In SERENITY, what was Jayne thinking??? by AURaptor

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

In SERENITY, what was Jayne thinking???

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Monday, January 8, 2007 07:32
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Saturday, January 6, 2007 5:59 AM

America loves a winner!

I know the simple answer, is of course, to give depth and background to Mal and Zoe's dealings with the Alliance, and the war, but still....

After Mal visits Inara and they escape from The Operative, their options are being discussed by all on the ship. Then Jayne brings up the battle of Serenity, and asks how many, besides Mal and Zoe, walked out of that battle. What was he trying to imply ? Why would he even want to go there, when his beef w/ Mal instantly turned into a 2 on 1 situation, with Zoe on Mal's side ? Besides, it was Mal who spared Jayne's life back on Ariel, after Jayne tried to double cross everyone. And more recently, it was Mal who saved Jayne from being eaten by Reavers....

I know Jayne's not the brightest bulb on the tree, but there's got to be some semblance of an innner voice that says " hold on now... lets think about this before we say it ". We know for all his short comings, that Jayne isn't a complete idiot. We're lead to believe that it was Jayne who tracked Serenity when he was with his old crew, from OoG.

I guess it's not too far fetched to see that, in any sequal we'd get, Jayne would be the next one off the ship. I'd hate to see that, personally.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, January 6, 2007 6:30 AM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

I know Jayne's not the brightest bulb on the tree, but there's got to be some semblance of an innner voice that says " hold on now... lets think about this before we say it."

Actually, I'm not convinced he does have that inner voice. As I read Jayne, 95% of his brain (and time, and energy) is spent looking after Jayne, and Jayne's best interest--period. He doesn't seem to have a lot of time for altruism, or even loyalty (and if you think that Ariel was the end of his scheming, just ask yourself: where was the "nice shuttle ride" going?). I think that Jayne was thinking "The last time this guy was up against impossible odds, everyone died. I don't wanna die."

Quote:
I guess it's not too far fetched to see that, in any sequal we'd get, Jayne would be the next one off the ship. I'd hate to see that, personally.

Good point--that'd be something interesting to see. I, for one, would be sad to see Jayne go--but I wouldn't start any petitions to keep him around. In the real world, when you lose track of someone for a year, you find that all sorts of things have changed: new job, new roommates, new girlfriend (or none), more (or less) weight, new interests/hobbies, new/different friends--sometimes, people even die. So why would we think that the verse would be any different? I was a little surprised by the changes in the 'Verse from OiS to BDM, but once I got over the initial surprise, I quite enjoyed the darker Mal, the more vocal Simon, the new Mule and the modified ship. Because hey--things changed while we were away. Makes the 'verse a more dynamic place--anything could happen.

My $0.02.

________________________________________________________________________
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I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Saturday, January 6, 2007 6:46 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I think that, aside from bringing a bit more history into the movie, it was meant to bring an ominous tone to it.
Joss has said that, uh

Select to view spoiler:

Wash dies

because he wanted everyone to think that any of the characters, or all of the characters could go at any time. That it would be, basically, another Serenity Valley, and no one in the platoon would make it out of there alive.
I think Jayne was concerned about that, though he didn't know what was really coming. He wanted to live. Putting that desire to live on the line over someone he didn't care about that much grated him and he got angry and said something stupid. Everyone does that.

[]

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Saturday, January 6, 2007 7:12 AM

KEVINGREY

I don't think I would necessarily look at Jayne's actions in the context of what happened on Ariel, or much else in regards to the series itself, either.

In doing a feature, one has to take into account those who have never watched the series. At the same time, in providing the character arcs that Joss had conceived for his story, it meant he had to "rewind" a bit in regards to them for the movie.

Mal had come a long way, in the series, towards regaining his "faith", as-it-were. But for the purpose of the movie, Joss had to kind of put him back to square one.

Same with the Simon/River and Mal relationship. For if we were truly picking up where the series left off, Simon and River were becoming family, not still considered passengers.

Likewise, with Jayne. Handling the character the way Joss did means there is a perceivable arc, from where Jayne is in his questioning of Mal, to where he is passing a bottle to Simon and gung ho to throw in on Mal's "suicide run" to Mr. U.

As I said, many who saw the movie, did not see the series and there needed to be an arc for them, that was not dependent on previous actions in the series.

I would be more inclined to go back and look at Jayne's character from the pilot and first show or two, as indicative of where he is at, in the movie.

Of course, if you want to preserve continuity throughout, you could take the subtle indicator of him bolstering himself with drink, before going to "deal with" River. Perhaps he had been drinking all along and it got the better of him in that moment?

Just a thought or two.

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Saturday, January 6, 2007 7:57 AM

ROCKETJOCK

Jayne has a lyrical way of cutting through the bullshit sometimes; in the BDM it showed when he asked Mal, point blank, for the reason Simon and River were back on the boat, and, in the scene under discussion, where he points out Mal's long-held propensity for following lost causes well past the point of no return.

But more interesting to me is the fact that, after seeing what was on Miranda, Jayne was the one who spoke for the crew in accepting Mal's plan to take the battle to the enemy. It takes an awful lot to drive Jayne Cobb to the moral high ground, but it's nice to know there is a threshold point.

Heck, even at the end, when all seemed lost, Jayne was looking for comfort in the idea that Mal had completed the mission. For once, the big guy had found something just a little bigger than his own survival. Guess everybody has the capacity for growth.

"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn

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Saturday, January 6, 2007 8:17 AM

HELL'S KITTEN

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
After Mal visits Inara and they escape from The Operative, their options are being discussed by all on the ship. Then Jayne brings up the battle of Serenity, and asks how many, besides Mal and Zoe, walked out of that battle. What was he trying to imply ? Why would he even want to go there, when his beef w/ Mal instantly turned into a 2 on 1 situation, with Zoe on Mal's side ?

I took that scene as Jayne being furious with the fact that both he and Mal knew that Mal's plan was tantamount to suicide, for everyone on the ship. I thought Jayne wanted to make that point glaringly obvious to everyone on the crew, especially to those who follow Mal with a little more blind, naive faith (e.g. Kaylee). Bringing up the Battle of Serenity was the most efficient way of doing that - it brought the reality of the situation into very sharp, undiluted focus. Only once everyone really, truly understands that this plan would likely result in their deaths, would it be fair to ask them to go along with the plan.

But... maybe I'm giving Jayne too much credit? I am a simple girl.

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Sunday, January 7, 2007 9:14 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

Jayne ? Thinking ? Do those 2 things really go together ?

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Monday, January 8, 2007 1:02 AM

DOCTROID

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:

Actually, I'm not convinced he does have that inner voice. As I read Jayne, 95% of his brain (and time, and energy) is spent looking after Jayne, and Jayne's best interest--period. He doesn't seem to have a lot of time for altruism, or even loyalty

Jayne's more complex than that. We see in the series he has lots of loyalty -- but not an infinite amount. He was willing to sell out in "Ariel" -- he said it was because the money was too good, but I think it's clear there was more to it than that; he was getting to be afraid of what the Alliance was willing to put into recovering River. On the other hand, in "War Stories", he didn't even have to be talked into going into a bad situation to rescue Mal.

But as for that inner voice -- there I agree with Causal. If he has one at all, it's awfully quiet.

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Monday, January 8, 2007 1:09 AM

DOCTROID

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I guess it's not too far fetched to see that, in any sequal we'd get, Jayne would be the next one off the ship.

It's possible, but I think Jayne has way too much potential as a character. My feeling: it's not only Mal whose days of underestimating Jayne are coming to a middle. I think it's at least as likely that, in a sequel, we'd see Jayne doing something entirely unexpected and we'd realize he's not as uncomplicated as he sometimes seems.

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Monday, January 8, 2007 6:45 AM

DEEPGIRL187

When Jayne was talking about the "nice shuttle ride", I don't think his only thought was self-preservation. I think that when he stood up to Mal, he was worried about the other crew as well (minus Simon and River, who he's always perceived as a threat to himself and the others).

For those of you that have watched Buffy, Jayne is kind of the Cordelia of Firefly (pre-Angel). Yes, he's selfish and more than a bit dense, but he does have a heart (even if you don't see it that much). I don't believe that Joss would have made Jayne completely self-centered and uncaring if the show had continued. It would have been far more interesting to have him become more humane, and to see the resulting inner turmoil.

*************************************************

"I suppose if we couldn't laugh at things that don't make sense, we couldn't react to a lot of life."

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Monday, January 8, 2007 7:32 AM

IWEN

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I know the simple answer, is of course, to give depth and background to Mal and Zoe's dealings with the Alliance, and the war, but still....

Jayne looks out for himself first and foremost. His bringing up the war was well within the character of Jayne. Joss wrote it that way to bring out background from Mal and Zoe in the war, but he also did it because it is in Jayne's character to do so; pointing out to what was obvious, and that was that Mal was taking on more than he should worry himself with. Getting into trouble that in Jayne's eyes was not worth it...no money involved means no gain in Jayne's eyes. So to him, at this point in the movie, Mal was going out of his way for River and Simon for no damn good reason - and he was endagering EVERYBODY on the ship. Jayne pointed out that Mal was gonna get everybody killed if he kept on the current couse of action just like his platoon in Serenity Valley.

Iwen

www.myspace.com/biffbrannon

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