Browncoat HQ? by SerenityNow

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Browncoat HQ?

POSTED BY: SERENITYNOW
UPDATED: Saturday, February 21, 2004 20:04
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Tuesday, February 17, 2004 11:10 AM

Thanks, Jen. That was so...historical.

Honestly, thanks a lot.

I keep harping on this being a "confederacy" and it's funny...the Star Wars storm trooper/evil guy "garrisons" are really well organized, but still a pretty loose group at the local level. They all seem to accept that structure of some kind is necessary to coordinate all the conventions and charity work they do. But hey--they're celebrating an evil totalitarian empire manned by clones.

We are celebrating a Civil War sci fi reenactment type thing and we're acting like a bunch of greycoats. It's 1860 all over again. ;) It's just--I remember something from 8th grade about how hard it was for them to get organized because of all their stupid factions and pride.

So, I say, let's just go ahead and set up an HQ--whether based at browncoats or shindigified or wherever we decide. Let's organize on a grand scale and those so inclined will join in, and those who don't can do their own thing. Apparently you guys already made the decision to do that with your Browncoat Ball. But like you said--it'd be nice to do stuff to support the potential movie, and like Haken said, do maybe a convention even. And like Lodril said (in the MD Browncoats thread)--we need to at least make sure somebody's "representing" at the various sci fi conventions--'stead of just one guy in a Ma Cobb hat and a Blue Sun shirt.

But at the least, we need a directory, and with you all on board, I think that's really the majority of the core fan base we need to make this work.

I guess what I'm saying is--most of the core fans know everything that going on. We just need a good, central introductory site for fans wanting to get involved.

Okay, I'm getting all verbose now and talking in circles now. I'll shut up. I guess I'm just excited and itching to get this thing off the ground.

http://dryope.typepad.com/superfly/

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Tuesday, February 17, 2004 12:34 PM

HOGHUG

Quote:

Originally posted by kisbundas:
Yep...depending on how the database gets built you can design front-end pages for any number of sites that could all interface with the same database. I know how this works, but sadly I don't know how to make it work. Pool your collective talent...and we can make it happen.

Anyone out there with the technical skills for this. As for the actual compilation/typing I'm ready to slave away... but the technical design is beyond me.

Jeff

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Tuesday, February 17, 2004 1:56 PM

PUDOR

Quote:
Originally posted by hoghug:

Anyone out there with the technical skills for this. As for the actual compilation/typing I'm ready to slave away... but the technical design is beyond me.

Well, I can do it, no problem, but it might take a while before I have time to get it done (I have hardcore exams from the 3rd to the 11th - everyone cross their fingers for me!) Needless to say, I'm more than up for it :)

I can also sort out designing the database, etc, if anyone wants to give me some idea of what's going on :)

Ok: In short - give me something to do and I'll do it. As Nishka would say, I am 'solid'...

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Tuesday, February 17, 2004 2:27 PM

RKLENSETH

Well it seems a lot of things are beginning to work out. Still waiting to hear from my friend.

Anyhow, I think it wold be good to have seperate site for the directory that way there is anoter site and the chances of someone finding one of them is greater and if all of them are linked together then someone will be able to find out this information a lot easier.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

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Tuesday, February 17, 2004 4:00 PM

SERENITYNOW

You're incredible. I'll definitely be thinking lucky thoughts for you.

Email me (f3k64@yahoo.com) or Jeff (I think he's on here somewhere) to talk about it.

Here's my vision-thingy for the site. Everybody--please let me know what you think:

I think the "HQ" or whatever needs these 3 elements:

-- searchable and stable directory. You have to be a member to get other members' contact info (voluntary to the extreme), but anybody can get a regional contact. This is also good for *media* contacts, not just fans.

-- easy to understand intro portion. I'm thinking, pretty & sophisticated (a la fireflymovie.com)--but something even more of a basic basic intro. The kind of site you'd send your mother to go look at when trying to explain the show. User-friendly, for those tentative new fans who aren't sure what kind of crazy people they're dealing with and what they're getting into. So we give them a primrose path. (This will of course link to everything else that's out there.) Ideally this would have a page with a history of the fan movement, too--what's been tried to save the show for example.

--Current community explanation. This would of course include fully documented links--an annotated directory of where to go for what. One big feature of this would be scouring the newsletters, boards, and other websites to present a digest of news and "stuff" providers. Who is doing commemerative patches, costume stuff, ripping music? And it would also give a brief overview of the current efforts to save the show/movie--all links mostly. But the key is, they're updated, in one place, and kind of tie everybody together.

So basically--like they said above, a nexus of links and digest of news. But mostly an empty site, relying heavily on the already existing community for the real meat (except where we find holes). This means that the directory could be hosted at shindignified.com if they want to do that, or elsewhere, and browncoats.org can do their FAQ...basically we would at minimum be a coordinating site and at maximum host a lot of the stuff ourselves.

Though of course, this is just one idea. The site belongs to everybody, so you all can alter this completely if you think a different way of doing it is better.

http://dryope.typepad.com/superfly/

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Tuesday, February 17, 2004 5:21 PM

LODRIL

Quote:
Originally posted by SerenityNow:
One big feature of this would be scouring the newsletters, boards, and other websites to present a digest of news and "stuff" providers. Who is doing commemerative patches, costume stuff, ripping music?

Ummm... that part's not such a good idea. The various costumes, patches and music are all copyrighted works. Violating copyrights for profit (i.e., copy and sell, you don't have to make any money) is technically a federal crime. While you're not likely to hear from the Justice Department on any of this, it's also a civil violation of the respective trademarks and copyrights involved. They may be ok with that, but in my experience (and the experience of other prop-fans I know) it is better to keep those things at least nominally hidden... easy to find once people know who you are, but not blatantly listed so that rights holders feel compelled to do something. Joss Whedon or whoever may not care if we copy stuff, so we shouldn't make them care.

The 501st is a great example... every member violates LFL's copyrights, but they do so with the unspoken blessing of LFL. They don't ask where the armor comes from, and we don't volunteer. On the other hand, when the same people put up easily located sites (or several eBay auctions) listing infringing items they have for sale, LFL goes after them.

So, the rest of that stuff, good. The 'who is selling what database', not so good.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2004 12:09 AM

SERENITYNOW

Fine, be that way. Just because you're lawyery and ethical 'n stuff...

But I don't think Jayne hats are an IP issue at least!

http://dryope.typepad.com/superfly/

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Wednesday, February 18, 2004 5:17 AM

RKLENSETH

Making costumes copying off of clothing in the show isn't copyright infringment. I will agree with you that making patches with Firefly logos or Firefly names on it and ripping music is copyright infringment but not mking costumes that look like those from the show.

Anyways, in this case I don't think anyone right now will care as neither Universal or FOX are currently making patches or making Firefly albums. So they aren't using money, it is free advertisement for the show (means they are making money without losing a cent), and until they begin to market such merchandise themselves I don't think anyone will have a problem.

Anyways, you'll get a letter from Universal long before they sue you for copyright infringment asking you to stop. As long as you stop they will forgive you on that matter. If they don't ask you to stop usually means they don't care, or they feel it is helping them.

So I wouldn't be too worried about copyright infringment.

And look at all the fansites. By putting up pictures and information on the show is theoritically copyright infringment. Hell, even talking about the show off the official board is copyright infringment.

You see there is a fine line and if you cross it then they will let you know nicely that you have and ask you to step back over.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2004 5:57 AM

SERENITYNOW

Hey--he knows what he's talking about. If he says be careful, I would. I mean, this is his legal specialty, and he's told me about some innocent-seeming cases where things didn't go so well for costumers--even when they /did/ have right on their side. Some companies are just touchy and they can put up a fight just for the hell of it.

Though you /know/ we want an open place to talk about this stuff, I'm certainly not going to support something like that if Lodril says to back off. I'd hate to have to ask him to help me out in a dumb legal dispute over FF merchandise (when I can just be quiet about it and avoid Fox's notice...)

http://dryope.typepad.com/superfly/

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Wednesday, February 18, 2004 7:10 AM

HOGHUG

Quote:

Originally posted by SerenityNow:
You're incredible. I'll definitely be thinking lucky thoughts for you.

Email me (f3k64@yahoo.com) or Jeff (I think he's on here somewhere) to talk about it.

Here's my vision-thingy for the site. ...

I'm here!

jeff@browncoats.com

or

jeffngayla@cox.net

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Wednesday, February 18, 2004 7:43 AM

LODRIL

Originally posted by rklenseth:
Making costumes copying off of clothing in the show isn't copyright infringment.

Technically, it is. It's called a "derivative work". To some degree, since the costumes are just regular clothes, you're a lot safer reproducing them than, say, a Star Fleet uniform, but since you're combining a bunch of materials to express something that is a copyrighted expression, you're in more dangerous territory. If you're selling stuff explicitly to help other people infringe, then all the moreso (this is called 'contributory infringement', and is sometimes prosecuted with more frequency than direct infringement).

So they aren't using money, it is free advertisement for the show (means they are making money without losing a cent), and until they begin to market such merchandise themselves I don't think anyone will have a problem.

A common mistake. Just because they're not losing money doesn't mean the studios and etc won't come after you. In point of fact, when you use their names and trademarks on your own goods (in this case, "Firefly"), you are infringing unless you have permission. With copyrights, they can let you infringe and lose nothing... but with trademarks if they don't make reasonable attempts to protect their marks, they lose them. Thus, if it's too easy to find you making "Firefly" patches, then they're legally obliged to sue you, or risk losing their rights to the name "Firefly". None of us wants to see that happen.

Paramount is notorious for this... they go after all kinds of prop makers who replicate things seen on Star Trek, even if they have no plans of ever selling those things themselves. Guy I met sold a toy gun "as seen on Star Trek" and got a threatening letter for it. Turns out the gun was a toy manufactured by someone else and used as a prop in DS9, and Paramount had no rights to it whatsoever. Upon hearing that, they backed off... but at no point did they ever plan on selling that rifle themselves, and they were still quite eager to go after this guy.

As long as you stop they will forgive you on that matter.

Usually. They're not required to even send the letter though. They could just send you a summons to appear in court without prior warning. It's unusual, but it can happen. Which is why I recommend making people working on such things less visible. The studios may or may not care about what you're doing, but there's no sense putting it in their face to find out.

Hell, even talking about the show off the official board is copyright infringment.

That's not true. Discussions of a copyrighted work or trademarked item is fair use. So long as you don't take more than is necessary to have the discussion, you're pretty safe. You can't put entire episodes online for 'discussion' purposes, for example, but you can quote lines pretty freely.

You see there is a fine line and if you cross it then they will let you know nicely that you have and ask you to step back over.

Probably... but why help them find people to ask?

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Wednesday, February 18, 2004 9:45 AM

RKLENSETH

Well, we can always ask permission. Send a letter or e-mail over to Universal and see how they respond back.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2004 1:04 PM

STARHAND

Jeff, I noticed your email is an @cox.net. I figure you must be in the southwest. I'm in Phoenix, where y'all from.
~*

"Well, I've been sane awhile now but change is good."-Wash

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Wednesday, February 18, 2004 1:25 PM

RKLENSETH

Quote:
Originally posted by Starhand:
Jeff, I noticed your email is an @cox.net. I figure you must be in the southwest. I'm in Phoenix, where y'all from.
~*

"Well, I've been sane awhile now but change is good."-Wash

I believe there is already a thread on this

Anyways, I am from the wilderness of Upstate New York within the Hudson Valley and near the capitol of Albany. To be exact I live in a village called West Sand Lake which is either part of the towns of Sand Lake or Averill Park which is in Rensselaer County.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

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Thursday, February 19, 2004 6:46 AM

HOGHUG

Quote:
Originally posted by rklenseth:
Quote:
Originally posted by Starhand:
Jeff, I noticed your email is an @cox.net. I figure you must be in the southwest. I'm in Phoenix, where y'all from.
~*

"Well, I've been sane awhile now but change is good."-Wash

I believe there is already a thread on this

Anyways, I am from the wilderness of Upstate New York within the Hudson Valley and near the capitol of Albany. To be exact I live in a village called West Sand Lake which is either part of the towns of Sand Lake or Averill Park which is in Rensselaer County.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

... And I am from Tulsa, OK...

Hey, Rklenseth any idea which thread is the, "Where y'all from?" thread? I'd like to look at it.

"Have no place I can be since I found Serenity..."

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Thursday, February 19, 2004 7:28 AM

STARHAND

Quote:
Originally posted by hoghug:
Quote:
Originally posted by rklenseth:
Quote:
Originally posted by Starhand:
Jeff, I noticed your email is an @cox.net. I figure you must be in the southwest. I'm in Phoenix, where y'all from.
~*

"Well, I've been sane awhile now but change is good."-Wash

I believe there is already a thread on this

Anyways, I am from the wilderness of Upstate New York within the Hudson Valley and near the capitol of Albany. To be exact I live in a village called West Sand Lake which is either part of the towns of Sand Lake or Averill Park which is in Rensselaer County.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

... And I am from Tulsa, OK...

Hey, Rklenseth any idea which thread is the, "Where y'all from?" thread? I'd like to look at it.

"Have no place I can be since I found Serenity..."

Howdy HogHug,

Tulsa OK? Wow, Cox has a bit bigger range than I thought.

The thread you're asking about is titled "where yall from?" and it's over in the archived thread area. I thought I'd copied it, the url, so I could paste it in here for you but it looks like I lost it. Anyway it's easy to find and it goes back to August of last year, lots of people responded to it.
~*

"Well, I've been sane awhile now but change is good."-Wash

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Thursday, February 19, 2004 7:44 AM

SERENITYNOW

Guys, we totally need a directory.

http://dryope.typepad.com/superfly/

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Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:07 PM

FLAMETREE

A place to identify groups and individuals in the same area would be great. Especially in the more out of the way places like Australia.

I'm in Sydney/ Australia Does anyone organise shindigs here?

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Friday, February 20, 2004 3:20 AM

TRASK43

Yeah I think this should definately be made to have coverage of browncoats all over the world. It would also be useful for people wanting to travel to the states for when the movie opens.

www.summer-glau.com

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Saturday, February 21, 2004 7:17 PM

MYCROFT2

Due to this thread and the "Browncoat HQ" thread created on the OB, Browncoats.com has been revived.

We have spent the last few days talking to the original editors.

There are still sections without an editor so now we are looking for new editors :)

If anyone wants to be involved, send me an email.

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Saturday, February 21, 2004 8:04 PM

MYCROFT2

Did a little searching tonight.

Apparently http://www.fireflyers.net
has a fan database set up.

[edited cause I was wrong :)]

Looks like there are updates going on and activity in the forums.

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