowledged where his influences come from. Usually, he even cracks on himself for it.

However, I can't remember JJ ever acknowledging Joss.

Maybe JJ simply wasn't influenced all that much by Joss. Prior to Alias, he was running Felicity. There are, believe it or not, people who have never watched Buffy or Angel. JJ could be one of them.

Or, maybe JJ was influenced by the same people Joss was. Maybe he just started getting into more serialized stories around the same time as everyone else in TV.

Joss rocks and all, but he didn't single-handedly invent "good" TV.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, November 27, 2006 11:43 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

I can see why your upset at the relatively huge amount of attention JJ has over Joss, but you mustn't concern yourself as to the merrits of this...

JJ is part creator of a more accessible show [LOST] than those that, thus far, Joss has created. I don' think that's any measure of talent/genius.

While the likes of us here are perhaps more readily drawn to a show with comedy/horror/drama and action when you think about it the horror element of BUFFY will put more people off. A show like Lost is traditional in it's dynamics and more in-line with a mystery drama (there isn't much humour) and this tends to be more (in terms of numbers) more palitable.

However I think there is room for both, and should they be friends in their spare time, then so much the better.

Chances are they do know each other and are friends with I imagine a whole lot of other producer/director types. Look at the seventies how Spielberg, De Palma, Coppola, Scorcese, Lucas and Milos where all buds. It also helped them to be creative and up the stakes, to push each other in a good way towards creating great things.

Likewise I imagine Joss and JJ possibly egg each other on or have done -- now that Joss has temporarily given up TV though I imagine the airwaves are clear for a few wannabees to have a go.

As for borrowing from each others' shows, I don't think anyone in hollywood is clean from playful borrowing. You'd be amazed where the initial influences come from. There is a whole network of experimental filmakers and video artists who would claim hollywood have playgurized their work...

www.cirqus.com

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Monday, November 27, 2006 4:22 PM

FFYING2

jwhedonaddict-

I don't know of any public recognition by Abrams, but he has said he was a fan of Joss's shows and the writers.

- When "Angel" was canceled, Abrams called Joss to say sorry about that and uh can I have your writers...

Quote:
"You desperately try to find the best people out there to work with," Abrams says. "I felt slightly like an ambulance chaser, but when I heard that 'Angel' was sadly going down, the first thing was to call Joss to say 'My apologies,' and 'I have to be pragmatic here and ask you, what do I do?' I know he has an amazing ability to find these great writers. As a fan of those shows, these are people I've wanted to work with before, and I've talked to. They were either unavailable or loving what they were doing.

"Obviously, as soon as 'Angel' went down, we scrambled and were lucky enough to convince Jeff Bell and Drew Goddard to come to 'Alias,' and David Fury on 'Lost.' Also, not just as a writer, but director, because Jeff Bell directed an 'Alias' episode called 'Ice,' which is terrific. We scored."

http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271|92271|1|,00.html
December 10, 2004

- Then Joss alluded to this within a long post on Whedonesque.

Quote:
J.J. Abrams: Mysterious. Has taken my writers but made no demands, not even a note. He did send me Drew's ear, but I just think Drew was finished with it.

http://whedonesque.com/comments/5677#46902
December 31, 2004

- Then Abrams responded on the official Lost boards.

Quote:
Weird about that Whedon thing. I guess he never got the note. And do you know how long it took me, cutting out all those letters from newspaper advertisements?

Oh well. Guess I'll just have to KEEP THOSE WRITERS.

And Drew rarely listens anyway. One less ear shouldn't mean much.

PS: Truth? They're all obviously insane-brilliant and I'm beyond luck to get to work with them.

http://www.thefuselage.com/Archive/VIPArchive/VIPArchive1104694872.htm
January 2, 2005

Thanks to Whedonesque and Google.

Ying

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Thursday, November 30, 2006 11:59 AM

JWHEDONADDICT

I had heard the comment from Joss's side, but never heard JJ's. Good to know that there has been SOME acknowledgement of Joss by JJ, even if it's good-natured ribbing.

As much as I HATED the cncellation of Angel (it actually sent me into a depression--shock, anger, near-catatonia--no kidding) it was somewhat of a consolation that Drew Goddard and Jeff Bell were hired on at Alias and David Fury at Lost. It really did feel like a gift because one show I already loved and another I would come to love and it made me feel as though I wasn't losing the Jossverse completely while Joss was off making Serenity. It was a little crumb to hold on to, I guess. For that, JJ has my complete gratitude.

But no one, and I mean NO ONE, EVER will hold a candle to Joss, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe he didn't single-handedly create good TV but I could care less about that. Joss isn't just one of the most talented, most creative television producers ever. More importantly (to me, anyway), Joss is an artist who has consistently poured his soul into creating wonderful worlds that made you think, feel and relate. Joss's worlds made life a little easier, a little better. He helped me to see certain things that I didn't quite get before, about myself, about others, about this country, about the world. He opened my eyes to so much!

I admit, with Alias's cancellation, I shed a few tears, but with Angel's, I felt gutted.

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